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White to Start against Buf


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22 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

I agree MW has played very well , especially in getting the ball out on time and in rhythm.

But what concerns about White is the fact that teams will now start to compile and process film from his games . They will gameplan against his quick read WCO style approach , it then becomes a chess match against how does MW and Lafleur adapt. Is MW suited to a downfield passing approach , limited evidence says he's been ok but its just that limited evidence. I feel he gives us the best option to win at this point but Lafleur is going to have to get creative to keep teams from stuffing the box.  If only we could combine White's quick read proficiency with Zach's arm talent. 

In the first half the Vikings did what you suggested other teams will do by taking away the quick passing. In the 2nd half the Jets came out with a more vertical game plan and he competed 68% of his passes for 243 yds in the 2nd half.

I don't know where this weak arm strength started for White. Maybe bc he throws short and quick a lot but coming out of college he was knows to have a strong arm. It's all over his scouting reports. He made some really tight window throws to the sideline and over the middle for 20-25 yards in the air in the 2nd half that showed off his arm strength and accuracy. That arm strength narrative is lazy. 

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1 minute ago, choon328 said:

In the first half the Vikings did what you suggested other teams will do by taking away the quick passing. In the 2nd half the Jets came out with a more vertical game plan and he competed 68% of his passes for 243 yds in the 2nd half.

I don't know where this weak arm strength started for White. Maybe bc he throws short and quick a lot but coming out of college he was knows to have a strong arm. It's all over his scouting reports. He made some really tight window throws to the sideline and over the middle for 20-25 yards in the air in the 2nd half that showed off his arm strength and accuracy. That arm strength narrative is lazy. 

The Vikes in the 2nd half went into almost a prevent type defense which was a big mistake on their part , since it was only a two score lead.

Again White made some very good throws ,I'm not bashing him or his arm ,I'm just worried if that type of game is sustainable for him with better Defenses. 

Not lazy at all , he has a good arm its just not on Wilson's level that's just pure fact . 

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9 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Hate ZW all you want but you can't deny his arm strength , I truly believe this is why he was drafted over Fields , and I'll continue to go on record saying I wanted Fields over Wilson.

MW has definitely made some tight window throws , especially one in each game to GW that have resulted in big plays . I cross my fingers that he continues to do so in the upcoming games but I worry some of those can easily become picks . Brady and the Pats system was game planned brilliantly to expose an opponents weaknesses, until I see Lafleur and company do the same - no comparison whatsoever at least not yet. 

What good is arm strength  if the ball is never thrown accurately.  I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen Zach hit a WR in stride. We see more WRs come back to the ball. 

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20 minutes ago, choon328 said:

First read QB? You are clueless. Go watch Dan Orlovsky break down his film against the Bears. He shows one part where he gets to his 4th read in about 2.5 seconds. You're talking out of your ass.

If you say so... He's all yours.  

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13 minutes ago, choon328 said:

In the first half the Vikings did what you suggested other teams will do by taking away the quick passing. In the 2nd half the Jets came out with a more vertical game plan and he competed 68% of his passes for 243 yds in the 2nd half.

I don't know where this weak arm strength started for White. Maybe bc he throws short and quick a lot but coming out of college he was knows to have a strong arm. It's all over his scouting reports. He made some really tight window throws to the sideline and over the middle for 20-25 yards in the air in the 2nd half that showed off his arm strength and accuracy. That arm strength narrative is lazy. 

Mike White's arm strength isn't the problem 

Mike White's slow release is the problem..

He throws like a baseball pitcher requiring a big wind up.   So, in theory, by the time he commits to the throw and the time it gets to the receiver - serves a very similar purpose to not having a big arm.  

When the ball gets released he has plenty of velocity, but that wind up is defiantly a limiting aspect of his game.

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13 minutes ago, choon328 said:

In the first half the Vikings did what you suggested other teams will do by taking away the quick passing. In the 2nd half the Jets came out with a more vertical game plan and he competed 68% of his passes for 243 yds in the 2nd half.

