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7 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I’d like you to find me a good number of instances where a WR catches a pass, goes down untouched, has the ball pop out, costing the team a TD one week, and then follows it up the next week by letting a perfect TD pass go through his hands, letting the pass smack him in his face.  Neither team had a ton of Red Zone drives today.  Mike White and Jets went tit-for-tat with Buffalo in the Red Zone, but didn’t get the turnover that Buffalo got.

I like how far you moved the goalposts to a very specific scenario. Here’s a video I found of all dropped touchdowns and many are by better players than berrios. It’s not a rare thing that guys drop tds. The good teams overcome it. 
 

 

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13 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

Berrios seems to be moonstruck over losing Zach.  Other than gadget plays and specials, not sure what he brings... 

it’s one of the great misconceptions of recent times, that Berrios was ever any good to begin with. He was the best of an horrific bunch when we had nothing at WR but now we have some actual talent his inability is just that bit more glaring.

You have to scheme gadget plays to hand him the ball in space, with blocking out front and a bit of misdirection and his speed can make a few yards, but otherwise he’s just taking snaps away from better players or forcing us to abandon extra blocking options. He’s a solid to OK RS but Devin Hester he aint!…and as a WR he’s a liability.

I’m fairly sure his few decent returns have been as much to do with Brant Boyer blocking-scheme excellence as anything BB does, just last year, on the handful of occasions Berrios wasn’t the returner, Ty Johnson had some long returns. would be interesting to see what happens if we put someone else back there with some return skills, would there really be a great drop off ?
I just don’t think he’s a player who’s play matches the hype and we should be prioritising an upgrade over him this off-season 

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1 hour ago, BurntDice said:

I like how far you moved the goalposts to a very specific scenario. Here’s a video I found of all dropped touchdowns and many are by better players than berrios. It’s not a rare thing that guys drop tds. The good teams overcome it. 
 

 

I have not moved any goalposts, nor have I said that WRs don’t drop balls.  I have simply maintained that the offenses scoring output, through two weeks now, has been hampered by one very specific mediocre wide receiver.  You are in here trying to make Berrios’ drops in end zone the fault of White and the rest offense, and I am simply saying that this is baloney.

The drop from last week was 4th and goal.

The drop this week, IIRC, cost them a total of 4, maybe 5 points, as we needed to rush a field goal to stay in the game due to time constraints (because ANOTHER player, ruined a nice drive that White had going.)

So yeah, drops happen.  It’s still genuinely confusing as to why you want to put the blame on White instead of the players who actually f*cked up.  If a project team in college has 3-4 people who actually do the work they are supposed to do, and one person who is constantly f*cking up, causing them to fail assignments or miss deadlines, who should get in trouble/lose their job?  Hint: it’s not the people doing their jobs.

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6 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I have not moved any goalposts, nor have I said that WRs don’t drop balls.  I have simply maintained that the QB play has been hampered by a very mediocre wide receiver.  You are here trying to make Berrios’ drops in end zone the fault of White and the rest offense.

The drop from last week was 4th and goal.

The drop this week, IIRC, cost them a total of 4, maybe 5 points, as we needed to rush a field goal to stay in the game due to time constraints (because ANOTHER player, ruined a nice drive that White had going.)

Yeah, drops happen.  It’s still genuinely confusing as to why you want to put the blame on White instead of the players who actually f*cked up.  If a project team in college has 3-4 people who actually do the work they are supposed to do, and one person who is constantly f*cking up, causing them to fail assignments or miss deadlines, who should get in trouble?  Hint: it’s not the people doing their jobs.

I think you are missing my point. 
 

there are so few red zone attempts by white that he even has a chance to throw it in the end zone. Drops happen. 2 drops shouldn’t be the driving factor in 2 losses. There should have been many more opportunities for him to throw tds, but he either failed with them or they didn’t exist. Good qbs bring you to the red zone more than a handful of times in 2 games. 

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16 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

I think you are missing my point. 
 

there are so few red zone attempts by white that he even has a chance to throw it in the end zone. Drops happen. 2 drops shouldn’t be the driving factor in 2 losses. There should have been many more opportunities for him to throw tds, but he either failed with them or they didn’t exist. 

There were more than enough attempts against the Vikings.  It took some all-time stupid playcalling by Mike LaFleur with every trip and the Berrios drop to f*ck that up.

This week, there were less, but it’s not like Buffalo had a ton either, and they had the benefit of CJ Mosley committing one of the dumbest penalties I have ever seen a player commit, and a turnover.  Even with all that, I don’t know if they had more redzone trips than we did.  When we did get into the redzone, Zonovan Knight scored, Michael Carter fumbled, and Berrios let a pass doink off of his facemask.  I’m not going to blame Mike White for Michael Carters fumble or for Berrios being in over other, more talented, players so he can make another mistake.  Anyone who has watched the last 3 games we have played can tell you that QB has not been the major issue.  It has been other, mostly self-inflicted wounds, by other positions/coaches.

