This is not on Zach.

[TNJet]

It's been as much on LeFleur as anyone the past 3 weeks. He sucks. I miss Chan Gailey.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

So, let me just cut you off here: These are observations from games. Keep going and you'll find posts where I praised the benching and said the Jets should stick with White for the season. If decontextualizing the minutiae of posts to soapbox some sort of hyperbolic superiority you're constantly looking to establish with people you're a lot more eloquent when you try to lecture everyone about porn and crappy rock bands. 

You did support the benching.  I do see that.  But supporting the benching does not mean you didn't defend Wilson's sh*tty, sh*tty play.  And you should feel bad about that.  

[DireJet]

8 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Wilson stinks. Everyone knows this. Winning today wouldn't have changed that opinion at all. But if the guy puts the team in the lead with the end in sight, why is the loss on him? Wasn't the team winning in spite of him? So now all of a sudden the loss that resulted from blown coverage is now on him, but none of the wins are? Defense completely botched it.

Exactly why the ZW is 5-2 so start the “winner” was a juvenile joke. 

[FlightBoyz]

9 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Raiders have a nice lead on NE, 17-3

Everything else is breaking right, except the Jets couldn’t take care of business  ?

 

Raiders n Titans dubs would be huge. Thursday night becomes huge if so.

[T0mShane]

15 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

What excuses? I don't really understand why it's so wrong to point out that White never had the team in the lead at any point in either of those games and Wilson put the team in a position to win and tie. White's a better QB, but neither seem to impact wins that much so who cares.

The excuse that somehow Zach Wilson has this as-yet untapped well of potential that’s going to spring forth any day now but Mike White is somehow tapped out as a starter and needs to be judged differently. It’s easier to make the case that both are, and will remain, non-factors than it is to make the case that Zach Wilson deserves to play another down for the Jets.

[Jetsfan80]

15 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

What excuses? I don't really understand why it's so wrong to point out that White never had the team in the lead at any point in either of those games and Wilson put the team in a position to win and tie. White's a better QB, but neither seem to impact wins that much so who cares.

So we're just gonna ignore any and all context in this debate and still pretend you weren't in the defend Zach camp on this one?

[Augustiniak]

Just now, T0mShane said:

The excuse that somehow Zach Wilson has this as-yet untapped well of potential that’s going to spring forth any day now but Mike White is somehow tapped out as a starter and needs to be judged differently. It’s easier to make the case that both are, and will remain, non-factors than it is to make the case that Zach Wilson deserves to play another down for the Jets.

Truth they’d be best off getting bridgewater to run this offense, trading every bust they have for draft picks and trying again at qb.  But that won’t happen. 

 

[Jetsfan80]

50 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Mike White hangs 30 on the vikings horrible defense if he was as good as some of you have convinced yourself he is. 

Berrios catches a ball he had 2 hands on and cradled in his chest and we put up 29.  

We just put up 17 against a bottom-3 pass D with Zach.  

[T0mShane]

10 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Carr is probably one of my least favorite of the options that could be available, but I think they have to make a legitimate move by March/April.

I know many will probably e-kick me in the balls for saying it, but I would honestly prefer Rodgers/Brady in the short term with a mid-round rookie to develop behind them.

We haven’t made the playoffs in 12 years now. Something’s gotta give.

JD and Saleh have to notice that the team has pretty much everything they need to make a run besides a reliable option at the most important position of them all.

I think Brady is the unicorn option, but Rodgers is an extremely surly, expensive dude who would get chewed up in this market. 

[Jetsfan80]

35 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

The problem is that the d, special teams and coaching all choked as well.  Today’s loss has a TON of blame to go around.  

Go ask the jet defense if they blame wilson for this loss.  They are probably livid they gave up that touchdown.

So if we're scoring at home:

• Games Zach lost:  2 (Both Pats games)
• Games Zach lost but didn't contribute much towards a W or L:  1 (Lions game)
• Games Zach won, leading with his play:  0
• Games Zach was dragged to victory:  5

[TNJet]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think Brady is the unicorn option, but Rodgers is an extremely surly, expensive dude who would get chewed up in this market. 

Lets not bring in old guys that we've hated for 15 years and decide to pull for them here. Nothing I hate worse than that. Reminds me of 2008 Favre gag a maggot saga.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

So if we're scoring at home:

• Games Zach lost:  2 (Both Pats games)
• Games Zach had little to do with losing:  1 (Lions game)
• Games Zach won, leading with his play:  0
• Games Zach was dragged to victory:  5

My point is that the entire team choked today including the coaches.  My post is not a referendum on the season or wilson in general.  

 

[Jetsfan80]

25 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

The loss isn't on the backup QB who wasn't even allowed to dress the previous 3 weeks, especially if the team was up with under 2 minutes to go. 

Oh so sitting HURT Zach Wilson now.  That's a fun one.  