I don't know where this weak arm strength started for White. Maybe bc he throws short and quick a lot but coming out of college he was knows to have a strong arm. It's all over his scouting reports. He made some really tight window throws to the sideline and over the middle for 20-25 yards in the air in the 2nd half that showed off his arm strength and accuracy. That arm strength narrative is lazy. 

Mike White was a pitcher in High School, had a 95 mph fastball. There is that stupid Ourlads stat out there regarding mph, it's dumb AF but people on this site called Deshaun Watson undraftable for his lack of a fastball.  Here is there data from the year White was drafted.  His arm, is fine.  Another stupid narrative.  FTR, I think Zach is was 60 or something like that, but he sucks donkey balls, so who cares? 

 

Josh Allen Wyoming 62 (Left) 62 (Right)
Baker Mayfield Oklahoma 59 (Left) 60 (Right)
Josh Rosen UCLA 57 (Left) 59 (Right)
Tanner Lee Nebraska 56 (Left) 57 (Right)
Kurt Benkert Virginia 55 (Left) 56 (Right)
Danny Etling LSU 54 (Left) 56 (Right)
Nic Shimonek Texas Tech 55 (Left) 55 (Right)
Chase Litton Marshall 53 (Left) 55 (Right)
Mike White Western Kentucky 53 (Left) 55 (Right)
Austin Allen Arkansas 53 (Left) 54 (Right)
Riley Ferguson Memphis 52 (Left) 54 (Right)
JT Barrett Ohio State 52 (Left) 52 (Right)
Luke Falk Washington State 52 (Left) 52 (Right)
Kyle Lauletta Richmond 52 (Left) 52 (Right)
Mason Rudolph Oklahoma State 52 (Left) 52 (Right)
Logan Woodside Toledo 52 (Left) 52 (Right)
Quinton Flowers South Florida 49 (Left) 49 (Right)
Lamar Jackson Louisville 49 (Left) 49 (Right)
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5 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Yeah, unless he's part of a deal for a QB (like Carr) I agree. 

From everything I hear listening to our favorite YouTube content makers, Zach's cap hit is so off the charts that in any deal would be devistating to the Jets. Dont think he is going anywhere

 

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Mark Craig, Star Tribune
Mon, December 5, 2022 at 6:00 AM
 
 

1. Mike White is what we thought he was — another backup.

The 2022 Vikings raised their record to 4-0 against backup quarterbacks, exhaling only after Camryn Bynum intercepted journeyman Mike White's 57th and final pass in the red zone in the closing seconds of a 27-22 win over the Jets at U.S. Bank Stadium on Sunday. White was a trooper with 369 yards passing, but he was just another overmatched backup in two areas: Third-down conversions (3-for-16) and red-zone touchdowns (1-for-6). It must have been painful for Jets fans to watch White continually throw short of the sticks on third down for the first 47 ½ minutes. During that part of the game, he completed six of eight passes on third-and-7 or longer without a single first down. The Jets settled for field goals after five of those failed third downs. White was what we thought he was: A backup making his fifth NFL start in five seasons.

2. Saleh didn't do his team any favors on fourth-and-2.

Jets second-year coach Robert Saleh has the 7-5 Jets on the right path, playing with a swagger we haven't seen since Rex Ryan was around in 2009. However … Saleh put a career backup quarterback and his team in a bad position by going for it on fourth-and-2 from his 43-yard line with two minutes left in the first half. The Vikings were up 17-3 and were getting the ball to start the second half. Punt the ball. Don't hand the Vikings half a field to possibly go up four TDs before you get the ball back. White threw incomplete to former Vikings tight end Tyler Conklin in tight coverage against Chandon Sullivan. The Vikings didn't score a touchdown, but were rewarded with three more points despite mustering only 20 yards. Where Saleh and offensive coordinator Mike LaFleur should have been more aggressive was on those third-and-longs that ended short of the sticks.

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2 hours ago, GandWFan said:

More bullsh*t.  White goes through his progressions.  Very quickly, in fact.  He is not a "one read QB".

See his explanation of the final throw in his press conference.  Explains how he looked at 3 other options before throwing down the middle because he didn't want to end the game with the ball in his hand.  Smart.

Sorry, Mrs Wilson.  Your arguments don't hold water.

