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Zach Wilson Analysis that is/was Crazy Accurate,!


Charlie Brown
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2 hours ago, dcJet said:

Holy Sh!t.  Zach looks like a completely different guy here.   He gets the ball out fast and steps into his throws and he's not running backwards. 

Notice there's no pass rush on any of these good throws.  

Ding ding ding...winner.....No pass rush..... any nfl qb can look like a star without a pass rush

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i think the comment about throws being late is right.  we've all see wilson throw late to guys.  and then there is the whole thing about the cb's knocking receivers out of their timing so the throws get even worse.  i also think wilson would do much better just by trying to take more of what the defense gives as opposed to trying to get too much and throwing into coverage.

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6 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

Well, I wanted you to see an analysis of Zach Wilson that deftly shows you the problems that Zach Wilson is having now.  The Key in the video is that they identify that Wilson needs the "right" coaching to get him to reach his full potential.

Enjoy!

 

Assuming that analysis is correct (and I'm always skeptical of things like this), who knows if Knapp would've been that guy.

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1 hour ago, rangerous said:

i think the comment about throws being late is right.  we've all see wilson throw late to guys.  and then there is the whole thing about the cb's knocking receivers out of their timing so the throws get even worse.  i also think wilson would do much better just by trying to take more of what the defense gives as opposed to trying to get too much and throwing into coverage.

The whole timing thing is just experience. It's like when you learn to shoot a layup. When nobody is guarding you, it's easy, but when you have a guy in your face, you have to learn to absorb the contact and still make the shot. 

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30 minutes ago, hawk said:

In the end, the player has to accept coaching.  I do not know if he has the right coaching, but I simply do not see any real improvement.

I think wilson has thought fora while he doesn’t need it, that he can freelance and ‘it will be fine’.  It’s a harsh reality to accept that he’s wrong.  I think that’s why his qb coach at byu said recently that you sometimes need a breakdown before a breakthrough.  At least part of Wilson’s problem is that he needs to embrace the coaching.  There have been press conferences where saleh has implored, that it’s ok to throw the ball away.  Wilson does need a reboot, he needs to work hard on the footwork fundamentals, and needs to embrace learning the system 

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6 hours ago, dcJet said:

Holy Sh!t.  Zach looks like a completely different guy here.   He gets the ball out fast and steps into his throws and he's not running backwards. 

Notice there's no pass rush on any of these good throws.  

None whatsoever.

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This is the problem; while Zach has nobody else to blame for the pushback about his bad attitude, his failures can largely be placed on the FO. What offense does LaFleur insist on running? Yep - the short pass timing plays. This is a perfect way to misuse Zach. Why is Zach a 4th Q QB?  Well, if the Jets are within a score or two late in the 4th Q, LaFluer has not choice but to move to a more aggressive downfield attacking offense. This is the better fit. Unfortunately this shows a multi-level problem with the Jets.

1. LaFleur is forcing Zach to fit his offense instead of adjusting the offense to fit ZW's skill set. This also explains why ZW go so much better when his personal coach joined the team - he was able to work with ZW directly, but also he was able to push LaFleur into more friendly plays - there was also no expectations on the team, so the CS was more willing to risk games.

2. Clearly JD and the CS were not on the same page; if the CS wanted to run the SF offense, JD should have traded down and drafted Mac Jones. So, why didn't he? My guess is that while the SF offense can be run effectively, in today's NFL it is hard for such a team to win the big games that way. There are too many teams that are good enough to score 30+ points a game even against very good defenses - as such, beating these teams require the ability to put up a lot of points. So why run the SF style offense? It is hard to find the QBs with the skills like that of Josh Allen. Going for the long term success, JD chose to roll the dice on ZW. The real problem is that the CS did not back that play. While it was expected for ZW to struggle, LaFleur does not give ZW a game plan that will help him build his confidence while at the same time helping learn the nuances of NFL defenses and the timing plays.

