This is a pause

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

5 minutes ago, slats said:

I see the same things. I’m concerned that he’s just not mentally fit for the position. Between the injuries last year and this one, this is the third time he’s sitting. He looked good at times, but has clearly regressed below the mean at this stage. 
 
Like I said, I expect White to be a spark and maybe a little more, but not the answer. And they have $35M guaranteed tied into Zach. I take Saleh at his word when he says he wants him back in the lineup before the season is over. I think the only way it doesn’t happen is if White starts off hot and stays that way. 

I don't think Wilson can be "sparked" into being a better QB.  IMO, he was either going to play his way through this or not. He was heading towards not, but the post-game attitude sped up the timetable.  

I did not see an attitude problem with him until this week.  From all appearances, he was hard-working, smart, and dedicated and had been saying all the right things.  It just never translated to his game performance except for a few flashed (the 4th quarter vs Pittsburgh).  Most young QBs take a jump in year 2.  He had to move into the average QB range this season. He hasn't.  In today's NFL and with this team having matured overnight, the Jets don't have time to continue the Wilson experiment. When he gave his post game presser, he lost the locker room.  I think he's done here.

I think they have to move on. 

[Jet2020]

We need to write off Mike White. One way or another. If he’s good enough, keep him. Otherwise move on to Streveler as your project

[derp]

I agree with others the benching is more cumulative than disciplinary. The postgame comments were bad, but I think any disciplinary component is partially due to him being lackadaisical on the field. Multiple throw aways this year that didn’t make it out of bounds one of which got picked, poor footwork leading to inaccuracy and turnovers. Add in not pulling the trigger on early reads last game and there’s just not anything to work with and we saw the results.

It’s immature and not the behavior of someone who takes his profession seriously. Yeah Mahomes and Rodgers do some unconventional stuff mechanically - they’ve also won Super Bowls and MVP’s that way. If you’re struggling to complete 60% of your passes, maybe set your ******* feet before you throw a screen so you can complete it.

I also have seen folks ragging on the CS for his footwork. He’s a professional athlete. If he takes his craft seriously he’ll put in the work to fix his footwork on his own time in the offseason. I’m sure they can help but to me mechanical issues are more on the individual than the CS.

[slimjasi]

I think Saleh is tentatively planning on bringing him back after some time off, but I think Mike white has a great chance to keep him on the bench for the rest of the season and beyond. 

[Maynard13]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Deactivating Zach, rather than just benching him, is a disciplinary move. His presser was a disaster, and while Saleh tried to sugarcoat that a little bit, it’s obvious that it played a part in it. I do think that if Zach took some responsibility last Sunday that he would probably be starting this one - albeit with a quick hook waiting, his play was pitiful, after all. 
 
But I also believe Saleh when he says he wants to get Zach back in the starting lineup this year. I found it interesting, too, that he mentioned being in touch with Seattle, specifically regarding Geno. Did he pick up a few pointers for dealing with entitled, immature yet talented QBs? It’s clear that they’ve shifted from coddling him to giving him some tough love. He ran the scout team yesterday. That’s some serious humbling coming down upon his head. 

For now, it’s Mike White’s job to lose, though. I expect them to ride the hot hand and, if Zach gets Wally Pipped, so be it. But they need to figure out if it’s going to be White, Wilson, or none of the above before this season is over. This team is too good, too soon to screw around at QB. Going into next year with the two of them and, say, a Gardiner Minshew would just be more wheel-spinning, imho. My gut feeling is that with seven games left, Zach will make his way back on the field, as much as the fan base may be done with him. They just have too much invested in him. In the meantime, though, I will be rooting for Mike White to make that move as difficult as possible. 

Thats a grown up, logical, reasonable take as opposed to @T0mShane's man crush on Mike the Great Hype White.  

[Fantasy Island]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Deactivating Zach, rather than just benching him, is a disciplinary move. His presser was a disaster, and while Saleh tried to sugarcoat that a little bit, it’s obvious that it played a part in it. I do think that if Zach took some responsibility last Sunday that he would probably be starting this one - albeit with a quick hook waiting, his play was pitiful, after all. 
 
But I also believe Saleh when he says he wants to get Zach back in the starting lineup this year. I found it interesting, too, that he mentioned being in touch with Seattle, specifically regarding Geno. Did he pick up a few pointers for dealing with entitled, immature yet talented QBs? It’s clear that they’ve shifted from coddling him to giving him some tough love. He ran the scout team yesterday. That’s some serious humbling coming down upon his head. 

For now, it’s Mike White’s job to lose, though. I expect them to ride the hot hand and, if Zach gets Wally Pipped, so be it. But they need to figure out if it’s going to be White, Wilson, or none of the above before this season is over. This team is too good, too soon to screw around at QB. Going into next year with the two of them and, say, a Gardiner Minshew would just be more wheel-spinning, imho. My gut feeling is that with seven games left, Zach will make his way back on the field, as much as the fan base may be done with him. They just have too much invested in him. In the meantime, though, I will be rooting for Mike White to make that move as difficult as possible. 