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1 hour ago, 56mehl56 said:

Even if Berrios caught that pass its not a td, which would have meant the Jets would have needed to burn a to. Bad call by ML or bad read by White. 

I would have to rewatch it to be certain, but I’m pretty sure it would have been a TD.  I’m trying to find the play on Twitter, but can’t.  However, I am seeing others say it would have been a TD or the half yard line.  

Either way you needed 11, and getting the TD would have gotten us closer to that than kicking the FG.

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8 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

There were more than enough attempts against the Vikings.  It took some all-time stupid playcalling by Mike LaFleur with every trip and the Berrios drop to f*ck that up.

This week, there were less, but it’s not like Buffalo had a ton either, and they had the benefit of CJ Mosely committing one of the dumbest penalties I have ever seen a player commit, and a turnover.  Even with all that, I don’t know if they had more redzone trips than we did.  When we did get into the redzone, Zonovan Knight scored, Michael Carter fumbled, and Berrios let a pass doink off of his facemask.  I’m not going to blame Mike White for Michael Carters fumble or for Berrios being in over other, more talented, players so he can make another mistake.  Anyone who has watched the last 3 games we have played can tell you that QB has not been the major issue.  It has been other, mostly self-inflicted wounds, by other positions/coaches.

I’m not saying white is the issue as to why we are losing. The problem is that he’s not overcoming these issues. People on here want him to be the qb next year. I want a qb who can come in clutch and overcome adversity and score at any moment. White just hasn’t shown to be able to do that. 

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15 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

I’m not saying white is the issue as to why we are losing. The problem is that he’s not overcoming these issues. People on here want him to be the qb next year. I want a qb who can come in clutch and overcome diversity and score at any moment. White just hasn’t shown to be able to do that. 

My guy, you aren’t going to find many QBs averaging 317 yards a game, ~ a 62% completion percentage, at 7.4 YPA, let alone one who can put those numbers up and consistently overcome the mistakes of their teammates, to do more.  There are, maybe, 3 guys in the league who can do that, and they don’t do it as often as you think they do.  The only one who could maybe do that time and time again is Mahomes.  It’s not like White is stat padding in blowouts either.  He’s 1-2 this season, keeping the Jets in games with 2 of the best teams in the NFL.  Both losses were one score losses and, as discussed, Berrios definitely cost White/the Jets a win against the Vikings.  This Bills game?  I think Buffalo still pulls it out, but who knows how the tides shift if they score a TD instead of taking the field goal.

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13 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

My guy, you aren’t going to find many QBs averaging 317 yards a game, ~ a 62% completion percentage, at 7.4 YPA, let alone one who can put those numbers up and consistently overcome the mistakes of their teammates, to do more.  There are, maybe, 3 guys in the league who can do that, and they don’t do it as often as you think they do.  The only one who could maybe do that time and time again is Mahomes.

Perhaps some may think I’m crazy, but Daniel Jones has 200 y/g completion % of 66, 12 passing tds and 4 rushing 548 rushing yards 4 ints with much worse receiving talent around him. Stick him on this team and I think he’ll shine 

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Just now, BurntDice said:

Perhaps some may think I’m crazy, but Daniel Jones has 200 y/g completion % of 66, 12 passing tds and 4 rushing 522 rushing yards with much worse receiving talent around him. Stick him on this team and I think he’ll shine 

He’s actually averaging 182 which is almost half of what White is averaging, but I get your point. I don’t think he would be an upgrade to White, for a number of reasons, but I do think that Jones is someone that gets sh*t on way more than he deserves, and the Giants set him up to fail this year.

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15 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

He’s actually averaging 182 which is almost half of what White is averaging, but I get your point. I don’t think he would be an upgrade to White, for a number of reasons, but I do think that Jones is someone that gets sh*t on way more than he deserves, and the Giants set him up to fail this year.

The giants have really screwed him. It’s unfortunate. A huge plus for white in his yards is the YAC which is 7.5 for him. Jones is only getting 5.2. Those 2+ yards extra per catch really add up and he’s been throwing it a ton more than jones. White had 43 attempts/g vs jones 28. Enhancing the talent around him imo with what the jets have could do wonders. 

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40 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I would have to rewatch it to be certain, but I’m pretty sure it would have been a TD.  I’m trying to find the play on Twitter, but can’t.  However, I am seeing others say it would have been a TD or the half yard line.  

Either way you needed 11, and getting the TD would have gotten us closer to that than kicking the FG.

Kicking the field goal left more time on the clock. Jets were playing w confidence

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56 minutes ago, Irktusk1957 said:

Kicking the field goal left more time on the clock. Jets were playing w confidence

Oh, I know.  I’m in the minority, but I was fine with the FG in that situation.  That being said, I’m pretty sure the Berrios drop would have been a TD and that, obviously, would have been ideal.

