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How did Joe Douglas Miss so bad?


kevinc855

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11 hours ago, CanadienJetsFan said:


not only are we “resetting with Zack ” we are resetting at the quarterback position, organizationally speaking. That’s a huge set back.

What do you propose?We take him out back and shoot him? Lol

JD is not getting fired because of this pick because overall, the team is getting good. We’re actually talking playoff possibilities for this year! you gotta remember just how void of talent this roster was and has been for a long time.

Pointing the finger at JD doesn’t change the matter… It just makes you feel better by venting, yes, but the hardest thing to figure out as you know, is the quarterback position. And boy do we Jets fans know it!

yesterday was a sad day for the franchise AGAIN.

but just as quickly as things got ugly, things could improve.

 

I choose to be optimistic.

 

 

 

 

Thank hod for the rookie salary cap, can you imagine if the Jets had signed Zach Wilson to a Sam Bradford type rookie deal?

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On 11/23/2022 at 7:48 PM, Beerfish said:

1)  No one knows about QBs until they face real adversity in the pros.

2) His and Salehs sin was not drafting a project QB with a good arm that needed a lot of work, the sin was starting him when he was years from being ready and having no viable good backup QB or reliable vet to run the team for a few years.

With QBs coming into this league you have to forget their draft position and be very patient.  Many teams are not patient at all and others start out patient but succumb to the pressure to play the guy as soon as their vet has a bad game.

Starting Zach wasn't their sin. These prickish billionaire owners now days aren't giving these GMs and coaches time to mold high drafted QBs by giving them time to sit and learn. If it doesn't work out, the owner will blame GM and coach. But if it does work out, the owner will get the glory. 

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On 11/23/2022 at 9:10 PM, Vader said:

The miss was pretending ZW was a “Brett Favre-esque” finished product. ZW was and still is a big arm project with a high ceiling. He is raw af and needs serious coaching. He could still pan out… it ain’t over but he needs a reset and serious coaching 

Great Post!!! Wilson was always a raw talent that was going to take time.  I’m not saying he is still going to be the answer eventually but he was never going to light it up right away.  I don’t blame Douglas for picking him although I admit I was in favor of trading back IF we got a monster package.  The team is ahead of schedule which obviously has changed things as we saw with the QB change.  Honestly I have no idea what the future holds for QB for us.  As for Wilson I think he still has crazy upside and if he figures it out then he can have success even if it’s not in NY

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23 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

This is quite the opposite of the trend actually. 

Really?  Because for every Patrick Mahomes, Justin Herbert, Josh ALlen, and Joe Burrow, I see an awful lot of Mac Jones, Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Kenny Picket, Trevor Lawrence, Trey Lance, Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins, Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold.

Yes.  Joe Douglas made the pick.  We desperately needed a QB.  JD has the second overall pick and doesn't take a QB.  He is RUN out of town.

What were his options?  Trey Lance?  Nope.  Justin Fields?  Nope. Mac Jones?  Nope. Kyle Trask?  Kellen Mond?  Davis Mills?

JD might very well have tried to trade out.  But nobody was trading up in that draft for a QB, and nobody was moving up, for a kings ransom as everyone suggests could have happened, for Kyle Pitts or Jamarr Chase.

I get it dude.  It sucks we drafted a (literally) huge boom or bust pick for LT and it has turned out to be way more bust than boom, and our #2 QB is looking more Jamarcus Russell than Russell Wilson.   Such is life drafting in the NFL.  

Out of JD's first 10 picks he made as a GM, you have a so-so receiver with upside, a back-up CB, and a middle of the road punter.  Pretty sh*tty.

His following 16 picks are a lot better.  This team is pretty solid and is some LB and OL depth and perhaps a safety from being ready to compete regularly.  Just gotta find that signal caller.  And those things do NOT grow on trees.  

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On 11/23/2022 at 6:59 PM, SuicidalSince98 said:

Against one of the worst defenses in the nfl?

Yes. They are expected to put up numbers so if they don’t then you can argue it’s White and/or the OC. Otherwise they did their job. 
 

at a minimum of the Jets will put up 20 points but more like 24-31 with defense holding them to 10-14 points.

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Douglas swung for the home run hitter instead of the singles/double hitter like Mac Jones.

coming out of the draft everyone said Jones was the most NFL ready prospect but had a low ceiling. Implication being he will get you into the playoffs (as long as you have a good defense) and an outside fighting chance for a SB.

 

He was not the sexy pick. Perfect for the Patriots who have a well established system 

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On 11/23/2022 at 8:49 PM, kevinc855 said:

Its a false narrative of "who else you gona take" Maybe not Wilson? Or maybe you trade back and get the Vet like many of us wanted. We woulda gota a HAUL for number 2

It's really easy to say this sh*t in hindsight.  It's easy to be like "what did they see in this guy?!" - literally every mock that I remember had him as the #2 prospect, at the very least a top-5 prospect.  "Trade back and get a vet" = that's all well and good, but to act like there is no risk in that either is just not the case.  What happens if the vet is average for a year or two, then gone, meanwhile Wilson becomes the guy these "experts" thought he would be.  That would define the JD regime for the duration of their stay..."these are the guys who could have finally had their franchise QB but instead traded back and brought in Andy Dalton...."

 

They took their swing, they missed(as of now).  Usually missing on a pick of that magnitude cripples a franchise for a long time.  It hasn't here.  We're in a position where we are essentially a high-end QB away from being a SB contender.  They'll be tasked with finding the guy again next offseason, barring something miraculous happening to end this season, but I trust them based on the rest of the work they've done here.  

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3 hours ago, Cyberjet said:

Yes. They are expected to put up numbers so if they don’t then you can argue it’s White and/or the OC. Otherwise they did their job. 
 

at a minimum of the Jets will put up 20 points but more like 24-31 with defense holding them to 10-14 points.

Have you seen how many yards Fields has rushed for in the past five of six games? Have you seen how many points they’ve hung on other teams recently? I wouldn’t take the Bears so lightly on Sunday.

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On 11/23/2022 at 9:30 PM, RevisIsland610 said:

ZW has been bad but who in that draft class has actually done anything since being drafted? All of them have struggled. The last few games Fields has played better but he still has his issues. It's just not as good a QB draft class as people thought. 

It pains me to say it: Mac Jones.