Now, this doesn't mean that had the CS done everything correctly, ZW would have succeeded. But, it does put a lot of blame not only on ZW, but on both the CS and JD.

3. The Jets are victims of their own success. Had the Jets D taken 4 games longer to turn it around, and the Jets not pull out some big crazy wins (Cleveland and Steelers) they would not be in such a good position for the playoffs. Had they been 2 or 3 games back, ZW would still be starting and hopefully getting better. Obviously. everyone is thrilled that the Jets are still playing so well, but will it translate to long term big success? I doubt it. I am not sure White can beat the top their teams and I am certain that LaFleur cannot unless he grows up very quickly.

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Simply, Zach Wilson was an over-rated flawed QB prospect, but the Jets-their FO and CS, mismanaged him and squandered some of the opportunity to develop him.  

Mike White was an under-rated prospect and has had more time to develop.  My guess is that he took the coaching better.  

The Jets now with Jamar Chase and Mac Jones would be leading the division.  

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That's hard to watch but I think it's correct. Late throws are a function of anticipation. His biggest issue is not ever anticipating throws and letting it rip early. He waits until a guy is clearly open first, then releases, at which point nfl defenders catch up to the wr.

He's right, lack of anticipation has done in many qbs. Is zach salvageable? Yes, I don't think it's impossible to learn to anticipate to degree required enough for him to be a good qb. But it's certainly not easy to retrain mental tendencies. 

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Fantastic summary.  And, nothing has changed. 

All who read my posts know that I didn't want the Jets to draft ZW.  Currently, I still believe he is a dead end. The arm talent and ability to evade pressure is obvious.  The flaws are also obvious.

Three that we can all see to this day.

1.  At times, when there are no clear options, will just throw the ball up like a high school QB.

2. Relies on arm strength and ball placement when timing/anticipation are called for.  As I have put it many times in here. He "aims" the ball instead of timing it.  Some have asked me "what the hell are you  bs'ing about. ??? I didnt know we had a QBC in here".   Well... This is what I'm talking about.

3. "Mesh" and failure to grasp it and take advantage of the potential targets that will pop open for a split second. Fortunately, for Wilson, LeFleur's passing plays are very "one read friendly".  Even considering this, Wilson misses targets that pop open due to his inability to grasp and read defensive reactions to meshed pass catchers.  There is seemingly zero accounting for and understanding and anticipation of meshed pass catchers in a given play.  Targets are coming open for those split seconds while ZW is looking to "aim" the ball somplace.

OK... Now, here is the TOTAL SHAME of it all.  IT CAN ALL BE FIXED.  But it wont.

One thing this fellow left out.  Attitude, mindset and work ethic,  THOSE are the fatal flaws.  Not his bush league style of QB play.  If ZW would "admit and commit" and was driven to become a star player, he COULD. 

Anyone been watching Trevor Lawrence ??? Some late last year and early this year were mocking him. "Generational" and so on.  Well... He's been improving.  A steady upward ark in all phases of his game.  He is even throwing "touch" passes now.  Something he could not do so well last year.  That is not physical talent.  That is work ethic and mindset.  Some would sum it up and call it "character"

Zach Wilson is a super talented kid that *knows it all*.  He won't "admit and commit".   He's got his big arm and fast wheels and does not believe he has to listen and learn.  He may not even care.  Some people are so spoiled, their own self deceit wont allow them to progress.  We've all seen those types come and go.  

He's a bust because he won't or can't learn and work hard. 

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6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

His flaws are IMO unfixable.

-Lack of field vision, does not see open guys regularly

-Lack of anticipation, does not see likely openings/opportunties early enough

-Lack of pocket presence/stability/willingness to stand tall/not panic.

-Lack of pass accuracy, does not consistently place the ball where it needs to be, especially on "easy" passes.

-Lack of ideal height (which effects his field vision IMO), lack of ideal bulk/strength, and injury issues (two season, two multi-game injuries so far).

