This is not on Zach.

[Lurker89]

Tar and feather

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, ylekram said:

true, but why not call the plays that the player excels at? at least a little more?

Agreed. It’s frustrating to watch LaFleur force Zach to run the Garoppolo playbook. He’s not built to do that, and it hurts everyone involved.

[doitny]

32 minutes ago, football guy said:

Questions of how he would play coming into today were fair. We’ve seen situations like this before where the QB got benched comes back and lost all of his confidence, plays like sh*t, etc. I did not see that today… I saw a player who learned their lesson, was confident and collected, and put his high ceiling talent on display.  He needs to get better down to down and needs to be more consistently accurate, but I am by no means discouraged with what I saw today. Anyone who takes the time to watch the all-22 this week should come away impressed or encouraged. No one was running wide open and the lions did a great job of eliminating the layups; aside from the Carter catch (nightmare by the way), there were no fluky completions

This Zach is the player we all wanted prior to the season when we didn’t expect to be a playoff team. I think people’s recency bias + heightened expectations for the team are the reasons for pessimism. 

i am discouraged.

1st lets take into account this was the 3rd worst pass defense in the league. if he didnt make some throws he doesnt deserve to be a NFL QB. and he did make a few throws and yes i can see the talent but how many 1st rd busts had the same and never made it.? and for the same thing i seen today. his accuracy sucks. i know you friends dont like stats but he completion % keeps going south. this aint the 70s where Namath and Bradshaw got into the HOF with 50% completions. when do your friends think that might improve or is that ok as long as he makes a 40 yds pass here and there?

i dont need to see the all 22s to see how bad he was. unlike other games with Zach he didnt do the chicken dance which was good so there isnt a question on if someone was open. i seen the open receiver and the bad throw right on TV. if anything the all 22 might show me someone else was more open and make Zach look worst.

no fluky completions? he underthrew twice on 2 bombs. i think both were to Smith. and the last play to Moore was a Miracle. 

and there were alot of TO worthy passes. we got lucky today. 

there are 31 QBs with 60% or higher. if Zach was one of them today we win. if Baker Mayfield has a good game tomorrow Zach will be the only starter under 60 % in the NFL. and its not even close at 54%

[Barton]

9 minutes ago, DireJet said:

I mean he missed GW on a 50yd bomb over the top by inches. Looked like a good ball to me and not an arm strength issue. You need an arm to fit the ball into tight windows on intermediate throws, too. One could say those are more important and harder to execute than deep bombs. 

Yup. Someone pull up the video of the overthrow to Garrett down the sideline. White didnt uncork himself and threw it w/o a wobble or a massive arch 40+ yards. Dude has plenty of arm to stretch the field. Jets just havent called that play with him. LaFleur is an issue.

Jets need another legit elite WR threat. Garrett is legit. Eveyone else is a #3 at best. 

[Bugg]

3 minutes ago, Barton said:

Yup. Someone pull up the video of the overthrow to Garrett down the sideline. White didnt uncork himself and threw it w/o a wobble or a massive arch 40+ yards. Dude has plenty of arm to stretch the field. Jets just havent called that play with him. LaFleur is an issue.

Jets need another legit elite WR threat. Garrett is legit. Eveyone else is a #3 at best. 

Weaponz nonsense. Mims and Moore are more than solid as alts. Z. Wilson is the problem. 

[Grandy]

I think people forget the Uzomah throw was to the opposite side of the field. Wilson might be the most inconsistent QB I've ever seen, but other than maybe the Jeff Smith throw all of his bombs were money. If he could be as efficient as White in the short-intermediate game we'd have a super QB. Sadly he sucks at that. 

[Lurker89]

4 hours ago, bitonti said:

Zach Wilson had several amazing off schedule throws like the last one to Moore but it's like an adventure everytime he drops back 

He had an ugly pick start of the 3q (which led to a Det FG in a game they lose by 3) and an almost ugly duck pick that Michael Carter bailed him out on. He had below average accuracy on several easy throws, and an intentional grounding 

The people who say this game is not on Zach are starting at that conclusion and working backward from there 

[Lurker89]

15 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Agreed. It’s frustrating to watch LaFleur force Zach to run the Garoppolo playbook. He’s not built to do that, and it hurts everyone involved.

Lafluer needs more blame too.

Every time Zach ****s up MLF starts playcalling scared and the whole offense goes into a hole...

Although Zach has played like a heftybag full if tiny ****s how is he supposed to have a short memory when after a mistake Lafleur goes into his turtleshell playbook.

