It's time to start Zach Wilson again!

[LockeJET]

32 minutes ago, carlito1171 said:

Who exactly besides us would pay MW a premium salary?

I wouldn’t say premium, but starter money at QB is pretty significant. And there are always teams looking for QBs. My only point is if he’s on the roster next year that means we paid him. 

[Jet_Engine1]

54 minutes ago, Alka said:

This is not about the future of the Jets, it's about the future of this season.  After the Jets lost to the Patriots the second time, I said that starting Zach Wilson the next game against the Bears was a "no-brainer".  I also said that I wasn't concerned about starting Mike White against the Bears, but I was concerned with him starting after the Bears.

You might be thinking right now that I am just a stupid Jets fan, and you might be right.  I could care less what anyone thinks.  You probably are pointing to the stats, how Mike is getting the entire offense involved, and how everyone loves him on the team.  I don't care about any of that.  I care about wins and losses, and on my scorecard, Zach is 5-2 this season, Mike White is 1-2, and Flacco is 1-2.

Zach, while I will not tell you that he is the future of this team after this year, I believe that he has shown the ability to evade sacks, can move around the pocket, and run when we need him to run.  Mike White is continuing to prove to me that he is a very good back-up QB, but not the guy who will get us to the Super Bowl.  Zach is 5-0 against every opponent he has gone against this season not named the Patriots, and If I were the head coach, I would have started Zach against the Bears (we still would have won the game), and see how he responded after the poor performance against the Patriots.  Let's not forget that he came from behind and got us a win against Buffalo at home, and was gritty in his performance, though not spectacular.

It is disturbing to me how easily Mike White can get Moore and Mims involved in the game, but not Zach.  While this is troubling, I only care about getting the wins right now.  Next year is next year, and I would make it a priority to bring in a established QB to compete with Zach and Mike White, and make it an open competition.

 

[Alka]

7 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

This is football - the ultimate team sport - not golf or tennis.  When are football fans ever going to realize that teams win and lose games, not QBs.  The Jets offense looks and operates so much better with White than Wilson - and it's not even close.  The Jets lost yesterday mainly because of three plays - the Mosley brain fart, the Flacco fumble, and the Carter fumble. Those three plays resulted in a 13 point swing- at least.  Throw in the Williams injury as a 4th reason and Berrios costing the Jets about 100 yards of field position in the first half because he couldn't catch a punt (and another TD pass).  The Jets lost to NE twice mainly because of horrible QB play.  

Counting wins and losses is a simplistic view of football and a red herring in evaluating QBs.  White should be the QB until his performance dictates he shouldn't, not because of team failures that had nothing to do with him.  

Yes, the Jets look much better operating with Mike White as QB.  Yes, this is the ultimate team sport, and yes, the Jets lost at least for sure the 2nd Patriots encounter due to poor QB play.  And yes, counting wins and losses are a simplistic view of football, and can be a red herring in evaluating QB's.  

I agree with all of that.  Still, the QB position is still the most important position on the field, and that is proven over and over again by what they get paid, and where they get drafted, and what teams will trade for them.  And the Jets operated very well with Zach as QB when he helped beat the Bills at home in a very gritty performance.  And that was just 1 game removed from his bad performance agasint the Patriots.  

Right now, it is my argument that Zach needs to get back on the field, and see if he can play the way he did against the Bills, and help the Jets get to the playoffs this year.  I believe that now is the right time to go back to him.  Mike is hurt, and if he starts, the defense will be aiming to take shots at his ribs.  I don't want a gutty performance from Mike, I want a win, now!  Zach is the guy.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

ZW also "went 1-2" during the NE, BUF, NE stretch of games.

If you think ZW gives the team a better chance of beating the Lions, you are wrong.

But nothing anybody says will convince you otherwise, so it's a pointless debate. 

As far as ZW, we are talking about a league-worst QB by any metric, a QB who sucks AND is a bad teammate.

"MW has lost" by 1 score to a 9-2 and a 9-3 football team.  The Jets were clear underdogs in both games.  Buffalo was favored by 10 yesterday.

[RevisIsland610]

Zach Wilson would have folded like a lawn chair in both of the last 2 games and the Jets would have been 0-2 in those games. Who are you kidding? At least we had a chance to win both games with Mike White. We can't committ stupid penalties like Mosley did and turn the ball over twice and expect to win. 

