Jump to content

How did Joe Douglas Miss so bad?


kevinc855

Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, FootballLove said:

I'll try and explain it like this:

I attended a private engineering school, 3 gals and about 100 guys. Gals were NOT attractive. At all. But after 2 months of seeing zero other woman, those 3 lassies started looking pretty goooood.

I think owners and GMs get QB-horny after not seeing a good QB on their roster for years. Those NOT attractive college QBs start looking pretty sweet. So they draft one. Then their shiny new QB walks onto the practice field his first day, and the GM/Owner say "Oh no...what have we done????"

There is a country song in there somewhere - they all look good at closing time?

  • Upvote 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/23/2022 at 8:43 PM, kevinc855 said:

Serious question? Zach seems to be a disaster in so many ways. 

1) Did he not pick up on his very unlikeable nature?

2) The casual footwork has always been an issue, did JD think it get coached out?

3) His lack of accountability. With more research, it seems this was an issue a bit at times at BYU as well. 

4) He never played anyone good. When they actually weren't playing a team like North Alabama and decent team like Utah he lost. Did JD not care? 

Seriously this guy collapsed in so many ways, off and on the field. 

How did JD mess this up so bad?

Didn't Saleh coach the senior bowl squad.  They were said to have really scouted him.  I think almost every scouting report had Zach #2.  Guess they were starry eyed watching that deep throw across his body.  Guess they were so impressed with his arm, no-one noticed his footwork was lousy.  Have to believe Douglas figured footwork was a coachable thing.  Most 15 year old's can do it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/25/2022 at 8:27 AM, Cyberjet said:

Yes. They are expected to put up numbers so if they don’t then you can argue it’s White and/or the OC. Otherwise they did their job. 
 

at a minimum of the Jets will put up 20 points but more like 24-31 with defense holding them to 10-14 points.

Not tooting much own horn ….. just saying 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wilson looks identical on Jets' game film as he looked in college, only not as confident. 

Nothing he has done has been a surprise to me, which is why I put a third-round grade on him 53 days before the draft and labeled him as a "Surefire bust."

https://www.si.com/nfl/jets/news/new-york-jets-joe-douglas-responsible-quarterback-fiasco-after-drafting-zach-wilson

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, TBJ said:

Wilson looks identical on Jets' game film as he looked in college, only not as confident. 

Nothing he has done has been a surprise to me, which is why I put a third-round grade on him 53 days before the draft and labeled him as a "Surefire bust."

https://www.si.com/nfl/jets/news/new-york-jets-joe-douglas-responsible-quarterback-fiasco-after-drafting-zach-wilson

 

So you put a 3rd round grade on a "surefire bust"? 

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

People are allowed to have faith.

That said I think the sample size is large enough of god-awful play that suggesting Zach Wilson will ever be anything resembling a difference maker is a pipe dream.

It strikes me as highly unlikely he even carves out a role as a backup, TBH.

I thought it was being a Jets fan and wanting a 23 yr old QB in his 2nd yr player being afforded some time to mature & develop. For a change.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Matthew Stafford went #1 in 2009.  Similar arm talent to Zach Wilson.

On a very bad football team, he put up awful numbers in his first year; understandable, as the Lions were bad and he had some learning to do about how to QB at the NFL level.  At the end of his first year, plenty of critics predicted he wasn't going to make it as an NFL QB.

Got hurt early his second year.  Year 3, he put up gawdy numbers, and went on to become a near elite NFL QB, with some decision making limitations.  He had to go to a loaded team to win a super bowl.

The difference in path between Stafford and Wilson?  Stafford had the luxury of playing in a more fan-patient, 2nd tier market without a crosstown rival.    Nobody will accuse the Stafford-era Lions of being a great developmental environment, but there was less pressure.

Wilson has correctable problems.  It's now about how hard he wants to work to succeed.

Meantime, Mike White is the Jets QB until he proves he isn't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/28/2022 at 5:39 PM, C Mart said:

I thought it was being a Jets fan and wanting a 23 yr old QB in his 2nd yr player being afforded some time to mature & develop. For a change.  

Wilson has regressed significantly in his second season despite a good supporting cast.  You can do a Chris Simms and blame Joe Jets fan sitting at home on Sunday but the fact is he so far has looked really bad

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/28/2022 at 7:20 PM, rbstern said:

Matthew Stafford went #1 in 2009.  Similar arm talent to Zach Wilson.

On a very bad football team, he put up awful numbers in his first year; understandable, as the Lions were bad and he had some learning to do about how to QB at the NFL level.  At the end of his first year, plenty of critics predicted he wasn't going to make it as an NFL QB.