This is a pause:

Zach is a lost cause.  Back up is the best he will ever be, and his attitude and ego may not even allow that possibility.

 

 

[UnknownJetFan]

1 hour ago, GangGreened said:

At this point, I don’t know if sitting will really “fix” him. He definitely needs the mental reset though.

The time to sit him was last year, and then insert him into the lineup when he’s ready. But we went full Darnold, right after dumping Darnold.

Zak needs to fix the footwork problem that is part mechanics and part mental. He can’t keep thinks he is Mahomes where you make the crazy throws contorting your body with side arm shots cross your body. That guy is the only one who I have seen successfully do that over time with the exception of some of the from Favre in his prime. There are some mental aspects Zak has done well but the footwork, running backwards, and leaving the pocket to soon are areas he has to get right and down pat or he will never consistently get through drives, complete high percentage passes i.e passes in the flat and such. I see not enough talk from the media on all of this since they just focus on this said in interviews that are not politically correct. Yes, you should fall on the sword as a leader, but we all know anyone even in sports doing that don’t really mean it they just say it cause they know they have to. I have worked deeply in corporate America most of my life and to this point have not seen a higher up ever take responsibility or accountability for anything even after they get fired, but everyone expects different in sports for men in there youth that are in there 20’s meanwhile we do not get that maturity in jobs from people in there 50’s.

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

1 hour ago, Larz said:

there is no way this doesn’t get jetsy 

[UnknownJetFan]

56 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

There's nothing your going to see from in the 4-5 games he may play that's going to tell us anything new about Zach. These guys are saying all the positive things because I do believe they expect to keep Zach in 2023 and they probably don't have all that much faith in White/Flacco but they're also realistic enough to know you can't really bank on Zach fixing his issues - These kind of "resets" just don't really happen and the fact that they have to point Geno - who took 8 years and 4 teams to get on track - tells you how salvageable these type of situations generally are. 

Going into next season with Zach as the starter is screwing around at QB. There's nothing he could show in whatever games he plays to inspire confidence that he's the guy - In fact the absolute worst case scenario for me was always that he'd have a similar end to last season where people would point to mythical improvement as a means to bring him back as a #1. 

Zach at best cannot be anything more than plan B for next year - If he pieces things together in camp and outplays everyone then maybe you can see what's there but given how unlikely that is you have to proceed with someone else in mind as the starter. All avenues should be being explored - Draft, FA's, Trades - Whatever we go with will be one of Douglas' defining moves imo. 

See the key is now is with a dominant D Jets can’t necessarily count on that always being the case though you hope you can keep plugging in defenders and maintaining that. On O even now the running game is helpful and perhaps into next year even more so with Hall back. And we know we have juggled the oline and it still is serviceable as well as having many receiving threats. So, my point if I ever get to it is we need some QB that can just run the point for this team like Brunson does for the Knicks where he doesn’t even have the talent around him and still gets that team to play well.

[bitonti]

55 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

There is no way Garappolo comes to the Jets to compete with Wilson for the starting job.  If he doesn't sign with SF again long-term, he will have his pick of numerous offers (Indy, Las Vegas, Washington, NYG, Atlanta, NO, Seattle).  He's going to go somewhere where he can sign a long term deal as the clear starting QB. He is not going to go somewhere where he gets "Lanced" again.  The Jets will be an option if and only if Wilson is out of the picture.

Disclaimer: beggars can't be choosers 

Disclaimer: I'm a huge fan of this dude and the Jets should have drafted him years ago 

Buy Jimmy G's arm sucks. He can game manage but his games inevitably become a Chad Pennington situation. Teams sit on the slot and short stuff and beg him to go deep or outside. 

That's why they drafted trey Lance. Jimmy is just good enough to lose a super bowl 

[Green Ghost]

2 hours ago, slats said:

Deactivating Zach, rather than just benching him, is a disciplinary move. His presser was a disaster, and while Saleh tried to sugarcoat that a little bit, it’s obvious that it played a part in it. I do think that if Zach took some responsibility last Sunday that he would probably be starting this one - albeit with a quick hook waiting, his play was pitiful, after all. 
 
But I also believe Saleh when he says he wants to get Zach back in the starting lineup this year. I found it interesting, too, that he mentioned being in touch with Seattle, specifically regarding Geno. Did he pick up a few pointers for dealing with entitled, immature yet talented QBs? It’s clear that they’ve shifted from coddling him to giving him some tough love. He ran the scout team yesterday. That’s some serious humbling coming down upon his head. 

For now, it’s Mike White’s job to lose, though. I expect them to ride the hot hand and, if Zach gets Wally Pipped, so be it. But they need to figure out if it’s going to be White, Wilson, or none of the above before this season is over. This team is too good, too soon to screw around at QB. Going into next year with the two of them and, say, a Gardiner Minshew would just be more wheel-spinning, imho. My gut feeling is that with seven games left, Zach will make his way back on the field, as much as the fan base may be done with him. They just have too much invested in him. In the meantime, though, I will be rooting for Mike White to make that move as difficult as possible. 