If you didn't see what I did, I can't fault you for that. I'm sure there are a pile of times he gets to his third or fourth read.  There were also multiple occasions that he missed a chance to make a difference in the Vikes game.  

There are reasons he wound up as a third string QB and there are reasons the Jets CS had no choice but to start him. Right now, he has been putting up yardage against weak defenses.  You'll see more of what I can when he has to work against a good defense.  

He's an excellent guy to have on the bench, but he's not a good choice as a starting QB for the reasons I gave you.  You call bs, I say you are compelled to come rescue your man crush. 

He's all yours.  

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10 minutes ago, Copernicus said:

From everything I hear listening to our favorite YouTube content makers, Zach's cap hit is so off the charts that in any deal would be devistating to the Jets. Dont think he is going anywhere

 

Most of his salary is in bonus, so I think there would be like $22M in dead money, but I think they could structure it to better facilitate a trade and this kind of structure probably makes him very attractive on the trade market.  A project making $12M per is not so great, but one making $1M with another $3M or $4M in roster bonus might be worth taking a swing on.  These things make a big difference in what pick you get back.

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4 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

you don't like zach, don't like white

perhaps just take a break and wait till next season and hope JD gets a QB that you approve of

That's what I'm hoping for.  Drafting a new QB, but also having a vet on the roster if they decide it would be best to let the new guy learn for a while.

With QB's I say keep swinging until you hit a home run.  It is a losing tactic to try to win in this era without an elite QB.  It is nearly impossible to win the Super Bowl now unless you have a guy like Brady, Mahommes, Allen, Herbert, Burrow, Lamar, etc.  Look at the last 10 Super Bowl winning teams.  Other than Nick Foles, all were super start QB's.  And Nick Foles had a great year passing the ball. 

Wilson is just awful as a player and White is a utility back-up.  

I really want the Jets to beat Beefalo, but I'm afraid we'll see White's limitations. 

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14 hours ago, THE BARON said:

I was sure Wilson was a bad draft pick and I was right.  I am sure MFW is not a bona fied NFL qb, and I'm sure that will prove out as well.  

He is all yours.  Not mine.  

 

You sent me that yesterday afternoon.  Then to @choon328

22 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

If you say so... He's all yours.  

and then to @GandWFan

6 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

If you didn't see what I did, I can't fault you for that. I'm sure there are a pile of times he gets to his third or fourth read.  There were also multiple occasions that he missed a chance to make a difference in the Vikes game.  

There are reasons he wound up as a third string QB and there are reasons the Jets CS had no choice but to start him. Right now, he has been putting up yardage against weak defenses.  You'll see more of what I can when he has to work against a good defense.  

He's an excellent guy to have on the bench, but he's not a good choice as a starting QB for the reasons I gave you.  You call bs, I say you are compelled to come rescue your man crush. 

He's all yours.  

******* guy.  I thought he was mine!

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25 minutes ago, JiFields said:

Mike White was a pitcher in High School, had a 95 mph fastball. There is that stupid Ourlads stat out there regarding mph, it's dumb AF but people on this site called Deshaun Watson undraftable for his lack of a fastball.  Here is there data from the year White was drafted.  His arm, is fine.  Another stupid narrative.  FTR, I think Zach is was 60 or something like that, but he sucks donkey balls, so who cares? 

 

Josh Allen Wyoming 62 (Left) 62 (Right)
Baker Mayfield Oklahoma 59 (Left) 60 (Right)
Josh Rosen UCLA 57 (Left) 59 (Right)
Tanner Lee Nebraska 56 (Left) 57 (Right)
Kurt Benkert Virginia 55 (Left) 56 (Right)
Danny Etling LSU 54 (Left) 56 (Right)
Nic Shimonek Texas Tech 55 (Left) 55 (Right)
Chase Litton Marshall 53 (Left) 55 (Right)
Mike White Western Kentucky 53 (Left) 55 (Right)
Austin Allen Arkansas 53 (Left) 54 (Right)
Riley Ferguson Memphis 52 (Left) 54 (Right)
JT Barrett Ohio State 52 (Left) 52 (Right)
Luke Falk Washington State 52 (Left) 52 (Right)
Kyle Lauletta Richmond 52 (Left) 52 (Right)
Mason Rudolph Oklahoma State 52 (Left) 52 (Right)
Logan Woodside Toledo 52 (Left) 52 (Right)
Quinton Flowers South Florida 49 (Left) 49 (Right)
Lamar Jackson Louisville 49 (Left) 49 (Right)