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1 hour ago, 32EBoozer said:

Have you seen how many yards Fields has rushed for in the past five of six games? Have you seen how many points they’ve hung on other teams recently? I wouldn’t take the Bears so lightly on Sunday.

I’m not taking them lightly. I just have a lot of confidence in this defense. I will continue to do so until proven wrong. The Buffalo game is my evidence 

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On 11/25/2022 at 10:01 AM, CanadaSteve said:

Really?  Because for every Patrick Mahomes, Justin Herbert, Josh ALlen, and Joe Burrow, I see an awful lot of Mac Jones, Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Kenny Picket, Trevor Lawrence, Trey Lance, Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins, Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold.

Yes.  Joe Douglas made the pick.  We desperately needed a QB.  JD has the second overall pick and doesn't take a QB.  He is RUN out of town.

What were his options?  Trey Lance?  Nope.  Justin Fields?  Nope. Mac Jones?  Nope. Kyle Trask?  Kellen Mond?  Davis Mills?

JD might very well have tried to trade out.  But nobody was trading up in that draft for a QB, and nobody was moving up, for a kings ransom as everyone suggests could have happened, for Kyle Pitts or Jamarr Chase.

I get it dude.  It sucks we drafted a (literally) huge boom or bust pick for LT and it has turned out to be way more bust than boom, and our #2 QB is looking more Jamarcus Russell than Russell Wilson.   Such is life drafting in the NFL.  

Out of JD's first 10 picks he made as a GM, you have a so-so receiver with upside, a back-up CB, and a middle of the road punter.  Pretty sh*tty.

His following 16 picks are a lot better.  This team is pretty solid and is some LB and OL depth and perhaps a safety from being ready to compete regularly.  Just gotta find that signal caller.  And those things do NOT grow on trees.  

Agree with your post, but the 49ers traded quite a bit to move up for Lance one spot behind us 

IIRC though the Jets were all in on Wilson and weren’t interested in trading it. Hopefully he learns now in the top 10, sometimes it’s good to avoid the high risk players like Becton and Wilson.

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6 minutes ago, VJphillyfan said:

Douglas was clearly fooled by all that tape of Wilson playing really well against top competition in college

I remember Wilson’s bowl game against UCF when we were officially out on Lawrence and all the attention at 2 shifted to Wilson. He was literally untouched in that game, he might as well have been wearing shorts. Then I looked at his tape, same thing, no pressure. It was a huge nope for me.

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4 hours ago, GangGreened said:

Agree with your post, but the 49ers traded quite a bit to move up for Lance one spot behind us 

IIRC though the Jets were all in on Wilson and weren’t interested in trading it. Hopefully he learns now in the top 10, sometimes it’s good to avoid the high risk players like Becton and Wilson.

Kid has moxie.  Kid has a strong arm.  Kid can make things happen (street ball) when plays break down.  Those 'intangibles' everyone talks about.....he has them in spades.

But he might be a little too green yet.  Him sitting FOR AWHILE might be the best thing that ever happened to him.  Like, for another year even. 

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On 11/26/2022 at 10:34 AM, GangGreened said:

I remember Wilson’s bowl game against UCF when we were officially out on Lawrence and all the attention at 2 shifted to Wilson. He was literally untouched in that game, he might as well have been wearing shorts. Then I looked at his tape, same thing, no pressure. It was a huge nope for me.


one good year in college putting up all his stats against defenses that are almost Div II level

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Zach Wilson's path to the New York Jets: Inside the NFL's worst-kept secret

May 8, 2021

FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- The fascination started last October.

New York Jets general manager Joe Douglas received word from one of his scouts that there was a college junior out west he needed to watch. The 2021 NFL draft was six months away, but this was his typical starting point for in-depth tape study on potential prospects. So he punched up the video of the Oct. 16 BYU-Houston game, and it changed the course of the franchise.

Douglas picked this game because it contained no fewer than four prospects, most notably Houston defensive end Payton Turner, who would become the first-round pick of the New Orleans Saints. BYU's offense included three draft-eligible players with pro potential, including a slick-throwing quarterback named Zach Wilson.

In the interest of efficiency, Douglas prefers to evaluate games that include multiple prospects. One of his right-hand men, senior football adviser Phil Savage, calls them "scouter's delight" games. In the world of scouting, nothing beats mano a mano. In this case, it was Cougar a Cougar.

Douglas fell hard for Wilson, triggering a scouting and vetting process unlike any other. Because of restrictions due to the coronavirus pandemic, the Jets scouted only two of his games in person and relied on five hours of videoconference calls (the maximum allowed by the league) to test his football acumen and get acquainted with his personality and leadership traits. Ultimately, they chose Wilson No. 2 overall, signaling the start of a new era.

Because it was a strange year, the only time Douglas saw Wilson in person was his March 26 pro day on the BYU campus in Provo, Utah. Afterward, they spoke for two minutes, certainly nothing in depth. There was no combine in Indianapolis and there were no private workouts, so Douglas had to rely on his scouts to dig up intel from their sources and on his medical staff to cull information that ordinarily would have been easy to obtain.

More than ever, Douglas relied on his eyes, and they told him last October to keep watching.

"[Wilson had] an unbelievable junior year," Douglas said after the draft.

Wilson was brilliant in that game against Houston, completing 25 of 35 passes for 400 yards and four touchdowns. He delivered plenty of wow moments, combining physical skills, accuracy, a quick release and the ability to make off-platform throws. At 6-foot-2, he was able to change his arm angle to throw between and around defenders.

Sitting in his office, Douglas was blown away. He jotted notes on all the prospects in the game, but his eyes kept reverting to Wilson. Unlike Clemson's Trevor Lawrence and Ohio State's Justin Fields, Wilson wasn't a household name before he stepped on campus. He was a three-star recruit who wasn't good enough to get an offer from his dream school, Utah, where his father, Mike, played on the defensive line. From a national perspective, the Houston game was his breakout performance.

One of the plays that stood out to Douglas was an 18-yard touchdown pass late in the fourth quarter. Already ahead by three points, facing a third-and-15, Wilson read blitz and saw man-to-man coverage on the outside. Some quarterbacks would have played it conservatively with a safe pass, but he used his eyes to freeze the middle safety and fired a strike to Dax Milne in the back corner of the end zone to seal the victory.

