The Jets can win BIG with Mike White in 2023, provided a few things ..

[slats]

11 hours ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

The narrative for Zach-cucks is over.  I don't know what list of top 64 QBs you have but I'd be interested in seeing it, and I'd argue Zach Wilson wouldn't deserve a spot on it.

No one was talking about Zach. You’re the one who brought him up. If he has any true believers left, they’ve all gone quiet. This is a thread about Mike White. 
 
I understand the love for White. He’s generally reading the field well and taking what the defense gives him, and he’s got the guts of a much more durable man. He’s got it between between the ears. What he lacks is natural ability. His athleticism in general, and arm in particular, are at the bottom end of the league. He’s similar to Ryan Fitzpatrick, who also got a lot of love around here once upon a time but never established himself as a true starting NFL QB. Or Chad, who also put up good looking numbers throwing to his outlets. He’s certainly not the only issue on the team, and put in a gutsy performance yesterday after coming up too short against a porous Vikings defense last week, but big picture… ? 
 
White’s a free agent after this season. If you want him to be the QB next year, first you have to pay him. For those purposes I’m not comparing him to Zach, I’m comparing him to every other QB option available. White’s presumed contract value has declined considerably since crushing a weak Bears team just a couple weeks ago, when there was actually some talk of slapping a franchise tag on him. Now I think we’re starting to see what he is: a high-end backup. A guy who can step in and win a game or two, but not someone who’s gonna be the guy. 
 
Zach is a complicating factor only because he’s got a guaranteed contract with a decent amount of money coming to him for the next couple years. If they’re going to pay another QB to compete(?) with him next year, I want someone better than Mike White. And make no mistake, I’d be content if the Jets traded Zach for whatever they can get and just moved on, but I just don’t see White being that move. It’s been a good story. 

[BurntDice]

2 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

We almost beat buffalo on their home field.. we are hurting on OL. Anyone who thinks Zach would have won game is completely psycho 

I never said Zach would win. Could he have? Who knows 

[genot]

8 minutes ago, slats said:

No one was talking about Zach. You’re the one who brought him up. If he has any true believers left, they’ve all gone quiet. This is a thread about Mike White. 
 
I understand the love for White. He’s generally reading the field well and taking what the defense gives him, and he’s got the guts of a much more durable man. He’s got it between between the ears. What he lacks is natural ability. His athleticism in general, and arm in particular, are at the bottom end of the league. He’s similar to Ryan Fitzpatrick, who also got a lot of love around here once upon a time but never established himself as a true starting NFL QB. Or Chad, who also put up good looking numbers throwing to his outlets. He’s certainly not the only issue on the team, and put in a gutsy performance yesterday after coming up too short against a porous Vikings defense last week, but big picture… ? 
 
White’s a free agent after this season. If you want him to be the QB next year, first you have to pay him. For those purposes I’m not comparing him to Zach, I’m comparing him to every other QB option available. White’s presumed contract value has declined considerably since crushing a weak Bears team just a couple weeks ago, when there was actually some talk of slapping a franchise tag on him. Now I think we’re starting to see what he is: a high-end backup. A guy who can step in and win a game or two, but not someone who’s gonna be the guy. 
 
Zach is a complicating factor only because he’s got a guaranteed contract with a decent amount of money coming to him for the next couple years. If they’re going to pay another QB to compete(?) with him next year, I want someone better than Mike White. And make no mistake, I’d be content if the Jets traded Zach for whatever they can get and just moved on, but I just don’t see White being that move. It’s been a good story. 

White has a great arm. Anybody who says otherwise is sadly mistaken.

[jayrad01]

13 hours ago, Maynard13 said:

Zach was cut off active list. 3 games thus far. Probably be back next week. Carter will be a memory for rest of the year after that killer fumble. Saleh has zero tolerance for that pitiful type of poop ? play. 

What do you mean Saleh has zero tolerance for this type of play? He does nothing when these guys commit penalties or turnovers. Carter played yesterday after the fumble. These guys would be benched if belichimp was their coach. Corey Davis, starts out with penalties in almost every game and there is zero accountability. Carter was laughing after his fumble. He should have never left the bench after that. 