Basically, all Zach really has shown is a powerful arm strength, and a "natural" schoolyard talent, that he cannot leverage or use to it's fullest because of these other weaknesses.  While he also has exceptional elusiveness once scrambling, he scrambles too often and too early, missing pass opportunities he doesn't appear to see/won't wait for/won't stand tall in the pocket to complete.  

Can a young QB fix all of these things?

I honestly do not think so.  Not at this point, not without several years of dedicated development and coaching.

Agreed, can't see how he makes his way back (at least with the Jets).  I would love to be able to trade him in the offseason to a team that believes his problems are fixable.  I can't see a team trading for Zach to be their unquestioned starter, but could see a team with an unsettled QB situation having Zach be part of a training camp battle for the starter role.  I think a 3rd round pick is reasonable, but hope JD can work his magic and get a 2nd

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6 hours ago, JETSY14 said:

Ding ding ding...winner.....No pass rush..... any nfl qb can look like a star without a pass rush

He can evade a pass rush and throw on the run.  He does not comprehend routs or NFL defense and he "aims" the ball rather than understanding how the play will unfold and anticipate what to do with the ball.  It is all football IQ.  All of it.  And, he cant or wont learn how to either. 

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2 hours ago, JiFields said:

Many of us saw the same thing when watching his college film, @win4ever did an incredible break down on him, showing all the terrible footwork, poor mechanics, weak decisions, tendencies that wouldnt fly in the NFL and the lack of talent he faced.  J.T. O'Sullivan had some great breakdowns on him as well. Sharing why he was hesitant and if remember correctly, had him QB 4 in his evaluation that year.   Waldman hated him too, for all the same reasons. 

Is what is is that this point, the Jets just missed this evaluation terribly and it was very predictable but now they have to make a wrong a right, commit to Mike White, build around him, let him gain experience and start to dial in his situational awareness that he just hasnt had enough exposure too yet because of his lack of experience.  The dude is doing historic sh*t for this team, stuff Jets fans have never see before, imagine how much better he could be after a full year of commitment, a full offseason, a full camp of taking first team reps, I think we're just scratching the surface w/ Mike White whereas, nobody has any clue where Zach Wilson's surface is at this point or if it will ever be found.

I dont think they missed their evaluation.  They saw the obvious talent.  They also felt he could be coached on the weaknesses.  THAT is the problem.  He wont "admit and commit".  To improve at any task, all of us have to "admit" we need to improve and then "commit" to doing it.  He has not even "admitted" much less made a commitment.  

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48 minutes ago, Warfish said:

His flaws are IMO unfixable.

-Lack of field vision, does not see open guys regularly

-Lack of anticipation, does not see likely openings/opportunities early enough, or at all

-Lack of pocket presence/stability/willingness to stand tall/not panic.

-Lack of pass accuracy, does not consistently place the ball where it needs to be, especially on "easy" passes.

-Lack of ideal height (which effects his field vision IMO), lack of ideal bulk/strength, and injury issues (two season, two multi-game injuries so far).

Basically, all Zach really has shown is a powerful arm strength, and a "natural" schoolyard talent, that he cannot leverage or use to it's fullest because of these other weaknesses.  While he also has exceptional elusiveness once scrambling, he scrambles too often and too early, missing pass opportunities he doesn't appear to see/won't wait for/won't stand tall in the pocket to complete.  

Can a young QB fix all of these things?

I honestly do not think so.  Not at this point, not without several years of dedicated development and coaching.

I dont agree.  All of his QB weaknesses can be fixed.  None of them are problems that can not be greatly improved on with coaching and above all, hard work.  Anyone who's ever learned to play a musical instrument understands this.  You don't need talent to develop skill with a musical instrument.  Just practice.  The ones who do it, do so because they really want to.  They commit to it.  Few if any good players are musical geniuses. They just have a lot of developed skill.  Even people that are tone deaf can develop really good relative pitch.  It all comes from repetition.  That's just part of desire to improve and working hard at it.