Intrigued, Douglas stayed late and watched two more BYU games that night. The next time he saw assistant GM Rex Hogan, Douglas told him they needed to commence a deep dive into Wilson. Douglas wanted to know everything about him in case he declared for the draft.

TV scouting

At that point, the Jets weren't bent on drafting a quarterback. Even though Sam Darnold was struggling and the team was losing, the organization hadn't lost faith in the 23-year-old. But as they plummeted to 0-13, it became clear they would have a high draft pick. As fans and media clamored for Lawrence, the consensus top player and considered a generational talent, Douglas and his staff quietly investigated Wilson and the three other top quarterbacks, Fields, North Dakota State's Trey Lance and Alabama's Mac Jones.

In a normal year, Douglas probably would have traveled to Utah to check out Wilson. In 2018, former GM Mike Maccagnan flew to California on four consecutive weekends to scout Darnold in his junior year at USC, returning on red-eye flights so he could make it back for the Jets' game. Scouts see things in person they can't see on tape, such as how a player conducts himself on the sideline. This is particularly important for a quarterback. Does he interact with teammates? Is he a loner? Does he mope after a bad play? How does he lead?

The Jets scouted the win at Houston and the Dec. 5 contest at Coastal Carolina. The latter was BYU's biggest game of the season and only loss, 22-17. Douglas, whose Jets were 0-11 and seemingly careening toward the No. 1 pick, scouted the game on TV. He didn't see a stellar performance from Wilson, but he didn't view it as a negative given the circumstances. Because of the pandemic, the game hadn't been scheduled until that week, and BYU had to make a cross-country flight to face a nationally ranked team.

Douglas reverted to TV scouting again on Dec. 22, as he watched Wilson tear apart Central Florida in the Boca Raton Bowl -- 425 yards and three touchdown passes. By now, Douglas was down the rabbit hole, as he likes to say. He had watched tape from Wilson's freshman and sophomore years, including a road win at Tennessee, a home victory against USC and a flawless performance against Western Michigan in the 2018 Famous Idaho Potato Bowl -- 18-for-18, 317 yards and four touchdown passes.

Wilson attempted 837 passes in his college career. By the end of January, Douglas had studied every one of them.

Two staffers were heavily involved in the vetting process -- area scout Andrew Dollak and personnel executive Zach Truty. Unable to be on campus because of COVID-19 restrictions, they had to rely on their connections. They spoke to assistant coaches, trainers, the equipment manager, BYU boosters and friends of the Wilson family.

They got so far into his background that they compiled notes on his college recruiting. Wilson had given a verbal commitment to Boise State, but he flipped to BYU. The Jets wanted to know why. (BYU, closer to home, made a late push.) Fortunately, Dollak and Truty had backgrounds in recruiting. In fact, Dollak was familiar with the Western region. He grew up in Arizona and worked in the Arizona State recruiting department.

In scouting, there's no such thing as too much information.

Ready for Broadway?

To the surprise of many, the Jets actually won two of their final three games to finish 2-14, blowing their shot at the No. 1 overall pick -- i.e., Lawrence. While outsiders bemoaned their fate, team officials loved their position at No. 2. They knew it was a strong quarterback class.

In February, the Jets started their draft meetings. When they got around to Wilson, one of the topics that came up was how he would handle the New York spotlight. He grew up in Draper, Utah (population 49,000) and played college ball in Provo (116,000), a long way from Broadway. Hogan, the assistant GM, made a comment in the meeting that resonated.

Early in his career, Hogan spent a year as Utah's director of football operations under coach Urban Meyer. He got a feel for the local vibe and saw how BYU, which now has its own TV network, generated a large share of the media coverage. There's inherent pressure in being the BYU quarterback, he told the group, comparing it to Notre Dame. BYU has a reputation for quarterback excellence, having produced Steve Young, Jim McMahon and Ty Detmer, among others.

"It's huge there," said John Beck, a former BYU and NFL quarterback. "It's really a cool thing. It's a mantel you have to carry, a responsibility. There are super-high expectations. You feel all of those expectations all the time."

Wilson's personal coach, Beck, a renowned quarterback guru based in Huntington Beach, California, became a valuable resource for the Jets. He has known Jets offensive coordinator Mike LaFleur for many years, and they had several conversations during the run-up to the draft. Early in the process, the Jets asked questions about Wilson's size. He was 6-foot-2 and 214 pounds at his March 26 pro day. Prior to that, there were concerning rumors about his actual height.

"Everyone thought I was 6 feet," Wilson said, laughing. "I mean, that was a little harsh."

After that, LaFleur probed Beck on Wilson's physical and mental traits, digging deep into the X's and O's. How would you rate his arm strength on an 18-yard "dig" route? Which quarterback does he compare to on that route? In the beginning, the Jets were cagey about their interest in Wilson. As Beck noted, "This may sound funny, but it's kind of like 'The Dating Game.' Two people like each other, but they're not telling each other yet."

Soon, it became the worst-kept secret in the NFL. The clincher was Wilson's pro day.

Five months after seeing Wilson on tape for the first time, Douglas flew the 1,964 miles to Provo to watch him throw 70 passes before representatives from 31 teams. He was joined by LaFleur and coach Robert Saleh, who made an unusual request that day. He bumped into one of his former players, San Francisco 49ers linebacker and BYU alum Fred Warner. He asked Warner to hug Wilson. The idea, as first noted by Albert Breer of the MMQB, was to get a feel for the size of the quarterback's upper body. There was talk around the league about his narrow shoulders.

In the pre-pandemic world, Saleh could have done the hugging himself at the combine. Warner carried out the assignment -- what linebacker would pass on a chance to wrap his arms around a quarterback? -- and reported back to Saleh that Wilson's size reminded him of Kansas City Chiefs star Patrick Mahomes. The Jets are confident Wilson can fill out; his father was a 6-foot-3 and 283-pound defensive lineman at Utah, and his two younger brothers play linebacker.

If Douglas was smitten before the pro day, he was head over heels after watching Wilson finish the workout with an off-balance 50-yard dime that went viral on social media.

"Ultimately, that pro day really, really cemented it," Douglas said.

By then, the Jets were comfortable with Wilson's intangibles. In five videoconference calls, one hour each, they showed video clips and grilled him on specific plays from his career. For each play, they wanted to know the call, the protection, his progression, the coverage and the audible (if there was one). He spit back each answer with the speed of a "Jeopardy!" champion.

