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What Vet QB do we think best 2023 fit


SouthernJet
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34 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

49ers don't even like graoppolo. You are suggesting getting a terrible qb to replace a guy who throws for tds and 300 yards a game. Crazy bro. You're crazy

Give your brain a chance, man.  

Mike White is a third string QB for a reason.  Most if not all third string QB's would have had a good game against the defense the Bears were fielding considering there were good pass catchers on the field for the Jets.

Wait for your man Mike White to face a good NFL defense and you'll see what many already know.  

What I can say about Mike White is that even he is a big step up from Dennis The Menace and he is a very nice back-up QB.  Against a good NFL defense, Garoppolo will be decent and Mike White will struggle.  

 

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TO ME, if you have an opportunity to get Carr without giving up TOO much draft capital- you have to go for it. The thinking is that the Raiders stink it up, get a high draft pick and take a QB. I'm assuming a 1st rounder WILL be involved. Probably more. 

He is just the best combination of top QB talent, potential availability and age (youth). 

Some other options to consider- none as good as getting Carr, IMO:

Rodgers: Would immediately make us contenders. But only for a small window and his skills are clearly declining. He would also cost draft picks as we could only get him via trade.  

Brady: Same as above. He is ancient though. Except, he is a FA. It would be CRAZY if Brady was the Jets QB and led us to a SB. But this makes a ton of sense- even though it would NEVER happen and he can go kick rocks. 

Jackson: He will be locked up by the Ravens immediately.

D.Jones: He will be locked up by the Giants. 

Geno: He will be locked up by the Hawks. 

Jimmy G: Another option that makes a ton of sense. He is not the same caliber of QB that Carr is. But at least the Jets save draft capital. 

Minshew: Not nearly the same caliber of QB as Carr. If the Jets want to truly take a HR swing, this would not be the move. 

Brissett: Same as above. This move would stink of mediocrity. If the Jets want to win a SB, Brissett aint the guy. 

I'll throw one more guy in there-- Tannenhill: Odd are the Titans have no interest in moving him. But if they decide its Malik Willis time after an early playoff exit (or catastrophic collapse down the stretch). The Jets could trade for him. Much like Minshew or Brissett, he's not the same caliber of QB that Carr is, but he would be a good fit. 

*Sidenote: As you can probably tell from the above, anointing Mike White as the starter for 2023 (even if he plays well down the stretch), is not the best idea, IMO. He would have to really show a lot. He would not only have to get the Jets into the playoffs but do it with great play and the Jets would need to make some noise, getting out of the first round, etc. Why such high standards? Well, turns out this is a SB caliber team with a the right talent at QB. And JD needs to do EVERYTHING he can to get the best talent at the QB position for another big run in 2023.  

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The funny thing is that we heard Zach needed the full season to evaluate him ..  but we’ve seen first hand that continuing to throw him out there has only made him worse (yes, he is worse than last year). 

The reality has become Mike (feels so) White needs the rest of the season to fully evaluate him.  

I truly believe he MIGHT be THE GUY, but ask me at the end of the season.

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16 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Mike White is a third string QB for a reason.

Zach is our third string.  White is our starter.

16 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

  Most if not all third string QB's would have had a good game against the defense the Bears were fielding considering there were good pass catchers on the field for the Jets.

Easy to say, impossible to prove.

16 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Wait for your man Mike White to face a good NFL defense and you'll see what many already know.  

Is it ok if I just hope that White can smoke the 21st/31st (points/yards) Minny Defense this week?

16 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

What I can say about Mike White is that even he is a big step up from Dennis The Menace and he is a very nice back-up QB.  Against a good NFL defense, Garoppolo will be decent and Mike White will struggle.  

Hopefully we have all of the rest of 2022 to see how true that claim is.

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Just now, PepPep said:

TO ME, if you have an opportunity to get Carr without giving up TOO much draft capital- you have to go for it. The thinking is that the Raiders stink it up, get a high draft pick and take a QB. I'm assuming a 1st rounder WILL be involved. Probably more. 

He is just the best combination of top QB talent, potential availability and age (youth). 

Some other options to consider- none as good as getting Carr, IMO:

Rodgers: Would immediately make us contenders. But only for a small window and his skills are clearly declining. He would also cost draft picks as we could only get him via trade.  

Brady: Same as above. He is ancient though. Except, he is a FA. It would be CRAZY if Brady was the Jets QB and led us to a SB. But this makes a ton of sense- even though it would NEVER happen and he can go kick rocks. 

