What is the Love Affair with Berrios? Lafleur is proving to be the weak link of this team...

[JetBlue]

I am concerned about Mike Lafleur and his love affair with Braxton Berrios.   
This is no knock on Berrios, but I think even the biggest Berrios fan would agree it would have made sense to have Mims in the game for that series.  

How do you not have a 6'3' guy with great hops, not even in the game.  Mims was having a decent game.  Why is Lafleur so afraid to use him in the read zone?  Because he dropped a td in the end zone last year?   Wide receivers drop end zone touchdowns all the time and their team goes back to them, often in the same game.  Berrios had a drop last week.  I know it was a tough catch but the bottom line is he could have and should have caught it. 
And you decide to throw to him in double coverage again.... Why?  Is perhaps a look at Moore, Wilson or (if he were in the game, maybe Mims}

I like the fact that White found Mims on a couple of key passes.  I hope that continues, we need all the weapons at our disposal if we are going to have a chance against Detroit.  I watched them do to Minn. what we could have done if we and just a few big plays resulting in touchdowns.  The fact that we could not score a TD in several crucial situations, has me looking at the playcalling and not Mike White.  He has to get better at looking down the field and delivering the ball down the field.  I want to see him improve in his deeper passing, with more attempts downfield. 

I know so many people have given up on him but Mims adds a nice complement to Moore and Wilson and we really need to see him targetd more, but especially in the red zone.     Let us see if Lafleur can get over his ego and look to get the ball to Mims or at least have him as part of the package in red zone situations.   I am not saying not to have Berrios on the field too, but if I'm looking to the end zone he is not going to be my first look.   

Again we need the entire team to contribute and Berrios has made his share of contributions, but I think Lafleur tends to get lazy in my opinion on his personnel.  I wish he could be more objective.   I like that Mims did have a few catches; hopefully that builds his confidence.  Unlike some fans, I want our highly drafted players to develop and I'm willing to give them opportunity.    It is another win in JD's cap if Mims can develop into a decent 3 or 4 receiver.  Especially if he can become a factor in the red zone also just looking for him down the field.  There has already been several times he has been wide open for touchdowns and the quarterback went to a different player.    

We all feel that this is a team on the rise; with some great young talent.  So far Ulbrich has risen to the Challenge.  Lafleur, not so much.  Btw, I would disingenous not acknowledge the lack of quality quarterback play for good parts of the season which as certaintly hampered what he could do.   Not to mention the devastating loss of Breece Hall.  I think he would have made Lafleur look like a genius.   

However It would really be great if he TRIED to get the ball DOWN THE FIELD more often in games.  We have the receiving talent and our offensive line has shown the ability to give White time.   To me his ability to successfully throw the ball down the field is the difference from him being someone decent to a legit starting quarterback in this league.   Lets hope he can do it. 

I also think I might give Ruckert or Yeboah a few snaps.  I have not been overly impressed with Conklin lately.    I know they are battling for a playoff spot and so naturally you think veteran, but again, lets be bold.  This team is a year ahead of schedule; I realize how important it would be for this young team to make the playoffs.  I just believe that we need to use all of our potential weapons.  Especially if the starters are not performing up to the levels you had expected of them.  

Everyone talks about how we upgraded at TE and that might be true, but compared to other teams in the league, our tight end room has been underwhelming to say the least.   Again, I am look at Lafleur and saying, can't develop more plays for the TE, especially down the field.   If it a personnel issue than maybe change the personnel.

Look guys I am very excited for this teams present but more so future.  I know Saleh had his share mistakes today, (not calling a time out before that momentum changing 4th down play.) but by and large, he as been an excellent Head Coach this year. 
I just hope Lafeur can adapt his approach little.  With this teams talent, I really, truly believe we should score 3 to 4 touch downs a game, and that was with Zach and now Mike White.  Zach was so bad that actually made Lafleurs offense look better than it is.   Now with no Zach to blame, Lafleur is under the spotlight and so far, and it is a short sample size, he has been less than impressive.   

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Feels like Lefluer always tries to outsmart the opponent when in reality he’s just being overly cute and rarely ever works in his favor.
Stop with the smoke and mirrors and just line up and play football. 

[FidelioJet]

It's not LeFluer.

We need players that can execute.  We don't have enough of them.

AVT, Becton and Hall all out...

G. Wilson seems to be special.   Corey Davis, while good, can't stay healthy..Bam Knight seems to be a great find..

Otherwise it's an offense of very average players.