[JetPotato]

1 hour ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

The defense had no sacks and no turnovers. The Lions were 8-15 on 3rd and 4th down. The defense had the game in its hands and gave up a winning TD with under 2 minutes left on a 50 yard play on 4th and 1.  That is never ever a good game by the defense.  

Those are fun stats.

They gave up 13 points, 3 of which were actually the result of a Wilson bone headed pick.

So 10 points. 

Like I said... think. Try at least.

[bostonmajet]

It is impossible to know what would have happened if White was in there, but Zach did some plays that MW could never do - rolling out, avoiding the sack, and throwing the ball 40+ yards downfield. Zach also has some bone headed plays. It is hard to say, but I doubt MW wins this game. Not necessarily because of him, but because of the OC, OL, lack of running game; just remember MW lost the last 2 games he played - he couldn't avoid the sacks and got knocked out of 2 weeks worth of games - MW could not win this game, because he wasn't medically cleared. But, enjoy

[Jet Nut]

41 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Today’s loss is on the entire team and coaching staff.  That doesn’t mean wilson played well.  

The lions made no mistakes today.  No turnovers and no special teams screw ups.  The jets had one turnover and one special teams screwup.  That’s why they lost.  

I think it was the 4th down play over the int.  The pick only led to 3, while the other two plays went for 7 each.  Plenty of blame to pass around though

[Charlie Brown]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Yeah, Just Fields last year they asked him to stay in the pocket - and "develop". 

It seems this year the new coach is playing to his strengths.  He's still throwing for 150 yards - but he's taking off and putting pressure on the defense - and they're scoring a lot more points.

If they designed a few plays for Zach - so he could do on purpose, what he did by improvising - I think will go a long way to helping him..  Why wait for a play to break down?

Key he was not Joe Montana in college so why do they expect him to be Joe in the Pros! Zach was more akin to Farve than Joe and the question is didn't the Jets Brass see this?

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

It’s really on 1JD not tanking for Trevor Lawrence 

 

[football guy]

22 minutes ago, Grandy said:

I think people forget the Uzomah throw was to the opposite side of the field. Wilson might be the most inconsistent QB I've ever seen, but other than maybe the Jeff Smith throw all of his bombs were money. If he could be as efficient as White in the short-intermediate game we'd have a super QB. Sadly he sucks at that. 

This is who the Jets are trying to build. They want him to be like Mike 80% of the time while mixing in some of the throws he made today 20% of the time. 

I get being upset about losing and I also get being impatient with Wilson considering what this game meant for our playoff chances. But if you’re looking at each play in a vacuum there were some truly sensational throws and a ton to build on. It’s not like he is unable to throw with elite ball placement… it’s there. It’s all about finding consistently. 

[T0mShane]

12 minutes ago, football guy said:

This is who the Jets are trying to build. They want him to be like Mike 80% of the time while mixing in some of the throws he made today 20% of the time. 

I get being upset about losing and I also get being impatient with Wilson considering what this game meant for our playoff chances. But if you’re looking at each play in a vacuum there were some truly sensational throws and a ton to build on. It’s not like he is unable to throw with elite ball placement… it’s there. It’s all about finding consistently. 

What’s their timeline for this plan, though? They probably have to win next year and Zach Wilson looks to be pretty far away from being even a median quarterback. Even if the coaches want to be patient with him, it seems his teammates are running out of patience. 

[doitny]

47 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

Those are fun stats.

They gave up 13 points, 3 of which were actually the result of a Wilson bone headed pick.

So 10 points. 

Like I said... think. Try at least.

thats why some people here make me laugh. they expect the defense to stand on its head every week and one mistake and its there fault. but the offense scores 17 and has a QB who completes half his passes and there not the sole reason we lost. 

the QB is bad for most of the game but one mistake by the defense and its like...hey its there fault too.

[Bugg]

31 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

What’s their timeline for this plan, though? They probably have to win next year and Zach Wilson looks to be pretty far away from being even a median quarterback. Even if the coaches want to be patient with him, it seems his teammates are running out of patience. 

With the way a 1st rounder's contract plays out, this off season, they're gonna have to make a decision.  You cannot go into next summer and just give him the job. Whether that's White, another vet, a draft pick, remains to be seen.  Wilson is on the roster next year, but beyond that, they owe him nothing. He's no lock to start, and would be dereliction to hand him the job off this. He's earned nothing. 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Bugg said:

With the way a 1st rounder's contract plays out, this off season, they're gonna have to make a decision. whteher he starts. You cannot go into net summer and give him the job. Whether that's White, another vet, a draft pick, remains to be seen.  Wilson is on the roster next year, but beyond that, they owe him nothing. He's no lock to start, and would be dereliction to hand him the job off this. He's earned nothing. 