[Dunnie]

Zach had lost the locker room and the respect of his receivers. Now the team has watched MW’s iron man display yesterday seeing a guy who hangs tough and gets hurt, goes into the locker room, then comes out and continues to play in abysmal weather conditions, that gets you a lot of respect from your teammates. Guys will play even harder for a guy like that.
But if they start Zach again next week I don’t know if the teams plays as hard for him. I would guess the receivers go right back to staring back at Zach with a WTF expression on their faces after each errant throw that goes 5 ft over their head or drops 5 ft in the dirt in front of them.

Fair ... But let's be clear about one thing ... The weather yesterday was not nearly as bad as it was in NE .. not by a mile.

I was there yesterday .. rain, some flurries .. no wind.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[jeremy2020]

28 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

Why do some of you think every random thought that pops in your head deserves it own thread?

It’s not like there aren’t any plenty of others where you could have blown your load, but no… you needed to start another one!

they need the attention

[Jet2020]

1 hour ago, Alka said:

This is not about the future of the Jets, it's about the future of this season.  After the Jets lost to the Patriots the second time, I said that starting Zach Wilson the next game against the Bears was a "no-brainer".  I also said that I wasn't concerned about starting Mike White against the Bears, but I was concerned with him starting after the Bears.

You might be thinking right now that I am just a stupid Jets fan, and you might be right.  I could care less what anyone thinks.  You probably are pointing to the stats, how Mike is getting the entire offense involved, and how everyone loves him on the team.  I don't care about any of that.  I care about wins and losses, and on my scorecard, Zach is 5-2 this season, Mike White is 1-2, and Flacco is 1-2.

Zach, while I will not tell you that he is the future of this team after this year, I believe that he has shown the ability to evade sacks, can move around the pocket, and run when we need him to run.  Mike White is continuing to prove to me that he is a very good back-up QB, but not the guy who will get us to the Super Bowl.  Zach is 5-0 against every opponent he has gone against this season not named the Patriots, and If I were the head coach, I would have started Zach against the Bears (we still would have won the game), and see how he responded after the poor performance against the Patriots.  Let's not forget that he came from behind and got us a win against Buffalo at home, and was gritty in his performance, though not spectacular.

It is disturbing to me how easily Mike White can get Moore and Mims involved in the game, but not Zach.  While this is troubling, I only care about getting the wins right now.  Next year is next year, and I would make it a priority to bring in a established QB to compete with Zach and Mike White, and make it an open competition.

 

Dude, Zach isn’t 5-2. The D is 5-0. Zach is 0-2. Get it?

[Alka]

16 minutes ago, DoubleDown said:

You do realize that Mike White's losses are against two teams that were 18-5 combined when they faced the Jets, right?  And Mike White had the team in position to win or tie both games with a drive in the final minute of each game.

Is a 1-2 record good?  No, but context does matter and both of the losses were against teams that are the current #1 and #2 seeds in their conference.  He was very much a driving force in making those two games competitive, and if you are being objective, each loss should be attributed to other factors besides the quarterback position.

You do realize that Zach was the QB when the Jets beat the now 10-3 Buffalo Bills.  You do realize that the Jets were losing by 10 points in that game, right?  And you do realize that the Jets were underdogs in every single one of the 5 games that Zach started and won for the Jets this year, right?  

I'm being objective, but I feel that not many others are right now.  Fans just want to move on with Mike White.  I am not feeling that way.  I realize that the jets would hot have won those 5 games if the rest of the team were not much improved.  I get that.  But Zach was a part of those wins, and I like the sound of 5-2, as opposed to 1-2. Perhaps it's time to give Zach another shot.  Mike is hurting, and Zach is healthy.  We need a win against Detroit.  Zach should be the guy to get us that win.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

5 minutes ago, Alka said:

Right now, it is my argument that Zach needs to get back on the field, and see if he can play the way he did against the Bills, and help the Jets get to the playoffs this year.  I believe that now is the right time to go back to him.  Mike is hurt, and if he starts, the defense will be aiming to take shots at his ribs.  I don't want a gutty performance from Mike, I want a win, now!  Zach is the guy.

Zach Wilson will be back on the field in '23 or '24 in another uniform.

He's still "being reset" in the Jets "flight school".

 

 

[section314]

You do that, and you better hope that the D and specials can score 20 pts because the other 10 guys on offense won’t play for that punk. 