Jackson: He will be locked up by the Ravens immediately.

D.Jones: He will be locked up by the Giants. 

Geno: He will be locked up by the Hawks. 

Jimmy G: Another option that makes a ton of sense. He is not the same caliber of QB that Carr is. But at least the Jets save draft capital. 

Minshew: Not nearly the same caliber of QB as Carr. If the Jets want to truly take a HR swing, this would not be the move. 

Brissett: Same as above. This move would stink of mediocrity. If the Jets want to win a SB, Brissett aint the guy. 

I'll throw one more guy in there-- Tannenhill: Odd are the Titans have no interest in moving him. But if they decide its Malik Willis time after an early playoff exit (or catastrophic collapse down the stretch). The Jets could trade for him. Much like Minshew or Brissett, he's not the same caliber of QB that Carr is, but he would be a good fit. 

*Sidenote: As you can probably tell from the above, anointing Mike White as the starter for 2023 (even if he plays well down the stretch), is not the best idea, IMO. He would have to really show a lot. He would not only have to get the Jets into the playoffs but do it with great play and the Jets would need to make some noise, getting out of the first round, etc. Why such high standards? Well, turns out this is a SB caliber team with a the right talent at QB. And JD needs to do EVERYTHING he can to get the best talent at the QB position for another big run in 2023.  

What is with the Derek Carr love? He'll be 32 next season. This will be his 7th season finishing .500 or lower (he was .500 once) and he has won more than 8 games only twice in his career.  More importantly, he ain't going nowhere.  He just signed a new contract after convincing his team to trade for his college roommate. 

Look at where JD come from -- Baltimore and Philadelphia. Signing a high profile, high priced veteran starting QB is not part of the plan. 

 

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13 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Minshew: Not nearly the same caliber of QB as Carr. If the Jets want to truly take a HR swing, this would not be the move. 

JMO, but I don't want the Jets to "take a HR swing" at QB for 2023.

I want to see them keep White, sign Minshew, dump Flacco and maybe retain Zach to develop him another year.

White and Minshew will cost money, but not close to what a "HR swing" QB would.  

And I then spend the saved cap space/money of continuing to improve our O-line and Defense.  

Same in the draft.  More O-line.  More Defense now. 

White/Minshew/Zach at QB

Hall/Carter/Knight at RB

Wilson/Moore/Mims/Berrios/Draft Pick at WR

Uzomah/Conklin/Ruckert at TE.

And more and better O-line and Defense.

That is a possible route to success IMO. 

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TB12.  Look at his words here:

https://nypost.com/2022/11/29/tom-brady-rails-against-bs-excuses-after-buccaneers-loss-to-browns/

“Well, I think it’s a consistency for, you know, so many positive plays and then undone by kind of untimely mistakes by our team,” he said. “And it’s not one player, it’s not one position. Football’s the ultimate team sport and I’ve always believed as a leader you always take the blame and you always give the credit. And that’s just, I always feel like that because really that’s what leadership is all about. I always look at what I need to do better.

“I had a chance to hit Mike [Evans] down the sideline in overtime to win the game and I didn’t get it done. … You can give in to the outside noise and everyone telling you, ‘Oh, it’s not your fault, it’s someone else’s fault.’ I think that’s BS. It is your fault when you lose and you take it personally when you lose. And you shouldn’t sleep at night when you lose. And you should only think about what you need to do to help the team more. And that’s what I lay in bed at night after games thinking about.”

“It’s a tough situation to be in, have a losing record, but that’s our reality and we haven’t done anything to earn more than that,” he said. “And if you wanna win games, if you wanna win a fight, if you wanna win a golf match, if you want to win your Monopoly [game], you gotta earn it. No one’s gonna hand it to you. You gotta go out there every day and try to earn it through the process of improvement.”

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12 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Zach is our third string.  White is our starter.

Easy to say, impossible to prove.

Is it ok if I just hope that White can smoke the 21st/31st (points/yards) Minny Defense this week?

Hopefully we have all of the rest of 2022 to see how true that claim is.

You may hope.  Let's see how MFW handles the Beefalo defense.  There is your pudding and your proof 

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15 hours ago, SouthernJet said:

I was told to resubmit this topic many weeks ago if I took a word out. so here goes

 

 

OK, so no Zach in 2023 with this wildcard capable team.

Cant afford to draft a QB high enough to start as that means bad record during initial phase until they get better or show they cant lead a RB on a dumpoff pass out of backfield LOL.