ZW actually has QB "genius" level raw tools.  That's why JD drafted him and Becton.  Remember, JD wants the "freaks".  I'm sure ZW wants to do good too. Problem is, he has not admitted he needs practice.  He thinks he's a stud.  

Friggin' shame.  

As for JD's big mistakes with ZW and Becton.  Yeah, a "freak" is great, but now, I bet he knows that some genius types or "freaks" as he puts it, can also be major flakes.  

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20 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

I dont think they missed their evaluation.  They saw the obvious talent.  They also felt he could be coached on the weaknesses.  THAT is the problem.  He wont "admit and commit".  To improve at any task, all of us have to "admit" we need to improve and then "commit" to doing it.  He has not even "admitted" much less made a commitment.  

I know what you're trying to say but everyone in the NFL has obvious talent to some degree or they wouldnt be in the league.  It's on the coaching staff to understand that talent and have an individualized plan to get the most out of that obvious talent.  This is where I think the Jets missed their evaluation, the plan, doesnt match the player.  I cant pretend to know whether he just doesnt take coaching or he's just a mental midget in the game and everything goes out the window or what but I do know, his fundamentals suck, always have, but I cant imagine he's been coached this way his entire life.  Anywho, it was always going to be a challenge to succeed in the NFL the way he plays ball.  So yeah, maybe he hears the Mahomes comparisons and thinks he be can that but I truly think it's deeper than that considering the circumstances.  He's not even active.  This is unprecedented territory. 

 

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10 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

I dont agree.  All of his QB weaknesses can be fixed.  None of them are problems that can not be greatly improved on with coaching and above all, hard work.  Anyone who's ever learned to play a musical instrument understands this.  You don't need talent to develop skill with a musical instrument.  Just practice.  The ones who do it, do so because they really want to.  They commit to it.  Few if any good players are musical geniuses. They just have a lot of developed skill.  Even people that are tone deaf can develop really good relative pitch.  It all comes from repetition.  That's just part of desire to improve and working hard at it.

ZW actually has QB "genius" level raw tools.  That's why JD drafted him and Becton.  Remember, JD wants the "freaks".  I'm sure ZW wants to do good too. Problem is, he has not admitted he needs practice.  He thinks he's a stud.  

Friggin' shame.  

As for JD's big mistakes with ZW and Becton.  Yeah, a "freak" is great, but now, I bet he knows that some genius types of "freaks" as he puts it, can also be major flakes.  

If these were fixable problems, there would be far more than 5-10 really good QBs in the league at any given time.

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32 minutes ago, JiFields said:

I know what you're trying to say but everyone in the NFL has obvious talent to some degree or they wouldnt be in the league.  It's on the coaching staff to understand that talent and have an individualized plan to get the most out of that obvious talent.  This is where I think the Jets missed their evaluation, the plan, doesnt match the player.  I cant pretend to know whether he just doesnt take coaching or he's just a mental midget in the game and everything goes out the window or what but I do know, his fundamentals suck, always have, but I cant imagine he's been coached this way his entire life.  Anywho, it was always going to be a challenge to succeed in the NFL the way he plays ball.  So yeah, maybe he hears the Mahomes comparisons and thinks he be can that but I truly think it's deeper than that considering the circumstances.  He's not even active.  This is unprecedented territory. 

 

Excellent post.  I agree with all of it across the board.  As you also pointed out, we are not in the room.  None of us really know.  Also... Unprecedented territory for sure.  And, I think what the Jets CS has done by deactivating him is the best and only thing they could have done to possibly save his tenure and career.  As Saleh put it.  A "reset".   They really needed to drop a boat anchor on his head.   If this does not get him to "admit and commit" his NFL career is over.  And like I pointed out, he may not care.  He will never "want" for anything material.   He has the basics in life wrapped up and way more than that.  He may not care about his football legacy nearly enough or at all to make improvements in his play.  In that case, he'll just go away quietly rather than break his ass to improve. 

