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So much Mike White Disrespect


kevinc855
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2 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Let's assume he plays well the rest of the year,  as a free agent do you give him 28 million a year? Because that is what marginal franchise qbs like cousins get.

How much are YOU really in on Mike White? 

No one is paying Mike White 28 million a year and neither will we. That’s where it gets ever better for us should he perform well down the stretch 

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6 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

No one is paying Mike White 28 million a year and neither will we. That’s where it gets ever better for us should he perform well down the stretch 

Right so the people knocking Mike White are simply saying he isn't good enough to be a franchise qb. You seem to agree since you also have no interest in paying him like a franchise QB. 

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1 hour ago, Reasonable Jets Fan said:

He is Chad Pennington if he can stay healthy

He's got a much stronger arm than Pennington.

The similarity is that - so far with White - the best success has come from short to maybe intermediate throws. But compared to Pennington, White has a rifle.

Pennington had a weak arm. White does not. Is it as strong as Wilson's or any number of successful cannon-armed QBs? No it doesn't seem so, but merely not having an omg cannon doesn't therefore make him Chad Pennington.

As far as a lack of success downfield (and the unsuccessful outing when he tried)? Meh, he's had so few starts it's hard to pigeonhole him for the rest of his life. If one is being equally honest in terms of assessing him vs others, he deserves the benefit of the doubt to grow with experience same as anyone else. 

Honestly I don't even care right now. I'm stoked we presently have a QB to put out there other than Sacco and Wilson. 

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40 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Why? What is your take based on? His draft position?

On what he has done to this point. On his athletic ability. White has a chance to change my mind in the next two weeks. If anything, I am not going to deny what I see, but last time he played the Bills, he was a disaster. If he plays well, I will be all for keeping him at QB. 

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12 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

He's got a much stronger arm than Pennington.

The similarity is that - so far with White - the best success has come from short to maybe intermediate throws. But compared to Pennington, White has a rifle.

Pennington had a weak arm. White does not. Is it as strong as Wilson's or any number of successful cannon-armed QBs? No it doesn't seem so, but merely not having an omg cannon doesn't therefore make him Chad Pennington.

As far as a lack of success downfield (and the unsuccessful outing when he tried)? Meh, he's had so few starts it's hard to pigeonhole him for the rest of his life. If one is being equally honest in terms of assessing him vs others, he deserves the benefit of the doubt to grow with experience same as anyone else. 

Honestly I don't even care right now. I'm stoked we presently have a QB to put out there other than Sacco and Wilson. 

True I was thinking more the quick decision making skills and making the right reads more then arm strength... Pennington was super accurate and Mike White is decently accurate...

I was more or less saying don't expect big throws outside the numbers or offschedule plays. 

But running a playboom efficiently is a skill that white seems to Excell in... I just hope bills don't expose him again. 

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17 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

He's got a much stronger arm than Pennington.

The similarity is that - so far with White - the best success has come from short to maybe intermediate throws. But compared to Pennington, White has a rifle.

Pennington had a weak arm. White does not. Is it as strong as Wilson's or any number of successful cannon-armed QBs? No it doesn't seem so, but merely not having an omg cannon doesn't therefore make him Chad Pennington.

As far as a lack of success downfield (and the unsuccessful outing when he tried)? Meh, he's had so few starts it's hard to pigeonhole him for the rest of his life. If one is being equally honest in terms of assessing him vs others, he deserves the benefit of the doubt to grow with experience same as anyone else. 

Honestly I don't even care right now. I'm stoked we presently have a QB to put out there other than Sacco and Wilson. 

Has Mike White EVER had a throw like this ....

 

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If White wants to covert the less-convinced, he'll need to stack quality play wins, not get hurt, and play consistently well.

While I think anyone who thinks Zach can still be elite but doubts White completely (and I know we have a few of those here) are quite silly, White still has alot to prove.

Hopefully he gets every start the rest of this year to prove it. 

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28 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Right so the people knocking Mike White are simply saying he isn't good enough to be a franchise qb. You seem to agree since you also have no interest in paying him like a franchise QB. 

I'm interested in seeing if White can be a good NFL starter, and want him to start the rest of this year.

I don't think we'll have to pay him 28-35 million a year this offseason to keep him.

Not mutually exclusive thoughts.

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22 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

He's got a much stronger arm than Pennington.

The similarity is that - so far with White - the best success has come from short to maybe intermediate throws. But compared to Pennington, White has a rifle.

