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[VJphillyfan]

9 hours ago, Joe Jets fan said:

This is what the White crazies can’t get through the thick heads, no one is saying Wilson is better.  Just saying it ain’t white.  

Ok now I’m convinced that Zach Wilson wins yesterday ?

[FidelioJet]

9 hours ago, Joejet said:

While not between the numbers it was a very catchable ball. You are generally fair in your analysis but for some reason you are being very stubborn on this. Maybe you should go back and rewatch the play. These are professional receivers and he should have caught it.

I'm going to ask a simple question here..

Why should a receiver have to catch a tough ball but a QB not supposed to throw a good ball 5 yards away - he is a professional QB.

I've said it was catchable but also said it wasn't a good throw.  It can be both.  He threw it on his back shoulder from 5 yards away, while he was falling to the ground.  

Be mad at Berrios if you want - but Mike White should take his share of the blame as well - that's all I'm saying.

[Warfish]

3 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm going to ask a simple question here..

Why should a receiver have to catch a tough ball but a QB not supposed to throw a good ball 5 yards away - he is a professional QB.

I've said it was catchable but also said it wasn't a good throw.  It can be both.  He threw it on his back shoulder from 5 yards away, while he was falling to the ground.  

Be mad at Berrios if you want - but Mike White should take his share of the blame as well - that's all I'm saying.

He did, in the postgame.

It’s also very clear you’re not making these observations is an unbiased way. Go back and read your previous posts in re: Zach and drops for example. 

Your takes since MW was named starter have been as lopsided as the refereeing yesterday.
 

[TuscanyTile2]

7 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm going to ask a simple question here..

Why should a receiver have to catch a tough ball but a QB not supposed to throw a good ball 5 yards away - he is a professional QB.

I've said it was catchable but also said it wasn't a good throw.  It can be both.  He threw it on his back shoulder from 5 yards away, while he was falling to the ground.  

Be mad at Berrios if you want - but Mike White should take his share of the blame as well - that's all I'm saying.

MW overthrew a long pass to GW down the right sideline.  It wasn't a bad pass at all but it was slightly overthrown.  That pass was on MW, not GW.  The pass in the EZ to Berrios was catchable.  Berrios simply didn't get the job done.

[TuscanyTile2]

13 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm going to ask a simple question here..

Why should a receiver have to catch a tough ball but a QB not supposed to throw a good ball 5 yards away - he is a professional QB.

I've said it was catchable but also said it wasn't a good throw.  It can be both.  He threw it on his back shoulder from 5 yards away, while he was falling to the ground.  

Be mad at Berrios if you want - but Mike White should take his share of the blame as well - that's all I'm saying.

Btw, these are what bad passes look like:

 

[SuicidalSince98]

19 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm going to ask a simple question here..

Why should a receiver have to catch a tough ball but a QB not supposed to throw a good ball 5 yards away - he is a professional QB.

I've said it was catchable but also said it wasn't a good throw.  It can be both.  He threw it on his back shoulder from 5 yards away, while he was falling to the ground.  

Be mad at Berrios if you want - but Mike White should take his share of the blame as well - that's all I'm saying.

The throw was good enough, the catch wasn’t. It’s that simple 

[VJphillyfan]

8 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Btw, these are what bad passes look like:

 

This is the fans fault. - Chris Simms

[FidelioJet]

25 minutes ago, Warfish said:

He did, in the postgame.

It’s also very clear you’re not making these observations is an unbiased way. Go back and read your previous posts in re: Zach and drops for example. 

Your takes since MW was named starter have been as lopsided as the refereeing yesterday.
 

This mostly isn't true.  Early on in year 1 of ZW I thought many of the back shoulder throws were catchable.  

But after a few weeks and ALL this year and off-season - I discussed rather often how he has to stop throwing the ball behind - particularly on short passes - on guys back hips and back shoulders.  Those are very hard to adapt to - just no time to adjust.

You go look if you want - when I discussed what Zach had to fix - all offseason - I discussed stop throwing behind receivers as a major concern.

If you want to say it was a perfect throw that's fine.  I think the ball was catchable - but it also wasn't a good throw.  This really shouldn't be controversial - considering half of the people on this thread has said the same thing.