To be fair, somewhere out there are reports from the senior bowl practices.  White was supposedly a big riser, but they did have concerns about (I think it was) how he did not drive the ball on deep outs.  I keep looking but haven't found it yet.  I know that leading up to the draft he was on my list of guys I was interested in and I ONLY like big armed QBs late.  I read that report after the draft and again probably some time last year when I was trying to figure out why they didn't go back to White.

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46 minutes ago, choon328 said:

In the first half the Vikings did what you suggested other teams will do by taking away the quick passing. In the 2nd half the Jets came out with a more vertical game plan and he competed 68% of his passes for 243 yds in the 2nd half.

I don't know where this weak arm strength started for White. Maybe bc he throws short and quick a lot but coming out of college he was knows to have a strong arm. It's all over his scouting reports. He made some really tight window throws to the sideline and over the middle for 20-25 yards in the air in the 2nd half that showed off his arm strength and accuracy. That arm strength narrative is lazy. 

when Pennington was drafted, parcells said that he ‘can make all the necessary throws’.  Of course this was before his injuries.  White can definitely make all the throws.  His slight overthrow to wilson in the 4th quarter was almost a beautiful pass, but it was overthrown.

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12 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

To be fair, somewhere out there are reports from the senior bowl practices.  White was supposedly a big riser, but they did have concerns about (I think it was) how he did not drive the ball on deep outs.  I keep looking but haven't found it yet.  I know that leading up to the draft he was on my list of guys I was interested in and I ONLY like big armed QBs late.  I read that report after the draft and again probably some time last year when I was trying to figure out why they didn't go back to White.

I could see that, which is funny because I distinctly remember the draft analysis on him was; big live arm but not a timing QB, doesnt make fast decisions, etc.  He's basicaly been the opposite, go figure.

 

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17 hours ago, THE BARON said:

And you missed the other 9 ???  When you are done picking cherries, can you pick me an apple ?

2/9. Manning in 2016 was the epitome of a game manager. Literally his arm was shot by midway through that season. Your point is a good one though. Having a great quarterback represents 75% to game manager being 25%. What I will say is White could be an Alex Smith type that you try to upgrade as you allow the other talent to grow. Just my thoughts on moving on from Wilson post this season. 

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2 minutes ago, TheMo said:

2/9. Manning in 2016 was the epitome of a game manager. Literally his arm was shot by midway through that season. Your point is a good one though. Having a great quarterback represents 75% to game manager being 25%. What I will say is White could be an Alex Smith type that you try to upgrade as you allow the other talent to grow. Just my thoughts on moving on from Wilson post this season. 

That’s a good comp.  Now that may or may not be good enough to actually win a super bowl but even if it isn’t, it definitely is good enough to make the playoffs.  

If white had been the starter from game 1, this team would likely be at least 8-4.

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35 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

That's what I'm hoping for.  Drafting a new QB, but also having a vet on the roster if they decide it would be best to let the new guy learn for a while.

With QB's I say keep swinging until you hit a home run.  It is a losing tactic to try to win in this era without an elite QB.  It is nearly impossible to win the Super Bowl now unless you have a guy like Brady, Mahommes, Allen, Herbert, Burrow, Lamar, etc.  Look at the last 10 Super Bowl winning teams.  Other than Nick Foles, all were super start QB's.  And Nick Foles had a great year passing the ball. 

Wilson is just awful as a player and White is a utility back-up.  

I really want the Jets to beat Beefalo, but I'm afraid we'll see White's limitations. 

Look give him a full finish to the season and we'll see all the good/bad. I just find it ironic (not for you specifically, just in general) how much coaches say oh give this pampered draft pick time to develop but the other QB they can't be given that time. Realistically I don't think there is a ton separating Wilson and White when you look at the overall QB ability. Mobile with live arms. At some point the marginal differences become just that, marginal. 