Thank you

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All bets are off after yesterdays performance. He's now played 2 really good games in 3 full starts as a starting QB. 

I viewed him as more of a quality backup even after last years game against the Bengals. But when you look at the big picture, he's started 4 games. 2 were great. 1 was bad. And the other was off to a promising start before he got hurt. 

The guy deserves a chance to prove he can be the long term answer for the Jets at QB. 

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3 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Mike White has played in 4 games. 2 of them elite, 1 started well before injury then a stinker against the best defense in the NFL at the time. 

Why is there this assumption by some fans that "White is not the long term answer" He is 27, respected by the team and can manage the team well. He seems capable of making throws into tight windows and avoiding bad mistakes. Is he Pat Mahomes? No, but who is? We scream that rookie QBS needs 2 years to know what you have but we know with Mike White in 4 games? Why? Why can't Mike White get a 20 game evaluation? Because he played for Western Kentucy? They arguablly played tougher games then the 2020 BYU crew. 

I don't get the blatant Mike White disrescpt from the media or fans. Let the kid PROVE he is the long term answer. 

It’s now his job to lose.

I’m sure he’s fine with that.

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56 minutes ago, Warfish said:

If White wants to covert the less-convinced, he'll need to stack quality play wins, not get hurt, and play consistently well.

While I think anyone who thinks Zach can still be elite but doubts White completely (and I know we have a few of those here) are quite silly, White still has alot to prove.

Hopefully he gets every start the rest of this year to prove it. 

Can you imagine this place if Zach had that game yesterday? HaHa, I can't.

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46 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

You are welcome. Pennington had a good arm until his wrist injury that was followed by shoulder issues.

First of all, Pennington injured his left wrist in that preseason game, not his right wrist. IIRC rookie Askew missed the block. Some might even say the rookie FB's blocking on that play was askew. I'd never stoop to such a low comedic level myself, but some might.

He didn't suddenly get a weaker arm beginning in 2006. It was never particularly strong.

Even in this video, the throw is a relative lollipop (not as much as the 40+ yarder he threw to Santana Moss that one time, but it's still no laser). Pennington had his strengths, but one of them was not firing deep outs on a frozen rope. There was an arc to his passes. Now on short stuff or where the coverage is looser, that's a good thing as it's more "catchable" of a pass, as they like to put it, and that (as much as placement at his best) was why his completion percentage wasn't a few ticks lower. But throwing a laser on a rope wasn't his thing, even before any shoulder injuries from 2006 or later.

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3 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Mike White has played in 4 games. 2 of them elite, 1 started well before injury then a stinker against the best defense in the NFL at the time. 

Why is there this assumption by some fans that "White is not the long term answer" He is 27, respected by the team and can manage the team well. He seems capable of making throws into tight windows and avoiding bad mistakes. Is he Pat Mahomes? No, but who is? We scream that rookie QBS needs 2 years to know what you have but we know with Mike White in 4 games? Why? Why can't Mike White get a 20 game evaluation? Because he played for Western Kentucy? They arguablly played tougher games then the 2020 BYU crew. 

I don't get the blatant Mike White disrescpt from the media or fans. Let the kid PROVE he is the long term answer. 

It is his job now.  Mike, "don't look back, something might be gaining on you."

As a long time Mike White fan and pre-draft Zach detractor, I am over the moon at recent events.  When Garrett Wilson exploded during the Pats game at not getting the ball on a quick slant (it's the first read) I too gasped in frustration.  When he lost it after the game with his now famous "this sh*t be sorry", it was such a low point.  I felt like a META stockholder or a passenger on the Titanic. 

Then came the Saleh press conference. 

Then the Mike White starting announcement.

Then the Mike White command performance.   

Talk about a roller coaster. 

Mike White won my respect during his preseason game performances when he first made the team.  From the very beginning you could see that he had a mature game that was ready right away.  I watched him play.

While I hate to compare him (or anyone) to Tom Brady, there are two obvious similarities.  Just as the Jets knocked out their #1 pick Drew Bledsoe to make room for the unheralded Brady.  The Pats returned the favor and knocked our #1 pick Zack Wilson to make room for the unheralded White.  Talk about the cosmic scales of justice.  This - of course - is mere coincidence. 

The second is more telling.  Despite their lowly draft status, both were named the backup quarterback over more experienced (and first round pick) competition.  That is actually a very rare event.  The backup is usually somebody's has been or never was.  Mike White rolled in from the cut pile.  Signed a futures contract and fought his way onto the club.  I am thankful for that.  And for Coach Saleh and Joe Douglas for their never ending quest to get better and younger.