In an effort to stump him, they didn't show plays in sequential order. They bounced around his career, pulling up plays from his freshman season. They were amazed by his recall. On some plays, he knew the outcome before it started, simply based on down, distance and opponent. Wilson has ADHD (attention deficit hyperactivity disorder), like some others in his family, and it created challenges in the college classroom, but it has no effect on his ability to absorb football concepts, according to people close to him.

"His mental horsepower is through the roof," Saleh said.

The Jets didn't want to overwhelm Wilson with a dozen people on the videoconference calls, so they limited it to five or six, including LaFleur, passing-game specialist Greg Knapp and quarterbacks coach Rob Calabrese, each of whom wrote separate scouting reports on the top five quarterback prospects.

As the Jets' three offensive coaches ranked the draft's quarterbacks, the organization weighed offers for Darnold. They eventually traded him to the Carolina Panthers on April 5. There was some sentiment within the building to keep their 2018 first-round pick, but the prevailing thought was that Wilson was too good to pass up.

The final piece to the puzzle was obtaining medical information on Wilson's surgically repaired throwing shoulder. In a normal year, the Jets would have had imaging results of the shoulder at the combine in early March. Forced to scramble, the Jets' trainers and doctors got the intel by reaching out to the BYU medical staff and the doctor who performed the labrum surgery in 2019. They received the actual notes from the procedure, creating a comfort level that allowed them to move on from Darnold and lock into Wilson.

In the end, it came down to a football decision. With Lawrence heading to the Jacksonville Jaguars with the No. 1 pick, the Jets faced a choice among Wilson, Fields, Lance and Jones. If they had finished 0-16 instead of 2-14, it probably would've been Lawrence, but the pro-Wilson sentiment in the organization was strong. The coaches and personnel department were in lockstep, essentially resulting in a final decision four weeks before the draft. There was no 11th-hour wavering, no entertaining of trade offers. They were so committed to Wilson that people in his inner circle knew ahead of time he was New York-bound.

In their view, Wilson separated himself because of his pure passing ability; his quick eyes, hands and feet really popped on tape. They felt he was the cleanest fit in Kyle Shanahan's version of the West Coast offense, which uses play-action and boots. They also loved how he approached everything with bright eyes.

On April 29, at 8:33 p.m. ET, it became official: Wilson was the Jets' new quarterback, six months after he was just an image on Douglas' screen and a possibility in his mind.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31399489/zach-wilson-path-new-york-jets-nfl-worst-kept-secret?platform=amp

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On 11/26/2022 at 2:43 PM, CanadaSteve said:

Kid has moxie.  Kid has a strong arm.  Kid can make things happen (street ball) when plays break down.  Those 'intangibles' everyone talks about.....he has them in spades.

But he might be a little too green yet.  Him sitting FOR AWHILE might be the best thing that ever happened to him.  Like, for another year even. 

There’s been countless prospects that check all the boxes physically just like Zach. Then they face an NFL pass rush and display none of those traits.

He’s obviously green, sitting him might help, but I doubt it. I’m ready to call a spade a spade- he’s just a bust. The rookie clock Douglas spoke about it out the window at this point. I say keep him on the roster, see how he works, let him compete, but surely keep him away from being plan “A” unless he shows other worldly improvement.

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On 11/23/2022 at 9:06 PM, Sammybighead said:

First of all, JD didn't miss bad. JD, every coach and every scout missed bad. It was a group decision, they all independently evaluated all qbs, and all came to the same conclusion that zach was the guy. Everyone had a voice.

If you haven't read about the draft process the jets go through, Hughes has an article about, search it out. 

JD missed on just about the entire 2020 draft as well, that needs to be factored in also. It set us back if you consider we should have had at least 4 very good starters even if you buy into the theory that you miss on 50 percent of your picks, which I don't anyway. There are people on this board that could have done a better job and are on record as saying so. 

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On 11/23/2022 at 9:35 PM, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

You keep making this point, but no NFL does this any more - ever.  

Do you do everything you do because "everyone else does it"?

It may not be common, but it IS still possible.

On 11/23/2022 at 9:35 PM, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

You are citing a belief based on a practice that took place before the salary cap and rookie scale that is now completely obsolete.  

Yet is still 100% possible to do.

So rather than make an argument based on the Bangwagon Fallacy (in which the arguer tries to convince the audience to do or believe something because everyone else (supposedly) does.) as well as the Argumentum ad verecundiam informal fallacy, why not tell us why YOU think we shouldn't ever sit a drafted QB if that QB needs the time/work before being ready for primetime.

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1 hour ago, C Mart said:

Zach Wilson's path to the New York Jets: Inside the NFL's worst-kept secret

May 8, 2021

FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- The fascination started last October.

New York Jets general manager Joe Douglas received word from one of his scouts that there was a college junior out west he needed to watch. The 2021 NFL draft was six months away, but this was his typical starting point for in-depth tape study on potential prospects. So he punched up the video of the Oct. 16 BYU-Houston game, and it changed the course of the franchise.

Douglas picked this game because it contained no fewer than four prospects, most notably Houston defensive end Payton Turner, who would become the first-round pick of the New Orleans Saints. BYU's offense included three draft-eligible players with pro potential, including a slick-throwing quarterback named Zach Wilson.

In the interest of efficiency, Douglas prefers to evaluate games that include multiple prospects. One of his right-hand men, senior football adviser Phil Savage, calls them "scouter's delight" games. In the world of scouting, nothing beats mano a mano. In this case, it was Cougar a Cougar.

Douglas fell hard for Wilson, triggering a scouting and vetting process unlike any other. Because of restrictions due to the coronavirus pandemic, the Jets scouted only two of his games in person and relied on five hours of videoconference calls (the maximum allowed by the league) to test his football acumen and get acquainted with his personality and leadership traits. Ultimately, they chose Wilson No. 2 overall, signaling the start of a new era.

Because it was a strange year, the only time Douglas saw Wilson in person was his March 26 pro day on the BYU campus in Provo, Utah. Afterward, they spoke for two minutes, certainly nothing in depth. There was no combine in Indianapolis and there were no private workouts, so Douglas had to rely on his scouts to dig up intel from their sources and on his medical staff to cull information that ordinarily would have been easy to obtain.