[FidelioJet]

18 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Btw, these are what bad passes look like:

 

You guys keep wanting to make this about Zach Wilson Vs. Mike White.

It's not.  At least it shouldn't be.  That ship has sailed.

Mike White is the starter for the NY Jets right now and almost certainly will be the rest of the year.  The question isn't whether he's the best QB on the roster right now (I don't know of anyone arguing otherwise) the question is - is Mike White the long term answer at QB.

If you're using Zach Wilson as the bar MW needs to clear - then I think you're missing the point.  Just being better than Wilson isn't, IMO, enough.

[FidelioJet]

13 minutes ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

The throw was good enough, the catch wasn’t. It’s that simple 

Disagree.  Neither were good - The throw was the bigger problem than the catch.

[VJphillyfan]

9 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

You guys keep wanting to make this about Zach Wilson Vs. Mike White.

It's not.  At least it shouldn't be.  That ship has sailed.

Mike White is the starter for the NY Jets right now and almost certainly will be the rest of the year.  The question isn't whether he's the best QB on the roster right now (I don't know of anyone arguing otherwise) the question is - is Mike White the long term answer at QB.

If you're using Zach Wilson as the bar MW needs to clear - then I think you're missing the point.  Just being better than Wilson isn't, IMO, enough.

It is about Wilson vs White because the Chris Simms kool aid drinkers still think Wilson should be starting for whatever nonsensical reason

[SuicidalSince98]

8 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Disagree.  Neither were good - The throw was the bigger problem than the catch.

The throw happened, and gave the WR a chance. The catch didn’t happen. One did their job, albeit not perfectly, the other didn’t do their job.

[TuscanyTile2]

3 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

You guys keep wanting to make this about Zach Wilson Vs. Mike White.

It's not.  At least it shouldn't be.  That ship has sailed.

Mike White is the starter for the NY Jets right now and almost certainly will be the rest of the year.  The question isn't whether he's the best QB on the roster right now (I don't know of anyone arguing otherwise) the question is - is Mike White the long term answer at QB.

If you're using Zach Wilson as the bar MW needs to clear - then I think you're missing the point.  Just being better than Wilson isn't, IMO, enough.

You're the ZW zealot who is doing the "passive aggressive thing" to try to crap on MW's performance.

It's far too early to decide if MW should be the starter next year.  There are still 5 games left this season and, thus, a lot to still be learned.  But with the way he's played so far this year (1 excellent start and another very good one), he's certainly passed his first 2 tests.    

But even if he plays great, there's absolutely no reason not to see what else is out there (e.g. Aaron Rodgers, TB12, etc).

[FidelioJet]

5 minutes ago, VJphillyfan said:

It is about Wilson vs White because the Chris Simms kool aid drinkers still think Wilson should be starting for whatever nonsensical reason

Who? Show me one person that thinks Wilson should be starting right now?

[Joejet]

40 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm going to ask a simple question here..

Why should a receiver have to catch a tough ball but a QB not supposed to throw a good ball 5 yards away - he is a professional QB.

I've said it was catchable but also said it wasn't a good throw.  It can be both.  He threw it on his back shoulder from 5 yards away, while he was falling to the ground.  

Be mad at Berrios if you want - but Mike White should take his share of the blame as well - that's all I'm saying.

I’m not mad at either one, the throw was off line and it was a tough catch. I said it was a very catchable ball and it was. There are many variables that factor into a win or loss, the end zone throw is magnified by when it happened.

You asked why a receiver should have to catch a tough ball and the answer is quite simply,  that is what he is paid to do. You stated that Mike White should take his share of the blame as well; if you listen to his interview he said that throw is on me, not sure what else you want from him. 

[FidelioJet]

13 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

You're the ZW zealot who is doing the "passive aggressive thing" to try to crap on MW's performance.

It's far too early to decide if MW should be the starter next year.  There are still 5 games left this season and, thus, a lot to still be learned.  But with the way he's played so far this year (1 excellent start and another very good one), he's certainly passed his first 2 tests.    

But even if he plays great, there's absolutely no reason not to see what else is out there (e.g. Aaron Rodgers, TB12, etc).