IMO, they should cut bait and try to trade him. He’s all potential and immaturity right now, and the window is rapidly compressing on Saleh and Douglas to become a contender. It’s a binary choice: Hitch the wagon to Wilson, or try something else. Given that Wilson is 1. bad and 2. Apparently unpopular, the choice is clear. 

[HighPitch]

6 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Your turn on the apology thread merry-go-round.

Dumb dumb im not apologizing.

 

Everyone has their limits and mine was reached today with this awful mess called wilson

 

 

[JetsMetsRangers]

9 hours ago, JetPotato said:

Those are fun stats.

They gave up 13 points, 3 of which were actually the result of a Wilson bone headed pick.

So 10 points. 

Like I said... think. Try at least.

Yes such a terrible defense yesterday........Gave up basically 13 points to a team that puts up over 30 regularly and averages 25 PPG.......Held the Lions to a FG after the horrible pick that set them up at the Jets 15......Lions 0-3 in the RZ.......Lions 5-15 on third down.......Gave up a whopping 7 points in the second half to an offensive juggernaut and missing their sack leader and best DLineman, maybe just maybe if the offense did not start the 2nd half with a INT and punt...punt...punt on the first 4 drives in the second half against 1 of the worst defenses in football that last drive by Detroit would have been irrelevant........Then with 3 timeouts and close to 2 minutes left the offense could not get into decent FG range.......2 Sacks taken......Left the time outs for next season.....While you see other teams with no time outs and less than 40 seconds in the game get into FG range quite often our offense **** the bed with a world of time left on the clock and all their time outs........

[jgb]

8 hours ago, Bugg said:

Weaponz nonsense. Mims and Moore are more than solid as alts. Z. Wilson is the problem. 

Wouldn’t be fair to judge a QB without two elite WRs, apparently.

[jgb]

8 hours ago, Grandy said:

I think people forget the Uzomah throw was to the opposite side of the field. Wilson might be the most inconsistent QB I've ever seen, but other than maybe the Jeff Smith throw all of his bombs were money. If he could be as efficient as White in the short-intermediate game we'd have a super QB. Sadly he sucks at that. 

I called out that throw as a 50/50 prayer ball because that’s what it looked like live. But after re-watching from an angle behind the QB, it was a good throw. Could’ve led Uzomah more downfield with it but it was a good throw.

[rangerous]

no matter how you slice it, wilson didn't give up a punt return for a td nor did he give up the td with 2 minutes to play and the lead.  granted he didn't play as well as he should have (or at least what his draft position was) but still got them the lead with a zero run game.  what would mike white do?  hard to say.  wilson was under pressure all day and the lions loaded up the box.  maybe he would've been able to throw quick strikes to open up the defense.

[Peteo]

15 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

The lions have averaged 30 ppg over the last 5 games. The jets defense without their best player gave up 13 even when one drive started on the 15 yard line due to an atrocious interception.

Don't you dare blame this on the defense.

The winning play was the fault of the D.  How they played the rest of the game doesn't matter because when it mattered most they came up short.

[BroadwayJoe12]

12 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Agreed. It’s frustrating to watch LaFleur force Zach to run the Garoppolo playbook. He’s not built to do that, and it hurts everyone involved.

Not that this is the point you are trying to make, I just chose your post as I am too lazy to find the one you quoted, but having someone who's good results only result from bootlegs and broken / off-scripted plays is not sustainable and I am sure drives Lafleur insane. I am sure he tries to help Zach, but when you have zero running game because they stack the box and your QB cannot complete simple pitch-and-catch throws, you're absolutely neutered from a play-calling perspective.  We both know Zach is done, at least here. Apologies to football guy, but you do not play 22 games of historically bad football and recover (at least where it's likely enough to justify throwing away two additional seasons to see it through). To football guy's point, he made incremental improvement, but was the same maddening player as he has been. That incremental improvement, in my mind at least, is not enough to waste another season or two of a ready-to-win roster. 

[56mehl56]

4 hours ago, JetsMetsRangers said:

Yes such a terrible defense yesterday........Gave up basically 13 points to a team that puts up over 30 regularly and averages 25 PPG.......Held the Lions to a FG after the horrible pick that set them up at the Jets 15......Lions 0-3 in the RZ.......Lions 5-15 on third down.......Gave up a whopping 7 points in the second half to an offensive juggernaut and missing their sack leader and best DLineman, maybe just maybe if the offense did not start the 2nd half with a INT and punt...punt...punt on the first 4 drives in the second half against 1 of the worst defenses in football that last drive by Detroit would have been irrelevant........Then with 3 timeouts and close to 2 minutes left the offense could not get into decent FG range.......2 Sacks taken......Left the time outs for next season.....While you see other teams with no time outs and less than 40 seconds in the game get into FG range quite often our offense **** the bed with a world of time left on the clock and all their time outs........

