This is a pause

[Jetsfan80]

When it comes to Wilson, I hope this "pause" is more like hitting the eject button.  

[batman10023]

On 11/24/2022 at 3:35 PM, football guy said:

Yes (post-game handling falls into that category), but it’s something that was overblown by the media. After Zach requested a meeting with Saleh on Monday to address it, Saleh sensed Zach wasn’t in the right headspace, and combined with his play and everything else, it ultimately put the “reset” plan in motion. 

What concerns me most about Zach is (1) how he lets outside forces get into his head; and (2) his requirement that everything be perfect in order to perform. 

I have no idea what happens from here. I know Zach is handling it well but I think the Jets piled on and created an unnecessary distraction when the simple answer was to address and fix the issues on the fly. It’s simply my opinion that this move—which they think will be successful—ultimately blows up in the Jets face.

thanks for all of the color FG.

how does this ultimately blow up in the Jets face?

[Dcat]

On 11/26/2022 at 11:33 PM, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

The amount of talent passed on in order to roll the dice on bust Kapono is absurd:

Chase

Surtain II

Sewell

Micah freaking Parsons

Fields

Waddle

DeVonta Smith 

Rashawn Slater

not to mention the boatload of draft picks that the 49ers were willing to send to Joe Douglas to move into pick 2.

[batman10023]

On 11/26/2022 at 1:28 PM, SickJetFan said:

If Breece Hall doesn't get hurt Jets would be in 1st place right now and Zach would still be QB right or wrong.  That is the formula we need Breece or another Breece with good defense.

Question is who gets to play with Breece when he gets back assuming he gets back to way he was.

I think MLF has been in over his head and I really hope he starts getting better because all we have seen for 2 years is a guy doing on the job training and during his pressers saying how he needs to be better (yeah well no sh*t).  Breece literally breathed fire into his offense by himself even on blown plays making every 3rd down short yardage.

will Breece be back to normal by mid season next year?

[Dcat]

On 11/27/2022 at 7:42 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

When it comes to Wilson, I hope this "pause" is more like hitting the eject button.  

Jets send pickup service to bring Zach Wilson to facility

[batman10023]

On 11/26/2022 at 2:05 PM, football guy said:

No disagreement here. They will always look to acquire talent and want to foster a competitive environment. That’s the organizational MO. But the staff is highly aware that there will be ramifications if they simply “give up” on developing a talent they were all so unanimously bullish of. Absent Zach further regressing in practice and games when (and if) he returns this season, Joe Douglas is not totally giving up on him. And with that, I don’t think Saleh or LaFleur either. I think fans are getting the sense that LaFleur likes Mike White better as an absolute, which is a flawed and inaccurate conclusion. He likes Mike White better right now. He sees things the same way Mike Shanahan, Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVay, Matt LaFleur, Gary Kubiak, Kevin Stefanski, and all the others from that tree have: if you find a QB with raw athletic gifts who is capable of supplementing their playmaking ability with efficient down-to-down play, that player will foster an unstoppable offense. But if the talented guy is not efficient, they will go with the efficient guy in the near-term every time. 

If the team performs extremely well again next year and Zach (or a vet competitor) still holds them back from contending for a championship, I do believe Douglas and Saleh would get a pass and be free to acquire another QB how they see fit in 2024. The sense I have always gotten is that won’t be the case in 2023 though

if the Jets win 10 games this year and again next year, no way JD or RS are going anywhere in my opinion.

i'd even argue 9 wins both years would be okay if they are just a QB away.

[VJphillyfan]

On 11/27/2022 at 7:42 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

When it comes to Wilson, I hope this "pause" is more like hitting the eject button.  

Indefinite pause

[SickJetFan]

8 hours ago, batman10023 said:

will Breece be back to normal by mid season next year?

kid is barely 21 so I would he can bounce back from this by then

[VJphillyfan]

20 hours ago, batman10023 said:

will Breece be back to normal by mid season next year?

Best case scenario he has Dalvin Cook’s career.  Worst case is he’s Elijah Mitchell and can’t walk to a huddle without getting injured

[batman10023]

1 hour ago, VJphillyfan said:

Best case scenario he has Dalvin Cook’s career.  Worst case is he’s Elijah Mitchell and can’t walk to a huddle without getting injured

i am hoping he's like Cook.   it is just so disappointing given how nice he was going.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

On 11/27/2022 at 4:42 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

When it comes to Wilson, I hope this "pause" is more like hitting the eject button.  

