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What holds back the Mike White's of the league from being legit?


Zachtomims47
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Was thinking, what's stopping productive back ups like White and say, Jacoby Brisset from taking hold of their team and being a long term starter? or the Nick Folks of the world.  What are they lacking that even though winning, people say they can't be a long term starter. Is it just consistency? Can only win a handful of games? 

Even if Mike White went out and led the Jets to the playoffs with good stats, there would still be pause on naming him the starter next year. 

What gives? 

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10 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Was thinking, what's stopping productive back ups like White and say, Jacoby Brisset from taking hold of their team and being a long term starter? or the Nick Folks of the world.  What are they lacking that even though winning, people say they can't be a long term starter. Is it just consistency? Can only win a handful of games? 

Even if Mike White went out and led the Jets to the playoffs with good stats, there would still be pause on naming him the starter next year. 

What gives? 

In the NFL every team has bad games. The great ones can overcome those bad games and still win despite others around them not playing well. The perception is that guys like Mike White, Tyler Heinikie, even Ryan Tanehill/Kirk Cousins can’t do that.

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12 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Mike White is a part of a team, Mahomes is the team

 Everyone wants that elite player. 

 

3 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

In the NFL every team has bad games. The great ones can overcome those bad games and still win despite others around them not playing well. The perception is that guys like Mike White, Tyler Heinikie, even Ryan Tanehill/Kirk Cousins can’t do that.

Mahommes is rare. And one of a kind.

And very rarely does a QB alone elevate the entire offense around him. Almost every other QB needs the parts around him to be successful.  

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I think consistency, especially against upper echelon defenses. 

Then it becomes arm talent + athletic ability. Can you carry the team for a win if need be? Can you come from behind and pull out a win?

I mean that's what separates good from great...but great at QB is rare and if you have good, you take that and build a complete team.

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Specific for Mike White, it comes down to opportunity. Not being drafted on day 1 or 2 limits your opportunity.

Mike White looked good to me. He has a strong/accurate arm and makes good decisions. Based on yesterday, he knows when to push it down field and when to take the easy throw. His super power is that he makes quick decisions. He has the ability to be a franchise QB.

Everyone wants Mahomes/Rodgers. Those guys are rare. Plus, 95% time, the best play doesn't come unscripted.

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Can they show consistently controlling the position during the week and win games at the end of the week? Those are the big factors. 

My suspicion is White didn't look half as good in camp as some think which is why Saleh went with old reliable the first three games. Seems he improved over the season to take over the #2 slot. 

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You have to love what he did yesterday but his draft status (5th round), the fact he
was cut (DAL) and that he's been a backup all make people skeptical.  All of that is
fair, he needs to take advantge of this opportunity and be consistent against tougher
competition to be taken seriously.  Cousins did it in WSH when RG3 was the "chosen one",
can White do the same?

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1 hour ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Was thinking, what's stopping productive back ups like White and say, Jacoby Brisset from taking hold of their team and being a long term starter? or the Nick Folks of the world.  What are they lacking that even though winning, people say they can't be a long term starter. Is it just consistency? Can only win a handful of games? 

Even if Mike White went out and led the Jets to the playoffs with good stats, there would still be pause on naming him the starter next year. 

What gives? 

ability to complete passes against a good pass rush.  looks good vs the bears that have a poor pass rush and even worse covering pass catchers.  

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My feeling is if MW balls out and gets them in playoffs then he definitely has earned at least being part of the discussion next year. For the most part ( mainly because we haven’t had meaningful football to root for this late in the year) I’d prefer to worry about what happens next year in the off season - not right now. 
 

Let’s go!!

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51 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Mike White is a part of a team, Mahomes is the team

 Everyone wants that elite player. 

To this point, I think a lot of teams just aren’t that good.  They don’t have defenses or run games to support lackluster QB play for extended periods of time, and so instead of improving the other aspects of the team, they just foolishly plunge themselves into a futile game of musical QBs, rarely improving things for the new QB in town.  i.e. Indy, Den, Car, Hou, Was (in recent years)

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Everyone falls in love with potential and wants a guy that can elevate the team around him. Mike White is a subpar athlete relative to the position and is not really suited to get balls into windows with high velocity or attack the deep 3rd of the field. So the perceived limitations make people discredit his performance on the field.

That being said, he plays QB very efficiently in this system and is great in this system that has dynamic playmakers who all can beat man coverage at a high rate and are YAC monsters. Because we have players around it, Mike White can thrive and have elite QB performance.

Come playoff time, we may face limitations on trying to do what Josh Allen and Maholmes did last year or just generally competing with a high-powered offense. But honestly, I'd sign up for that all day today.

 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

To this point, I think a lot of teams just aren’t that good.  They don’t have defenses or run games to support lackluster QB play for extended periods of time, and so instead of improving the other aspects of the team, they just foolishly plunge themselves into a futile game of musical QBs, rarely improving things for the new QB in town.  i.e. Indy, Den, Car, Hou, Was (in recent years)

Washington  seems to have solved its QB issue for the short term at least

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This year, there are 2 Elite level QB's right now that are capable of super human QB play and that's Allen and Mahomes. Fans all want this guy and judge all QBs against this level of play, which is unrealistic. Then there's a gap. 