[slats]

3 minutes ago, genot said:

White has a great arm. Anybody who says otherwise is sadly mistaken.

Sorry man, not even close. By referring to it as below average, I was being kind. 

[greasyt]

He reminds me very much of Chad Pennington.  He checks down a lot.............and the throws downfield leave you holding your breath because they take a long tome to get there.  It seems that he is throwing to the sidelines quite often on the longer throws which leads me to believe the defense is intentionally taking away the middle of the field..........just like they did against Pennington.  I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think its sustainable  long term.

[VJphillyfan]

Zach-Cucks lol

[Dunnie]

Zach-Cucks lol

... Are you a bot ? Just asking because I swear I've seen you post this before 395 times.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Dunnie]

White has a great arm. Anybody who says otherwise is sadly mistaken.

Saw him live yesterday up close ... Kid can spin it for sure .. definitely NFL caliber arm .. but not a canon.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[VJphillyfan]

Just now, Dunnie said:

... Are you a bot ? Just asking because I swear I've seen you post this before 500 times.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

 

[Dunnie]

How many drops does he have this season?  Two?  And wasn't one of them on the first pass of the year?  So he's got one drop on his last 47 targets?  We call this "hands of stone" now?

... had to laugh at this ... Well said my man ... Corey Davis is an excellent receiver.

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[Dunnie]

 

.. bot post 396

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[genot]

8 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Saw him live yesterday up close ... Kid can spin it for sure .. definitely NFL caliber arm .. but not a canon.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

He's no Josh Allen. But throwing a sideline pass across the field with zip and accuracy, pretty much tells you he can make any throw you can think of. 

[bonkertons]

I do believe he can be the guy as well.  I think with time and a reliable running game he can actually be pretty damn good - upper end of the league as far as QB's go.  

 

I think we have to bring in a veteran OL.  Someone solid and reliable, like a Conklin type.  This team's version of Faneca to kind of anchor the line and help provide a steady presence alongside these young guys.  

 

I don't necessarily disagree on Davis, although I don't think we have to spend another high pick on a WR.  There are always solid options available, and I don't think we need a "star".  Wilson, Moore, _______, Mims, Berrios, late-round rookie.  That looks fine to me.  I do think we need a TE that can actually be a threat in the red zone though.  Hopefully Ruckert can eventually be that guy.

 

I think you sign Conklin, you draft your new long-term Center in the 2nd round, and you replace Davis with a similar type player who you expect to be on the field every week - and let's ******* go.  White will have the running game next year with Breece and Knight.  Our young star WR with yet another year of experience.  The potential for an elite offense is there.

[Darnold's Forehead]

23 minutes ago, slats said:

No one was talking about Zach. You’re the one who brought him up. If he has any true believers left, they’ve all gone quiet. This is a thread about Mike White. 
 
I understand the love for White. He’s generally reading the field well and taking what the defense gives him, and he’s got the guts of a much more durable man. He’s got it between between the ears. What he lacks is natural ability. His athleticism in general, and arm in particular, are at the bottom end of the league. He’s similar to Ryan Fitzpatrick, who also got a lot of love around here once upon a time but never established himself as a true starting NFL QB. Or Chad, who also put up good looking numbers throwing to his outlets. He’s certainly not the only issue on the team, and put in a gutsy performance yesterday after coming up too short against a porous Vikings defense last week, but big picture… ? 
 
White’s a free agent after this season. If you want him to be the QB next year, first you have to pay him. For those purposes I’m not comparing him to Zach, I’m comparing him to every other QB option available. White’s presumed contract value has declined considerably since crushing a weak Bears team just a couple weeks ago, when there was actually some talk of slapping a franchise tag on him. Now I think we’re starting to see what he is: a high-end backup. A guy who can step in and win a game or two, but not someone who’s gonna be the guy. 
 
Zach is a complicating factor only because he’s got a guaranteed contract with a decent amount of money coming to him for the next couple years. If they’re going to pay another QB to compete(?) with him next year, I want someone better than Mike White. And make no mistake, I’d be content if the Jets traded Zach for whatever they can get and just moved on, but I just don’t see White being that move. It’s been a good story. 