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3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

That’s a good comp.  Now that may or may not be good enough to actually win a super bowl but even if it isn’t, it definitely is good enough to make the playoffs.  

If white had been the starter from game 1, this team would likely be at least 8-4.

And Alex Smith was developed over a while that's what people forget in remembering his KC years. To be fair he was the number one pick based on traits which cuts against my marginal talent gap argument lol but c'est la vie ?

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42 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

That's what I'm hoping for.  Drafting a new QB, but also having a vet on the roster if they decide it would be best to let the new guy learn for a while.

With QB's I say keep swinging until you hit a home run.  It is a losing tactic to try to win in this era without an elite QB.  It is nearly impossible to win the Super Bowl now unless you have a guy like Brady, Mahommes, Allen, Herbert, Burrow, Lamar, etc.  Look at the last 10 Super Bowl winning teams.  Other than Nick Foles, all were super start QB's.  And Nick Foles had a great year passing the ball. 

Wilson is just awful as a player and White is a utility back-up.  

I really want the Jets to beat Beefalo, but I'm afraid we'll see White's limitations. 

the last 5 years have had 4 non superstar QB in the superbowl,   foles, goff, garoppolo, stafford (he's good)

which Vet will come here if their replacement is about to be drafted?  

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16 minutes ago, TheMo said:

2/9. Manning in 2016 was the epitome of a game manager. Literally his arm was shot by midway through that season. Your point is a good one though. Having a great quarterback represents 75% to game manager being 25%. What I will say is White could be an Alex Smith type that you try to upgrade as you allow the other talent to grow. Just my thoughts on moving on from Wilson post this season. 

Manning's arm wasn't there due to the neck/nerve thing, but his experience was.  He won with Denver due to his world class football smarts,  That is no small asset.  No reason to consider him an outlier on that list.  He was a superstar even with much less velocity on the ball. 

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14 minutes ago, TheMo said:

Look give him a full finish to the season and we'll see all the good/bad. I just find it ironic (not for you specifically, just in general) how much coaches say oh give this pampered draft pick time to develop but the other QB they can't be given that time. Realistically I don't think there is a ton separating Wilson and White when you look at the overall QB ability. Mobile with live arms. At some point the marginal differences become just that, marginal. 

I dig what you are saying.  For myself, I thought Wilson was a very bad draft pick, but I tried to be positive about it.  After last season, I was even more convinced he was a total bust.  I'm not in the MFW camp as far as being a potential starter in 2023 but I would much rather have him than ZW.  

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2 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Manning's arm wasn't there due to the neck/nerve thing, but his experience was.  He won with Denver due to his world class football smarts,  That is no small asset.  No reason to consider him an outlier on that list.  He was a superstar even with much less velocity on the ball. 

If you can't win with a "limited" QB, you can't win with a limited QB.  Manning was as limited as it gets.

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10 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

the last 5 years have had 4 non superstar QB in the superbowl,   foles, goff, garoppolo, stafford (he's good)

which Vet will come here if their replacement is about to be drafted?  

Stafford is every bit one of the best passers in league history.  Goff was a bottleneck and lost the game. Jimmy G. lost the game, Foles, the only outlier had a career year and a 3 TD Super Bowl.

This proves my point.

If you want a Super Bowl win circa 2022 and beyond, the numbers say, 9 out of 10 are word class QB's and the outlier also happened to have a career year.

Any argument counter to that is not defensible.

If others want to concoct their own narrative on what wins in order to justify MFW as being a good option as a starting QB, what more can I say ???

 

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8 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Having zero arm is not a real limitation?  Also, when did you start chanelling @The Ghost of Joey Ramone?

Zero ?  Reaching.  

Let's give you the benefit of the doubt, then.

8 of the last 10 qbs to win the SB were super starrs

1 of them was a minor name that had a career year as a passer (foles)

1 sucked.  manning with world class smarts who is called an de facto OC on the field and made GASE look good, but he had... caugh...  "zero" arm,

My point is still solid as concreat.

MFW is all yours... again.  Love him.  Savor him.  Crown him. 

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