Get me AVT, Becton, Hall back and a legit #2 that can stay healthy and I think MLF will be just fine.

This is, of course, excluding the QB discussion - which is a whole other conversation.

[Barton]

LaFleur is very predictable. These run plays can be called out by a 4th grader. RBs are getting destroyed behind the line consistently because the defense knows whats coming.

Did he even call a playaction today? Why not try that and throw a deep ball? keep the defense honest, my God. 

[JetBlue]

4 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

It's not LeFluer.

We need players that can execute.  We don't have enough of them.

AVT, Becton and Hall all out...

G. Wilson seems to be special.   Corey Davis, while good, can't stay healthy..Bam Knight seems to be a great find..

Otherwise it's an offense of very average players.

Get me AVT, Becton, Hall back and a legit #2 that can stay healthy and I think MLF will be just fine.

This is, of course, excluding the QB discussion - which is a whole other conversation.

Sorry but that is not going to fly.  You can't execute what you don't try.  Don't they practice all week like everyone else?  I watch other teams with no name players making plays for their team, I don't what to hear about personnel when I see Moore, Wilson, Mims, Berrios at receiver, Bam Knight at running back has been a great step in for Breece although Breeces impact cannot be overstated.    The offensive line has been a little inconsistent but for the most part have played very well all things considered.  The area of greatest disappointment for me is the TE room.  I was really expecting more from this group.   Having said that, there is still no excuse for the timid playcalling.  Have confidence in your players and give them a chance to make a play.   Why not try and draw an offensive pass interference penalty using Mims?  He once drew 3 in one game.  Does Lafleur know this or even care?  This is the kind of stuff I am talking about.   Being creative in his approach and for God Sake, stop going to Berrios in the end zone.  

[K_O_Brien]

13 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

It's not LeFluer.

We need players that can execute.  We don't have enough of them.

AVT, Becton and Hall all out...

G. Wilson seems to be special.   Corey Davis, while good, can't stay healthy..Bam Knight seems to be a great find..

Otherwise it's an offense of very average players.

Get me AVT, Becton, Hall back and a legit #2 that can stay healthy and I think MLF will be just fine.

This is, of course, excluding the QB discussion - which is a whole other conversation.

Other OCs around the League are able to put up points on the board, with less talent than what the Jets currently have. 

LeFleur's offense can move the ball up and down the field ok, but punching it in the endzone seems beyond him. 

We shouldn't have to wait until we get our multiple first round o-linemen and Hall back in the team, and find an improvement on Elijah Moore, before our offense scores more 20 points a game. 

[JetBlue]

10 minutes ago, Barton said:

LaFleur is very predictable. These run plays can be called out by a 4th grader. RBs are getting destroyed behind the line consistently because the defense knows whats coming.

Did he even call a playaction today? Why not try that and throw a deep ball? keep the defense honest, my God. 

If we can see this why can't he??  Maybe we get lucky and get a PI penalty, you know like they drew against us, not once but twice????   Saleh needs to bitch slap him and tell him to get with the program.  If we don't make the playoffs it won't be the fault of the defense. 

[shawn306]

1 minute ago, JetBlue said:

Sorry but that is not going to fly.  You can't execute what you don't try.  Don't they practice all week like everyone else?  I watch other teams with no name players making plays for their team, I don't what to hear about personnel when I see Moore, Wilson, Mims, Berrios at receiver, Bam Knight at running back has been a great step in for Breece although Breeces impact cannot be overstated.    The offensive line has been a little inconsistent but for the most part have played very well all things considered.  The area of greatest disappointment for me is the TE room.  I was really expecting more from this group.   Having said that, there is still no excuse for the timid playcalling.  Have confidence in your players and give them a chance to make a play.   Why not try and draw an offensive pass interference penalty using Mims?  He once drew 3 in one game.  Does Lafleur know this or even care?  This is the kind of stuff I am talking about.   Being creative in his approach and for God Sake, stop going to Berrios in the end zone.  

What did the Bills do that was like WOW ?

The weather being what it was, this was going to be a play it close the vest game and the team that made the fewest mistakes was going to win. 

[FidelioJet]

3 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

Other OCs around the League are able to put up points on the board, with less talent than what the Jets currently have. 

LeFleur's offense can move the ball up and down the field ok, but punching it in the endzone seems beyond him. 