ZW = Betamax

MW = YouTubeTV

[football guy]

3 hours ago, batman10023 said:

thanks for all of the color FG.

how does this ultimately blow up in the Jets face?

My feelings are less rooted in logic and more rooted in pessimism.  We've seen too many instances where a subpar talent comes in, plays well, the fans go bonkers for that player, the organization caves/pays him, the guy falls back to earth, the team underperforms, everyone gets fired. We've also seen many instances where a team makes a significant investment in a QB, the player doesn't develop as hoped, and everyone gets fired.  I admit that every scenario is mutually exclusive of one another, but I guess given the Jets history I'm pessimistic that things move forward status quo if Zach doesn't get back on track.  Absent Mike White becoming the next Kurt Warner, someone will pay the price for Zach Wilson not panning out if he doesn't.  As much as I think Zach has all the tools to overcome this, part of me worries about his ability to handle adversity and I'm not sure how he comes out of this. 

3 hours ago, batman10023 said:

if the Jets win 10 games this year and again next year, no way JD or RS are going anywhere in my opinion.

i'd even argue 9 wins both years would be okay if they are just a QB away.

1. Big if's.  I think this team is arguably the most talented Jets team I've known, but there's no guarantee we're winning 10 this year, let alone next year. 
2. I truly don't believe Joe or Robert Saleh will be given a free pass to sign/trade for any QB they want.  It will have to be a situation where they go out, sign/trade for a veteran QB as a reclamation project, and have them compete with Wilson and Mike White.  If they feel confident Mike White is enough competition, they probably avoid adding a veteran and draft someone in day 2/3.  But if Wilson, White, vet were to fail and the Jets were to miss the playoffs in 2023, I think heads would roll. 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Interesting

NE is 5-0 against backup / benched (ZW) QBs this season 

[Green Ghost]

On 11/26/2022 at 8:16 PM, greenwave81 said:

So...basically what you're saying is that Jacksonville benched Minshew to garner a better draft choice. And then, even though he is so freaking awesome that he had to be benched, trade him to Philadelphia for a 6th round DP while settling for CJ Bethard as back up.

Got it.  Doesn't make a lick of sense, but....got it.

Meanwhile, our savior, Mike White couldn't get a team to sign him for a 5th rd tender this past off-season.  Got it.

If Minshew is 'all that', why didn't someone WOW the Eagles with a trade proposal for him this trade window?

[T0mShane]

Zach Wilson inactive two weeks in a row. Sorta feels like more than a pause. This is getting sent to Siberia to work the salt mines.

[Hal N of Provo]

24 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Zach Wilson inactive two weeks in a row. Sorta feels like more than a pause. This is getting sent to Siberia to work the salt mines.

Still running the practice squad.  Are you in charge of the breaks activities for Zach? 

[clayton163v]

Uh, no.

It is not a pause.

It is Mike White's time.  If he succeeds.  It is Wally Pip for Zach and he is off to Cleveland.  If Mike stumbles, Zach will get another chance next season. 

But Mike will not stumble.  This team is loaded. 

This is no pause. 

Mike White?  Is he the truth?  No.  Just a smart QB who is the master of the little things.  He freezes linebackers and safeties with perfect form and gets rid of it stopwatch quick.  I refer to the stopwatch because it is a Mike White measurable metric that can be compared to other NFL players.  Unlike many of the vague stuff about talent which sounds a lot like crypto salesmen to me.

Much has been made of Zach Wilson versus Mike White as talents.  Yet there is no evidence of which I am aware that proves Zach Wilson has ANY elite attributes.  He never worked out.  Neither at the combine nor at his pro day.  We saw him throw, that's all.  No jumps.  No 40.  No splits.  I was aghast.

In any event, here come the Vikings.  Much will be settled this week and next.

[Hal N of Provo]

23 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

Uh, no.

It is not a pause.

It is Mike White's time.  If he succeeds.  It is Wally Pip for Zach and he is off to Cleveland.  If Mike stumbles, Zach will get another chance next season. 