More than ever, Douglas relied on his eyes, and they told him last October to keep watching.

"[Wilson had] an unbelievable junior year," Douglas said after the draft.

Wilson was brilliant in that game against Houston, completing 25 of 35 passes for 400 yards and four touchdowns. He delivered plenty of wow moments, combining physical skills, accuracy, a quick release and the ability to make off-platform throws. At 6-foot-2, he was able to change his arm angle to throw between and around defenders.

Sitting in his office, Douglas was blown away. He jotted notes on all the prospects in the game, but his eyes kept reverting to Wilson. Unlike Clemson's Trevor Lawrence and Ohio State's Justin Fields, Wilson wasn't a household name before he stepped on campus. He was a three-star recruit who wasn't good enough to get an offer from his dream school, Utah, where his father, Mike, played on the defensive line. From a national perspective, the Houston game was his breakout performance.

One of the plays that stood out to Douglas was an 18-yard touchdown pass late in the fourth quarter. Already ahead by three points, facing a third-and-15, Wilson read blitz and saw man-to-man coverage on the outside. Some quarterbacks would have played it conservatively with a safe pass, but he used his eyes to freeze the middle safety and fired a strike to Dax Milne in the back corner of the end zone to seal the victory.

Intrigued, Douglas stayed late and watched two more BYU games that night. The next time he saw assistant GM Rex Hogan, Douglas told him they needed to commence a deep dive into Wilson. Douglas wanted to know everything about him in case he declared for the draft.

TV scouting

At that point, the Jets weren't bent on drafting a quarterback. Even though Sam Darnold was struggling and the team was losing, the organization hadn't lost faith in the 23-year-old. But as they plummeted to 0-13, it became clear they would have a high draft pick. As fans and media clamored for Lawrence, the consensus top player and considered a generational talent, Douglas and his staff quietly investigated Wilson and the three other top quarterbacks, Fields, North Dakota State's Trey Lance and Alabama's Mac Jones.

In a normal year, Douglas probably would have traveled to Utah to check out Wilson. In 2018, former GM Mike Maccagnan flew to California on four consecutive weekends to scout Darnold in his junior year at USC, returning on red-eye flights so he could make it back for the Jets' game. Scouts see things in person they can't see on tape, such as how a player conducts himself on the sideline. This is particularly important for a quarterback. Does he interact with teammates? Is he a loner? Does he mope after a bad play? How does he lead?

The Jets scouted the win at Houston and the Dec. 5 contest at Coastal Carolina. The latter was BYU's biggest game of the season and only loss, 22-17. Douglas, whose Jets were 0-11 and seemingly careening toward the No. 1 pick, scouted the game on TV. He didn't see a stellar performance from Wilson, but he didn't view it as a negative given the circumstances. Because of the pandemic, the game hadn't been scheduled until that week, and BYU had to make a cross-country flight to face a nationally ranked team.

Douglas reverted to TV scouting again on Dec. 22, as he watched Wilson tear apart Central Florida in the Boca Raton Bowl -- 425 yards and three touchdown passes. By now, Douglas was down the rabbit hole, as he likes to say. He had watched tape from Wilson's freshman and sophomore years, including a road win at Tennessee, a home victory against USC and a flawless performance against Western Michigan in the 2018 Famous Idaho Potato Bowl -- 18-for-18, 317 yards and four touchdown passes.

Wilson attempted 837 passes in his college career. By the end of January, Douglas had studied every one of them.

Two staffers were heavily involved in the vetting process -- area scout Andrew Dollak and personnel executive Zach Truty. Unable to be on campus because of COVID-19 restrictions, they had to rely on their connections. They spoke to assistant coaches, trainers, the equipment manager, BYU boosters and friends of the Wilson family.

They got so far into his background that they compiled notes on his college recruiting. Wilson had given a verbal commitment to Boise State, but he flipped to BYU. The Jets wanted to know why. (BYU, closer to home, made a late push.) Fortunately, Dollak and Truty had backgrounds in recruiting. In fact, Dollak was familiar with the Western region. He grew up in Arizona and worked in the Arizona State recruiting department.

In scouting, there's no such thing as too much information.

Ready for Broadway?

To the surprise of many, the Jets actually won two of their final three games to finish 2-14, blowing their shot at the No. 1 overall pick -- i.e., Lawrence. While outsiders bemoaned their fate, team officials loved their position at No. 2. They knew it was a strong quarterback class.

In February, the Jets started their draft meetings. When they got around to Wilson, one of the topics that came up was how he would handle the New York spotlight. He grew up in Draper, Utah (population 49,000) and played college ball in Provo (116,000), a long way from Broadway. Hogan, the assistant GM, made a comment in the meeting that resonated.

Early in his career, Hogan spent a year as Utah's director of football operations under coach Urban Meyer. He got a feel for the local vibe and saw how BYU, which now has its own TV network, generated a large share of the media coverage. There's inherent pressure in being the BYU quarterback, he told the group, comparing it to Notre Dame. BYU has a reputation for quarterback excellence, having produced Steve Young, Jim McMahon and Ty Detmer, among others.

"It's huge there," said John Beck, a former BYU and NFL quarterback. "It's really a cool thing. It's a mantel you have to carry, a responsibility. There are super-high expectations. You feel all of those expectations all the time."

Wilson's personal coach, Beck, a renowned quarterback guru based in Huntington Beach, California, became a valuable resource for the Jets. He has known Jets offensive coordinator Mike LaFleur for many years, and they had several conversations during the run-up to the draft. Early in the process, the Jets asked questions about Wilson's size. He was 6-foot-2 and 214 pounds at his March 26 pro day. Prior to that, there were concerning rumors about his actual height.

"Everyone thought I was 6 feet," Wilson said, laughing. "I mean, that was a little harsh."

After that, LaFleur probed Beck on Wilson's physical and mental traits, digging deep into the X's and O's. How would you rate his arm strength on an 18-yard "dig" route? Which quarterback does he compare to on that route? In the beginning, the Jets were cagey about their interest in Wilson. As Beck noted, "This may sound funny, but it's kind of like 'The Dating Game.' Two people like each other, but they're not telling each other yet."

Soon, it became the worst-kept secret in the NFL. The clincher was Wilson's pro day.