[Fantasy Island]

1 hour ago, Alka said:

This is not about the future of the Jets, it's about the future of this season.  After the Jets lost to the Patriots the second time, I said that starting Zach Wilson the next game against the Bears was a "no-brainer".  I also said that I wasn't concerned about starting Mike White against the Bears, but I was concerned with him starting after the Bears.

You might be thinking right now that I am just a stupid Jets fan, and you might be right.  I could care less what anyone thinks.  You probably are pointing to the stats, how Mike is getting the entire offense involved, and how everyone loves him on the team.  I don't care about any of that.  I care about wins and losses, and on my scorecard, Zach is 5-2 this season, Mike White is 1-2, and Flacco is 1-2.

Zach, while I will not tell you that he is the future of this team after this year, I believe that he has shown the ability to evade sacks, can move around the pocket, and run when we need him to run.  Mike White is continuing to prove to me that he is a very good back-up QB, but not the guy who will get us to the Super Bowl.  Zach is 5-0 against every opponent he has gone against this season not named the Patriots, and If I were the head coach, I would have started Zach against the Bears (we still would have won the game), and see how he responded after the poor performance against the Patriots.  Let's not forget that he came from behind and got us a win against Buffalo at home, and was gritty in his performance, though not spectacular.

It is disturbing to me how easily Mike White can get Moore and Mims involved in the game, but not Zach.  While this is troubling, I only care about getting the wins right now.  Next year is next year, and I would make it a priority to bring in a established QB to compete with Zach and Mike White, and make it an open competition.

 

[FTL Jet Fan]

57 minutes ago, Alka said:

So, the worst QB by far on this team is Zach, and he is 5-2 this year, while the other 2 QB's are a combined 2-4?  This game is about results, and the results don't match your argument.

Don’t see how he can comeback, I think you would see a huge drop off in the rest of the team. I know this  is not the popular opinion but I would rather see STREV play the Justin Fields role than have Zack freeze up in the backfield. 

[GangGreened]

Zach should be the backup. He should not be below Flacco on the chart but he should not be starting.

common ground, guys

[Alka]

3 minutes ago, Jet2020 said:

Dude, Zach isn’t 5-2. The D is 5-0. Zach is 0-2. Get it?

No, I don't get it.  lol.  I get that the Jets would not be 5-2 without the defense.  I get that.  I also get that the  Jets would not be 5-2 without Zach; they would be worse.  They would not have beaten the Bills the first time without Zach.

[AFJF]

16 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Don't think he can practice if he's on IR. Would lose those scout team reps. Unless i'm wrong. 

He's probably 10,000 reps away from maybe turning a corner.  But the team has to try to convince people that they still believe in him so the IR thing would hurt that position.

[Mike135]

Just don't ever let Flacco dress for gameday again.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Alka said:

I realize that I am in the minority.  I understand how you feel. I want results, before the season is gone.  Zach gave us more of the results that Jets fans really care about, and that's wins.

Wins he had little to do with.

It's as if context means nothing to some posters.

[Integrity28]

tl;dr

btw, stfu

kthxbai

[GangGreened]

3 minutes ago, Alka said:

No, I don't get it.  lol.  I get that the Jets would not be 5-2 without the defense.  I get that.  I also get that the  Jets would not be 5-2 without Zach; they would be worse.  They would not have beaten the Bills the first time without Zach.

The problem with these arguments is we don’t know that.

the more likely reason we bear Buffalo last time was we won the turnover battle. We turned the ball over multiple times yesterday and we lost.

Nothing to do with Zach Wilson 

[Zachtomims47]

3 minutes ago, AFJF said:

He's probably 10,000 reps away from maybe turning a corner.  But the team has to try to convince people that they still believe in him so the IR thing would hurt that position.

Wouldn't waste a month of getting reps against the 1st defense. But aright.

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, slats said:

This would be a good week to re-activate Zach ahead of Flacco, but White should and will start as long as he’s healthy to go for at least the next two weeks. 

A pause for the cause! 

[Alka]

1 minute ago, GangGreened said:

Zach should be the backup. He should not be below Flacco on the chart but he should not be starting.

common ground, guys

Okay, let's talk about common ground.  If Zach is the backup against Detroit, and Mike starts, all good.  What happens when Mike continues to get drilled in the ribs against the Lions, and that continues to affect his play?  Will you quickly insert Zach?  How about if Mike is only about 50% healthy coming up this week?  Should he start over our #2 QB, Zach?  