Bellys 2nd half gameplan to knock Garrett down at LOS was a insult to Jets cause he said "your QB cant get to his 2nd read without panic and curlyQ spin move and run 15 yards backwards". He moved up in pocket (like you are supposed to) and threw a laser TD. They need a laser sensor on his ass and zap him everytime he doesnt move in the pocket instead of bailing)

What folks dont realize is we will lose our great young corps of players to free agency in a few years if we dont start being meaningful in December and winning games when we have to throw over 15 times a game.

ONLY way for us to be playoff capable is to trade for a Vet QB that can think on field and lead WRs to attain YAC which is type of players Douglas acquired. I dont mid a 4th roundish "lets mold guy" QB pick (especially if Vet QB is pretty old. No Flacco, his years are showing on arm and legs)

A calm, smart Vet QB would be able to manage this excellent D and young Twitch kiddie corps to playoffs.

Who we get, not sure, but  would trust Carr (McDaniels once again destroys a teams O) and Minshew (low INT rate) and even Marriotta (stays calm)  over Zach 'Run for the Hills my Primary WR fell down' Wilson any day with the D and talent we have.

If we go down toilet with Zach say goodbye to all these young kids when they free agents cause sick of losing solely due to poor on field IQ and lack of throwing a YAC friendly ball. Also adios to any potential stud free agents coming here.

So who? Maybe anyone who approaches game a tad more calmly. Maybe White is next Kurt Warner story

 

“2023 wildcard capable team?”

If White is as good a fit in this offense as some believe he is AND shows himself to be simply an average starting QB, the the 2023 Jets become legitimate Super Bowl contenders.  Just grab a first round WR and second round OL, upgrade FS and build LB & DT depth.  

Before anyone jumps on me, Super Bowl contenders … not favorites.

Heck- let’s make a run this year.


 

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The idea that JD is going to go out and spend FA $ and draft picks on a Carr or Garappolo is ludicrous. He is not doing that. He would have to tear apart the team to do that and he values FA more than anything.

We might sign a 2rd tier veteran type but the QB next year is close to 100% to be either White or Zach. 

I could see them kicking the tires on Minshew or Geno, but Geno barring an epic collapse probably gets tagged and would we bring him back anyway?

Minshew probably finds a better situation than us,

Reality is we will roll with either White or Zach next year. People do not want to hear it but it is the truth

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We don’t have to answer this now.  A better choice could be made at the end of the year.  We have yet to see how the white/Wilson saga plays out, amongst the candidates there may be contract extensions or injuries.  As of today don’t most all of us hope that Mike White makes this moot.  We’re picking up some swells now let’s enjoy the ride in.  

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14 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

What is with the Derek Carr love? He'll be 32 next season. This will be his 7th season finishing .500 or lower (he was .500 once) and he has won more than 8 games only twice in his career.  More importantly, he ain't going nowhere.  He just signed a new contract after convincing his team to trade for his college roommate. 

Look at where JD come from -- Baltimore and Philadelphia. Signing a high profile, high priced veteran starting QB is not part of the plan. 

 

Personally, its not about the Wins and Losses with Carr.

Yes, I may have overstated his age, he is not that young- but younger than Brady and Rodgers. But I look at his numbers. He is a very good passer. He threw for over 3,000 yards his first 4 years in the league with over 20TDs. He continued with 4 consecutive seasons throwing for over 4,000 yrds. This year he is on pace to throw for over 3,000yrds again in what seems like an off year for him.

He would make this offense great with the weapons we have. I compare him to Stafford, who is a great passer but lost a ton of games with the Lions- only to come to a team with a legit defense and propel them to a SB. 

As far as WHY LV may trade him? I already said, they are 4-7 and have a brutal schedule to finish off the season. My guess is they will have the third or fourth pick in the draft (maybe behind the Broncos and Texans) and will have the opportunity to draft a stud QB.

They have a potential out with Carr in 2023 where he only has about $5.6mil in dead cap. I may be wrong, but I believe that means this is the first year they would not have to deal with massive dead cap if they traded him.

The Raiders have been bad for a while and IMO its NOT because of Carr. Sometimes, however, its just time for a reset, and he needs a change of scenery.   

And while I understand that JD's roots come from Baltimore and Philadelphia, I would not pigeonhole him. If he feels like this team is ready to win now and all its missing is a top tier QB, he won't hesitate to do what it takes to bring one in- via FA, trade, whatever. JMHO.   