This fanbase is littered with people who still salivate over Zach starting, all you need to do is look at any other form of social media (which I do not recommend.)  There are still people here as well; obviously they are quiet now because they have zero basis for what they want.

For you to close the door on White when he has 4 games left and playoff aspirations is astounding.  And another arm strength non sequitur, please point me to plays so far where White’s “lack of arm strength” has been a major issue.  Is it because he can’t do the throw from Zach’s pro day?  Look where that got us.  The obsession with immeasurables when this team has had 2 not terrible QBs in the last 20 years is mind-boggling.  I will take decent QB play when I can get it.

To your FA point, I agree.  We need to compare him to Jackson, Garropollo & Carr who will demand obscene amounts of $$ for their play.  Garropollo & Carr are upgrades but the upgrade in play is not directly proportional to the upgrade in cost.  The others are Sam Darnold, Daniel Jones, Tom “Father Time” Brady, Jacoby Bridgett, Teddy Bridgewater, Cooper Rush, Geno Smith & Baker Mayfield.  Not a great list save for a few.

I’m not saying Mike White is better than all those FAs, but I think it’s only fair to let him finish the season so he can be fairly evaluated instead of hanging him up and hoping for someone like Daniel Jones (LOL)

[Dunnie]

I do believe he can be the guy as well.  I think with time and a reliable running game he can actually be pretty damn good - upper end of the league as far as QB's go.  
 
I think we have to bring in a veteran OL.  Someone solid and reliable, like a Conklin type.  This team's version of Faneca to kind of anchor the line and help provide a steady presence alongside these young guys.  
 
I don't necessarily disagree on Davis, although I don't think we have to spend another high pick on a WR.  There are always solid options available, and I don't think we need a "star".  Wilson, Moore, _______, Mims, Berrios, late-round rookie.  That looks fine to me.  I do think we need a TE that can actually be a threat in the red zone though.  Hopefully Ruckert can eventually be that guy.
 
I think you sign Conklin, you draft your new long-term Center in the 2nd round, and you replace Davis with a similar type player who you expect to be on the field every week - and let's ******* go.  White will have the running game next year with Breece and Knight.  Our young star WR with yet another year of experience.  The potential for an elite offense is there.

I think we need a big bodied no. 2 that can catch with his hands .. win contested balls with consistency.

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[Dunnie]

This fanbase is littered with people who still salivate over Zach starting, all you need to do is look at any other form of social media (which I do not recommend.)  There are still people here as well; obviously they are quiet now because they have zero basis for what they want.
For you to close the door on White when he has 4 games left and playoff aspirations is astounding.  And another arm strength non sequitur, please point me to plays so far where White’s “lack of arm strength” has been a major issue.  Is it because he can’t do the throw from Zach’s pro day?  Look where that got us.  The obsession with immeasurables when this team has had 2 not terrible QBs in the last 20 years is mind-boggling.  I will take decent QB play when I can get it.
To your FA point, I agree.  We need to compare him to Jackson, Garropollo & Carr who will demand obscene amounts of $$ for their play.  Garropollo & Carr are upgrades but the upgrade in play is not directly proportional to the upgrade in cost.  The others are Sam Darnold, Daniel Jones, Tom “Father Time” Brady, Jacoby Bridgett, Teddy Bridgewater, Cooper Rush, Geno Smith & Baker Mayfield.  Not a great list save for a few.
I’m not saying Mike White is better than all those FAs, but I think it’s only fair to let him finish the season so he can be fairly evaluated instead of hanging him up and hoping for someone like Daniel Jones (LOL)

I definitely want to see Zach back competing to get his job back .. why the heck would you not want him to improve to that degree ? Unless you just don't like him for some reason. I don't think anyone wants him to be handed the keys back.

I think next summer will be Zac, White and a yet to be determined vet or prospect competing to start.

Minshew ?

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[Darnold's Forehead]

6 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

I definitely want to see Zach back competing to get his job back .. why the heck would you not want him to improve to that degree ? Unless you just don't like him for some reason. I don't think anyone wants him to be handed the keys back.