If we are talking about common ground, then Zach must be an option, depending on how healthy Mike is this week, and if Mike starts, should be evaluated on if Mike's presence is either hurting or helping the jets win the game.

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Wins he had little to do with.

It's as if context means nothing to some posters.

Most people don’t watch the games. I’m 10000% convinced they go by what they skim on Twitter and what not… then look at the most elementary stats and form rudimentary takes like this. Then, given they aren’t smart enough to think critically, they also aren’t smart enough to know not to share these takes. So, here we are.

[Integrity28]

2 minutes ago, GangGreened said:

The problem with these arguments is we don’t know that.

the more likely reason we bear Buffalo last time was we won the turnover battle. We turned the ball over multiple times yesterday and we lost.

Nothing to do with Zach Wilson 

All losing arguments hinge upon unprovable or unproven assumptions. We see it here all day, every day. 

Trying to stick to facts is like trying to breathe underwater.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

12 minutes ago, Alka said:

You do realize that Zach was the QB when the Jets beat the now 10-3 Buffalo Bills.  You do realize that the Jets were losing by 10 points in that game, right?  And you do realize that the Jets were underdogs in every single one of the 5 games that Zach started and won for the Jets this year, right?  

I'm being objective, but I feel that not many others are right now.  Fans just want to move on with Mike White.  I am not feeling that way.  I realize that the jets would hot have won those 5 games if the rest of the team were not much improved.  I get that.  But Zach was a part of those wins, and I like the sound of 5-2, as opposed to 1-2. Perhaps it's time to give Zach another shot.  Mike is hurting, and Zach is healthy.  We need a win against Detroit.  Zach should be the guy to get us that win.

 

In the 1st Bills game:

Does Zach Wilson also deserve credit for Josh Allen going temporarily blind and throwing those 2 ugly INTs?  Does he deserve credit for the fact Milano, Poyer, and Tredavious White all didn't play or for the half-dozen Bills players that went down on the MetLife turf during the game?

I give him credit for playing maybe his best game of the year vs Buffalo and for not turning the ball over.  But he's not better than MW.

The MW haters have been crowing for a year about his disastrous game vs Buffalo last year.  Well MW produced 268 yards passing on 61% comp. and didn't turn the ball over once despite being pressured on 40% of his dropbacks.

The haters can't say he played poorly anymore, so they pivot to the "wins are a QB stat" argument.

I mean, by that logic, Jimmy G should be one of the highest paid QBs in NFL history.

The defense suffocated A-Rod in Green Bay.  ZW handed the ball off to Breece Hall and otherwise looked like hot garbage.

I was at the Denver game.  Don't tell me Zach Wilson is a good QB or that he had anything to do with that win.  That's an absolute joke.

[Alka]

4 minutes ago, GangGreened said:

The problem with these arguments is we don’t know that.

the more likely reason we bear Buffalo last time was we won the turnover battle. We turned the ball over multiple times yesterday and we lost.

Nothing to do with Zach Wilson 

Of course, you're right!  We don't know what we don't know.  We only know what we do know, and we know that with Zach starting, the Jets are 5-2, and with anyone else starting, the Jets are a combined 2-4.  

Would the Jets be 7-6 or better with Mike White starting this season and playing every single game?  We don't know, but my feeling is that we would not be 7-6 or better, we would be worse.  Just my opinion.  I realize that right now, 95% of Jets fans feel differently from me.  I am in the minority, for sure.  

[Barry McCockinner]

6 minutes ago, Alka said:

Of course, you're right!  We don't know what we don't know.  We only know what we do know, and we know that with Zach starting, the Jets are 5-2, and with anyone else starting, the Jets are a combined 2-4.  

Would the Jets be 7-6 or better with Mike White starting this season and playing every single game?  We don't know, but my feeling is that we would not be 7-6 or better, we would be worse.  Just my opinion.  I realize that right now, 95% of Jets fans feel differently from me.  I am in the minority, for sure.  

Most just fans understand football. That's why you're in the minority.

[bonkertons]

For any people who think Zach should be starting right now(I won't even call them Zach supporters, since I view myself as a Zach supporter in that I WANT him to succeed and be our long-term franchise QB), isn't it pretty telling that the kid is still benched with a 5-2 record after we have lost 2 straight with our backup?