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1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

Oh, I know.  I’m in the minority, but I was fine with the FG in that situation.  That being said, I’m pretty sure the Berrios drop would have been a TD and that, obviously, would have been ideal.

Did you prefer the FG there though?  There wasn't that much time left and a TD (with 2 pointer) would've made it far easier to come back after a 3-and-out by the defense (presumably with 0 timeouts left).

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27 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Did you prefer the FG there though?  There wasn't that much time left and a TD (with 2 pointer) would've made it far easier to come back after a 3-and-out by the defense (presumably with 0 timeouts left).

Yes.  Especially if I factor in how bad the Jets have been in 4th & 1 situations this year.

Ultimately, it was the right choice.  You had 50 seconds and a TO to go down and score.  They just didn’t pull it off.

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7 hours ago, Mogglez said:

If you’re going to throw flags the way they have to protect Brady, Mac Jones, Allen, Mahomes, and numerous other QBs, then yes, that is a flag.  I am so sick and f*cking tired of being told to just “accept” that there is preferential treatment in the league.  Throw the same flags for everyone, or don’t throw the f*cking flag at all.

LMFAOOOOOOOOOO.

This league is such a joke.

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I was at the game and drove through snow both ways to get there and back to Albany.  The conditions early on were atrocious — a cold rain driven by a steady more or less 10-15 mph wind against the Jets in the first period.  Both QBs had problems with that for most of the first half until the Bills broke through near the end of the 2nd period.  It actually was better once the rain turned to snow and the wind died down.  The Jets needed to play error free ball.  They played well but made key mistakes — Mosely’s offside and Carter’s fumble.  The Bills defense was much better in this game than in the first and while both Ds were very physical, the Bills were more so.  From my vantage point, I though at least one hit on White should’ve flagged, maybe two; but have to admit I haven’t seen the replays so could be wrong.  Helmet to helmet is illegal, but is helmet to sternum?  It’s the NFL so probably not.  If not for the fumble, the Jets actually might’ve pulled this one out.  That was a killer.  The Jet D lost contain on Allen at key points, but otherwise they made him look ordinary again.  And Mike White?  Regardless of what you might think re: him vs. Zach, this kid has guts and pretty much left them all on the field.  Next year with more experience maybe this team wins at least 3 of the 4 losses that has left them 7-6.  But it’s not over yet by far and it’s capable of taking 3 of the next 4.  Either way, having see the Jets in Buffalo last year and this year, we can be proud of how far this has come and how close it is in just one year.  One man’s opinion.

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I was at the game and drove through snow both ways to get there and back to Albany.  The conditions early on were atrocious — a cold rain driven by a steady more or less 10-15 mph wind against the Jets in the first period.  Both QBs had problems with that for most of the first half until the Bills broke through near the end of the 2nd period.  It actually was better once the rain turned to snow and the wind died down.  The Jets needed to play error free ball.  They played well but made key mistakes — Mosely’s offside and Carter’s fumble.  The Bills defense was much better in this game than in the first and while both Ds were very physical, the Bills were more so.  From my vantage point, I though at least one hit on White should’ve flagged, maybe two; but have to admit I haven’t seen the replays so could be wrong.  Helmet to helmet is illegal, but is helmet to sternum?  It’s the NFL so probably not.  If not for the fumble, the Jets actually might’ve pulled this one out.  That was a killer.  The Jet D lost contain on Allen at key points, but otherwise they made him look ordinary again.  And Mike White?  Regardless of what you might think re: him vs. Zach, this kid has guts and pretty much left them all on the field.  Next year with more experience maybe this team wins at least 3 of the 4 losses that has left them 7-6.  But it’s not over yet by far and it’s capable of taking 3 of the next 4.  Either way, having see the Jets in Buffalo last year and this year, we can be proud of how far this has come and how close it is in just one year.  One man’s opinion.
Got back at 2 am .. yeah that drive sucked.

Regardless of anything else posted here about Mike White ...

That kids is tough and has balls. Can't take that away from him .. serious cahonies to keep coming back that beat up.



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13 hours ago, Mogglez said:

I would have to rewatch it to be certain, but I’m pretty sure it would have been a TD.  I’m trying to find the play on Twitter, but can’t.  However, I am seeing others say it would have been a TD or the half yard line.  

Either way you needed 11, and getting the TD would have gotten us closer to that than kicking the FG.

It was way behind the goal line, no way it was a TD. And he was TRIPLE teamed 

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21 hours ago, Mogglez said:

He’s actually averaging 182 which is almost half of what White is averaging, but I get your point. I don’t think he would be an upgrade to White, for a number of reasons, but I do think that Jones is someone that gets sh*t on way more than he deserves, and the Giants set him up to fail this year.

Daboll and staff have done a great job with him to help avoid the stupid turnovers. 

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