We shouldn't have to wait until we get our multiple first round o-linemen and Hall back in the team, and find an improvement on Elijah Moore, before our offense scores more 20 points a game. 

You don't think it has anything to do with QB play?

[RevisIsland610]

Berrios does get too much playing time. He should have had the pass last week in the end zone and he should have caught that pass late in 4th quarter today that would have given them a 1st and goal on 5. The ball bounced right off his chest. He's just not the guy you can depend on in those crucial situations. 

[JetBlue]

6 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

You don't think it has anything to do with QB play?

What you mean throwing the ball down the field to see if your guy can come down with it?  If Mike White is not even capable of doing that than we definitely have a problem at quarterback.   Any NFL quarterback should be able to heave the ball down the field and position so it be difficult for a defender to get it.   I don't think Josh Allen did anthing spectacular when he got those 2 PI calls against us.   This was not just about this week, it was last week and other games he has called.  If you can't see that then you seem to have a blind spot in this area.  

[JetBlue]

11 minutes ago, shawn306 said:

What did the Bills do that was like WOW ?

The weather being what it was, this was going to be a play it close the vest game and the team that made the fewest mistakes was going to win. 

No the team that scores the most points are going to win.  

[K_O_Brien]

Just now, FidelioJet said:

You don't think it has anything to do with QB play?

Plenty, but not all. 

The Patriots, Saints, Browns, Falcons, Giants, etc. do not have a QB, but they average more per game, with less talent. The Lions are an offensive juggernaut with Jared Goff. 

Everyone was using Wilson as the scape-goat, but we haven't scored a passing TD in the last two games. It's hard not to score a passing TD against Minneosta. In two of Flacco's three games we scored 9 and 12 points. But man, all those 300 yard passing games.

[BroadwayJoe12]

He’s not predictable. Berrios isn’t the first option on these plays, the good teams take away the top targets in the red zone and White White went through his progressions quickly and ends up with two doinks off Berrios’ chest and face-mask. 

[shawn306]

7 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

No the team that scores the most points are going to win.  

And how many points came off Jets mistakes

[FidelioJet]

9 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

What you mean throwing the ball down the field to see if your guy can come down with it?  If Mike White is not even capable of doing that than we definitely have a problem at quarterback.   Any NFL quarterback should be able to heave the ball down the field and position so it be difficult for a defender to get it.   I don't think Josh Allen did anthing spectacular when he got those 2 PI calls against us.   This was not just about this week, it was last week and other games he has called.  If you can't see that then you seem to have a blind spot in this area.  

I don't know.  I didn't think it was the OC's fault when Zach Wilson wasn't good.  I didn't think it was the OC's fault when Sam Darnold wasn't good and so on..

I imagine there's something to it - where I tend to blame the players more than coaches - so I suspect you're right.  MLF can be better..

But I've just always leaned toward it's the players not the coaches side of most arguments.

But I do get what you're saying.

[New York Mick]

He hardly plays and who else would you like them to put on the field?

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Lefluer has no sense how to use the talent on this team properly. 

[Ghost420]

Some around here called Berrios an offensive weapon. 

[K_O_Brien]

I'll have to watch it back tomorrow, but what was that last series about? Two minute drill, with one timeout = four incompletions. That's the best we could do?

Same sh*t as last week. Four incompletions to end the game. 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

3 minutes ago, Ghost420 said:

Some around here called Berrios an offensive weapon. 

He could be if he wasn’t used like he’s Corey Davis. 

[Larz]

Cheaters won a Super Bowl with Edelman running option routes from the slot 

there is a role for the quick tough guy but as usual LaFluer totally misuses him. 

[STLuLu]

1 hour ago, Barton said:

LaFleur is very predictable. These run plays can be called out by a 4th grader. RBs are getting destroyed behind the line consistently because the defense knows whats coming.

Did he even call a playaction today? Why not try that and throw a deep ball? keep the defense honest, my God. 

LaFleur's play calling pattern: 1st down RUN

                                                2nd down PASS

                                                3rd down PASS

                                                4th down PUNT

[batman10023]

48 minutes ago, RevisIsland610 said:

Berrios does get too much playing time. He should have had the pass last week in the end zone and he should have caught that pass late in 4th quarter today that would have given them a 1st and goal on 5. The ball bounced right off his chest. He's just not the guy you can depend on in those crucial situations. 