 

That should tell you how biblically bad this kid was in that New England game.  Both New England games, to be honest. 

 

Fact of the matter is, unless Zach somehow magically makes our OL better(maybe you could argue due to his mobility, but that's a stretch considering how many times he was blasted against NE), or magically makes MC hold onto the ball, or magically keeps Mosley onside during that 4th down play....I just don't see how him playing makes ANY difference.  That's even assuming he has one of his "omg he didn't turn the ball over and threw for 150 yards!!! This kid is the real deal!!" type of games.  More likely he throws 2 picks, can't move the ball(we saw him in "bad" weather against NE...I cringe at the thought of him playing in those conditions yesterday), and we get blown tf out instead of lose by one score.   

[Alka]

10 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

 

In the 1st Bills game:

Does Zach Wilson also deserve credit for Josh Allen going temporarily blind and throwing those 2 ugly INTs?  Does he deserve credit for the fact Milano, Poyer, and Tredavious White all didn't play or for the half-dozen Bills players that went down on the MetLife turf during the game?

I give him credit for playing maybe his best game of the year vs Buffalo and for not turning the ball over.  But he's not better than MW.

The MW haters have been crowing for a year about his disastrous game vs Buffalo last year.  Well MW produced 268 yards passing on 61% comp. and didn't turn the ball over once despite being pressured on 40% of his dropbacks.

The haters can't say he played poorly anymore, so they pivot to the "wins are a QB stat" argument.

I mean, by that logic, Jimmy G should be one of the highest paid QBs in NFL history.

The defense suffocated A-Rod in Green Bay.  ZW handed the ball off to Breece Hall and otherwise looked like hot garbage.

I was at the Denver game.  Don't tell me Zach Wilson is a good QB or that he had anything to do with that win.  That's an absolute joke.

How about this:  The next 4 games will tell us a lot. Can Mike White stay healthy?  Can he will games against the Lions, Seahawks and Miami?  Will he even play this week with his bruised ribs?  If he can't go, how will Zach play if he is elevated?  

Let's circle back, okay?  I could be wrong, you could be right.  We will see.  

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

In ZW's 7 starts, the defense surrendered a total of 98 pts.  (An additional 7 pts was surrendered by the ST on the NE PR TD)

That's an average of 14.0 PPG.

To provide some context, the #1 scoring defense in the NFL is the 49ers and they have allowed 15.2 PPG.

The defense (and the running game with Breece Hall and a healthy OL) were the engine behind those wins. 

Not a QB with a 55.6% completion rate, averaging 183 yards passing, and with 4 passing TDs in 7 games.

 

[John Blaze]

9 minutes ago, Alka said:

Of course, you're right!  We don't know what we don't know.  We only know what we do know, and we know that with Zach starting, the Jets are 5-2, and with anyone else starting, the Jets are a combined 2-4.  

Would the Jets be 7-6 or better with Mike White starting this season and playing every single game?  We don't know, but my feeling is that we would not be 7-6 or better, we would be worse.  Just my opinion.  I realize that right now, 95% of Jets fans feel differently from me.  I am in the minority, for sure.  

So you're saying that you believe that if the Jets had better qb play all season, their record would somehow be worse? 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

6 minutes ago, Alka said:

How about this:  The next 4 games will tell us a lot. Can Mike White stay healthy?  Can he will games against the Lions, Seahawks and Miami?  Will he even play this week with his bruised ribs?  If he can't go, how will Zach play if he is elevated?  

Let's circle back, okay?  I could be wrong, you could be right.  We will see.  

That's fair.

We'll see.  The Detroit game is kind of scary.  They have won what 5 of 6, and it should really be 6 in a row because they had the Bills beat and gave it up late.

[WeCantDraftGoodQBs]

33 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Fair ... But let's be clear about one thing ... The weather yesterday was not nearly as bad as it was in NE .. not by a mile.

I was there yesterday .. rain, some flurries .. no wind.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

I watched the game on TV and the weather looked like it was bad, but you were there so you would know better than me. I agree the Patriots game had worse weather with very bad wind . . . but Mac Jones still threw for 246 yds compared to Zach’s 77 yds (and less completions than we had punts).

[NJ]

1 hour ago, Alka said:

I don't disagree with you.  But, as a long suffering Jets fan, I want excrement this season, and I feel that Zach would have given us that.  

 

fixed