We will be a tough out the rest of the way.  Nobody wants to play us.

 

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I'm interested in seeing if White can be a good NFL starter, and want him to start the rest of this year.

I don't think we'll have to pay him 28-35 million a year this offseason to keep him.

Not mutually exclusive thoughts.

Well his "infinity" level ceiling would be the franchise tag amount (OTC has it projected as $31MM). Even if it's a hair more than a longer-term contract, if the latter comes with >1 yr guaranteed then it may be worth a few million extra risk to not potentially get locked into another $25-30MM in 2024 if he comes back down to earth (or proves himself just too fragile). 

Otherwise I agree completely. Stoked to see what else he can do. Yeah sure he had lots of benefits vs. Chicago, who sucked even before that D got depleted further, but he can't control that. He's facing some much stingier Ds in the coming weeks, so we'll see how that pans out.

What's good is the evaluation shouldn't go right into the crapper with another '22-Jets OT injury, as Fant should be back to playable if they need him to step in for Brown or Mitchell, and they have a full + healthy arsenal of receivers. No he doesn't have Hall, and it looks like he may not have Carter either, but it's less of a concern. If the holes are there these guys don't trip on their own feet & don't look like they're running in 3' of water.

Plus the team is really responding to the spark he's brought. They play better that way; especially WRs who know there's not a 1 in 10 chance the ball's actually getting thrown their way but still have to run out every play full speed. Sucks being a decoy when they know they can be so much more. Hell, I even saw Moore give a downfield block instead of his previous "meh f*ckit, the ball didn't go to me" routine. 

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1 hour ago, kevinc855 said:

You don’t need to next year. Give him a multiple year cheap deal. If he pans out it’s like you stole a qb 

If he signs it. He might not want to get locked in to the Jets from age 28-30 (or more) if it's only at backup/reserve QB2-3 money. 

I take for granted that, at this point, any extension they get for "cheap" will necessarily come with significant incentives if he's the starter. They're not getting him to be the presumed starter for under $10MM/yr. Not if he finishes out the season with nearly the success he just had vs. Chicago's crap D. 

He's a UFA after the season and the only real control the team has is the ability to franchise tag him in the $31MM range. The only way to get him for less is to offer him an extension now, which protects the player from getting injured before the season ends (which would, in turn, lower his value in FA).

I don't see him locking himself in for some crazy-cheap amount (though in fairness, I don't know what you consider "cheap" in this scenario). $15MM/yr is cheap. $5MM is crazy-cheap. It's possible they could get him for the former, if incentives could bring it up further, but he's got no reason to lock himself into the latter. So also don't kick JD too hard for not locking him up before this point; it's doubtful White would've signed it, since he'd have been signing a paper that says he's ok with being a QB2 forever. He's 27 and wants to start.

jmo

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His arm is plenty strong enough. Topped 90mph when he was a pitcher, clearly has some zip. It's' not elite, but doesn't have to be. Post-shoulder Brees, pre-shoulder Chad,  later-career Manning, early-career Brady, yet somehow not late-career Brady (go figure), Joe Montana off the top of my head. All those guys have one thing in common, they're football IQ is high and they get the ball out early. Your arm is going to look a lot better when you throw the ball before the receiver is open. Fitting a ball into a tight window usually is someone making a late decision, more often than not. Unless you're one of the all-time greats who throw with anticipation and also have an elite arm; Rodgers, Mahomes, Favre, Vick etc. If Mike White stays upright, I see absolutely no reason he couldn't be the future. He's 27 and he gets it. 

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32 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Can you imagine this place if Zach had that game yesterday? HaHa, I can't.

No doubt.

But fair is fair.  Not being hyperbolic about Zach means we shouldn't be hyperbolic about White.

White is clearly the better performer right now, the numbers speak for themselves rather loudly.

But for White's future here, that is a story as yet to be told.  It does take more than one game to tell it.  

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12 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Well his "infinity" level ceiling would be the franchise tag amount (OTC has it projected as $31MM). Even if it's a hair more than a longer-term contract, if the latter comes with >1 yr guaranteed then it may be worth a few million extra risk to not potentially get locked into another $25-30MM in 2024 if he comes back down to earth (or proves himself just too fragile). 

Otherwise I agree completely. Stoked to see what else he can do. Yeah sure he had lots of benefits vs. Chicago, who sucked even before that D got depleted further, but he can't control that. He's facing some much stingier Ds in the coming weeks, so we'll see how that pans out.