This all sounds very nice, but it’s pie in the sky. We’re not finding out Jack about Wilson and whether or not he’s the guy between now and the end of the season. What’s wrong with him isn’t going to be overhauled and repaired in a few weeks.

If the Jets believe he can turn it around, then next season will be one where he is attempting to implement whatever fundamental changes they’ve been able to drill into his head over the next 8 months.

As for Mike White? He has a big opportunity here. The Jets are trusting him with the keys to what they believe is a playoff team. He’s worked hard, kept his mouth shut and done all the work asked of him. There’s not one of us who wouldn’t like to see him succeed. ( well maybe that suicidal guy, but whatever…)

[Mo Lew]

Go get Arod in the off-season. Let Zach sit behind him for the next 2 years. Boom done. 

[slats]

19 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

What’s wrong with him isn’t going to be overhauled and repaired in a few weeks.

If the Jets believe he can turn it around, then next season will be one where he is attempting to implement whatever fundamental changes they’ve been able to drill into his head over the next 8 months.

I expect him to get on the field to see if he can show them enough that they want to continue working with him. The team got good faster than expected, they can’t spend another year on a project. They’d have to have some confidence that he can turn it around as quickly as the defense has. Me? I’d be quietly letting Justin Herbert’s people know that if he’s interested in demanding a trade, I know a team willing to make a serious offer. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

He never should have been starting from day 1, he was nowhere near ready. All it did was create impatience with the fan base who already disliked him becasue half the fan base wanted someone else. On top of it, it destroyed his confidence. Whether or not ZW could have ever been a decent QB, who knows, but he is done here. 

[GreenReaper]

ZW...may be done.  I never expected Zach's play to get at this level of bad.   

His development is lagging behind the many other 22-24 year olds on their rookie contracts.  So his play is holding the team back.  His poor footwork didn't hold him back at BYU.  But you can't get away playing like that against NFL defenses.  Still doesn't read-process fast enough to make the timing throws necessary in a WCO.  Is inconsistent with his accuracy and velocity because of poor footwork too.  None of this adds up to FQB NYJ.  

Not easy to rid bad technique habits that's accumulated over years of playing that way.  I don't think Zach is guaranteed to start at QB next year.  Or be on the team either. 

IMO...ZW has lost the locker-room.  Maybe his job too.

Again...very disappointed.  

Hope I'm wrong and he bounces back.  But I doubt it.

  

[greenwave81]

2 hours ago, Lith said:

My ideal QB room heading into next season is Wilson, solid vet (Minshew, Jimmy G, Heinecke, Geno) and a day 2/day 3 rookie (Hendon Hooker).   Let Zach and the vet compete in camp and bring the rookie along slowly.  I also think which vet we sign could be an indication of what our staff truly thinks of Zach.  They go all in for a guy like Jimmy G at $25M+ he is gonna be the starter and Zach either gets traded or backs up.

Mike White can change that all up depending on what he does over the next few weeks.  

To everyone clamoring for Minshew…why not give the Strev a chance?  Streveler is Minshew before Minshew became Minshew…an unheard of guy that needs a chance to play. 

[Lith]

6 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

To everyone clamoring for Minshew…why not give the Strev a chance?  Streveler is Minshew before Minshew became Minshew…an unheard of guy that needs a chance to play. 

But are you content going into next season where the only options are Streveler, White and Wilson, because I sure as hell am not.  We need to add at the very least a league average type veteran.  If Streveler finds a way to win the job, fine.  But until then, he is just another Brett Ratliff or Bryce Petty who put up big numbers in pre-season against non-NFL players.

I think more likely we build a package for Streveler -- similar to the way the Saints use Taysom Hill.

[football guy]

A few things: 

1) I wouldn’t call it disciplinary, but if Zach didn’t snap at the reporters this probably doesn’t happen. Mike LaFleur wanted to give Mike White an opportunity because he feels those 3-to-5 easy completions per game will be the difference, but Saleh shut that down at halftime. LaFleur and Wilson have a solid relationship but things have started to become testy because Wilson felt like he’s been doing everything he’s being asked and LaFleur/Calabrese have not been up front about their dissatisfaction with the breakdown in footwork (likely due winning being a good deodorant coupled with the ramifications such an admission would take + Saleh’s emphasis on positive reinforcement). LaFleur is big on fundamentals but more so how it impacts plays than actually coaching/hammering them and Rob Calabrese is basically being groomed into a “passing game coordinator” - they do not have the time to work on footwork. They had hoped it would get corrected over the bye week—which is totally unrealistic. Saleh is big with mental health and when he saw how Zach handled post-game, the reaction inside/outside the building, and his perception of Zach’s mindset in their conversation on Monday morning are all factors that led to him wanting the brutally honest answers from his staff. I didn’t legitimately believe he would pull the trigger, but he bought into the reset plan and Douglas/Woody were OK with it, green lighting the change. 