Five months after seeing Wilson on tape for the first time, Douglas flew the 1,964 miles to Provo to watch him throw 70 passes before representatives from 31 teams. He was joined by LaFleur and coach Robert Saleh, who made an unusual request that day. He bumped into one of his former players, San Francisco 49ers linebacker and BYU alum Fred Warner. He asked Warner to hug Wilson. The idea, as first noted by Albert Breer of the MMQB, was to get a feel for the size of the quarterback's upper body. There was talk around the league about his narrow shoulders.

In the pre-pandemic world, Saleh could have done the hugging himself at the combine. Warner carried out the assignment -- what linebacker would pass on a chance to wrap his arms around a quarterback? -- and reported back to Saleh that Wilson's size reminded him of Kansas City Chiefs star Patrick Mahomes. The Jets are confident Wilson can fill out; his father was a 6-foot-3 and 283-pound defensive lineman at Utah, and his two younger brothers play linebacker.

If Douglas was smitten before the pro day, he was head over heels after watching Wilson finish the workout with an off-balance 50-yard dime that went viral on social media.

"Ultimately, that pro day really, really cemented it," Douglas said.

By then, the Jets were comfortable with Wilson's intangibles. In five videoconference calls, one hour each, they showed video clips and grilled him on specific plays from his career. For each play, they wanted to know the call, the protection, his progression, the coverage and the audible (if there was one). He spit back each answer with the speed of a "Jeopardy!" champion.

In an effort to stump him, they didn't show plays in sequential order. They bounced around his career, pulling up plays from his freshman season. They were amazed by his recall. On some plays, he knew the outcome before it started, simply based on down, distance and opponent. Wilson has ADHD (attention deficit hyperactivity disorder), like some others in his family, and it created challenges in the college classroom, but it has no effect on his ability to absorb football concepts, according to people close to him.

"His mental horsepower is through the roof," Saleh said.

The Jets didn't want to overwhelm Wilson with a dozen people on the videoconference calls, so they limited it to five or six, including LaFleur, passing-game specialist Greg Knapp and quarterbacks coach Rob Calabrese, each of whom wrote separate scouting reports on the top five quarterback prospects.

As the Jets' three offensive coaches ranked the draft's quarterbacks, the organization weighed offers for Darnold. They eventually traded him to the Carolina Panthers on April 5. There was some sentiment within the building to keep their 2018 first-round pick, but the prevailing thought was that Wilson was too good to pass up.

The final piece to the puzzle was obtaining medical information on Wilson's surgically repaired throwing shoulder. In a normal year, the Jets would have had imaging results of the shoulder at the combine in early March. Forced to scramble, the Jets' trainers and doctors got the intel by reaching out to the BYU medical staff and the doctor who performed the labrum surgery in 2019. They received the actual notes from the procedure, creating a comfort level that allowed them to move on from Darnold and lock into Wilson.

In the end, it came down to a football decision. With Lawrence heading to the Jacksonville Jaguars with the No. 1 pick, the Jets faced a choice among Wilson, Fields, Lance and Jones. If they had finished 0-16 instead of 2-14, it probably would've been Lawrence, but the pro-Wilson sentiment in the organization was strong. The coaches and personnel department were in lockstep, essentially resulting in a final decision four weeks before the draft. There was no 11th-hour wavering, no entertaining of trade offers. They were so committed to Wilson that people in his inner circle knew ahead of time he was New York-bound.

In their view, Wilson separated himself because of his pure passing ability; his quick eyes, hands and feet really popped on tape. They felt he was the cleanest fit in Kyle Shanahan's version of the West Coast offense, which uses play-action and boots. They also loved how he approached everything with bright eyes.

On April 29, at 8:33 p.m. ET, it became official: Wilson was the Jets' new quarterback, six months after he was just an image on Douglas' screen and a possibility in his mind.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31399489/zach-wilson-path-new-york-jets-nfl-worst-kept-secret?platform=amp

Looks like groupthink plus confirmation bias. They wanted to believe in Wilson. So much so they disregarded the red flags. Quick eyes and feet; really? Was this some other QB? 

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Zach Wilson will always be one of the more baffling evaluations I've ever seen in the draft.  His rise to "possibly actually QB1", was completely nonsensical.  Seriously, there was absolutely nothing he did in college that was going to translate in the NFL immediately.  It was clear he was a mess and needed to be completely broken down and rebuilt but I think the Jets/JD got caught up in the sensationalism that took place when the Mahomes comparisons started to stick.  So that said, I honestly dont know how bad they missed but I think they just evaluated him poorly and that led to completely mishandling him once he was in the building.  I truly believe that when you draft a QB, you have to a full proof individualized plan to develop said QB and clearly starting Zach Wilson week 1 was a bad plan.  Obviously I wanted Fields but I repeatedly said I had a plan for him and it included, him not seeing a single snap in year 1.  I would have had him sit the entire year and surrounded him w/ the best passing game coaching I could find.

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58 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Looks like groupthink plus confirmation bias. They wanted to believe in Wilson. So much so they disregarded the red flags. Quick eyes and feet; really? Was this some other QB? 

This is the tape to the Houston game. I thought this was a pretty overrated game for Wilson given the number of times his WRs bailed him out and the near picks he threw and I'm honestly concerned about Douglas's ability to scout QBs if this is the game that enamored him. 

 

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6 minutes ago, maury77 said:

This is the tape to the Houston game. I thought this was a pretty overrated game for Wilson given the number of times his WRs bailed him out and the near picks he threw and I'm honestly concerned about Douglas's ability to scout QBs if this is the game that enamored him. 

 

He was the one that wanted the Ravens to draft Flacco

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On 11/23/2022 at 8:43 PM, kevinc855 said:

Serious question? Zach seems to be a disaster in so many ways. 

1) Did he not pick up on his very unlikeable nature?

2) The casual footwork has always been an issue, did JD think it get coached out?

3) His lack of accountability. With more research, it seems this was an issue a bit at times at BYU as well. 

4) He never played anyone good. When they actually weren't playing a team like North Alabama and decent team like Utah he lost. Did JD not care? 

Seriously this guy collapsed in so many ways, off and on the field. 

How did JD mess this up so bad?

He wasn't the only one.  An awful lot of guys really wanted him.  The Niners would have traded away two drafts to get him.