I think next summer will be Zac, White and a yet to be determined vet or prospect competing to start.

Minshew ?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk


 

I agree, Zach should be back competing in the off season.  He should be the back-up next week.

That being said he will have a very short leash.  You can’t pay money to bring in a vet or bring White back and justify starting Zach if he doesn’t improve.

I think Zach only started as long as he did because the preconceived notion was that both Flacco and White sucked.  That will not be the case next year (hopefully).

[Dunnie]

I agree, Zach should be back competing in the off season.  He should be the back-up next week.
That being said he will have a very short leash.  You can’t pay money to bring in a vet or bring White back and justify starting Zach if he doesn’t improve.
I think Zach only started as long as he did because the preconceived notion was that both Flacco and White sucked.  That will not be the case next year (hopefully).

Totally agree.

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[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

The debate on White has narrowed.  Most here would rate him anywhere from a high end backup to a quality starter you can win with if he had the right supporting cast.  Many who believe he can be a quality starter have legitimate concerns he can hold up.  

The great thing is White has surpassed the expectations of most after the roller coaster ride last year where many views on him went too high and then too low.  

I try to throw out my prior opinions & current emotions + the player’s draft status & individual game statistics AND simply look at the tape in forming new opinions.  At this point, I truly believe opinions on White would be different if players around him didn’t leave plays on the field.  (The 4th quarter slant to Berrios yesterday hit him right in the hands.  Michael Carter kills a drive with a careless fumble.   CJ Mosley does the unthinkable Jets fans are unfortunately all too familiar with.)

—————————————-

Back to White’s progress:

1. FROM just a check down guy TO a guy who can make tight window throws further down the field

2. FROM a game manager TO a guy who has a bit of gunslinger in him, someone who can lead 4th quarter rallies with the ball in his hands

3. FROM a guy who threw 4 INT against the Bills at home TO a guy who didn’t throw a pick at Buffalo in bad weather under enormous pressure 

4. FROM a guy who couldn’t finish a game after hurting his pinkie against Indy TO a guy who kept coming back into the game with hurt (broken?) ribs against Buffalo 

5. FROM a guy who sometimes takes the check down a little to early (eg, last week had Mims open on a deep slant; yesterday Moore broke open on a corner) TO __________________

Room for improvement?  YES

Book completely written?  NO

But I’m absolutely loving his progress after only a handful of starts, most against good teams (2021 Cincy/Indy/Buffalo; 2022 Minny/Buffalo).

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

20 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

I definitely want to see Zach back competing to get his job back .. why the heck would you not want him to improve to that degree ? Unless you just don't like him for some reason. I don't think anyone wants him to be handed the keys back.

I think next summer will be Zac, White and a yet to be determined vet or prospect competing to start.

Minshew ?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk


 

We won’t be able to afford White and Minshew. We really need realistic options and that is one or the other.  

[slats]

11 minutes ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

This fanbase is littered with people who still salivate over Zach starting, all you need to do is look at any other form of social media (which I do not recommend.)  There are still people here as well; obviously they are quiet now because they have zero basis for what they want.

For you to close the door on White when he has 4 games left and playoff aspirations is astounding.  And another arm strength non sequitur, please point me to plays so far where White’s “lack of arm strength” has been a major issue.  Is it because he can’t do the throw from Zach’s pro day?  Look where that got us.  The obsession with immeasurables when this team has had 2 not terrible QBs in the last 20 years is mind-boggling.  I will take decent QB play when I can get it.

To your FA point, I agree.  We need to compare him to Jackson, Garropollo & Carr who will demand obscene amounts of $$ for their play.  Garropollo & Carr are upgrades but the upgrade in play is not directly proportional to the upgrade in cost.  The others are Sam Darnold, Daniel Jones, Tom “Father Time” Brady, Jacoby Bridgett, Teddy Bridgewater, Cooper Rush, Geno Smith & Baker Mayfield.  Not a great list save for a few.