I think you guys are reading into my opinion.  It's not passive aggressive.  It's the way I see the game - Mike White wasn't perfect - It seems if you don't agree Mike White was perfect then you're a troll.

Sure, it's too early to decide if he's the starter next year - but it's certainly not too early to look at his performance and begin to build a case for or against him being next years starter.

This team is going to have to make a decision on wether to spend draft picks and a big contract on a QB or go with Mike White.  And they have 7 games on which to judge him.  

Mike White had a good second half (not passive aggressive, it was a good second half) but had a lot of opportunities where we settled for FG's instead of TD's too often.  

It happens to the best of them.  Again, it shouldn't be controversial to ALSO look at negatives amongst the positives.  You guys just want it to be all happy feelings - Mike White was perfect and it was everyone else's fault they lost except the QB.  I don't believe that to be the case.

[FidelioJet]

7 minutes ago, Joejet said:

I’m not mad at either one, the throw was off line and it was a tough catch. I said it was a very catchable ball and it was. There are many variables that factor into a win or loss, the end zone throw is magnified by when it happened.

You asked why a receiver should have to catch a tough ball and the answer is quite simply,  that is what he is paid to do. You stated that Mike White should take his share of the blame as well; if you listen to his interview he said that throw is on me, not sure what else you want from him. 

I have no problem with Mike White personally, I didn't listen to post game interviews.  From what I've been told BB took the blame too.  As they both should.  

I'm glad Mike White has accepted his share of the blame - My problem is with the fans on JetNation that are refusing to accept the same thing Mike White has accepted.  And calling me a troll for agreeing with him.

[TuscanyTile2]

6 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I think you guys are reading into my opinion.  It's not passive aggressive.  It's the way I see the game - Mike White wasn't perfect - anyone that says otherwise is a troll.

Sure, it's too early to decide if he's the starter next year - but it's certainly not too early to look at his performance and being to build a case for or against him being next years starter.

This team is going to have to make a decision on wether to spend draft picks and a big contract on a QB or go with Mike White.  And they have 7 games on which to judge him.  

Mike White had a good second half (not passive aggressive, it was a good second half) but had a lot of opportunities where we settled for FG's instead of TD's too often.  

It happens to the best of them.  Again, it shouldn't be controversial to ALSO look at negatives amongst the positives.  You guys just want it to be all happy feelings - Mike White was perfect and it was everyone else's fault they lost except the QB.  I don't believe that to be the case.

MW wasn't perfect?  Unlike the other 31 starters in the NFL?

[FidelioJet]

4 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

MW wasn't perfect?  Unlike the other 31 starters in the NFL?

Oh, I agree.  That's my point.  I'm not saying Mike White was bad.

but around here it's seemingly not okay to point out anything negative.  The Mike White police are attacking me for pointing out some of the things he did wrong.

[Jet Nut]

15 hours ago, Joe Jets fan said:

I have been a poster here for years and years.  So troll your ass

 

i can see that Zach sucked but also White is not an NFL QB, every team had there chance to sign him and no one did. That don’t tell you anything?   

So @Fantasy Island, you agree with this now?  You game me a thumb down for disagreeing.  

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, VJphillyfan said:

This is the fans fault. - Chris Simms

We lost yesterday!  Loserville!  We love it!

[GangGreened]

I can’t believe you guys voted this guy as JN captain. Embarrassing.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Disagree.  Neither were good - The throw was the bigger problem than the catch.

This is the dumbest take ever, legit.

[doitny]

1 hour ago, VJphillyfan said:

This is the fans fault. - Chris Simms

OMG im going to punch him. when is his show today? you know he is going to blame Mike White for everything.

[xJayce]

18 hours ago, Jets723 said:

I think both things are true.  There have been drops but White hasn’t always been sharp either 

Oh fully agreed. White was good, but definitely missed a few.

My comment was more along the lines of those two passes should have been caught.

