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This is a pause


slats

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10 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

There's nothing your going to see from in the 4-5 games he may play that's going to tell us anything new about Zach. These guys are saying all the positive things because I do believe they expect to keep Zach in 2023 and they probably don't have all that much faith in White/Flacco but they're also realistic enough to know you can't really bank on Zach fixing his issues - These kind of "resets" just don't really happen and the fact that they have to point Geno - who took 8 years and 4 teams to get on track - tells you how salvageable these type of situations generally are. 

Going into next season with Zach as the starter is screwing around at QB. There's nothing he could show in whatever games he plays to inspire confidence that he's the guy - In fact the absolute worst case scenario for me was always that he'd have a similar end to last season where people would point to mythical improvement as a means to bring him back as a #1. 

Zach at best cannot be anything more than plan B for next year - If he pieces things together in camp and outplays everyone then maybe you can see what's there but given how unlikely that is you have to proceed with someone else in mind as the starter. All avenues should be being explored - Draft, FA's, Trades - Whatever we go with will be one of Douglas' defining moves imo. 

This is how i see it, too. I think ultimately, we are screwed/screwing around next year or two. Paying Zach $10M and some other stopgap QB like brissett, seems like the most likely. Woof.

 

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3 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I think you’re underestimating the fact that their jobs could easily be on the line in 2023. They’d be morons to bet on Zach Wilson with everything on the line. They’ll do whatever they need to to ensure the highest probability of success.

JD is safe. Saleh is safe. The Jets D has vastly improved this year. JD has added essential pieces to both sides of the ball. QB is the trickiest position to get right. They’re totally safe. Say it like a California dude…like totally man. They will continue to work with Zach this year and next. If he flops next year, they will turn it over to a vet who they will sign in 2023. They’ll hold on to Zach and by end of 2024, he’ll have either emerged or submerged. Mike White is not the long term answer. 

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14 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

 

I’ve been, as you can imagine, getting a lot of request in the last few minutes, lol.  I promise I will hit you guys up by the end of the night.  Still have guests right now who are probably wondering why I have been in the bathroom for 40 or so minutes ?.

I’ll be waiting…

jennifer connelly horse GIF

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1 hour ago, Paradis said:

i think the only possible move forward is to pay someone like you said to come and start - and tell Wilson he has to out play that guy to start games. It’s possible - but that also would mean that Zach ACTUALLY becomes the guy he was sold to be. He’d have that guy to beat out a JG.

lol Geno. Funny, but his play rn —> we’re in 1st place comfortably. That scenario would either be a total circus or, embraced as a coming home moment. No in between. 

Yup.  At this stage, I think the best Zach can hope for is a chance to win back the starting job.  I cannot see him going into camp as the presumptive starter, but how we approach the position in the offseason will give us an idea of what the staff really thinks of Zach's potential.   

As for Geno, I can't see him coming here next season, but he will be a FA.  And as you said, the way Geno has played this season he woud have us leading the Division and in the discussion for #1 overall seed.

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5 hours ago, doitny said:

of course it was. after what i have seen i dont believe Zach really beat out Flacco and or White. 

I wasn't talking about past competitions, but yes, those were heavily slanted in his favor for sure.

I think it'd be hard for the FO/CS to rig a hypothetical competition in his favor next year, though, seeing what they've seen from him, or so I hope. And I'd think that if they do go after a higher profile target, like Jimmy G, that all but prove that they're serious about a true competition, and I don't believe for a second that Zach would win straight up.

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5 hours ago, Mogglez said:

I’m not going to step on anyone’s toes here, but I vehemently disagree with the notion that the Jets have made this worse, or that anything QB related for next year is a pipe dream.  There is, also, a very good reason that White was promoted a few weeks ago, and I will leave it at that. The decision to bench Zach was not a rash decision based off of one word said in a post game press conference.

Thanks for sharing.  Can I ask, based on your info, if you think the jets still believe Zack is their QB of the future?