But Mike will not stumble.  This team is loaded. 

This is no pause. 

Mike White?  Is he the truth?  No.  Just a smart QB who is the master of the little things.  He freezes linebackers and safeties with perfect form and gets rid of it stopwatch quick.  I refer to the stopwatch because it is a Mike White measurable metric that can be compared to other NFL players.  Unlike many of the vague stuff about talent which sounds a lot like crypto salesmen to me.

Much has been made of Zach Wilson versus Mike White as talents.  Yet there is no evidence of which I am aware that proves Zach Wilson has ANY elite attributes.  He never worked out.  Neither at the combine nor at his pro day.  We saw him throw, that's all.  No jumps.  No 40.  No splits.  I was aghast.

In any event, here come the Vikings.  Much will be settled this week and next.

People keep saying this… and it’s not going to happen.   They are not trading Zach in the off-season. 

Zach costs 3.8 million cash next season to keep.  He would be a 20.7 million dead cap hit - 11 million more than keeping him.  
 

He’s not getting traded or dumped unless they see him hurting the locker room in a big way.  
 

I bet they would want to see him in camp 2024 at the very earliest.   

[Jets Voice of Reason]

2 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

People keep saying this… and it’s not going to happen.   They are not trading Zach in the off-season. 

Zach costs 3.8 million cash next season to keep.  He would be a 20.7 million dead cap hit - 11 million more than keeping him.  
 

He’s not getting traded or dumped unless they see him hurting the locker room in a big way.  
 

I bet they would want to see him in camp 2024 at the very earliest.   

He's going to get a shot at the job next year. It makes too much financial sense and his trade value couldn't be any lower than it is now.

[slimjasi]

4 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

People keep saying this… and it’s not going to happen.   They are not trading Zach in the off-season. 

Zach costs 3.8 million cash next season to keep.  He would be a 20.7 million dead cap hit - 11 million more than keeping him.  
 

He’s not getting traded or dumped unless they see him hurting the locker room in a big way.  
 

I bet they would want to see him in camp 2024 at the very earliest.   

Yeah, I think the earliest he will be realistically off the team is after next season. If Mike White takes this job and never looks back, Zach will be the backup next year, IMO. 

[VJphillyfan]

5 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Yeah, I think the earliest he will be realistically off the team is after next season. If Mike White takes this job and never looks back, Zach will be the backup next year, IMO. 

Back to back weeks an uninjured Wilson is not dressing.  It is so obvious this organization is done with him.  He’ll look good holding a clipboard in Houston or Denver next season 

[VJphillyfan]

11 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

People keep saying this… and it’s not going to happen.   They are not trading Zach in the off-season. 

Zach costs 3.8 million cash next season to keep.  He would be a 20.7 million dead cap hit - 11 million more than keeping him.  
 

He’s not getting traded or dumped unless they see him hurting the locker room in a big way.  
 

I bet they would want to see him in camp 2024 at the very earliest.   

We always need a waterboy 

[slimjasi]

7 minutes ago, VJphillyfan said:

Back to back weeks an uninjured Wilson is not dressing.  It is so obvious this organization is done with him.  He’ll look good holding a clipboard in Houston or Denver next season 

If you are so confident, please name a number and we can have a little bet. 

FYI, it makes no financial sense for the Jets to trade him or cut him before next season and his trade value is as low as it could possibly be given that he was taken #2 overall. He's going to be on the roster next season, but if you really disagree, I will gladly take your money. 

[VJphillyfan]

Just now, slimjasi said:

If you are so confident, please name a number and we a little bet. 

FYI, it makes no financial sense for the Jets to trade him or cut him before next season and his trade value is as low as it could possibly be given that he was taken #2 overall. He's going to be on the roster next season, but if you really disagree, I will gladly take your money. 

Ok we get it.  JD giving Wilson a stupid scale contract two years ago means they are forced to not trade him.  Barring an injury to mike white and the FO being stupid enough to not sign a veteran in the offseason like Jimmy G Zach Wilson is never playing another regular season down again for this team.  He’s a horrible bust. And the FO and all the Zach fanboys have egg on their face 

[PS17]

Never was pause. Zach will never take another snap here and could very well never put on a Jets uniform again. He rightfully has been demoted to third string and will not be on the team next year IMO. 