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38 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

The idea that JD is going to go out and spend FA $ and draft picks on a Carr or Garappolo is ludicrous. He is not doing that. He would have to tear apart the team to do that and he values FA more than anything.

We might sign a 2rd tier veteran type but the QB next year is close to 100% to be either White or Zach. 

I could see them kicking the tires on Minshew or Geno, but Geno barring an epic collapse probably gets tagged and would we bring him back anyway?

Minshew probably finds a better situation than us,

Reality is we will roll with either White or Zach next year. People do not want to hear it but it is the truth

I mean, maybe. But JD can clear enough cap for Carr or Jimmy G while keeping the rest of this team together. So I wouldn't say it's 'ludicrous'. Like, it would NOT 'tear apart the team' as you put it. 

I think people are underestimating JD. He wants to win. Badly. I think he is willing to take these types of risks. We've seen him take risks in FA and the draft. Why not this? The QB room stinks. White is not the answer. Zach looks like a bust. Something has to be done and JD cannot sit on his hands or bring in a vet QB who will barely move the needle. 

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20 minutes ago, PepPep said:

And while I understand that JD's roots come from Baltimore and Philadelphia, I would not pigeonhole him. If he feels like this team is ready to win now and all its missing is a top tier QB, he won't hesitate to do what it takes to bring one in- via FA, trade, whatever. JMHO.   

I don't understand why people want to pigeonhole the guy either. Look how close he was to pulling the trigger on a massive trade for Tyreek. He knows our window is opening, and we've seen they aren't attaching their wagon to anybody on a sinking ship(Zach).......if the opportunity presents itself to take a Rams type leap to upgrade at QB and go for it he'll do it....

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1 hour ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

“2023 wildcard capable team?”

If White is as good a fit in this offense as some believe he is AND shows himself to be simply an average starting QB, the the 2023 Jets become legitimate Super Bowl contenders.  Just grab a first round WR and second round OL, upgrade FS and build LB & DT depth.  

Before anyone jumps on me, Super Bowl contenders … not favorites.

Heck- let’s make a run this year.


 

do we really need another first round WR?

 

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2 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

49ers don't even like graoppolo. You are suggesting getting a terrible qb to replace a guy who throws for tds and 300 yards a game. Crazy bro. You're crazy

Every time I’ve watched Jimmy G (only a handful of games) he has done nothing to impress me.  I’d prefer Minshew, if My Quite falters down the stretch

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Minshew

His only bad ‘stat’ is QBrec which we have established as crappy. By pretty much all metrics he’s better than a backup. Plus, his mustache is to die for.
I’m sorry, I don’t think Mike White is sustainable. He’s a great player to come inand fill in but I doubt he will keep throwing for 300 yards and 3 TDs in a game. If he does then we have our QB. I’m not convinced yet.

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26 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

do we really need another first round WR?

 

Yes, to lift Mike White even further next year.  I don’t think they’ll have the cap space to keep Corey Davis, who also hasn’t proven he can stay healthy.  Moore is a slot w/ Berrios, which only leaves Mims.  Cannot rely on him to become a legitimate starter.

Look at the impact of Garrett Wilson!

Cap dollars need to go to Mike White or some other capable starter, re-signing Herbig, signing a starting DT (or re-signing Rankins), and re-signing Quincy Williams & possibly Kwon Alexander. 

What would you draft instead?
 

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

JMO, but I don't want the Jets to "take a HR swing" at QB for 2023.

I want to see them keep White, sign Minshew, dump Flacco and maybe retain Zach to develop him another year.

White and Minshew will cost money, but not close to what a "HR swing" QB would.  

And I then spend the saved cap space/money of continuing to improve our O-line and Defense.  

Same in the draft.  More O-line.  More Defense now. 

White/Minshew/Zach at QB

Hall/Carter/Knight at RB

Wilson/Moore/Mims/Berrios/Draft Pick at WR

Uzomah/Conklin/Ruckert at TE.

And more and better O-line and Defense.

That is a possible route to success IMO. 

Completely with you except they most likely won’t have the dollars to sign both White (if he does we’ll test of the year) + Minshew.  Don’t know why White would even want to resign in such a scenario as he would have other options.

I’m a nerd when it comes to this stuff.  They’ll probably need to cut BOTH Davis and Lawson to make the cap work.

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56 minutes ago, carlito1171 said:

Im all in on the Minshew train. He'd be a great fit for this offense. And a likeable guy. Fans will love him like 2015 Fitz....

Whether White is the answer or not, him and Minshew would make a solid QB room.  With Wilson as the developmental QB3 I suppose.  Dump Flacco.  Practice Squad Streveler if possible.  

