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Mike White


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6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

You don't get to "take away" things.  He was a factor in today's loss.

I like White, prefer him to Zach by a mile, but he's not an innocent victim.  He's part of why we've lost the last two.

I thought White’s performance today was the best of all 3. I know that sounds crazy but specifically, he was much more accurate with his ball placement today. Only 1 or 2 TWP, otherwise he was mostly on point or throwing away (a few balls late or in the dirt, but far less than the previous games). Otherwise, the only reason his yardage wasn’t there was because the Bills didn’t give up much YAC. 

I agree that he deserves blame, but it’s mostly due to his inability to evade pressure or make second-reaction plays… that’s just who he is though. It’s not like he significantly missed anything or made any boneheaded plays

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7 minutes ago, choon328 said:

They were blitzing 6 against 5 lineman so it does mean someone is coming free. Almost every time they went spread they blitzed. OC never adjusted to it

I don't know. The QB or guy on the line calling the protection might have done the wrong thing.  

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16 minutes ago, Warfish said:

You don't get to "take away" things.  He was a factor in today's loss.

I like White, prefer him to Zach by a mile, but he's not an innocent victim.  He's part of why we've lost the last two.

What didn’t you like from White this game? Curious what some of the things were that you thought caused this loss. 
 

IMO he takes too many unnecessary hits and sacks. But aside from that I think he played well with a Swiss cheese OL 

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Berrios was dreadful today, outside of one nice mid-range sideline catch.  Murdered us in field position today, especially early.

Mosely mistake was horrible, he had to know the fake count was likely there.

Carter's fumble was the death-nail in the coffin today.

So was Flacco's one play and fumble too.

The spineless call to kick the FG with 4th and 1, also a killer.

And the Jets complete lack of ability to run the ball in short, hard yardage situations has been killing us all year and killed us again today.

And yes, Mike White didn't do enough.  He has got to lead scoring drives, not just accumulate yardage.  Was a gutsy day, comming back from those brutal near-unblocked leveling hits, no question, but he has got to move away from being checkdown Charlie, and find ways to make more yards downfield, especially in crunch time.  Right now, if we're down late, it's a given we lose with MW.  Till he proves otherwise.

Well if its there he tries it if not he doesn't... its that simple.  In a few replays Romo pointed out how he was going through progressions and hitting his third choice. he also commented several times on his accuracy and throws... There are 10 other guys that need to execute... The OL was bad today - how many times did free runners get home or blitz got through, two fumbles - on when they were driving for a score (FG or TD).  MOsley play and carter 2 was bad.... and  to boot, they had NO spy on QB, why...that is how they contained him in the last game.  

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4 minutes ago, football guy said:

I thought White’s performance today was the best of all 3. I know that sounds crazy but specifically, he was much more accurate with his ball placement today. Only 1 or 2 TWP, otherwise he was mostly on point or throwing away (a few balls late or in the dirt, but far less than the previous games). Otherwise, the only reason his yardage wasn’t there was because the Bills didn’t give up much YAC. 

I agree that he deserves blame, but it’s mostly due to his inability to evade pressure or make second-reaction plays… that’s just who he is though. It’s not like he significantly missed anything or made any boneheaded plays

It's very simple, with every game of MW I watch, the limitations of his arm and his penchant for check downs, becomes more and more clear IMO.

For most of a game, that's not too worrisome, if he's finishing scoring drives.

But with the game on the line, 45 seconds left, and needing a TD to tie/win, he does not inspire confidence because of his limitations.

At least not yet.  I hope to see him play the next 4 games.  In no way am I supportive of removing him form the starting role (if he's ok/healthy).

 

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4 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

What didn’t you like from White this game? Curious what some of the things were that you thought caused this loss. 
 

IMO he takes too many unnecessary hits and sacks. But aside from that I think he played well with a Swiss cheese OL 

Too many drives where he throws an incompletion, we rush for a yard or two, and he very quickly throws a check down for 3 yards when we needed 8.

Very Chad Pennington-esque.

Now, in fairness, some of that may indeed be on LaFluer.  But it's also on White.

You cannot win taking no chances.

And again, he was lucky today to not have two or three more INT's.  Thank god for the poop weather. 

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4 minutes ago, football guy said:

I thought White’s performance today was the best of all 3. I know that sounds crazy but specifically, he was much more accurate with his ball placement today. Only 1 or 2 TWP, otherwise he was mostly on point or throwing away (a few balls late or in the dirt, but far less than the previous games). Otherwise, the only reason his yardage wasn’t there was because the Bills didn’t give up much YAC. 