You have a 4 point lead with 2 minutes left in the game , all the D needs to do is keep them from getting a TD. Elite D's respond in that scenario, they failed yesterday.  

[Dunnie]

You have a 4 point lead with 2 minutes left in the game , all the D needs to do is keep them from getting a TD. Elite D's respond in that scenario, they failed yesterday.  

This was a failure across the entire team .. including the D, Zach and Special Teams. Had any of them executed critical plays successfully... It's a W.

.. but they didn't


Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[JetsMetsRangers]

8 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

You have a 4 point lead with 2 minutes left in the game , all the D needs to do is keep them from getting a TD. Elite D's respond in that scenario, they failed yesterday.  

True but elite offensives and QB's complete much better than barely 50% of their passes and put up more than 17 points against one of the worse defenses in the league......Also that defense yesterday bailed Zach out after his horrible pick and held the Lions to a FG.......And with 2 minutes and 3 times outs i would expect our offense to get closer than a 58 FG attempt with 1 second left......Should have had at least 2 more plays to get closer but hey we saved a couple of time outs for next week,,,,,,,,;)

 

[C Mart]

He’s right

[SackExchangeNYJ]

16 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

It's the degree to which these arguments are being made.

You hear Mike White was great, he should take no responsibility for the loss

Then you year Zach was terrible and he's entirely responsible for the loss.

The reality is QB's are responsible for wins and losses --- but typically not solely.  

Mikes' been up and down, Zach was up and down today.  Neither are fully responsible for the losses.  Both should take some responsibility for them.  it's the QB's job to help their team win - Zach didn't get it done today.

White has statistically been more up than down, and Wilson has been statistically more down than up. 

QBs are indeed obviously partially responsible for a team's performance, but using wins and losses as a metric to judge QBs is a horrible methodology.

[SackExchangeNYJ]

15 hours ago, JetsYanks13 said:

QB’s win and losses is an official stat, fortunately and unfortunately according to your opinion I guess. Tons of things take place in a game to effect a win/loss. Generational guys like Brady, Bree’s, elway have contributed significantly to their W-L record, Elway led “the drive” And I agree, if Zach gets blame for losses, then he gets credit for wins and the same applies to White. Zach’s an easy guy to dump and I don’t think his future is long here, but let’s be fair White didn’t hold a lead in the last 2 games and lost both games. You hold both guys accountable.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Is it a QB's job to hold a lead? Isn't that more put on the defense? They could extend a lead, yes, but the holding of it would not come down to the QB.

The thing is, there are far fewer factors that impact completion percentage, TDs, INTs and yards passing than there are that impact wins or losses.

[SackExchangeNYJ]

15 hours ago, football guy said:

He’s absolutely responsible. I think the point is trying to pin the loss solely on him, or acting like he played poorly, or persuading oneself that the result would’ve been much different with another QB is ludicrous though.

It’s a disappointing loss and had the QB converted on 2 or 3 more throws we probably win the game. For that you fault him because he didn’t execute. But if you come away from this game thinking that Zach Wilson doesn’t have what it takes to be a good QB now or in the future than I can’t help you

And if you come away from the Vikings game thinking Mike White doesn't have what it takes to be a good QB now or in the future then I can't help you.

[56mehl56]

2 minutes ago, SackExchangeNYJ said:

And if you come away from the Vikings game thinking Mike White doesn't have what it takes to be a good QB now or in the future then I can't help you.

Imagine the spin here today if Zach didn't get the Jets in the EZ for the go ahead score in the 4th . Then imagine him doing it 6 times.  

[Barry McCockinner]

 

[sackdance]

14 hours ago, doitny said:

thats why some people here make me laugh. they expect the defense to stand on its head every week and one mistake and its there fault. but the offense scores 17 and has a QB who completes half his passes and there not the sole reason we lost. 

the QB is bad for most of the game but one mistake by the defense and its like...hey its there fault too.

Opening drive. Defense SLEEPWALKS through a whole drive and - all is forgiven and forgotten with a goal line stand?

Our compromised offense started the game at its own 2 yard line - can’t run the ball an inch - and ultimately we’re punting from the 1-inch line … and all we can talk about is Zach Wilson (who isn’t even our starting quarterback any more)?

The whole team did not rise to the occasion and - frankly - ZW played well enough to secure a win, or at least that tie.