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12 hours ago, football guy said:

A few things: 

1) I wouldn’t call it disciplinary, but if Zach didn’t snap at the reporters this probably doesn’t happen. Mike LaFleur wanted to give Mike White an opportunity because he feels those 3-to-5 easy completions per game will be the difference, but Saleh shut that down at halftime. LaFleur and Wilson have a solid relationship but things have started to become testy because Wilson felt like he’s been doing everything he’s being asked and LaFleur/Calabrese have not been up front about their dissatisfaction with the breakdown in footwork (likely due winning being a good deodorant coupled with the ramifications such an admission would take + Saleh’s emphasis on positive reinforcement). LaFleur is big on fundamentals but more so how it impacts plays than actually coaching/hammering them and Rob Calabrese is basically being groomed into a “passing game coordinator” - they do not have the time to work on footwork. They had hoped it would get corrected over the bye week—which is totally unrealistic. Saleh is big with mental health and when he saw how Zach handled post-game, the reaction inside/outside the building, and his perception of Zach’s mindset in their conversation on Monday morning are all factors that led to him wanting the brutally honest answers from his staff. I didn’t legitimately believe he would pull the trigger, but he bought into the reset plan and Douglas/Woody were OK with it, green lighting the change. 

2) outside of team drills, Zach is working closely with offensive assistant Billy VandeMerkt on his footwork, with overtime work with MLF and Calabrese after practice. He’ll likely have this regiment for 2 weeks, return as backup against the Bills, and possibly back in the starting lineup by Detroit depending how things go (if they’re outperforming expectations there will not be a shakeup). Zach is expected to also work on his own with John Beck, but he won’t be hired by the team. 

3) let’s just make this clear right now: acquiring Jimmy Garoppolo/Derek Carr for $40+ million per season next offseason is a pipe dream. As I’ve maintained: this administration is unorthodox and they truly do not care about stats or historical trends. I think they realize their failings in Zach’s development, but fans who think they will outright give up on him for someone else are mistaken. They believe in his ability and are not going to be awarded the easy way out absent a Super Bowl run, which would validate the coach’s formula, the ability this current team has, and give the coaching staff more credibility to decide whether to add a ready QB who will help compete for multiple championships without paying the price for the Zach Wilson failure. Most likely: they will be forced to exhaust all options to get the most out of Wilson… that could be anything from a change in QB coach, coordinator, etc. 

4) The most likely result to come out of this: Mike White/Joe Flacco play for at least 2 weeks. Winning keeps them in, losing will not. Zach likely returns against Detroit. It’s impossible to know how he performs to close out the season, but unless he were to show further regression the likely result will be Case Keenum… Gardner Minshew… Geno Smith… Sam Darnold as competition with Zach next offseason, with Mike White a possibility to return as a stable QB2/3. Aka likely a disaster. 


 

Everyone is 20-20 in hindsight, but I can’t help but be disgusted with how this has gone. I know that fans on here will say “I was right”, but it truly is not that simple. Zach has all the tools, and while his play has not been great and he deserves blame for that, the fact that it has came to this is massive endictment on the offensive coaches. The lack of veteran leadership on the offensive coaching staff who can hammer the fundamentals (specifically in the QB and WR rooms) is why it came to this, because we all know footwork and timing has been an issue for the QBs/WRs for 2 years now yet no one had the balls (or ability) to step up and say “this kid needs a little more time.” It did improve over the offseason, but after the injury the coaching staff still had the opportunity to be brutally honest and hold him out additional time to make sure it was perfect. That did not happen. Instead, they they went 5-1 with him at QB despite the concerns, and now we’re here. 

It’s a QB-driven league and since I’ve been a diehard I’ve watched the Jets draft and fail at developing 5 talented QBs across 8 HC/GM combinations. No single administration should be blamed for the failures of the former, but the fact that they finally landed a good GM + HC, a talented QB and loaded the team with talent, yet still botch the development of said QB is just awful. The solution was simple: simplify the game plan for the struggling QB/WRs and hammer the details. Instead? Keep the offense as-is, bench the QB to work on his footwork, and “hope” that works. This organization simply does not understand how to ignore the noise, stay the course, and develop a QB in this market. 

One of my main takeaways from your post was that the Jets have never recovered from the loss of Greg Knapp.  He was going to be the veteran in the offensive coaching room and could have been the experienced guy to focus on developing Zach while MLF worked on the offense and Calabrese was being groomed.  In defense of Saleh and the team, they had a good plan in place with Knapp, but all of their attempts to replace him (Cavanaugh and bringing Beck on staff) didn’t pan out.

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10 hours ago, Maynard13 said:

JD is safe. Saleh is safe. The Jets D has vastly improved this year. JD has added essential pieces to both sides of the ball. QB is the trickiest position to get right. They’re totally safe. Say it like a California dude…like totally man. They will continue to work with Zach this year and next. If he flops next year, they will turn it over to a vet who they will sign in 2023. They’ll hold on to Zach and by end of 2024, he’ll have either emerged or submerged. Mike White is not the long term answer. 