I’m not saying Mike White is better than all those FAs, but I think it’s only fair to let him finish the season so he can be fairly evaluated instead of hanging him up and hoping for someone like Daniel Jones (LOL)

Saleh says he’s starting this week if healthy, and if he was able to re-enter the game, I expect he will be. If he makes it thru that one, the Jets play the following Thursday night, and it’s highly unlikely that they’d change QBs on a short week so that would be the next two. Not much season left after that. The odds are probably in favor of him starting the rest of the way. My guess is that Zach will make his way back to #2 next week, though, with White getting banged up and Flacco not looking like much of an answer, either. That will give Saleh the chance to play Zach this season like he keeps saying he wants to do. 
 
His lack of arm strength has been a major issue the last couple weeks because where that really comes in handy is when you’re playing from behind. He had one completion yesterday that went more than 20 yards, and he pushed that one downfield. No one is afraid of him over the top, and that allows teams to stack the box against the running game and/or consistently get after his unathletic ass. All of his QB talent is between the ears and, don’t get me wrong here, that’s probably the most important one to have. But I do not see the physical ability (or perhaps durability) to be a #1. I see a guy who should have a long career as a nicely paid backup. 
 
I’d like to see the Jets bring in a QB they believe will be better than not only Zach next year, but also White. And I have trouble seeing how they’d be able to bring White back in that scenario. 

[the Claw]

3 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Look how bad our OL.. the guy is 1000 times better then zack.. wish we used more top picks on OL instead of wasting them on zach, darnold , and his trade ups cost

JD has used two first round picks on O line players since he got here. 

[Jetsplayer21]

11 minutes ago, the Claw said:

JD has used two first round picks on O line players since he got here. 

Yes. 1 he traded up for.. very smart, just too bad he is hurt. Other he definitely missed 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

13 minutes ago, slats said:

Saleh says he’s starting this week if healthy, and if he was able to re-enter the game, I expect he will be. If he makes it thru that one, the Jets play the following Thursday night, and it’s highly unlikely that they’d change QBs on a short week so that would be the next two. Not much season left after that. The odds are probably in favor of him starting the rest of the way. My guess is that Zach will make his way back to #2 next week, though, with White getting banged up and Flacco not looking like much of an answer, either. That will give Saleh the chance to play Zach this season like he keeps saying he wants to do. 
 
His lack of arm strength has been a major issue the last couple weeks because where that really comes in handy is when you’re playing from behind. He had one completion yesterday that went more than 20 yards, and he pushed that one downfield. No one is afraid of him over the top, and that allows teams to stack the box against the running game and/or consistently get after his unathletic ass. All of his QB talent is between the ears and, don’t get me wrong here, that’s probably the most important one to have. But I do not see the physical ability (or perhaps durability) to be a #1. I see a guy who should have a long career as a nicely paid backup. 
 
I’d like to see the Jets bring in a QB they believe will be better than not only Zach next year, but also White. And I have trouble seeing how they’d be able to bring White back in that scenario. 

Yesterdays deep passing game was likely a result of many things outside of arm strength:

1. Horrible weather

2. Very little time to throw

3. Hurt ribs

4. The return of Buffalo’s All Pro deep safety Poyer

 

White doesn’t have a strong arm by NFL standards but it’s strong enough.  This narrative will be put to bed soon enough.

[Matt39]

He’s 1-2, gets hurt every game, and doesn’t get the team in the end zone. He’s been a significant upgrade to Wilson but there’s nothing that indicates he’s the long term answer either just yet. The Mike White legend is more hype than production at the moment. Get the team to the playoffs and make it a game then we may have something.

[Zachtomims47]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

He’s 1-2, gets hurt every game, and doesn’t get the team in the end zone. He’s been a significant upgrade to Wilson but there’s nothing that indicates he’s the long term answer either just yet. The Mike White legend is more hype than production at the moment. Get the team to the playoffs and make it a game then we may have something.

Can't remember. Did he come out of the game against Chicago and Vikings?

[Matt39]

Just now, Zachtomims47 said:

Can't remember. Did he come out of the game against Chicago and Vikings?

Vikings game I believe he did.

[Zachtomims47]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Vikings game I believe he did.