I agree that he deserves blame, but it’s mostly due to his inability to evade pressure or make second-reaction plays… that’s just who he is though. It’s not like he significantly missed anything or made any boneheaded plays

People forget that he's played in like 7 games. There are skills that he will develop over time as he plays more. It's unfair to assume that he won't get better over time. The people who dislike him think this is as good as he'll get. I think they're wrong.  He's 27, there's a lot of football left. 

The one thing you can't teach is standing in the pocket and delivering a strike knowing you're about to get crushed. That's not a skill, that all balls.  He has to get better at covering his body after he throws the ball in order to brace a little more. 

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Just now, Warfish said:

It's very simple, with every game of MW I watch, the limitations of his arm and his penchant for check downs, becomes more and more clear IMO.

For most of a game, that's not too worrisome, if he's finishing scoring drives.

But with the game on the line, 45 seconds left, and needing a TD to tie/win, he does not inspire confidence because of his limitations.

At least not yet.  I hope to see him play the next 4 games.  In no way am I supportive of removing him form the starting role (if he's ok/healthy).

 

This is what I have always felt, but I think where a lot of fans are at odds is because they want to convince themselves he is more than he is. As a fanbase we’re setting the guy up to fail because our expectations of him have become unrealistic.

Daniel Jeremiah has a great analogy: truck vs. trailer… Mike White is a trailer. If things are not right around him, he does not have the kind of arm talent or athleticism to make up for it. Trailers can be solid starting QBs in spots, but tend to not be sustainably good. At  his age with his experience that’s not changing. Like Nick Foles, I think he can play really good on a really good team in this scheme. But if things fall apart around him he won’t be very good. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Too many drives where he throws an incompletion, we rush for a yard or two, and he very quickly throws a check down for 3 yards when we needed 8.

Very Chad Pennington-esque.

Now, in fairness, some of that may indeed be on LaFluer.  But it's also on White.

You cannot win taking no chances.

And again, he was lucky today to not have two or three more INT's.  Thank god for the poop weather. 

Unless I missed it, I didn’t see any throws that should have been an easy INT today??

I agree on the quick check downs. But I’ve also seen him stand in there and rip it for a big gain. So I’m not sure what the main cause of that is. 

Idk this game was lost on 3 key plays and turnovers by Carter, Flacco and Mosley. 
 

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It's very simple, with every game of MW I watch, the limitations of his arm and his penchant for check downs, becomes more and more clear IMO.
For most of a game, that's not too worrisome, if he's finishing scoring drives.
But with the game on the line, 45 seconds left, and needing a TD to tie/win, he does not inspire confidence because of his limitations.
At least not yet.  I hope to see him play the next 4 games.  In no way am I supportive of removing him form the starting role (if he's ok/healthy).
 

I think your spot on, said the thing about him and Pennington. He’s played extremely well in spots, most times efficient, but you have to score TD’s in this league to win. Also, he needs to run for a few yards when he can and does not. Part of the problem is ML and Saleh in terms of scheme/playcalling. Compared to Zachs’s performance against NE, White looks a little above average. Is that good enough to win games/make the playoffs? Not sure, but 2 losses and no TD’s in either game is concerning. As I mentioned, wins and losses are due to several factors, but absolving White the last 2 games of any blame is comical.


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16 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It's very simple, with every game of MW I watch, the limitations of his arm and his penchant for check downs, becomes more and more clear IMO.

For most of a game, that's not too worrisome, if he's finishing scoring drives.

But with the game on the line, 45 seconds left, and needing a TD to tie/win, he does not inspire confidence because of his limitations.

At least not yet.  I hope to see him play the next 4 games.  In no way am I supportive of removing him form the starting role (if he's ok/healthy).

 

I'm not really sure what game you watched.  Throwing downfield doesn't mean 40 yds, it means 15-20 yds. He threw a bunch of those, 2 of which were on outs to the wide side of the field which done would say is the roughest throw to make in the NFL.

Also, schematically, this offense is not a downfield throwing offense. It's a YAC offense. It's not important to hit his in rhythm and stride that to throw the ball 70 yds down the field. 

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2 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Unless I missed it, I didn’t see any throws that should have been an easy INT today??

I agree on the quick check downs. But I’ve also seen him stand in there and rip it for a big gain. So I’m not sure what the main cause of that is. 

Idk this game was lost on 3 key plays and turnovers by Carter, Flacco and Mosley. 
 