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2 hours ago, C Mart said:

Zach Wilson's path to the New York Jets: Inside the NFL's worst-kept secret

May 8, 2021

FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- The fascination started last October.

New York Jets general manager Joe Douglas received word from one of his scouts that there was a college junior out west he needed to watch. The 2021 NFL draft was six months away, but this was his typical starting point for in-depth tape study on potential prospects. So he punched up the video of the Oct. 16 BYU-Houston game, and it changed the course of the franchise.

Douglas picked this game because it contained no fewer than four prospects, most notably Houston defensive end Payton Turner, who would become the first-round pick of the New Orleans Saints. BYU's offense included three draft-eligible players with pro potential, including a slick-throwing quarterback named Zach Wilson.

In the interest of efficiency, Douglas prefers to evaluate games that include multiple prospects. One of his right-hand men, senior football adviser Phil Savage, calls them "scouter's delight" games. In the world of scouting, nothing beats mano a mano. In this case, it was Cougar a Cougar.

Douglas fell hard for Wilson, triggering a scouting and vetting process unlike any other. Because of restrictions due to the coronavirus pandemic, the Jets scouted only two of his games in person and relied on five hours of videoconference calls (the maximum allowed by the league) to test his football acumen and get acquainted with his personality and leadership traits. Ultimately, they chose Wilson No. 2 overall, signaling the start of a new era.

Because it was a strange year, the only time Douglas saw Wilson in person was his March 26 pro day on the BYU campus in Provo, Utah. Afterward, they spoke for two minutes, certainly nothing in depth. There was no combine in Indianapolis and there were no private workouts, so Douglas had to rely on his scouts to dig up intel from their sources and on his medical staff to cull information that ordinarily would have been easy to obtain.

More than ever, Douglas relied on his eyes, and they told him last October to keep watching.

"[Wilson had] an unbelievable junior year," Douglas said after the draft.

Wilson was brilliant in that game against Houston, completing 25 of 35 passes for 400 yards and four touchdowns. He delivered plenty of wow moments, combining physical skills, accuracy, a quick release and the ability to make off-platform throws. At 6-foot-2, he was able to change his arm angle to throw between and around defenders.

Sitting in his office, Douglas was blown away. He jotted notes on all the prospects in the game, but his eyes kept reverting to Wilson. Unlike Clemson's Trevor Lawrence and Ohio State's Justin Fields, Wilson wasn't a household name before he stepped on campus. He was a three-star recruit who wasn't good enough to get an offer from his dream school, Utah, where his father, Mike, played on the defensive line. From a national perspective, the Houston game was his breakout performance.

One of the plays that stood out to Douglas was an 18-yard touchdown pass late in the fourth quarter. Already ahead by three points, facing a third-and-15, Wilson read blitz and saw man-to-man coverage on the outside. Some quarterbacks would have played it conservatively with a safe pass, but he used his eyes to freeze the middle safety and fired a strike to Dax Milne in the back corner of the end zone to seal the victory.

Intrigued, Douglas stayed late and watched two more BYU games that night. The next time he saw assistant GM Rex Hogan, Douglas told him they needed to commence a deep dive into Wilson. Douglas wanted to know everything about him in case he declared for the draft.

TV scouting

At that point, the Jets weren't bent on drafting a quarterback. Even though Sam Darnold was struggling and the team was losing, the organization hadn't lost faith in the 23-year-old. But as they plummeted to 0-13, it became clear they would have a high draft pick. As fans and media clamored for Lawrence, the consensus top player and considered a generational talent, Douglas and his staff quietly investigated Wilson and the three other top quarterbacks, Fields, North Dakota State's Trey Lance and Alabama's Mac Jones.

In a normal year, Douglas probably would have traveled to Utah to check out Wilson. In 2018, former GM Mike Maccagnan flew to California on four consecutive weekends to scout Darnold in his junior year at USC, returning on red-eye flights so he could make it back for the Jets' game. Scouts see things in person they can't see on tape, such as how a player conducts himself on the sideline. This is particularly important for a quarterback. Does he interact with teammates? Is he a loner? Does he mope after a bad play? How does he lead?

The Jets scouted the win at Houston and the Dec. 5 contest at Coastal Carolina. The latter was BYU's biggest game of the season and only loss, 22-17. Douglas, whose Jets were 0-11 and seemingly careening toward the No. 1 pick, scouted the game on TV. He didn't see a stellar performance from Wilson, but he didn't view it as a negative given the circumstances. Because of the pandemic, the game hadn't been scheduled until that week, and BYU had to make a cross-country flight to face a nationally ranked team.

Douglas reverted to TV scouting again on Dec. 22, as he watched Wilson tear apart Central Florida in the Boca Raton Bowl -- 425 yards and three touchdown passes. By now, Douglas was down the rabbit hole, as he likes to say. He had watched tape from Wilson's freshman and sophomore years, including a road win at Tennessee, a home victory against USC and a flawless performance against Western Michigan in the 2018 Famous Idaho Potato Bowl -- 18-for-18, 317 yards and four touchdown passes.

Wilson attempted 837 passes in his college career. By the end of January, Douglas had studied every one of them.

Two staffers were heavily involved in the vetting process -- area scout Andrew Dollak and personnel executive Zach Truty. Unable to be on campus because of COVID-19 restrictions, they had to rely on their connections. They spoke to assistant coaches, trainers, the equipment manager, BYU boosters and friends of the Wilson family.

They got so far into his background that they compiled notes on his college recruiting. Wilson had given a verbal commitment to Boise State, but he flipped to BYU. The Jets wanted to know why. (BYU, closer to home, made a late push.) Fortunately, Dollak and Truty had backgrounds in recruiting. In fact, Dollak was familiar with the Western region. He grew up in Arizona and worked in the Arizona State recruiting department.

In scouting, there's no such thing as too much information.

Ready for Broadway?

To the surprise of many, the Jets actually won two of their final three games to finish 2-14, blowing their shot at the No. 1 overall pick -- i.e., Lawrence. While outsiders bemoaned their fate, team officials loved their position at No. 2. They knew it was a strong quarterback class.

In February, the Jets started their draft meetings. When they got around to Wilson, one of the topics that came up was how he would handle the New York spotlight. He grew up in Draper, Utah (population 49,000) and played college ball in Provo (116,000), a long way from Broadway. Hogan, the assistant GM, made a comment in the meeting that resonated.