Minshew would likely be open to coming here given that a path to starting would theoretically be easier here than other spots (even if White IS the guy, he's gotten hurt before).  Plus we'll have good cap space to meet any financial demands.  

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1 hour ago, PepPep said:

Personally, its not about the Wins and Losses with Carr.

Yes, I may have overstated his age, he is not that young- but younger than Brady and Rodgers. But I look at his numbers. He is a very good passer. He threw for over 3,000 yards his first 4 years in the league with over 20TDs. He continued with 4 consecutive seasons throwing for over 4,000 yrds. This year he is on pace to throw for over 3,000yrds again in what seems like an off year for him.

He would make this offense great with the weapons we have. I compare him to Stafford, who is a great passer but lost a ton of games with the Lions- only to come to a team with a legit defense and propel them to a SB. 

As far as WHY LV may trade him? I already said, they are 4-7 and have a brutal schedule to finish off the season. My guess is they will have the third or fourth pick in the draft (maybe behind the Broncos and Texans) and will have the opportunity to draft a stud QB.

They have a potential out with Carr in 2023 where he only has about $5.6mil in dead cap. I may be wrong, but I believe that means this is the first year they would not have to deal with massive dead cap if they traded him.

The Raiders have been bad for a while and IMO its NOT because of Carr. Sometimes, however, its just time for a reset, and he needs a change of scenery.   

And while I understand that JD's roots come from Baltimore and Philadelphia, I would not pigeonhole him. If he feels like this team is ready to win now and all its missing is a top tier QB, he won't hesitate to do what it takes to bring one in- via FA, trade, whatever. JMHO.   

Minshew does all of the things that carr does and is younger and less expensive.

image.thumb.png.d974f58572aa4b342b22b0730758d5ac.png

 

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2 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Minshew does all of the things that carr does and is younger and less expensive.

image.thumb.png.d974f58572aa4b342b22b0730758d5ac.png

 

Stop it.

Minshew has thrown for over 3k once in his career. Once. I know he hasn't been around very long. But that is part of it. You know exactly what you are getting with Carr. He's a veteran QB.

He has thrown for over 3k in yards every single season he's been in the NFL. 4 seasons over 4k. Minshew has played 28 games. Carr has played 138. Carr has played 8 full seasons (going on 9) as a starter. I mean its a completely different caliber QB you are getting. You can't compare the two.

Stop. Just stop. 

Angry Season 4 GIF by The Office

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3 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Yes, to lift Mike White even further next year.  I don’t think they’ll have the cap space to keep Corey Davis, who also hasn’t proven he can stay healthy.  Moore is a slot w/ Berrios, which only leaves Mims.  Cannot rely on him to become a legitimate starter.

Look at the impact of Garrett Wilson!

Cap dollars need to go to Mike White or some other capable starter, re-signing Herbig, signing a starting DT (or re-signing Rankins), and re-signing Quincy Williams & possibly Kwon Alexander. 

What would you draft instead?
 

LB perhaps. 
 

corey isn’t expensive next year. 

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7 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I hope mike white is the next Tom Brady. But, man o man if he is, wtf is the issue with this coaching staff not realizing they have HOFer in their QB room?

Bill Belichick did not realize he had a starting QB on the bench in Brady until he was forced to use him because of an injury to Bledsoe. And Bledsoe likely comes back as the starter in 2002 if not for the tuck rule call vs the Raiders.  Brady admitted that himself on the 30 for 30 show on the Tuck rule game.

Bill Parcells played Scott Bruner over Phil Simms early in his coaching career.  

Tom Landry platooned Roger Staubach with Craig Morton in the early 1970s.  

I could name dozens of other examples if I took the time to think.  There is quite a bit of luck and the need for an opportunity sometimes for a QB to emerge.

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5 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Bill Belichick did not realize he had a starting QB on the bench in Brady until he was forced to use him because of an injury to Bledsoe. And Bledsoe likely comes back as the starter in 2002 if not for the tuck rule call vs the Raiders.  Brady admitted that himself on the 30 for 30 show on the Tuck rule game.

Bill Parcells played Scott Bruner over Phil Simms early in his coaching career.  

Tom Landry platooned Roger Staubach with Craig Morton in the early 1970s.  

I could name dozens of other examples if I took the time to think.  There is quite a bit of luck and the need for an opportunity sometimes for a QB to emerge.

Very good post. 

QB is just the hardest position to project. 

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