Then there are about 12 guys all lumped together and what separates them is the quality of the team they're playing with. A guy like Jimmy G with 68% comp, 16 tds and 4 int is very high on that 2nd group.  He's 39-17 as a starting QB, he wins a lot. I think that's what Mike White can be in this offense. High comp percentage and a good TD- Int ratio. Just like Jimmy G he's not going to put the team on his back and win it by himself. He is going to need playmakers around him to make him successful. That's why you saw them aggressively add CMC at the deadline. 

The reason people are in love with Wilson is bc he has some similar traits to elite QBs, the arm and athleticism are the two that people use to hold onto hope. Unfortunately, he doesn't have the football IQ, processing speed, situational awareness or accuracy to make those other elite traits worth a damn. It's the same reason why a team like the 49ers would try to replace Jimmy G with Trey Lance. They're chasing that Elite skill set. 

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7 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Everyone falls in love with potential and wants a guy that can elevate the team around him. Mike White is a subpar athlete relative to the position and is not really suited to get balls into windows with high velocity or attack the deep 3rd of the field. So the perceived limitations make people discredit his performance on the field.

That being said, he plays QB very efficiently in this system and is great in this system that has dynamic playmakers who all can beat man coverage at a high rate and are YAC monsters. Because we have players around it, Mike White can thrive and have elite QB performance.

Come playoff time, we may face limitations on trying to do what Josh Allen and Maholmes did last year or just generally competing with a high-powered offense. But honestly, I'd sign up for that all day today.

We've never seen him complete a pass longer than 30 yards I think. So that would be one thing to look out for. Can he make a big play when needed, if it's there. But hey, sometimes you just don't have to. Take what's given to you. 

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If you do not have draft pedigree you get a much shorter leash.  A lot of these type of QBS cannot sustain their short term success.  Some of them can (Warner, Romo) 

Why did White get shuffled aside after his first big success in this league?  He followed up his record setting performance with a 4 int game and had 4 tds and 8 ints over his little audition.

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There is nothing holding him back from being "legit"

Middle round picks like Mike White need to build a body of work like he has started to compile before they can get the respect.

Its been done many times so if he can keep this up he has a chance to alter the perceptions.

If Mike White had ZW's stats he would be gone already.

 

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4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

If you do not have draft pedigree you get a much shorter leash.  A lot of these type of QBS cannot sustain their short term success.  Some of them can (Warner, Romo) 

Why did White get shuffled aside after his first big success in this league?  He followed up his record setting performance with a 4 int game and had 4 tds and 8 ints over his little audition.

Yes Warner, Romo but you left out you know who plus the high pick gets an elongated audition.

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1 hour ago, k-met57 said:

In the NFL every team has bad games. The great ones can overcome those bad games and still win despite others around them not playing well. The perception is that guys like Mike White, Tyler Heinikie, even Ryan Tanehill/Kirk Cousins can’t do that.

There’s never more than 2 or 3 great ones at any given time. Never compromise your team trying to land one of those rare birds.

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9 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

If you do not have draft pedigree you get a much shorter leash.  A lot of these type of QBS cannot sustain their short term success.  Some of them can (Warner, Romo) 

Why did White get shuffled aside after his first big success in this league?  He followed up his record setting performance with a 4 int game and had 4 tds and 8 ints over his little audition.

He also got knocked out of 2 games, IIRC.  He's got to stay on the field for more than just a couple of weeks at at time.  Hopefully he can this time!

 

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2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

ZW has the "higher ceiling" (due to physical skills) but MW is the one producing on the field.


“Just as high ceilings are meaningless without a stout foundation, so too are profound statements without an Internet to share them with.”
 

- text from Michael White, QB1 of the NY Jets, to ‘sackdance’ at 12:57pm yesterday.

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The NFL hasn't truly figured out how to pay non elite quarterbacks. Mike White right now is playing on a team built around a quarterback on a rookie contract. The Jets are spending like $14M on quarterbacks this year.

The mid tier guys are like Kirk Cousins making $30M and Derek Carr making $40M. It's a pretty dramatic difference and it impacts how you can build a team. And their teams are okay, but Jared Goff and Carson Wentz were great on rookie deals and not good enough for that to carry over when they got paid. Even the Jets had Mark Sanchez playing at a functional level on his rookie deal - good enough for back to back AFCCG appearances - and that went away when the roster got less loaded because he got paid.

Finding the line between whether a guy can win when you're spending 15-20% of your cap on him versus under 10% is tough. Easy enough for someone like Mahomes. Harder for the Cousins and Carr tier where those guys aren't obvious freaks. That's probably where White would fall if things are really rolling.

Ultimately we've seen guys who have it click when they're a little older. Kurt Warner and Rich Gannon come to mind. Brees made a big jump when he got to New Orleans around the age White is now. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility White gets to that mid tier and is solid enough for the team to be good while he's making $30M or so. He also had a couple turnover worthy throws yesterday, as much of a blast I had watching watching him, and we've seen the wheels come off. I think it's good they're giving him a few games to see what they have.

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