Early in his career, Hogan spent a year as Utah's director of football operations under coach Urban Meyer. He got a feel for the local vibe and saw how BYU, which now has its own TV network, generated a large share of the media coverage. There's inherent pressure in being the BYU quarterback, he told the group, comparing it to Notre Dame. BYU has a reputation for quarterback excellence, having produced Steve Young, Jim McMahon and Ty Detmer, among others.

"It's huge there," said John Beck, a former BYU and NFL quarterback. "It's really a cool thing. It's a mantel you have to carry, a responsibility. There are super-high expectations. You feel all of those expectations all the time."

Wilson's personal coach, Beck, a renowned quarterback guru based in Huntington Beach, California, became a valuable resource for the Jets. He has known Jets offensive coordinator Mike LaFleur for many years, and they had several conversations during the run-up to the draft. Early in the process, the Jets asked questions about Wilson's size. He was 6-foot-2 and 214 pounds at his March 26 pro day. Prior to that, there were concerning rumors about his actual height.

"Everyone thought I was 6 feet," Wilson said, laughing. "I mean, that was a little harsh."

After that, LaFleur probed Beck on Wilson's physical and mental traits, digging deep into the X's and O's. How would you rate his arm strength on an 18-yard "dig" route? Which quarterback does he compare to on that route? In the beginning, the Jets were cagey about their interest in Wilson. As Beck noted, "This may sound funny, but it's kind of like 'The Dating Game.' Two people like each other, but they're not telling each other yet."

Soon, it became the worst-kept secret in the NFL. The clincher was Wilson's pro day.

Five months after seeing Wilson on tape for the first time, Douglas flew the 1,964 miles to Provo to watch him throw 70 passes before representatives from 31 teams. He was joined by LaFleur and coach Robert Saleh, who made an unusual request that day. He bumped into one of his former players, San Francisco 49ers linebacker and BYU alum Fred Warner. He asked Warner to hug Wilson. The idea, as first noted by Albert Breer of the MMQB, was to get a feel for the size of the quarterback's upper body. There was talk around the league about his narrow shoulders.

In the pre-pandemic world, Saleh could have done the hugging himself at the combine. Warner carried out the assignment -- what linebacker would pass on a chance to wrap his arms around a quarterback? -- and reported back to Saleh that Wilson's size reminded him of Kansas City Chiefs star Patrick Mahomes. The Jets are confident Wilson can fill out; his father was a 6-foot-3 and 283-pound defensive lineman at Utah, and his two younger brothers play linebacker.

If Douglas was smitten before the pro day, he was head over heels after watching Wilson finish the workout with an off-balance 50-yard dime that went viral on social media.

"Ultimately, that pro day really, really cemented it," Douglas said.

By then, the Jets were comfortable with Wilson's intangibles. In five videoconference calls, one hour each, they showed video clips and grilled him on specific plays from his career. For each play, they wanted to know the call, the protection, his progression, the coverage and the audible (if there was one). He spit back each answer with the speed of a "Jeopardy!" champion.

In an effort to stump him, they didn't show plays in sequential order. They bounced around his career, pulling up plays from his freshman season. They were amazed by his recall. On some plays, he knew the outcome before it started, simply based on down, distance and opponent. Wilson has ADHD (attention deficit hyperactivity disorder), like some others in his family, and it created challenges in the college classroom, but it has no effect on his ability to absorb football concepts, according to people close to him.

"His mental horsepower is through the roof," Saleh said.

The Jets didn't want to overwhelm Wilson with a dozen people on the videoconference calls, so they limited it to five or six, including LaFleur, passing-game specialist Greg Knapp and quarterbacks coach Rob Calabrese, each of whom wrote separate scouting reports on the top five quarterback prospects.

As the Jets' three offensive coaches ranked the draft's quarterbacks, the organization weighed offers for Darnold. They eventually traded him to the Carolina Panthers on April 5. There was some sentiment within the building to keep their 2018 first-round pick, but the prevailing thought was that Wilson was too good to pass up.

The final piece to the puzzle was obtaining medical information on Wilson's surgically repaired throwing shoulder. In a normal year, the Jets would have had imaging results of the shoulder at the combine in early March. Forced to scramble, the Jets' trainers and doctors got the intel by reaching out to the BYU medical staff and the doctor who performed the labrum surgery in 2019. They received the actual notes from the procedure, creating a comfort level that allowed them to move on from Darnold and lock into Wilson.

In the end, it came down to a football decision. With Lawrence heading to the Jacksonville Jaguars with the No. 1 pick, the Jets faced a choice among Wilson, Fields, Lance and Jones. If they had finished 0-16 instead of 2-14, it probably would've been Lawrence, but the pro-Wilson sentiment in the organization was strong. The coaches and personnel department were in lockstep, essentially resulting in a final decision four weeks before the draft. There was no 11th-hour wavering, no entertaining of trade offers. They were so committed to Wilson that people in his inner circle knew ahead of time he was New York-bound.

In their view, Wilson separated himself because of his pure passing ability; his quick eyes, hands and feet really popped on tape. They felt he was the cleanest fit in Kyle Shanahan's version of the West Coast offense, which uses play-action and boots. They also loved how he approached everything with bright eyes.

On April 29, at 8:33 p.m. ET, it became official: Wilson was the Jets' new quarterback, six months after he was just an image on Douglas' screen and a possibility in his mind.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31399489/zach-wilson-path-new-york-jets-nfl-worst-kept-secret?platform=amp

This article reminders me of the article written about darnold after he was drafted by us.  It's always so much fun, until its not...

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Zach as a 1st round pick is a bust. But he can still develop into a starter. His story is not over.

The biggest issues with Zach are mechanics and handling pressure. You have to assume a player can develop proper mechanics. As far as pressure, college QBs hardly experience it. So that’s hard to scout. 

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I'll try and explain it like this:

I attended a private engineering school, 3 gals and about 100 guys. Gals were NOT attractive. At all. But after 2 months of seeing zero other woman, those 3 lassies started looking pretty goooood.

I think owners and GMs get QB-horny after not seeing a good lookin QB on their roster for years. Those NOT attractive college QBs start looking pretty sweet. So they draft one. Then their shiny new QB walks onto the practice field his first day, and the GM/Owner say "Oh no...what have we done????"

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