Got hurt early his second year.  Year 3, he put up gawdy numbers, and went on to become a near elite NFL QB, with some decision making limitations.  He had to go to a loaded team to win a super bowl.

The difference in path between Stafford and Wilson?  Stafford had the luxury of playing in a more fan-patient, 2nd tier market without a crosstown rival.    Nobody will accuse the Stafford-era Lions of being a great developmental environment, but there was less pressure.

Wilson has correctable problems.  It's now about how hard he wants to work to succeed.

Meantime, Mike White is the Jets QB until he proves he isn't.

Kind of a reach. Stafford and Wilson both had tough rookie years. 

Stafford only played 3 games year 2 and still had 6 TDs and 1 INT. 

Wilson played 7 games in his 2nd year so far and has had 5 INT and 4 TD's with no improvment in pass completion. 

 

Rough

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/28/2022 at 1:51 PM, Flashlite80 said:

Didn't Saleh coach the senior bowl squad.  They were said to have really scouted him.  I think almost every scouting report had Zach #2.  Guess they were starry eyed watching that deep throw across his body.  Guess they were so impressed with his arm, no-one noticed his footwork was lousy.  Have to believe Douglas figured footwork was a coachable thing.  Most 15 year old's can do it.

He and the Jets coached the 2022 Sr. Bowl not the 2021 

2021 Draft there was not a combine and no in person visits. Just pro days at colleges.  Jets conducted zoom meetings w/draft prospects.

 

See Page 5 for article "Zach Wilson's path to the New York Jets: Inside the NFL's worst-kept secret"

...

"Douglas fell hard for Wilson, triggering a scouting and vetting process unlike any other. Because of restrictions due to the coronavirus pandemic, the Jets scouted only two of his games in person and relied on five hours of videoconference calls (the maximum allowed by the league) to test his football acumen and get acquainted with his personality and leadership traits. Ultimately, they chose Wilson No. 2 overall, signaling the start of a new era.

Because it was a strange year, the only time Douglas saw Wilson in person was his March 26 pro day on the BYU campus in Provo, Utah. Afterward, they spoke for two minutes, certainly nothing in depth. There was no combine in Indianapolis and there were no private workouts, so Douglas had to rely on his scouts to dig up intel from their sources and on his medical staff to cull information that ordinarily would have been easy to obtain.

More than ever, Douglas relied on his eyes, and they told him last October to keep watching."

"[Wilson had] an unbelievable junior year," Douglas said after the draft.

 

ZW is 23 yrs old. JD hasn't missed, yet...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/23/2022 at 8:43 PM, kevinc855 said:

Serious question? Zach seems to be a disaster in so many ways. 

1) Did he not pick up on his very unlikeable nature?

2) The casual footwork has always been an issue, did JD think it get coached out?

3) His lack of accountability. With more research, it seems this was an issue a bit at times at BYU as well. 

4) He never played anyone good. When they actually weren't playing a team like North Alabama and decent team like Utah he lost. Did JD not care? 

Seriously this guy collapsed in so many ways, off and on the field. 

How did JD mess this up so bad?

Historically the Jets have missed good players at the QB position. Ever since they took Ken O'Brien over Dan Marino the Jets have swung and missed on QB's. Could have had Tom Brady but took the injury prone Chad Pennington. Not a bad pick but not great.

  • More Ugh 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/23/2022 at 8:57 PM, doitny said:

i cant wait till sunday where we will know if its the OC or Zach.

We saw in the Bears game that it is NOT the OC. Zach Wilson is a bust. I don't think he has enough maturity to actually think he has done anything wrong. In the game on the sideline he sat BY HIMSELF, did NOT congratulate or pat on the back Mike White and after the game ran from the media. Pitiful display of leadership.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Zach is under contract for two more years.   Next off season the Jets need to make a year 5 decision on Wilson.  Not looking too good.  

Mike White is an UFA this off season.

Jets need to make a decision on Becton's 5th year option this year.  I don't see them doing that.

White can be franchised for about $29mm, transitioned for about $27mm.  I think that is cheaper than Jimmy G.

The question is, in this offense, how much more is Jimmy G worth than Mike White, if anything.  

The Jets own Zach Wilson-they can off load his salary in a trade where someone agrees to assume it.

Zach Wilson needs to be developing his QB fundamentals 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, this off season.  I don't know what he did last off season.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, varjet said:

Zach is under contract for two more years.   Next off season the Jets need to make a year 5 decision on Wilson.  Not looking too good.  

Mike White is an UFA this off season.

Jets need to make a decision on Becton's 5th year option this year.  I don't see them doing that.