[T0mShane]

So, this is why this loss was so frustrating. Mike White is the underdog who is supplanting a guy who many, many people were invested in. Not winning that game has given space to those people to hammer Mike White—no matter what he does—with petty complaints while tacitly equating them with Zach Wilson’s gross failures. The things @FidelioJet and @football guy are saying about White could be largely true, but if Berrios catches that ball and the Jets win, they’re not making these posts today and instead are screaming their Mike White critiques into a pillow. Losing has given those critiques oxygen. I’m not criticizing those dudes—that’s how the takes game is played, and it points to the larger problem White has—he has to crush guys like Fidelio and football guy, because there are people in charge of his future that are, or were, likewise invested in Zach Wilson. 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

So, this is why this loss was so frustrating. Mike White is the underdog who is supplanting a guy who many, many people were invested in. Not winning that game has given space to those people to hammer Mike White—no matter what he does—with petty complaints while tacitly equating them with Zach Wilson’s gross failures. The things @FidelioJet and @football guy are saying about White could be largely true, but if Berrios catches that ball and the Jets win, they’re not making these posts today and instead are screaming their Mike White critiques into a pillow. Losing has given those critiques oxygen. I’m not criticizing those dudes—that’s how the takes game is played, and it points to the larger problem White has—he has to crush guys like Fidelio and football guy, because there are people in charge of his future that are, or were, likewise invested in Zach Wilson. 

I honestly feel like this is just like the 49ers QB situation. You have Mike White who can run your offense efficiently but there's a ceiling to it. Just like Jimmy G. So they draft a younger, higher upside QB to eventually take over. 

They'll always be the urge to turn to the younger QB and hope he takes over but these low ceiling guys keep it competitive every week without the headaches.

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

You're the ZW zealot who is doing the "passive aggressive thing" to try to crap on MW's performance.

Exactly.  And he's not really hiding it in any way, it's quite obvious.

2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

It's far too early to decide if MW should be the starter next year. There are still 5 games left this season and, thus, a lot to still be learned.

But even if he plays great, there's absolutely no reason not to see what else is out there (e.g. Aaron Rodgers, TB12, etc).

100%, absolutely too early.

And while I may strongly disagree about Rodgers and (especially) Tom Brady, I 100% agree that JD has a responsibility to explore the entire QB market for the maximum value and improvement possible for both short term and long term success.

2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

But with the way he's played so far this year (1 excellent start and another very good one), he's certainly passed his first 2 tests.    

Yes.  I want to see more.  That's all I can ask, to see play that makes me want to see more of that play.

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

Tough loss ; we need to work on our red zone offense . Rome wasn't built in a day .

[FidelioJet]

23 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

So, this is why this loss was so frustrating. Mike White is the underdog who is supplanting a guy who many, many people were invested in. Not winning that game has given space to those people to hammer Mike White—no matter what he does—with petty complaints while tacitly equating them with Zach Wilson’s gross failures. The things @FidelioJet and @football guy are saying about White could be largely true, but if Berrios catches that ball and the Jets win, they’re not making these posts today and instead are screaming their Mike White critiques into a pillow. Losing has given those critiques oxygen. I’m not criticizing those dudes—that’s how the takes game is played, and it points to the larger problem White has—he has to crush guys like Fidelio and football guy, because there are people in charge of his future that are, or were, likewise invested in Zach Wilson. 

This is fair, in that, I'm not as smitten with Mike White the way many are - he's playing well for sure - but I see someone that is also limited.

Honestly, I hope he proves to me he's our future I honestly do.  I want him to succeed and had a lot of fun yesterday rooting for him - I frightened half my household screaming after that big  4th down completion. Would be great to pay him $15mm...and use any surplus on bettering the team.

If I understand the gist of your point, I think you're right.  

Convincing me he's the guy is likely going to be more difficult than some others around here - but, I think - your point is, my position is likely closer to where the Jets brass's heads are.