I firmly believe the bold. Jobs are not going to be on the line next year. Unfortunately, I also believe that Zach will most likely be here next season, regardless of what he does the rest of this year. I take Saleh at his word, though, and also definitely believe that Zach will start again this year. They’re going to need to do something at QB for next season, and they’re going to need to know just how drastic that move needs to be. Mike White’s not under contract next year, he’ll be an UFA. It’s gonna have to be either/or when it comes to getting veteran help thru free agency or a trade, or to resign White. I’d bet on them going outside the organization. 
 
I’m in the camp that Wilson’s issues are primarily mental/psychological, but I’m becoming less and less convinced that he may be able to overcome them, even if he comes back from this time off and plays well. He’s played well coming back from injury twice already, and then regressed again twice. The bad habits come back way too quickly and easily, and then he gets stuck there. Given their investment and his raw tools, though, I understand trying to get him to the point where the bulb goes off. 

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12 hours ago, Mogglez said:

There is, also, a very good reason that White was promoted a few weeks ago, and I will leave it at that. The decision to bench Zach was not a rash decision based off of one word said in a post game press conference.

I understand this. I commented back when they promoted White that it was -at the very least- a move designed to kick Zach in the ass. I still don’t think he’s benched this week without the press conference. I do think they would’ve prepared White during the week and been ready for the quick hook, though. Honestly, if they were already prepared to make this move in the weeks prior, they should’ve made it during the NE game. But when Saleh initially said that changing QBs was the last thing on his mind, I think that was true. Zach’s presser almost made it necessary. 

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8 minutes ago, slats said:

I understand this. I commented back when they promoted White that it was -at the very least- a move designed to kick Zach in the ass. I still don’t think he’s benched this week without the press conference. I do think they would’ve prepared White during the week and been ready for the quick hook, though. Honestly, if they were already prepared to make this move in the weeks prior, they should’ve made it during the NE game. But when Saleh initially said that changing QBs was the last thing on his mind, I think that was true. Zach’s presser almost made it necessary. 

I think he would have been benched without the presser.  The coaches have seen him close up on and off the field every day and they know what they see.  The way they tried to neuter him vs NE was a last ditch hope to try to avoid a reset.  The fundamentals are off, the confidence is off, the results aren’t there and they know he’s been struggling.  The press conference was gravy on the turkey.  

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I think he would have been benched without the presser.  The coaches have seen him close up on and off the field every day and they know what they see.  The way they tried to neuter him vs NE was a last ditch hope to try to avoid a reset.  The fundamentals are off, the confidence is off, the results aren’t there and they know he’s been struggling.  The press conference was gravy on the turkey.  
All of this is absolute truth.

I kind of chuckled at the ...

"Zach's story is not done here ..." Saleh cushion ..

Last person to get that ..
Mr. Becton

Both have a slim chance of revival ... I guess we will see.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

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Just now, Dunnie said:

All of this is absolute truth.

I kind of chuckled at the ...

"Zach's story is not done here ..." Saleh cushion ..

Last person to get that ..
Mr. Becton

Both have a slim chance of revival ... I guess we will see.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

becton may not simply be physically able to play.  Wilson really needs to embrace the reality that he needs to work on the ‘boring’ elements of his game to improve. This is a classic case of coaches really trying to get through to a young kid to help him succeed.  Many layers to this.

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23 hours ago, doitny said:

didnt he reset after his injury last year? we brought in his personal QB coach and went back to basics to remember how not to bounce screen passes. 

how many resets does this kid get before we say he is a bust

This reset will be the one that works. I promise. If not this one, I super promise that his next reset will be the last and final reset.

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21 hours ago, football guy said:

A few things: 

1) I wouldn’t call it disciplinary, but if Zach didn’t snap at the reporters this probably doesn’t happen. Mike LaFleur wanted to give Mike White an opportunity because he feels those 3-to-5 easy completions per game will be the difference, but Saleh shut that down at halftime. LaFleur and Wilson have a solid relationship but things have started to become testy because Wilson felt like he’s been doing everything he’s being asked and LaFleur/Calabrese have not been up front about their dissatisfaction with the breakdown in footwork (likely due winning being a good deodorant coupled with the ramifications such an admission would take + Saleh’s emphasis on positive reinforcement). LaFleur is big on fundamentals but more so how it impacts plays than actually coaching/hammering them and Rob Calabrese is basically being groomed into a “passing game coordinator” - they do not have the time to work on footwork. They had hoped it would get corrected over the bye week—which is totally unrealistic. Saleh is big with mental health and when he saw how Zach handled post-game, the reaction inside/outside the building, and his perception of Zach’s mindset in their conversation on Monday morning are all factors that led to him wanting the brutally honest answers from his staff. I didn’t legitimately believe he would pull the trigger, but he bought into the reset plan and Douglas/Woody were OK with it, green lighting the change. 