What's good is the evaluation shouldn't go right into the crapper with another '22-Jets OT injury, as Fant should be back to playable if they need him to step in for Brown or Mitchell, and they have a full + healthy arsenal of receivers. No he doesn't have Hall, and it looks like he may not have Carter either, but it's less of a concern. If the holes are there these guys don't trip on their own feet & don't look like they're running in 3' of water.

Plus the team is really responding to the spark he's brought. They play better that way; especially WRs who know there's not a 1 in 10 chance the ball's actually getting thrown their way but still have to run out every play full speed. Sucks being a decoy when they know they can be so much more. Hell, I even saw Moore give a downfield block instead of his previous "meh f*ckit, the ball didn't go to me" routine. 

+1

JD really does deserve some credit for the way he's managed the depth of this roster, especially given where we started.

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4 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Mike White has played in 4 games. 2 of them elite, 1 started well before injury then a stinker against the best defense in the NFL at the time. 

Why is there this assumption by some fans that "White is not the long term answer" He is 27, respected by the team and can manage the team well. He seems capable of making throws into tight windows and avoiding bad mistakes. Is he Pat Mahomes? No, but who is? We scream that rookie QBS needs 2 years to know what you have but we know with Mike White in 4 games? Why? Why can't Mike White get a 20 game evaluation? Because he played for Western Kentucy? They arguablly played tougher games then the 2020 BYU crew. 

I don't get the blatant Mike White disrescpt from the media or fans. Let the kid PROVE he is the long term answer. 

He has this season to prove it. 

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4 hours ago, Flashlite80 said:

I was at the game and White was impressive.  He has his chance to show he is more than a backup.  He certainly looked like a starter yesterday.  Just a sobering note.  Mike White looked awful in the exhibition games.  I know they are not the best measure, but Streveler clearly outplayed him in all three games.

This is a great opportunity for White and he looks far better prepared to lead this team right now.

As far as disrespect, I don't know how much you could hear.   The stadium was loud and chanting "MIKE WHITE" form the beginning.  I can't remember a quarterback getting more verbal support from a Jet crowd and have been there 25 years.   It was electric and White heard the chants.

I don't know if Mike White is more than a solid #2.  I do know he is very quick in his read and lightning quick in delivering the ball.  His balls are on target and on time, giving lots of YAC opportunity.    Here's hoping he carves up the Vikings and then the Bills.  Then we can talk about who he is.  Personally, I am rooting for him.  He delivers a crisp game and sees the entire field and every potential target.  The offense was the best I have seen in 4-5 years, with the exception of last year's Bengals game.

Great post!  Everyone loves an underdog story and the guy has some real strengths as a QB and leader.  Also an easy personality to root for.

I (fairly) recently believed you needed a franchise (aka elite) QB to win the Super Bowl.  But with the explosion in QB contracts I now see 2 paths and am beginning to like path 2 more for the simple fact that it is SO hard to find a true franchise QB and the risk is SO great putting your eggs into this basket (see Broncos & Browns).

1. Draft or trade for a franchise QB.  The former is less costly but is no more than a coin flip chance of success (if that) even at the top of the first round.  Often takes years to develop or to eventually admit failure.

2. Find a starting caliber QB whose strengths fit your system and whose weaknesses can be minimized by better surrounding talent.  There is a reason why WR s are starting to get PAID.  They often elevate the QB in the same way the QB elevates them.  Recognizing this, draft WRs and OL early in order to build your offense and maximize a capable but not independently dominant QB.

The Jets started on path 1 with Wilson but might see that path 2 is the better path for this team.

OK- let’s say Mike White doesn’t have a cannon.  Draft WRs who can create separation. That solves this weakness and optimizes his strength as a quick & accurate distributor of the football.  YAC

So if White shows out the rest of the year, draft WR in round 1 and OL in round 2 and let’s go compete for a Super Bowl.

 

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29 minutes ago, Warfish said:

+1

JD really does deserve some credit for the way he's managed the depth of this roster, especially given where we started.

Yeah I think once the "mentor" veteran was re-signed, my guess is few GMs would've also still kept White for another $2.5MM for the year as the QB3. 

Easy to say in hindsight, but especially with all the veterans he had to backload - including backloading Mosley by a whopping amount - it's mere convenience to think most would've done the same thing. My guess is the opposite; that most would've seen that as an unnecessary expense once Flacco was re-upped. Had White not seen the field this year he'd have been killed for such a gross waste of cap space. 