[Sperm Edwards]

On 12/1/2022 at 12:04 PM, football guy said:

My feelings are less rooted in logic and more rooted in pessimism.  We've seen too many instances where a subpar talent comes in, plays well, the fans go bonkers for that player, the organization caves/pays him, the guy falls back to earth, the team underperforms, everyone gets fired. We've also seen many instances where a team makes a significant investment in a QB, the player doesn't develop as hoped, and everyone gets fired. 

?

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, VJphillyfan said:

Ok we get it.  JD giving Wilson a stupid scale contract two years ago means they are forced to not trade him.  Barring an injury to mike white and the FO being stupid enough to not sign a veteran in the offseason like Jimmy G Zach Wilson is never playing another regular season down again for this team.  He’s a horrible bust. And the FO and all the Zach fanboys have egg on their face 

I accept your surrender

[VJphillyfan]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

I accept your surrender

Your hero Zach is wearing pajamas on Sunday next 18 months.  You really nailed that evaluation 

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, VJphillyfan said:

Your hero Zach is wearing pajamas on Sunday next 18 months.  You really nailed that evaluation 

It's ok to be wrong, Phil. 

Pro tip: Before you post, I recommend taking 30 seconds or so to think about what the poster you are replying to is actually arguing. Intelligent discourse requires thought and reflection. 

[Jetsfan80]

9 minutes ago, PS17 said:

Never was pause. Zach will never take another snap here and could very well never put on a Jets uniform again. He rightfully has been demoted to third string and will not be on the team next year IMO. 

* 4th string

[VJphillyfan]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

It's ok to be wrong, Phil. 

Pro tip: Before you post, I recommend taking 30 seconds or so to think about what the poster you are replying to is actually arguing. Intelligent discourse requires thought and reflection. 

You can hold out hope that Zach Wilson will play regular season football next year. He won’t.  This franchise is done with him.  He’s not only a horrible player he’s a spoiled brat.  Manziel if he wasn’t good in college. So you can take your scary good qb evaluation skills and find a better hill to die on like maybe Baker Mayfield might be good again in 5 years

[clayton163v]

16 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

People keep saying this… and it’s not going to happen.   They are not trading Zach in the off-season. 

Zach costs 3.8 million cash next season to keep.  He would be a 20.7 million dead cap hit - 11 million more than keeping him.  
 

He’s not getting traded or dumped unless they see him hurting the locker room in a big way.  
 

I bet they would want to see him in camp 2024 at the very earliest.   

Not to go back and forth on this - I try to avoid the tribe.

You do realize that when you trade the contract there is no salary cap hit?  Correct? 

The only time there is a salary cap hit when you trade the contract is for the pro rated portion of any unpaid signing bonus.  Correct? 

Now if you CUT the player, that causes a salary cap hit.  Remember Trumaine Johnson?  Now that was a salary cap hit!

While I am a Zach detractor, I am also a huge Joe Douglas supporter.  If anybody can trade Zach Wilson's contract and avoid any salary cap issues it is Joe Douglas.  I doubt we will cut Zach Wilson.  Joe will palm him off on somebody.

Giving thanks ahead of time Joe!

So much for the Zach is too expensive to trade argument (for shame, Zach tribe,  for shame).  Really.  You are scraping the barrel bottom now.

As for Zach, the next sticker on his suitcase should read Las Vegas, Denver or Arizona.  Not because of personnel, but because of his value to a slice of America.  It's a business, after all.  Methinks that suitcase will look like a racecar driver before he hangs them up.  Nice clean kid will get lots of chances.  Poor Wally Pip.

[slimjasi]

3 minutes ago, VJphillyfan said:

You can hold out hope that Zach Wilson will play regular season football next year. He won’t.  This franchise is done with him.  He’s not only a horrible player he’s a spoiled brat.  Manziel if he wasn’t good in college. So you can take your scary good qb evaluation skills and find a better hill to die on like maybe Baker Mayfield might be good again in 5 years

Do you actually read words?

[VJphillyfan]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Do you actually read words?

No I read defenses. Much better than your hero Zach Wilson ever did

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, VJphillyfan said:

No I read defenses.