2) outside of team drills, Zach is working closely with offensive assistant Billy VandeMerkt on his footwork, with overtime work with MLF and Calabrese after practice. He’ll likely have this regiment for 2 weeks, return as backup against the Bills, and possibly back in the starting lineup by Detroit depending how things go (if they’re outperforming expectations there will not be a shakeup). Zach is expected to also work on his own with John Beck, but he won’t be hired by the team. 

3) let’s just make this clear right now: acquiring Jimmy Garoppolo/Derek Carr for $40+ million per season next offseason is a pipe dream. As I’ve maintained: this administration is unorthodox and they truly do not care about stats or historical trends. I think they realize their failings in Zach’s development, but fans who think they will outright give up on him for someone else are mistaken. They believe in his ability and are not going to be awarded the easy way out absent a Super Bowl run, which would validate the coach’s formula, the ability this current team has, and give the coaching staff more credibility to decide whether to add a ready QB who will help compete for multiple championships without paying the price for the Zach Wilson failure. Most likely: they will be forced to exhaust all options to get the most out of Wilson… that could be anything from a change in QB coach, coordinator, etc. 

4) The most likely result to come out of this: Mike White/Joe Flacco play for at least 2 weeks. Winning keeps them in, losing will not. Zach likely returns against Detroit. It’s impossible to know how he performs to close out the season, but unless he were to show further regression the likely result will be Case Keenum… Gardner Minshew… Geno Smith… Sam Darnold as competition with Zach next offseason, with Mike White a possibility to return as a stable QB2/3. Aka likely a disaster. 

 

Everyone is 20-20 in hindsight, but I can’t help but be disgusted with how this has gone. I know that fans on here will say “I was right”, but it truly is not that simple. Zach has all the tools, and while his play has not been great and he deserves blame for that, the fact that it has came to this is massive endictment on the offensive coaches. The lack of veteran leadership on the offensive coaching staff who can hammer the fundamentals (specifically in the QB and WR rooms) is why it came to this, because we all know footwork and timing has been an issue for the QBs/WRs for 2 years now yet no one had the balls (or ability) to step up and say “this kid needs a little more time.” It did improve over the offseason, but after the injury the coaching staff still had the opportunity to be brutally honest and hold him out additional time to make sure it was perfect. That did not happen. Instead, they they went 5-1 with him at QB despite the concerns, and now we’re here. 

It’s a QB-driven league and since I’ve been a diehard I’ve watched the Jets draft and fail at developing 5 talented QBs across 8 HC/GM combinations. No single administration should be blamed for the failures of the former, but the fact that they finally landed a good GM + HC, a talented QB and loaded the team with talent, yet still botch the development of said QB is just awful. The solution was simple: simplify the game plan for the struggling QB/WRs and hammer the details. Instead? Keep the offense as-is, bench the QB to work on his footwork, and “hope” that works. This organization simply does not understand how to ignore the noise, stay the course, and develop a QB in this market. 

[Maynard13]

29 minutes ago, slats said:

I expect him to get on the field to see if he can show them enough that they want to continue working with him. The team got good faster than expected, they can’t spend another year on a project. They’d have to have some confidence that he can turn it around as quickly as the defense has. Me? I’d be quietly letting Justin Herbert’s people know that if he’s interested in demanding a trade, I know a team willing to make a serious offer. 

@T0mShane would not be taking this quietly.

LA GM: Mike White and your #1 for Justin Herbert.

@T0mShaneWHAT! WHAT! WHAT!  Do I get to keep his balls and Hall of fame jersey? 

[doitny]

13 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

To everyone clamoring for Minshew…why not give the Strev a chance?  Streveler is Minshew before Minshew became Minshew…an unheard of guy that needs a chance to play. 

cant go into next year with a QB who never played a NFL game. and no he wont play this year.

[JetPotato]

3 hours ago, Lith said:

My ideal QB room heading into next season is Wilson, solid vet (Minshew, Jimmy G, Heinecke, Geno) and a day 2/day 3 rookie (Hendon Hooker).   Let Zach and the vet compete in camp and bring the rookie along slowly.  I also think which vet we sign could be an indication of what our staff truly thinks of Zach.  They go all in for a guy like Jimmy G at $25M+ he is gonna be the starter and Zach either gets traded or backs up.

Mike White can change that all up depending on what he does over the next few weeks.  

Agree with most of this, but I believe if Zach doesn't win the job outright next summer from the vet, he has to be the #3. There's way too much development needed there for him to see any time in games unless he makes a miraculous turnaround that positions him as better than say, Jimmy G. Based on his lack of development thus far (scratch that... his regression), I don't see that as at all likely. He needs special attention and there are no shortcuts in turning a project into a worthwhile NFL QB.

[greenwave81]

12 minutes ago, Lith said:

But are you content going into next season where the only options are Streveler, White and Wilson, because I sure as hell am not.  We need to add at the very least a league average type veteran.  If Streveler finds a way to win the job, fine.  But until then, he is just another Brett Ratliff or Bryce Petty who put up big numbers in pre-season against non-NFL players.