I don't disagree. White (as I've been saying) was A factor, not THE factor.  All those you list were larger issues than White.

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6 minutes ago, football guy said:

This is what I have always felt, but I think where a lot of fans are at odds is because they want to convince themselves he is more than he is. As a fanbase we’re setting the guy up to fail because our expectations of him have become unrealistic.

Daniel Jeremiah has a great analogy: truck vs. trailer… Mike White is a trailer. If things are not right around him, he does not have the kind of arm talent or athleticism to make up for it. Trailers can be solid starting QBs in spots, but tend to not be sustainably good. At  his age with his experience that’s not changing. Like Nick Foles, I think he can play really good on a really good team in this scheme. But if things fall apart around him he won’t be very good. 

 

Things are literally falling apart around him right now and we’ve still come within 1 score of two of the best teams in the league. 

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8 minutes ago, football guy said:

This is what I have always felt, but I think where a lot of fans are at odds is because they want to convince themselves he is more than he is. As a fanbase we’re setting the guy up to fail because our expectations of him have become unrealistic.

Daniel Jeremiah has a great analogy: truck vs. trailer… Mike White is a trailer. If things are not right around him, he does not have the kind of arm talent or athleticism to make up for it. Trailers can be solid starting QBs in spots, but tend to not be sustainably good. At  his age with his experience that’s not changing. Like Nick Foles, I think he can play really good on a really good team in this scheme. But if things fall apart around him he won’t be very good. 

 

Its possible to prop up QBs and win a lot of games, look at the 49ers, but your coaching staff and front office have to be top notch. 

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This is what I have always felt, but I think where a lot of fans are at odds is because they want to convince themselves he is more than he is. As a fanbase we’re setting the guy up to fail because our expectations of him have become unrealistic.
Daniel Jeremiah has a great analogy: truck vs. trailer… Mike White is a trailer. If things are not right around him, he does not have the kind of arm talent or athleticism to make up for it. Trailers can be solid starting QBs in spots, but tend to not be sustainably good. At  his age with his experience that’s not changing. Like Nick Foles, I think he can play really good on a really good team in this scheme. But if things fall apart around him he won’t be very good. 
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I think that’s accurate


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8 minutes ago, choon328 said:

People forget that he's played in like 7 games. There are skills that he will develop over time as he plays more. It's unfair to assume that he won't get better over time.

I was going to use a stronger word than "unfair" on the better over time thought, as many are doing just that. But we'll leave it at that.

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2 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Things are literally falling apart around him right now and we’ve still come within 1 score of two of the best teams in the league. 

There is nothing we can do about it this season, but we've gone past the point of moral victories. 

'It' being the QB position. We can address it in the off-season. 

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3 minutes ago, choon328 said:

People forget that he's played in like 7 games. There are skills that he will develop over time as he plays more. It's unfair to assume that he won't get better over time. The people who dislike him think this is as good as he'll get. I think they're wrong.  He's 27, there's a lot of football left. 

The one thing you can't teach is standing in the pocket and delivering a strike knowing you're about to get crushed. That's not a skill, that all balls.  He has to get better at covering his body after he throws the ball in order to brace a little more. 

I don’t think so personally, nor do I think it’s because people “dislike” him. He can be better statistically and more consistently but I don’t believe its because he’s necessarily making leaps and bounds jumps in his own development, rather, the team around him is getting better. Sure, he can improve his pocket presence and I’m sure it will improve, but if anything he’s simply learning how to throw it away faster or take less big hits, but it’s not like he’s going to become a pocket manueving wizard… a lot of that comes down foot speed and athleticism, which he is lacking.

White is who he is… It’s not like he has the kind of arm talent or athletic profile that inspires you to believe he can be a lot more than what he is. He’s a see it, throw it passer who is mostly decisive with his reads and throws. He’s read 1-read 2 check down point guard but unable to make second reaction plays. He typically sticks to the pretermined hot but he has shown he can quickly get to his second option if he needs to, but the longer he holds it the more worried you get for a variety of reasons. I think he can be a starter in certain situations but I can’t ever see a team making him the long-term “franchise” QB. 

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17 minutes ago, the Claw said:

You know what you’re doing. Perhaps choose another way of doing it. Just something to consider.

Saying someone is a dick rider is not saying they actually ride dicks. It means they're in love with him and make excuses for him and then trolls anybody who says any different. 