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

His flaws are IMO unfixable.

-Lack of field vision, does not see open guys regularly

-Lack of anticipation, does not see likely openings/opportunities early enough, or at all

-Lack of pocket presence/stability/willingness to stand tall/not panic.

-Lack of pass accuracy, does not consistently place the ball where it needs to be, especially on "easy" passes.

-Lack of ideal height (which effects his field vision IMO), lack of ideal bulk/strength, and injury issues (two season, two multi-game injuries so far).

Basically, all Zach really has shown is a powerful arm strength, and a "natural" schoolyard talent, that he cannot leverage or use to it's fullest because of these other weaknesses.  While he also has exceptional elusiveness once scrambling, he scrambles too often and too early, missing pass opportunities he doesn't appear to see/won't wait for/won't stand tall in the pocket to complete.  

Can a young QB fix all of these things?

I honestly do not think so.  Not at this point, not without several years of dedicated development and coaching.

He's not cut out to be a starting QB in this league, maybe in Canada or maybe he could be a superstar in the USFL, but I don't want to see him under center in a New York Jets uniform again until he fixes all those things that you correctly noted. He is essentially a good sandlot player, unfortunately guys like Zach ( and me who also was a good sandlot QB back in the 70's) ain't good enough to ever become NFL quarterbacks

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31 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

If these were fixable problems, there would be far more than 5-10 really good QBs in the league at any given time.

Agree here from a pragmatic position.  Some flaws are more difficult to overcome than others.  Nothing is impossible, but much is improbable.

That is why I say that I believe Wilson can  be fixed, but wont be.  He's a bust.

With Becton, if he looses weight above his waist and works on his legs, he can also be fixed.  But he wont. 

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5 hours ago, JiFields said:

Many of us saw the same thing when watching his college film, @win4ever did an incredible break down on him, showing all the terrible footwork, poor mechanics, weak decisions, tendencies that wouldnt fly in the NFL and the lack of talent he faced.  J.T. O'Sullivan had some great breakdowns on him as well. Sharing why he was hesitant and if remember correctly, had him QB 4 in his evaluation that year.   Waldman hated him too, for all the same reasons. 

Is what is is that this point, the Jets just missed this evaluation terribly and it was very predictable but now they have to make a wrong a right, commit to Mike White, build around him, let him gain experience and start to dial in his situational awareness that he just hasnt had enough exposure too yet because of his lack of experience.  The dude is doing historic sh*t for this team, stuff Jets fans have never see before, imagine how much better he could be after a full year of commitment, a full offseason, a full camp of taking first team reps, I think we're just scratching the surface w/ Mike White whereas, nobody has any clue where Zach Wilson's surface is at this point or if it will ever be found.

It's not that they got it wrong that bothers me immensely, because we all have bad scouting reads, but just the sheer assurance they had in him.  I don't even think the Jags were as locked in on Lawrence as we were on Wilson.  There were reports of the 49ers trying to trade up, and they didn't even approach us because of how locked in we were on Wilson.  

I, falsely, thought he had fixed some of the issues last year when he started to run.  In a way, that's a byproduct of stepping up in the pocket, but also realizing that with a dearth of talent, running can be the defacto check down option.  I thought he was understanding the system, but I was wrong.  

He has the arm talent to be great, and he can escape the pocket, but he doesn't fit this offense at ALL.  He fits better in a vertical offense, heavy on RPO to hold linebackers.  However, we haven't shifted our offense to cater to him, nor has he adjusted much at all.  I think he still can be redeemed because the talent is there, but I don't know about the system fit.  

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3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Said every soon-to-be-fired NFL Head Coach who thought he was the genius who could "fix" someone else's bust draft pick QB, lol.

It is possible.

It is not likely.

And I said so too.  Possible, yes.  Probable no.  That is why I'm on record describing ZW as a bust, 

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