I think more likely we build a package for Streveler -- similar to the way the Saints use Taysom Hill.

Not at all…but I’d like to see if he’s even a potential keeper during this season. I mean, if you’ll never let him play QB, and don’t design a play package around him even in a period of QB turmoil, why even have him here?

[Ron Rico]

I just think Zach is a guy who just doesn't listen. 

[Lith]

1 minute ago, greenwave81 said:

Not at all…but I’d like to see if he’s even a potential keeper during this season. I mean, if you’ll never let him play QB, and don’t design a play package around him even in a period of QB turmoil, why even have him here?

Like I said, I would not mind seeing some sort of package for him. But the coaches see him everyday in practice.  Along with Mike White and Joe Flacco.  It would seem he has not done enough to earn the shot this year.  I just want the best player to play.  If Streveler earns a shot and proves to be the best player, fine.  

[doitny]

12 minutes ago, football guy said:

A few things: 

1) I wouldn’t call it disciplinary, but if Zach didn’t snap at the reporters this probably doesn’t happen. Mike LaFleur wanted to give Mike White an opportunity because he feels those 3-to-5 easy completions per game will be the difference, but Saleh shut that down at halftime. LaFleur and Wilson have a solid relationship but things have started to become testy because Wilson felt like he’s been doing everything he’s being asked and LaFleur/Calabrese have not been up front about their dissatisfaction with the breakdown in footwork (likely due winning being a good deodorant coupled with the ramifications such an admission would take + Saleh’s emphasis on positive reinforcement). LaFleur is big on fundamentals but more so how it impacts plays than actually coaching/hammering them and Rob Calabrese is basically being groomed into a “passing game coordinator” - they do not have the time to work on footwork. They had hoped it would get corrected over the bye week—which is totally unrealistic. Saleh is big with mental health and when he saw how Zach handled post-game, the reaction inside/outside the building, and his perception of Zach’s mindset in their conversation on Monday morning are all factors that led to him wanting the brutally honest answers from his staff. I didn’t legitimately believe he would pull the trigger, but he bought into the reset plan and Douglas/Woody were OK with it, green lighting the change. 

2) outside of team drills, Zach is working closely with offensive assistant Billy VandeMerkt on his footwork, with overtime work with MLF and Calabrese after practice. He’ll likely have this regiment for 2 weeks, return as backup against the Bills, and possibly back in the starting lineup by Detroit depending how things go (if they’re outperforming expectations there will not be a shakeup). Zach is expected to also work on his own with John Beck, but he won’t be hired by the team. 

3) let’s just make this clear right now: acquiring Jimmy Garoppolo/Derek Carr for $40+ million per season next offseason is a pipe dream. As I’ve maintained: this administration is unorthodox and they truly do not care about stats or historical trends. I think they realize theit failings in Zach’s development, but fans who think they will outright give up on him for someone else are mistaken. They believe in his ability and are not going to be awarded the easy way out absent a Super Bowl run, which would validate the coach’s formula, the ability this current team has, and give the coaching staff more credibility to decide whether to add a ready QB who will help compete for multiple championships without paying the price for the Zach Wilson failure. Most likely: they will be forced to exhaust all options to get the most out of Wilson… that could be anything from a change in QB coach, coordinator, etc. 

4) The most likely result to come out of this: Mike White/Joe Flacco play for at least 2 weeks. Winning keeps them in, losing will not. Zach likely returns against Detroit. It’s impossible to know how he performs to close out the season, but unless he were to show further regression the likely result will be Case Keenum… Gardner Minshew… Geno Smith… Sam Darnold. Aka likely a disaster. 

 

Everyone is 20-20 in hindsight, but I can’t help but be disgusted with how this has gone. I know that fans on here will say “I was right”, but it truly is not that simple. Zach has all the tools, and while his play has not been great and he deserves blame for that, the fact that it has came to this is massive endictment on the offensive coaches. The lack of veteran leadership on the offensive coaching staff who can hammer the fundamentals (specifically in the QB and WR rooms) is why it came to this, because we all know footwork and timing has been an issue for the QBs/WRs for 2 years now yet no one had the balls (or ability) to step up and say “this kid needs a little more time.” It did improve over the offseason, but after the injury the coaching staff still had the opportunity to be brutally honest and hold him out additional time to make sure it was perfect. That did not happen. Instead, they they went 5-1 with him at QB despite the concerns, and now we’re here. 