Now, if I actually meant that they ride penises, that's also not offensive.  There is nothing anti-gay in that sentence at all. I'm just stating an opinion on what they do.  I'm not judging that action. You're creating the drama by being a wuss. Now shoo

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6 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Things are literally falling apart around him right now and we’ve still come within 1 score of two of the best teams in the league. 

Our defense is stellar. I personally think it’s the best in the NFL. I don’t care what the stats say… if we had a more consistent offense, I think we could ride the defense to a Super Bowl victory. I feel like I say it a lot but if we could merge Mike White and Zach Wilson, we would be Super Bowl favorites. 

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I don’t think so personally, nor do I think it’s because people “dislike” him. He can be better statistically and more consistently but I don’t believe its because he’s necessarily making leaps and bounds jumps in his own development, rather, the team around him is getting better. Sure, he can improve his pocket presence and I’m sure it will improve, but if anything he’s simply learning how to throw it away faster or take less big hits, but it’s not like he’s going to become a pocket manueving wizard… a lot of that comes down foot speed and athleticism, which he is lacking.
White is who he is… It’s not like he has the kind of arm talent or athletic profile that inspires you to believe he can be a lot more than what he is. He’s a see it, throw it passer who is mostly decisive with his reads and throws. He’s read 1-read 2 check down point guard but unable to make second reaction plays. He typically sticks to the pretermined hot but he has shown he can quickly get to his second option if he needs to, but the longer he holds it the more worried you get for a variety of reasons. I think he can be a starter in certain situations but I can’t ever see a team making him the long-term “franchise” QB. 

Well stated, he reminds me of a Pennington/Gannon type of QB. Our D is outstanding, but not at a SF level. Put him on that team, then I think he goes deep into the playoffs. He needs an exceptional D and a strong running game to stomp out the other team and then he can pass as need be. The best example would be the Bears game.
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6 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Saying someone is a dick rider is not saying they actually ride dicks. It means they're in love with him and make excuses for him and then trolls anybody who says any different. 

Now, if I actually meant that they ride penises, that's also not offensive.  There is nothing anti-gay in that sentence at all. I'm just stating an opinion on what they do.  I'm not judging that action. You're creating the drama by being a wuss. Now shoo

Schitts Creek Comedy GIF by CBC

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25 minutes ago, football guy said:

I don’t think so personally, nor do I think it’s because people “dislike” him. He can be better statistically and more consistently but I don’t believe its because he’s necessarily making leaps and bounds jumps in his own development, rather, the team around him is getting better. Sure, he can improve his pocket presence and I’m sure it will improve, but if anything he’s simply learning how to throw it away faster or take less big hits, but it’s not like he’s going to become a pocket manueving wizard… a lot of that comes down foot speed and athleticism, which he is lacking.

White is who he is… It’s not like he has the kind of arm talent or athletic profile that inspires you to believe he can be a lot more than what he is. He’s a see it, throw it passer who is mostly decisive with his reads and throws. He’s read 1-read 2 check down point guard but unable to make second reaction plays. He typically sticks to the pretermined hot but he has shown he can quickly get to his second option if he needs to, but the longer he holds it the more worried you get for a variety of reasons. I think he can be a starter in certain situations but I can’t ever see a team making him the long-term “franchise” QB. 

You just gave me the scouting report for Tom Brady his first few years in the league.  Averaged 37 sacks taken his first 3 years as a starter. Terribly unathletic with slow footwork in the pocket that he got better at over time. Slightly above average arm strength,  check down Charlie. His down field throwing was great with Moss, not so great without him. For a long time Brady was thought to be a system QB. Quick read with option routes to guys like Welker and Edelman. He averaged 6.6 y/a in those seasons, good for last in the NFL this year. He's also currently last in the NFL in y/a in a system with 2 All-Pro WRs. 

Mike White is NOT Tom Brady, but your assessment that you have to be athletic, and have Elite arm strength to be successful or a franchise QB in the NFL at QB is not correct. If thats all it took Zach Wilson would be an All-Pro this year. 

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39 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Too many drives where he throws an incompletion, we rush for a yard or two, and he very quickly throws a check down for 3 yards when we needed 8.

Very Chad Pennington-esque.

Now, in fairness, some of that may indeed be on LaFluer.  But it's also on White.

You cannot win taking no chances.

And again, he was lucky today to not have two or three more INT's.  Thank god for the poop weather. 

I see your point and it bears watching but Mike White is making legit star QB throws throughout the game. Throws that announcers like Romo gush over.

And he's making these throws whenever he's given the chance to actually drop back and go intermediate/downfield. 