2) outside of team drills, Zach is working closely with offensive assistant Billy VandeMerkt on his footwork, with overtime work with MLF and Calabrese after practice. He’ll likely have this regiment for 2 weeks, return as backup against the Bills, and possibly back in the starting lineup by Detroit depending how things go (if they’re outperforming expectations there will not be a shakeup). Zach is expected to also work on his own with John Beck, but he won’t be hired by the team. 

3) let’s just make this clear right now: acquiring Jimmy Garoppolo/Derek Carr for $40+ million per season next offseason is a pipe dream. As I’ve maintained: this administration is unorthodox and they truly do not care about stats or historical trends. I think they realize their failings in Zach’s development, but fans who think they will outright give up on him for someone else are mistaken. They believe in his ability and are not going to be awarded the easy way out absent a Super Bowl run, which would validate the coach’s formula, the ability this current team has, and give the coaching staff more credibility to decide whether to add a ready QB who will help compete for multiple championships without paying the price for the Zach Wilson failure. Most likely: they will be forced to exhaust all options to get the most out of Wilson… that could be anything from a change in QB coach, coordinator, etc. 

4) The most likely result to come out of this: Mike White/Joe Flacco play for at least 2 weeks. Winning keeps them in, losing will not. Zach likely returns against Detroit. It’s impossible to know how he performs to close out the season, but unless he were to show further regression the likely result will be Case Keenum… Gardner Minshew… Geno Smith… Sam Darnold as competition with Zach next offseason, with Mike White a possibility to return as a stable QB2/3. Aka likely a disaster. 


 

Everyone is 20-20 in hindsight, but I can’t help but be disgusted with how this has gone. I know that fans on here will say “I was right”, but it truly is not that simple. Zach has all the tools, and while his play has not been great and he deserves blame for that, the fact that it has came to this is massive endictment on the offensive coaches. The lack of veteran leadership on the offensive coaching staff who can hammer the fundamentals (specifically in the QB and WR rooms) is why it came to this, because we all know footwork and timing has been an issue for the QBs/WRs for 2 years now yet no one had the balls (or ability) to step up and say “this kid needs a little more time.” It did improve over the offseason, but after the injury the coaching staff still had the opportunity to be brutally honest and hold him out additional time to make sure it was perfect. That did not happen. Instead, they they went 5-1 with him at QB despite the concerns, and now we’re here. 

It’s a QB-driven league and since I’ve been a diehard I’ve watched the Jets draft and fail at developing 5 talented QBs across 8 HC/GM combinations. No single administration should be blamed for the failures of the former, but the fact that they finally landed a good GM + HC, a talented QB and loaded the team with talent, yet still botch the development of said QB is just awful. The solution was simple: simplify the game plan for the struggling QB/WRs and hammer the details. Instead? Keep the offense as-is, bench the QB to work on his footwork, and “hope” that works. This organization simply does not understand how to ignore the noise, stay the course, and develop a QB in this market. 

I'm now convinced you are Zach Wilson's dad. 

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13 hours ago, Mogglez said:

 

I’ve been, as you can imagine, getting a lot of request in the last few minutes, lol.  I promise I will hit you guys up by the end of the night.  Still have guests right now who are probably wondering why I have been in the bathroom for 40 or so minutes ?.

Have you tried prunes?

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Whenever I sign on here and see a guy yelling at me in response to one of my very accurate posts, I remember that that they once labeled Galileo a heretic and imprisoned him until his death in 1642 
@TomShane I typically love your very accurate posts .. it's the other .. maybe .02 percent of your sum total of posts ... So never stop being you .. one of my favorite posters. ...

...Go Mike White...

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

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7 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

@TomShane I typically love your very accurate posts .. it's the other .. maybe .02 percent of your sum total of posts ... So never stop being you .. one of my favorite posters. ...

...Go Mike White...emoji55.png

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

That’s very nice of you to say, @Dunnie. I love you too. For the record, a solid 12% of my posts are disgusting and an embarrassment to me and my family name.

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2 hours ago, maury77 said:

She's so delicious, I hate that she lost some weight. 

No sh*t! she’s a skeleton! Hollywood smh, Corrupted that female gem. I grew up dreaming of getting lost in her labyrinth… tough to see her now doing the crypt keeper thing. 

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