It’s a QB-driven league and since I’ve been a diehard I’ve watched the Jets draft and fail at developing 5 talented QBs across 8 HC/GM combinations. No single administration should be blamed for the failures of the former, but the fact that they finally landed a good GM + HC, a talented QB and loaded the team with talent, yet still botch the development of said QB is just awful. The solution was simple: simplify the game plan for the struggling QB/WRs and hammer the details. Instead? Keep the offense as-is, bench the QB to work on his footwork, and “hope” that works. This organization simply does not understand how to ignore the noise, stay the course, and develop a QB in this market. 

maybe i missed it cause this was a long read but the locker room wasnt a factor in his benching? i mean its clearly a problem.

i dont think its as simple as wins and loses. we could lose but if White keeps the TO down and passes 66% like his avg was last year i cant see them going back to Zach. not this year.

we spoke about stats a few weeks ago and you just said the same thing... they dont care about that. now i can understand if your comparing Zach to Flacco where Flacco is better but not by much. if White can match Zachs 4 TDs and like i said above 66% and low INTs in 2 games they cant go back to Zach even if we lose the next 2.

i know your just relaying info but every time i read a post from you saying our team doesnt look at Zach being the worst QB statistically in the NFL that worries me about who we have running this team. that only one QB was ever this bad and made it and they think they can make Zach the 2nd is really concerning.

[Gibby]

3 hours ago, y2k8 said:

 

It's not disciplinary. The kid is broken.

Irreparably broken.

[greenwave81]

31 minutes ago, Lith said:

Like I said, I would not mind seeing some sort of package for him. But the coaches see him everyday in practice.  Along with Mike White and Joe Flacco.  It would seem he has not done enough to earn the shot this year.  I just want the best player to play.  If Streveler earns a shot and proves to be the best player, fine.  

I always wonder about that lol….there seems to be a whole lot of guys that look good in practice and fail in the game. Every once in awhile, usually secondary to injury I suppose, someone surprises you in the game….they just have ‘it’. They can rally players around them and get the job done. Who knows, but I think Streveler has that in him?  I know, long shot. 

[slimjasi]

16 hours ago, football guy said:

A few things: 

1) I wouldn’t call it disciplinary, but if Zach didn’t snap at the reporters this probably doesn’t happen. Mike LaFleur wanted to give Mike White an opportunity because he feels those 3-to-5 easy completions per game will be the difference, but Saleh shut that down at halftime. LaFleur and Wilson have a solid relationship but things have started to become testy because Wilson felt like he’s been doing everything he’s being asked and LaFleur/Calabrese have not been up front about their dissatisfaction with the breakdown in footwork (likely due winning being a good deodorant coupled with the ramifications such an admission would take + Saleh’s emphasis on positive reinforcement). LaFleur is big on fundamentals but more so how it impacts plays than actually coaching/hammering them and Rob Calabrese is basically being groomed into a “passing game coordinator” - they do not have the time to work on footwork. They had hoped it would get corrected over the bye week—which is totally unrealistic. Saleh is big with mental health and when he saw how Zach handled post-game, the reaction inside/outside the building, and his perception of Zach’s mindset in their conversation on Monday morning are all factors that led to him wanting the brutally honest answers from his staff. I didn’t legitimately believe he would pull the trigger, but he bought into the reset plan and Douglas/Woody were OK with it, green lighting the change. 

2) outside of team drills, Zach is working closely with offensive assistant Billy VandeMerkt on his footwork, with overtime work with MLF and Calabrese after practice. He’ll likely have this regiment for 2 weeks, return as backup against the Bills, and possibly back in the starting lineup by Detroit depending how things go (if they’re outperforming expectations there will not be a shakeup). Zach is expected to also work on his own with John Beck, but he won’t be hired by the team. 

3) let’s just make this clear right now: acquiring Jimmy Garoppolo/Derek Carr for $40+ million per season next offseason is a pipe dream. As I’ve maintained: this administration is unorthodox and they truly do not care about stats or historical trends. I think they realize their failings in Zach’s development, but fans who think they will outright give up on him for someone else are mistaken. They believe in his ability and are not going to be awarded the easy way out absent a Super Bowl run, which would validate the coach’s formula, the ability this current team has, and give the coaching staff more credibility to decide whether to add a ready QB who will help compete for multiple championships without paying the price for the Zach Wilson failure. Most likely: they will be forced to exhaust all options to get the most out of Wilson… that could be anything from a change in QB coach, coordinator, etc. 

4) The most likely result to come out of this: Mike White/Joe Flacco play for at least 2 weeks. Winning keeps them in, losing will not. Zach likely returns against Detroit. It’s impossible to know how he performs to close out the season, but unless he were to show further regression the likely result will be Case Keenum… Gardner Minshew… Geno Smith… Sam Darnold as competition with Zach next offseason, with Mike White a possibility to return as a stable QB2/3. Aka likely a disaster. 

 

Everyone is 20-20 in hindsight, but I can’t help but be disgusted with how this has gone. I know that fans on here will say “I was right”, but it truly is not that simple. Zach has all the tools, and while his play has not been great and he deserves blame for that, the fact that it has came to this is massive endictment on the offensive coaches. The lack of veteran leadership on the offensive coaching staff who can hammer the fundamentals (specifically in the QB and WR rooms) is why it came to this, because we all know footwork and timing has been an issue for the QBs/WRs for 2 years now yet no one had the balls (or ability) to step up and say “this kid needs a little more time.” It did improve over the offseason, but after the injury the coaching staff still had the opportunity to be brutally honest and hold him out additional time to make sure it was perfect. That did not happen. Instead, they they went 5-1 with him at QB despite the concerns, and now we’re here. 