IMO, LaFleur has no idea what he's doing in the redzone regardless of who the QB is. Is also predictable and conservative regardless of where they are on the field. 

Also doesnt help the Jets lack a power running Oline that mauls or a legit red zone big body receiver. 

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2 minutes ago, choon328 said:

You just gave me the scouting report for Tom Brady his first few years in the league.  Averaged 37 sacks taken his first 3 years as a starter. Terribly unathletic with slow footwork in the pocket that he got better at over time. Slightly above average arm strength,  check down Charlie. His down field throwing was great with Moss, not so great without him. For a long time Brady was thought to be a system QB. Quick read with option routes to guys like Welker and Edelman. He averaged 6.6 y/a in those seasons, good for last in the NFL this year. 

Mike White is NOT Tom Brady, but your assessment that you have to be athletic, and have Elite arm strength to be successful or a franchise QB in the NFL at QB is not correct. If thats all it took Zach Wilson would be an All-Pro this year. 

Yup.

Mike White has all the tools to be a great QB/kirk cousins type. Like Romo said, he is calm, goes through progressions fast and throws well. He moves very well in the pocket to evade the rush, as well. 

The athletic QB trend is nice and all but how many of those guys have won superbowls? Mahomes? Anyone else?

 

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2 minutes ago, choon328 said:

You just gave me the scouting report for Tom Brady his first few years in the league.  Averaged 37 sacks taken his first 3 years as a starter. Terribly unathletic with slow footwork in the pocket that he got better at over time. Slightly above average arm strength,  check down Charlie. His down field throwing was great with Moss, not so great without him. For a long time Brady was thought to be a system QB. Quick read with option routes to guys like Welker and Edelman. He averaged 6.6 y/a in those seasons, good for last in the NFL this year. 

Mike White is NOT Tom Brady, but your assessment that you have to be athletic, and have Elite arm strength to be successful or a franchise QB in the NFL at QB is not correct. If thats all it took Zach Wilson would be an All-Pro this year. 

Now we’re comparing Mike White to the greatest QB of all time simply because they are both slow, while ignoring Brady’s brilliant pocket movement and spatial awareness. I give up 

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2 minutes ago, Barton said:

Yup.

Mike White has all the tools to be a great QB/kirk cousins type. Like Romo said, he is calm, goes through progressions fast and throws well. He moves very well in the pocket to evade the rush, as well. 

The athletic QB trend is nice and all but how many of those guys have won superbowls? Mahomes? Anyone else?

 

I don’t disagree with any of this but him having to come out after every time he gets hit is a huge problem. I don’t know how you fix that. 

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1 minute ago, football guy said:

Now we’re comparing Mike White to the greatest QB of all time simply because they are both slow, while ignoring Brady’s brilliant pocket movement and spatial awareness. I give up 

Mike White senses the rush pretty well, man. He has shown he can slide or step up in the pocket. I havent seen him pull a Flacco or Wilson and stand there like he's blind and get the ball stripped. 

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36 minutes ago, football guy said:

t’s not like he has the kind of arm talent or athletic profile that

LOL “football guy”

Athletic profile means little at the QB position:

Big Ben

Peyton

Eli

Brady

Rivers

Montana

Marino

Simms

All tremendously twitched up and run like the wind, right 

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2 minutes ago, Barton said:

Yup.

Mike White has all the tools to be a great QB/kirk cousins type. Like Romo said, he is calm, goes through progressions fast and throws well. He moves very well in the pocket to evade the rush, as well. 

The athletic QB trend is nice and all but how many of those guys have won superbowls? Mahomes? Anyone else?

 

The problem is people believe that a typical Franchise QB is Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes.  Those two are the elite of the elite, they are so rare and so hard to find yet that is what people judge other QBs potential against. Nobody will be good enough under those expectations. 

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1 minute ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

LOL “football guy”

Athletic profile means little at the QB position:

Big Ben

Peyton

Eli

Brady

Rivers

Montana

Marino

All tremendously twitched up and run like the wind, right 

They all had superior athletic profiles and significantly superior arm talent than Mike White has. What’s your point?

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58 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

What didn’t you like from White this game? Curious what some of the things were that you thought caused this loss. 
 

IMO he takes too many unnecessary hits and sacks. But aside from that I think he played well with a Swiss cheese OL 

this is exactly what we were ripping our hair out over w ZW and exactly why he always cut and run. Standing in there to deliver the strike and taking the hit is a trip to the hospital 

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