[doitny]

29 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

So, this is why this loss was so frustrating. Mike White is the underdog who is supplanting a guy who many, many people were invested in. Not winning that game has given space to those people to hammer Mike White—no matter what he does—with petty complaints while tacitly equating them with Zach Wilson’s gross failures. The things @FidelioJet and @football guy are saying about White could be largely true, but if Berrios catches that ball and the Jets win, they’re not making these posts today and instead are screaming their Mike White critiques into a pillow. Losing has given those critiques oxygen. I’m not criticizing those dudes—that’s how the takes game is played, and it points to the larger problem White has—he has to crush guys like Fidelio and football guy, because there are people in charge of his future that are, or were, likewise invested in Zach Wilson. 

exactly. its sad that Mike White has to play 1,000 times better than Zach to keep playing. he is the QB in the 2 most total yds games this year. and according to @football guy they plan on Zach starting the next week vs Detroit. if he knows that im sure Mike White does too. imagine the pressure on this kid to have to not only beat Buffalo but have a really good game just to keep playing. 

these next 5 games should be all about making the playoffs now and Mike White gives us the best chance.

[JustInFudge]

31 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

So, this is why this loss was so frustrating. Mike White is the underdog who is supplanting a guy who many, many people were invested in. Not winning that game has given space to those people to hammer Mike White—no matter what he does—with petty complaints while tacitly equating them with Zach Wilson’s gross failures. The things @FidelioJet and @football guy are saying about White could be largely true, but if Berrios catches that ball and the Jets win, they’re not making these posts today and instead are screaming their Mike White critiques into a pillow. Losing has given those critiques oxygen. I’m not criticizing those dudes—that’s how the takes game is played, and it points to the larger problem White has—he has to crush guys like Fidelio and football guy, because there are people in charge of his future that are, or were, likewise invested in Zach Wilson. 

As documented, this regime's handling of the QB situation infuriates me, really my only true gripe.  That said, I was honestly shocked when they put Zach on the shelf.  Like, deactivated status, never in a million years believed they'd go to that extent.  And I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt because I think they've earned it w/ this take but it feels like, someone in that building is finally speaking the truth about the situation. And if they were able to get JD and Saleh to this point w/ Zach, you have to hope that person is showing how this is confirmation despite the loss, that they made the right decision.

 

[JustInFudge]

8 minutes ago, doitny said:

exactly. its sad that Mike White has to play 1,000 times better than Zach to keep playing. he is the QB in the 2 most total yds games this year. and according to @football guy they plan on Zach starting the next week vs Detroit. if he knows that im sure Mike White does too. imagine the pressure on this kid to have to not only beat Buffalo but have a really good game just to keep playing. 

these next 5 games should be all about making the playoffs now and Mike White gives us the best chance.

[Sperm Edwards]

19 hours ago, WeCantDraftGoodQBs said:

Yes CJ forcing a 3 and out!

19 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Alright Mosely, I see you.

This was probably Mosley's only good play, from start to finish, all game long. And of course it came was when it wasn't needed, in the sense that if he didn't make it Quincy (who was twice the LB yesterday) was also in position there to do it anyway. Last week his big play was his late pick, which came in garbage time; late in the 4th with a 21-point lead.

It gets swept under the rug when the D plays well, but honestly what an atrocious game Mosley had. Not good, not ok, not "not-bad" --- it was atrocious. He's been going along for the ride & getting carried like a has-been / game-managing QB who probably knows what to do but doesn't have the skills (or doesn't have them anymore).

With him easy to spot even in crowds with yesterday's orange kicks (earlier it had been just the red dread-ends) if you couldn't always make out the 57, the only thing more infuriating than CJM's play is the me-triggering of hearing announcers talk about how wonderful he is in between those unworthy compliments: getting pushed backwards; unable to disengage; getting effortlessly pushed to the side; planting himself too far back behind the marker & late-reacting, to make the overwhelming majority of his tackles past the 1st down marker; right to not making a critical stop at the goal line when the play comes to him up the middle (getting pushed backwards into the EZ by a back he outweighs by 30+ pounds). 

This needs to be his last year. I do get the leadership/huddle stuff with a young defense, but for next year it's not even just a money thing; they need to draft a better MLB because he just shouldn't be on the field every play. Now since I also mentioned money, put his over-bloated $17MM salary towards Mike White's franchise tag if they can't agree on a MW extension. 

Does no one else watch him, even as he decorates himself to become extra-visible?

This isn't just the myth being bigger than the man. The myth is The Jolly Green Giant; the man is Sprout. 

[talisaynon]

I dont think Wilson wins that game only because I think the zone looks Minnesota had would have given him trouble