It’s a QB-driven league and since I’ve been a diehard I’ve watched the Jets draft and fail at developing 5 talented QBs across 8 HC/GM combinations. No single administration should be blamed for the failures of the former, but the fact that they finally landed a good GM + HC, a talented QB and loaded the team with talent, yet still botch the development of said QB is just awful. The solution was simple: simplify the game plan for the struggling QB/WRs and hammer the details. Instead? Keep the offense as-is, bench the QB to work on his footwork, and “hope” that works. This organization simply does not understand how to ignore the noise, stay the course, and develop a QB in this market. 

Good post. Very interesting. 
 

the only thing I would say about your last point is that it’s very hard to prioritize developing a young QB when you have a playoff caliber roster. This team is good and should be in the playoffs and I don’t blame them for making the priority winning games THIS season over Zach Wilson’s development. I also think there is something to be said about the mental health stuff and I agree with Saleh that Zach needed a reset. 

[Jetluv58]

4 hours ago, doitny said:

as long as were in the playoff race Zach will sit. they didnt bring White in to just play a game or 2. and if we make the playoffs with White, Zachs reboot will happen with another team

Who comes in if White is hurt? 

[BurntDice]

57 minutes ago, doitny said:

maybe i missed it cause this was a long read but the locker room wasnt a factor in his benching? i mean its clearly a problem.

i dont think its as simple as wins and loses. we could lose but if White keeps the TO down and passes 66% like his avg was last year i cant see them going back to Zach. not this year.

we spoke about stats a few weeks ago and you just said the same thing... they dont care about that. now i can understand if your comparing Zach to Flacco where Flacco is better but not by much. if White can match Zachs 4 TDs and like i said above 66% and low INTs in 2 games they cant go back to Zach even if we lose the next 2.

i know your just relaying info but every time i read a post from you saying our team doesnt look at Zach being the worst QB statistically in the NFL that worries me about who we have running this team. that only one QB was ever this bad and made it and they think they can make Zach the 2nd is really concerning.

I think white should be at around 60% comp %. Every D coming up up in the 20s minus the Bills. The  past few games have been packers, broncos, bills, and pats x2. All are top 10 Ds minus the packers who are 16 in ppg allowed. 
 

The upcoming schedule will be much more forgiving plus Davis and some OL will be returning 

[doitny]

10 minutes ago, Jetluv58 said:

Who comes in if White is hurt? 

Flacco. thats why he is the backup this week.

[tdoublee]

A few things: 
1) I wouldn’t call it disciplinary, but if Zach didn’t snap at the reporters this probably doesn’t happen. Mike LaFleur wanted to give Mike White an opportunity because he feels those 3-to-5 easy completions per game will be the difference, but Saleh shut that down at halftime. LaFleur and Wilson have a solid relationship but things have started to become testy because Wilson felt like he’s been doing everything he’s being asked and LaFleur/Calabrese have not been up front about their dissatisfaction with the breakdown in footwork (likely due winning being a good deodorant coupled with the ramifications such an admission would take + Saleh’s emphasis on positive reinforcement). LaFleur is big on fundamentals but more so how it impacts plays than actually coaching/hammering them and Rob Calabrese is basically being groomed into a “passing game coordinator” - they do not have the time to work on footwork. They had hoped it would get corrected over the bye week—which is totally unrealistic. Saleh is big with mental health and when he saw how Zach handled post-game, the reaction inside/outside the building, and his perception of Zach’s mindset in their conversation on Monday morning are all factors that led to him wanting the brutally honest answers from his staff. I didn’t legitimately believe he would pull the trigger, but he bought into the reset plan and Douglas/Woody were OK with it, green lighting the change. 

2) outside of team drills, Zach is working closely with offensive assistant Billy VandeMerkt on his footwork, with overtime work with MLF and Calabrese after practice. He’ll likely have this regiment for 2 weeks, return as backup against the Bills, and possibly back in the starting lineup by Detroit depending how things go (if they’re outperforming expectations there will not be a shakeup). Zach is expected to also work on his own with John Beck, but he won’t be hired by the team. 

3) let’s just make this clear right now: acquiring Jimmy Garoppolo/Derek Carr for $40+ million per season next offseason is a pipe dream. As I’ve maintained: this administration is unorthodox and they truly do not care about stats or historical trends. I think they realize their failings in Zach’s development, but fans who think they will outright give up on him for someone else are mistaken. They believe in his ability and are not going to be awarded the easy way out absent a Super Bowl run, which would validate the coach’s formula, the ability this current team has, and give the coaching staff more credibility to decide whether to add a ready QB who will help compete for multiple championships without paying the price for the Zach Wilson failure. Most likely: they will be forced to exhaust all options to get the most out of Wilson… that could be anything from a change in QB coach, coordinator, etc. 
4) The most likely result to come out of this: Mike White/Joe Flacco play for at least 2 weeks. Winning keeps them in, losing will not. Zach likely returns against Detroit. It’s impossible to know how he performs to close out the season, but unless he were to show further regression the likely result will be Case Keenum… Gardner Minshew… Geno Smith… Sam Darnold as competition with Zach next offseason, with Mike White a possibility to return as a stable QB2/3. Aka likely a disaster. 