Like, no one pays a QB3 that much money; yet here we are, thrilled that he did.

Ditto taking over Herbig's RFA tender when the team was so locked in to Tomlinson & AVT at the guard positions.

Credit where it's due & such.

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5 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Mike White has played in 4 games. 2 of them elite, 1 started well before injury then a stinker against the best defense in the NFL at the time. 

Why is there this assumption by some fans that "White is not the long term answer" He is 27, respected by the team and can manage the team well. He seems capable of making throws into tight windows and avoiding bad mistakes. Is he Pat Mahomes? No, but who is? We scream that rookie QBS needs 2 years to know what you have but we know with Mike White in 4 games? Why? Why can't Mike White get a 20 game evaluation? Because he played for Western Kentucy? They arguablly played tougher games then the 2020 BYU crew. 

I don't get the blatant Mike White disrescpt from the media or fans. Let the kid PROVE he is the long term answer. 

The way he gets disrespected, you would think that he was the no. 1 overall and throws 4 picks per game every time he plays

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4 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Great post!  Everyone loves an underdog story and the guy has some real strengths as a QB and leader.  Also an easy personality to root for.

I (fairly) recently believed you needed a franchise (aka elite) QB to win the Super Bowl.  But with the explosion in QB contracts I now see 2 paths and am beginning to like path 2 more for the simple fact that it is SO hard to find a true franchise QB and the risk is SO great putting your eggs into this basket (see Broncos & Browns).

1. Draft or trade for a franchise QB.  The former is less costly but is no more than a coin flip chance of success (if that) even at the top of the first round.  Often takes years to develop or to eventually admit failure.

2. Find a starting caliber QB whose strengths fit your system and whose weaknesses can be minimized by better surrounding talent.  There is a reason why WR s are starting to get PAID.  They often elevate the QB in the same way the QB elevates them.  Recognizing this, draft WRs and OL early in order to build your offense and maximize a capable but not independently dominant QB.

The Jets started on path 1 with Wilson but might see that path 2 is the better path for this team.

OK- let’s say Mike White doesn’t have a cannon.  Draft WRs who can create separation. That solves this weakness and optimizes his strength as a quick & accurate distributor of the football.  YAC

So if White shows out the rest of the year, draft WR in round 1 and OL in round 2 and let’s go compete for a Super Bowl.

 

White is the perfect system QB or the Shanahan offense.  Above average ball handling and perfect form, he is a master of the play action fake and works hard to keep the defense guessing.  Note, none of that is throwing the ball downfield.  If you tried to draw up the perfect system player, he would look a lot like Mike behind the line of scrimmage. 

I like your recipe but would reverse.  The only quality OTs this year are gone by the early 2d imo.  Centers and guards will be available in the 3d and 4th.  There is a decent crop there.

The wideouts have a nice top and a decent 2d round.  I would look OT or DT in the 1st, perhaps after a trade back if things do not go our way.  A WR in the 2d, perhaps a trade up to make sure we get one.  Then a center in the 3d and a LB in the 4th.   It is a good draft for centers and I like O'Cyrus Torrance at Guard.  

As for QB, if Mike White keeps it up - and I firmly believe he will - then we will have to unload Zach during the offseason and draft a QB.  Personally, I like KJ Jefferson.  He has both of the qualities I value in a college QB.  He is CHEAP (likely 5th or 6th round) and he does not have to throw the ball to be effective in his own way.  Running QBs are well worth training.  His skill set appears as good as Richardson's but without the late 1st pricetag.    I love Hooker but we need to add young depth, not a starter.  I do love him though.  I also like Cameron Ward.  He is a lot like Mike White imo.   A careful system passer with a mature game.  I expect him to go for a 5th or 6th.  I would replace Flacco with a younger veteran too.  The fine play from Mike White has convinced me that it is time for a new QB room. 

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1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Can you imagine this place if Zach had that game yesterday? HaHa, I can't.

If he did I'd be happy as hell Sal, I certainly wouldn't be posting stupid Sh!te about some coin hoping that he would lose. But I have to be honest I had reached a point with Zach Wilson's performance, or lack there of, on the football field where I could see he was hurting the team. Players were clearly disgusted being forced to run around all game (again) and never even seeing a ball close to them. For me it had devolved to the point where I said the only way to get him off the field, was for him had to get hurt. Not my shining moment in sports fandom. But for this lifelongJets fan, that's what it had spiraled down to. I'm glad it didn't happen and to my brethren here, I apologize for being a JERK.

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