He did a poor job on punt returns today

[JetBlue]

26 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I don't know.  I didn't think it was the OC's fault when Zach Wilson wasn't good.  I didn't think it was the OC's fault when Sam Darnold wasn't good and so on..

I imagine there's something to it - where I tend to blame the players more than coaches - so I suspect you're right.  MLF can be better..

But I've just always leaned toward it's the players not the coaches side of most arguments.

But I do get what you're saying.

I get it and you have a point.  I am not arguing the quarterback play should be better because that is self evident.  It is also self-evident at least to me, that Lafleur could do a better job.   Maybe Mike White is that limited; It is a small sample size.  

[STLuLu]

24 minutes ago, Ghost420 said:

Some around here called Berrios an offensive weapon. 

Who? Adam Gase?

[STLuLu]

2 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

He did a poor job on punt returns today

Then what the hell is he good for?

[Vudu]

MLF is a garbage play caller

[STLuLu]

1 minute ago, DLJ said:

MLF is a garbage play caller

I think his play designs are pretty decent. It's his decisions on when to call those plays is what I have an issue with. Defenses always play the Jets close on 1st down. How about call a home run play on 1st down sometimes? Even if it doesn't connect at least it will make their asses back up on 1st downs, which will open up the running lanes

[Joe W. Namath]

Most jet players are improving under this regime.  Berrios and MC are 2 players who we very good last year who are downright awful this year.

[Maynard13]

1 hour ago, Barton said:

LaFleur is very predictable. These run plays can be called out by a 4th grader. RBs are getting destroyed behind the line consistently because the defense knows whats coming.

Did he even call a playaction today? Why not try that and throw a deep ball? keep the defense honest, my God. 

Bart Scott eluded that RPO with Mike White is a huge mistake since White is NOT a running QB.  You aint foolin no one with that.  The OL is not  playing well right now either. They gonna get Mike White injured.  Losing AVT and Becton have really hurt this team. Fant has been abysmal all year and will be gone next year. Herbig has played ok in a back up role but he is a back up. Next year, the OL will be azz kicking. Brown, Tomlinson McGovern, AVT Becton. And we will have some good back ups in Herbig and Mitchell and others I'm sure.  Becton is really the key. Nevertheless, JD will have to draft a Tackle in next years draft for insurance and to prep for Brown who will be gone after next year.  

[bostonmajet]

I see the same crap Scotty used to do and some things worse - routes are either all deep, or not deep enough. He plays scared and not to loose. We play for FGs. He tries too much trickery and in other cases makes his own offense 1 dimensional by going empty backfield on short yardage. He seems to treat all players as plug n play. He calls the same offense for ZW and MW. He runs sweeps with Berrios, but won't do it with GW or EM? He never game plans for the other D - it is like he is so smart and the team is so good, he doesn't have to try to attack the D weak points. He throws against teams with weak run D, and runs against teams that are weak against the run. He doesn't seem to have a feel for the flow or the game and doesn't map out plays to put QB in best situation to succeed. I sure hope either he gets his head out of his ass and grows, or Saleh realizes he is indeed one of the weak links.

[Rhg1084]

GW, Elijah, CD, and Mims should all be getting reps over Berrios. I would decrease his snap count dramatically. He had a rough day as a returner too 

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, JetBlue said:

Sorry but that is not going to fly.  You can't execute what you don't try.  Don't they practice all week like everyone else?  I watch other teams with no name players making plays for their team, I don't what to hear about personnel when I see Moore, Wilson, Mims, Berrios at receiver, Bam Knight at running back has been a great step in for Breece although Breeces impact cannot be overstated.    The offensive line has been a little inconsistent but for the most part have played very well all things considered.  The area of greatest disappointment for me is the TE room.  I was really expecting more from this group.   Having said that, there is still no excuse for the timid playcalling.  Have confidence in your players and give them a chance to make a play.   Why not try and draw an offensive pass interference penalty using Mims?  He once drew 3 in one game.  Does Lafleur know this or even care?  This is the kind of stuff I am talking about.   Being creative in his approach and for God Sake, stop going to Berrios in the end zone.  

I agree with you, there's plenty of talent. Every team has injuries. 

MFL is not great at his job rn/yet. @Chrebetfan80 has a lot to say schematically about his shortcomings. 

[heymangold]

Too long of a post.  
 

LaFleur isn’t the reason they lost today.   

 

mike white isn’t the reason they lost today.