[JoJoTownsell1]

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Berrios catches a ball he had 2 hands on and cradled in his chest and we put up 29.  

We just put up 17 against a bottom-3 pass D with Zach.  

If the defense can make a stop late or we don't give up a special teams td, Zach is 6-2 as a starter. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

My point is that the entire team choked today including the coaches.  My post is not a referendum on the season or wilson in general.  

Indeed.  Just funny how some of the Zach defenders think saying Zach "wasn't the problem" somehow means he can be a solution.  

He can't.  He's incapable.  Today is about the best you're going to see from him on any given Sunday barring a historically unprecedented career turnaround.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

If the defense can make a stop late or we don't give up a special teams td, Zach is 6-2 as a starter. 

Which means absolutely f**king nothing, because he wasn't even a top 10 factor in the Jets winning any of those games.

If you're going to blame Mike White for being 1-2 then you don't get to call Zach Wilson a 6-2 QB.  

[Augustiniak]

Just now, JoJoTownsell1 said:

If the defense can make a stop late or we don't give up a special teams td, Zach is 6-2 as a starter. 

Overall the team is meh, reflected in their 7-7 record.  The past 4 games are a good indicator of where they are - can’t beat the real good teams, beat the bad teams and the games against comparable teams are a toss up.  

Today the jets did not cause a turnover and gave up a special teams td.  The d gave up a killer td when they could have saved the season with one stop vs lions at home. The coaches also sucked today.  If the only way to overcome all this is for any qb to play perfect ball that’s not a reasonable formula to win.  

[Ron Rico]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Which means absolutely f**king nothing, because he wasn't even a top 10 factor in the Jets winning any of those games.

If you're going to blame Mike White for being 1-2 then you can't call Zach Wilson a 6-2 QB.  

Don't argue with them, any more. Just play the game by their rules:

Zach is 0-1 as the starting QB of the NY Jets.

[DireJet]

I honestly do get the fascination with Zach. Some of the throws he makes are wild. And all with a flick of the wrist. It’s tantalizing & intoxicating to think about what he’d look like w/out all the putrid plays also thrown in the mix. He’s got absurd skills throwing a football. The problem is that it doesn’t have to be so hard in this offense. It should be easy. Stick in the pocket, deliver on-schedule & accurate passes. This is why Mike White excelled.

Against this bad Lions defense, I think we needed to see more of this & better. Guys were open and there were too many missed throws. This doesn’t discount some of the incredible throws that Zach DID execute. But those are gravy throws on a day like today. You gotta nail the simple stuff first to be a consistent NFL starter.

So, can he do that? Today is the day it should've happened — a mix of acing the easy and wowing us with the otherworldly. But it was just not consistent enough. I can see why the coaching staff won’t give up on him, however, we’ve got a guy on the roster who can do a better overall job right now. It’s a tough spot and I see both sides. 

[RutgersJetFan]

15 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The excuse that somehow Zach Wilson has this as-yet untapped well of potential that’s going to spring forth any day now but Mike White is somehow tapped out as a starter and needs to be judged differently. It’s easier to make the case that both are, and will remain, non-factors than it is to make the case that Zach Wilson deserves to play another down for the Jets.

There are like 4 people left that claim any of this. You're arguing against some sort of boogymen at this point.

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Which means absolutely f**king nothing, because he wasn't even a top 10 factor in the Jets winning any of those games.

If you're going to blame Mike White for being 1-2 then you don't get to call Zach Wilson a 6-2 QB.  

Lol coming from the guy making excuses for white when he loses.

[Ron Rico]

6 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

If the defense can make a stop late or we don't give up a special teams td, Zach is 6-2 as a starter. 

Gosh, forgive us for being so blind. Zach can F up once or twice a game, but the Defense has to be perfect.

Thanks for clearing that up. We've been so blind.

[Averagejetsfan1421]

At one point the camera showed Zach in the huddle and it looked like he forgot the play, started calling one thing then you see him say wait no and switched it, this game is to fast and to complicated for him 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, RutgersJetFan said:

There are like 4 people left that claim any of this. You're arguing against some sort of boogymen at this point.

I must expose those four people and crush their spirit.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Must be a season best for the Lions D

 

[RutgersJetFan]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

I must expose those four people and crush their spirit.

I don't even think they know how to read.

[Ron Rico]

3 minutes ago, DireJet said:

I honestly do get the fascination with Zach. Some of the throws he makes are wild. And all with a flick of the wrist. It’s tantalizing & intoxicating to think about what he’d look like w/out all the putrid plays also thrown in the mix. He’s got absurd skills throwing a football. The problem is that it doesn’t have to be so hard in this offense. It should be easy. Stick in the pocket, deliver on-schedule & accurate passes. This is why Mike White excelled.

Against this bad Lions defense, I think we needed to see more of this & better. Guys were open and there were too many missed throws. This doesn’t discount some of the incredible throws that Zach DID execute. But those are gravy throws on a day like today. You gotta nail the simple stuff first to be a consistent NFL starter.