White can be franchised for about $29mm, transitioned for about $27mm.  I think that is cheaper than Jimmy G.

The question is, in this offense, how much more is Jimmy G worth than Mike White, if anything.  

The Jets own Zach Wilson-they can off load his salary in a trade where someone agrees to assume it.

Zach Wilson needs to be developing his QB fundamentals 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, this off season.  I don't know what he did last off season.  

Per OTC:

If traded prior to June 1st:

$11m dead cap & ($1.8m cap savings)

If traded post June 1st:

$5.7m dead cap & $3.8m cap savings

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-york-jets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Wilson has correctable problems.  It's now about how hard he wants to work to succeed.

I agree that he has correctable problems but I doubt his leadership capabilities. He should have been supportive of Mike White but didn't seem to be as he sat by himself with his hoodie on and ran from the media afterward. I doubt he can reestablish himself in the Jets locker room.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, varjet said:

Zach Wilson needs to be developing his QB fundamentals 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, this off season.  I don't know what he did last off season.  

Correcting his physical problems i.e. footwork and accuracy are fixable. The thing I see from Wilson is a lack of leadership and I don't think he can win back the locker room. I see him as arrogant and lacking accountability.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/28/2022 at 4:37 PM, Claymation said:

The Jets have to get to 10 wins to have a shot at the playoffs. This was the easiest game left. Losing wasn't an option. Also, this defense is really good. 

I think they beat Detroit, Jacksonville and Seattle. That gives them 10 wins. I think they may upset Minnesota as well. Bad pass defense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/23/2022 at 8:43 PM, kevinc855 said:

Serious question? Zach seems to be a disaster in so many ways. 

1) Did he not pick up on his very unlikeable nature?

2) The casual footwork has always been an issue, did JD think it get coached out?

3) His lack of accountability. With more research, it seems this was an issue a bit at times at BYU as well. 

4) He never played anyone good. When they actually weren't playing a team like North Alabama and decent team like Utah he lost. Did JD not care? 

Seriously this guy collapsed in so many ways, off and on the field. 

How did JD mess this up so bad?

You gave yourself "Post of the Week"? LMFAO

  • Sympathy 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/23/2022 at 10:29 PM, kevinc855 said:

Maybe he will grow up but my question is How did we miss this 

The whole "he needs to grow up" thing, IMO, is over exaggerated. 

He got caught up in a few weeks of bad media/fans hating him/topped with a pair of his worst games playing like total sh*t and it bubbled up. He's a competitor, it happens. 

He's not a total a-hole. Not like he walked in there Day 1 thinking he's the best thing ever and completely unlikeable. 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

Historically the Jets have missed good players at the QB position. Ever since they took Ken O'Brien over Dan Marino the Jets have swung and missed on QB's. Could have had Tom Brady but took the injury prone Chad Pennington. Not a bad pick but not great.

 

lol jesus.  Yeah I remember watching that draft, screaming at my TV..."Pennington?!?!  But Brady is on the board!  Surefire HOFer".  We all knew it, at the time...

 

C'mon man.  No one gave two sh*ts about Tom Brady back in that draft, otherwise he wouldn't have been a 6th round pick.  It would be like whining about taking Darnold over Lamar Jackson.  Some things seem really obvious in hindsight but they just were not realistic options at the time, unless you are some kind of scouting genius.  I don't even remember people saying Allen > Darnold back then.  

 

The reality is, this sh*t is the easiest to criticize but no one really knows which QBs will pan out and which won't, outside of like the rare Peyton Manning/Andrew Luck drafts.  Even then, Trevor Lawrence was talked about in that tier and even he has had his fair share of struggles. 

 

I'd just consider ourselves lucky that we have a guy on the team who looks like he has the potential to be a franchise QB.  Whether it's the 2nd overall pick or the 5th rounder, does it really matter? 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, August said:

There were certain factors why Zach rose in the draft. He really was a day 3 guy at most

The forensics done on Wilson getting rated as a generational qb prospect are going to be fascinating.  How could so many people who claim to know so much about football be so obviously stupid?

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Zachtomims47 said:

The whole "he needs to grow up" thing, IMO, is over exaggerated. 

He got caught up in a few weeks of bad media/fans hating him/topped with a pair of his worst games playing like total sh*t and it bubbled up. He's a competitor, it happens. 

He's not a total a-hole. Not like he walked in there Day 1 thinking he's the best thing ever and completely unlikeable. 

How do you actually know any of this?

We can all speculate, but that's all it is, speculation.  None of us know for sure.  

Definitive statements like yours are just as unjustified as those in the opposite direction.

Only the people in the locker room know.  We can only speculate based on what they say and how they act.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...