 
Everyone is 20-20 in hindsight, but I can’t help but be disgusted with how this has gone. I know that fans on here will say “I was right”, but it truly is not that simple. Zach has all the tools, and while his play has not been great and he deserves blame for that, the fact that it has came to this is massive endictment on the offensive coaches. The lack of veteran leadership on the offensive coaching staff who can hammer the fundamentals (specifically in the QB and WR rooms) is why it came to this, because we all know footwork and timing has been an issue for the QBs/WRs for 2 years now yet no one had the balls (or ability) to step up and say “this kid needs a little more time.” It did improve over the offseason, but after the injury the coaching staff still had the opportunity to be brutally honest and hold him out additional time to make sure it was perfect. That did not happen. Instead, they they went 5-1 with him at QB despite the concerns, and now we’re here. 
It’s a QB-driven league and since I’ve been a diehard I’ve watched the Jets draft and fail at developing 5 talented QBs across 8 HC/GM combinations. No single administration should be blamed for the failures of the former, but the fact that they finally landed a good GM + HC, a talented QB and loaded the team with talent, yet still botch the development of said QB is just awful. The solution was simple: simplify the game plan for the struggling QB/WRs and hammer the details. Instead? Keep the offense as-is, bench the QB to work on his footwork, and “hope” that works. This organization simply does not understand how to ignore the noise, stay the course, and develop a QB in this market. 

Great post. The footwork still being an issue concerns me about Zach's overall work ethic and/or our QB coach's ability to address and fix it. Zach had all off-season to correct his footwork but now it looks worse than ever. How is he going to get that fixed in 2-3 weeks? Did he really work on it this off-season or was he focused on other things?

Kudos to Saleh to finally recognize that this was headed toward disaster and press pause before it was too late. I think Zach can still come back one day and be successful, but he needs a veteran voice who can coach him up correctly. LaFluer and Calabrese appear to be too green to handle that responsibility.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

[ChewyandtheJets]

Guys the list of what Zach Wilson has to improve to get to even below average is staggering:

-terrible footwork.  When steps into a throw he’s good but way too often it’s back foot or all arm.  
-gets rattled by rush and abandons pocket very often sideways or backwards

-cannot see the field.  Even when plays break down and he scrambles almost never can find an open receiver.   They must break open he just cannot see them for some reason.

-tentative and indecisive.  Even if first read is open he often doesn’t pull the trigger

-totally intimidated and broken versus belichek who is his daddy.  Don’t think this will ever change.  
-while athletic appears physically small and has already proven injury prone. 

one or two issues can be fixed.  A multitude most likely cannot.   In fact if he wasn’t picked where he was there’s no way with his current skill set even makes the roster.   They can have a reboot every season but the outcome is not gonna change.  
 

[football guy]

2 hours ago, doitny said:

maybe i missed it cause this was a long read but the locker room wasnt a factor in his benching? i mean its clearly a problem.

i dont think its as simple as wins and loses. we could lose but if White keeps the TO down and passes 66% like his avg was last year i cant see them going back to Zach. not this year.

we spoke about stats a few weeks ago and you just said the same thing... they dont care about that. now i can understand if your comparing Zach to Flacco where Flacco is better but not by much. if White can match Zachs 4 TDs and like i said above 66% and low INTs in 2 games they cant go back to Zach even if we lose the next 2.

i know your just relaying info but every time i read a post from you saying our team doesnt look at Zach being the worst QB statistically in the NFL that worries me about who we have running this team. that only one QB was ever this bad and made it and they think they can make Zach the 2nd is really concerning.

Yes (post-game handling falls into that category), but it’s something that was overblown by the media. After Zach requested a meeting with Saleh on Monday to address it, Saleh sensed Zach wasn’t in the right headspace, and combined with his play and everything else, it ultimately put the “reset” plan in motion. 

What concerns me most about Zach is (1) how he lets outside forces get into his head; and (2) his requirement that everything be perfect in order to perform. 

I have no idea what happens from here. I know Zach is handling it well but I think the Jets piled on and created an unnecessary distraction when the simple answer was to address and fix the issues on the fly. It’s simply my opinion that this move—which they think will be successful—ultimately blows up in the Jets face.

[Saul Goodman]

There’s no head coach, offensive coordinator, quarterback coach or surrounding team that could transform Zach into a good QB. He is deficient in virtually every single aspect of being a successful QB - size, accuracy, composure, processing speed/ability. Arm doesn’t count, as we’ve seen from countless other QB busts.

Time won’t help either.

The Jets failure wasn’t the plan for development, it was drafting him in the first place.