Just checked. He played all the snaps. So...not every game. Just this Buffalo game where he came out because of battered ribs. But came back. Not bad.  

[JiF]

1 hour ago, slats said:

No one was talking about Zach. You’re the one who brought him up. If he has any true believers left, they’ve all gone quiet. This is a thread about Mike White. 
 
I understand the love for White. He’s generally reading the field well and taking what the defense gives him, and he’s got the guts of a much more durable man. He’s got it between between the ears. What he lacks is natural ability. His athleticism in general, and arm in particular, are at the bottom end of the league. He’s similar to Ryan Fitzpatrick, who also got a lot of love around here once upon a time but never established himself as a true starting NFL QB. Or Chad, who also put up good looking numbers throwing to his outlets. He’s certainly not the only issue on the team, and put in a gutsy performance yesterday after coming up too short against a porous Vikings defense last week, but big picture… ? 
 
White’s a free agent after this season. If you want him to be the QB next year, first you have to pay him. For those purposes I’m not comparing him to Zach, I’m comparing him to every other QB option available. White’s presumed contract value has declined considerably since crushing a weak Bears team just a couple weeks ago, when there was actually some talk of slapping a franchise tag on him. Now I think we’re starting to see what he is: a high-end backup. A guy who can step in and win a game or two, but not someone who’s gonna be the guy. 
 
Zach is a complicating factor only because he’s got a guaranteed contract with a decent amount of money coming to him for the next couple years. If they’re going to pay another QB to compete(?) with him next year, I want someone better than Mike White. And make no mistake, I’d be content if the Jets traded Zach for whatever they can get and just moved on, but I just don’t see White being that move. It’s been a good story. 

Interesting take and quite conclusive when it seems far from it from given a multitude of reasons that seem like obvious factors in the evaluation.  What happens if Mike White wins out, he continues playing well (lets not act like he's not) and they make the playoffs and get a win?  

Also curious how are you defining "natural talent" because it seems as though you're only using athleticism as criteria which is obviously not the only criteria.  Besides, his athleticism is on par with many of the all time greats and so is his arm, which I whole heartedly disagree w/ your take on, you dont throw darts on deep outs in a wintery mix vs. one of the best corners in the NFL if you dont have a strong arm.

The Jets have lost in back to back weeks vs. better Football teams on the road because they lost the turnover battle, not because of the QB.  The fun takeaway is actually, Mike White look like the better passer than both Kirk Cousins and Josh Allen in those outings. 

 

[T0mShane]

Ahhh, so here’s where all the aggrieved Zach dead-enders went. I do love how you start all these statements with “I get that Zach was bad, but…” and then sh*t on Mike White because you’re desperate to have that little consolation praise on the mantel if/when the Jets cast Wilson into the ocean. Have fun rooting against the Jets the rest of the way in support of a catastrophic draft bust. 

[Jetsplayer21]

1 hour ago, BurntDice said:

I never said Zach would win. Could he have? Who knows 

You wouldn’t bet your house on zach that’s for sure 

[Untouchable]

I don’t understand why it’s so hard for so many to grasp the fact that our franchise QB isn’t currently on the roster.

Wilson is a complete mess and White is limited and gets banged up constantly. Flacco and Streveler don’t even deserve mentioning.

The stuff people are saying about White is probably the same sh*t half the Vikings fanbase was saying about Case Keenum 5 years ago.

White has the look of a quality, longterm backup.

Committing to this dude for at least the next 2-3 years just because he looks more competent than Zach has all the makings of biting us square on the assh0le.

[slats]

14 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Yesterdays deep passing game was likely a result of many things outside of arm strength:

1. Horrible weather

2. Very little time to throw

3. Hurt ribs

4. The return of Buffalo’s All Pro deep safety Poyer

 

White doesn’t have a strong arm by NFL standards but it’s strong enough.  This narrative will be put to bed soon enough.

What was his excuse in a dome against the league’s #31 ranked defense last week? 
 
He has an NFL caliber arm. It just happens to be backup caliber. 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, slats said:

backup caliber. 

This doesn’t mean anything. By this metric, half the league should be “backups”