So, can he do that? Today is the day it should've happened — a mix of acing the easy and wowing us with the otherworldly. But it was just not consistent enough. I can see why the coaching staff won’t give up on him, however, we’ve got a guy on the roster who can do a better overall job right now. It’s a tough spot and I see both sides. 

Someone already made the best analogy; it's like being the guy who really sucks at pool but get's luck on a trick shot every once in a while, and people think he's a pool shark.

THAT'S ZACH. 

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, DireJet said:

I honestly do get the fascination with Zach. Some of the throws he makes are wild. And all with a flick of the wrist. It’s tantalizing & intoxicating to think about what he’d look like w/out all the putrid plays also thrown in the mix. He’s got absurd skills throwing a football. The problem is that it doesn’t have to be so hard in this offense. It should be easy. Stick in the pocket, deliver on-schedule & accurate passes. This is why Mike White excelled.

You just answered your own question.  QB analysts around here are obsessed with things like "ceiling", "potential", "off platform throws" and "throws few others can make".

That's really not what makes a FQB and never has been.  You need a baseline level of athletic skill to play the position, yes.  But the greats and the busts aren't generally separated by physical ability.  They're separated by what's in their brains, specifically processing speed.  

JaMarcus Russell oozed with talent too.  And just like with Zach Wilson, there were plenty of defenders at the time making threads like these saying "Don't boo JaMarcus" and "This one's not on Russell".  Yet he was a tremendous bust all the same.

Not to mention, Zach defenders overrated his physical abilities anyways.  Very little of what he can do on the field is "special".  

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You just answered your own question.  QB analysts around here are obsessed with things like "ceiling", "potential", "off platform throws" and "throws few others can make".

That's really not what makes a FQB and never has been.  You need a baseline level of athletic skill to play the position.  The greats and the busts aren't separated by physical ability.  They're separated by what's in their brains, specifically processing speed.  

JaMarcus Russell oozed with talent too.  And just like with Zach Wilson, there were plenty of defenders at the time making threads like these saying "Don't boo JaMarcus" and "This one's not on Russell".  Yet he was a tremendous bust all the same.

Not to mention, Zach defenders overrated his physical abilities anyways.  Very little of what he can do on the field is "special".  

Zach’s ceiling is overrated. His highlight reel is a bunch of roll-right, launch a punt downfield and hope someone comes down with it. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

4 minutes ago, Coquito said:

Gosh, forgive us for being so blind. Zach can F up once or twice a game, but the Defense has to be perfect.

Thanks for clearing that up. We've been so blind.

You know that was in response to the excuses for white being 1-2? Your record is your record 

[ScarletKnight89]

Zach Wilson is bad.

But the football game is about more than one player. Zach has become an issue that many fans can not look past. The team is about more than Mike White and Zach Wilson. It's obvious Mike White is the better QB but so what? He's hurt. Zach had to play. Get over it. 

Zach didn't play well. He looked ok for most of the first half and then did nothing until the missed FG by the Lions midway through the 4th quarter. He made some impressive throws (more than usual) but missed a ton of throws to guys wide open. Mike White would have thrown for 400 yards today and we probably win easily.

But Zach's presence on the field has blinded people from looking at the whole game and not just him. Zach Wilson walked off the field with the lead at 17-13. Then the Lions went right down the field and scored a 51 yard TD on 4th down. Then the Head Coach didn't use his timeouts properly.

Yeah Zach's play is an issue. But the game isn't all on him. He did enough to win the game today. 

[JetPotato]

3 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Must be a season best for the Lions D

 

"3 and outs don't matter much if your defense can just do their job and pitch a shutout every week"

[slimjasi]

7 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Overall the team is meh, reflected in their 7-7 record.  The past 4 games are a good indicator of where they are - can’t beat the real good teams, beat the bad teams and the games against comparable teams are a toss up.  

Today the jets did not cause a turnover and gave up a special teams td.  The d gave up a killer td when they could have saved the season with one stop vs lions at home. The coaches also sucked today.  If the only way to overcome all this is for any qb to play perfect ball that’s not a reasonable formula to win.  

agree with all of this

the team isn't there yet

Lot's of promising things from this season and reason for hope/optimism going forward, but plenty to fix and clean up

I'd still LOVE to try and win 2 of these last 3 (although I don't see it happening) and get a winning record. These past three games have been extremely frustrating. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I must expose those four people and crush their spirit.

It's as if people forget how obnoxious the Zach defenders have been for months.  Most have hidden away in their caves by now, yes.  But my bloodlust desire for their schadenfreude remains.  And it falls on, like you say, those 4 people still hanging around.

[Ron Rico]

The only thing I'll finally concede to Zach's apologists is that MLF does in fact suck calling plays. If one goes, I'd like to see the other shown the door as well.