QB is NOT the biggest problem with this team

[BroadwayJoe12]

Correct. It is the lack of a QB that is our biggest problem. 

[Darnold's Forehead]

3 minutes ago, Squirt said:

Mike White is not a franchise QB. He has good stats but how many games has he won? Also how many TD's and points? Plus he is injury prone and won't last half a season. The most important stats for a QB is wins and points on the board. MW is a career back up.

This is such a foolish take it is mind boggling, so I will assume you are a troll and take the bait regardless.  He's 2-4 as a starter, 1-2 on a horrendous team last year.  Zach is 8-13.  Mike White has a higher win % than Zach, and most of Zach's wins come this year.  He's injury prone?  Maybe, but it's a lazy take.  Got repeatedly hit to the ribs against Buffalo.  Zach has missed time each year as well.  The last time we had a QB start all 16 games for us was 2015, just to put your expectations into perspective.

Wins are not a QB's stats.  End.  If you would like to refute that, go ahead and try.  Handing off to Breece Hall while throwing for 150 yards and watching your defense cripple the opposing back-up QB is not a positive reflection of the QB in any means.  Also Zach has averaged 19.3 points of offense this year.  Mike White has averaged 21. 

Zach is 1-3 his last 4 games.  Where are the wins?

[Dunnie]

This is such a foolish take it is mind boggling, so I will assume you are a troll and take the bait regardless.  He's 2-4 as a starter, 1-2 on a horrendous team last year.  Zach is 8-13.  Mike White has a higher win % than Zach, and most of Zach's wins come this year.  He's injury prone?  Maybe, but it's a lazy take.  Got repeatedly hit to the ribs against Buffalo.  Zach has missed time each year as well.  The last time we had a QB start all 16 games for us was 2015, just to put your expectations into perspective.
Wins are not a QB's stats.  End.  If you would like to refute that, go ahead and try.  Handing off to Breece Hall while throwing for 150 yards and watching your defense cripple the opposing back-up QB is not a positive reflection of the QB in any means.  Also Zach has averaged 19.3 points of offense this year.  Mike White has averaged 21. 
Zach is 1-3 his last 4 games.  Where are the wins?

What is Mike White in his last 3 games ?

The problems on offense or not limited to QB. Some of the blame has to go to MLF.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Ron Rico]

13 hours ago, Xtina said:

There has to be a reason why Zach starts out pretty well then sort of implodes and this is the first reasonable explanation I’ve seen. Other than ADD which is a lazy knee jerk response 

It's actually my go to response. Zach has the attention span of a sponge.

[Ron Rico]

17 minutes ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

This is such a foolish take it is mind boggling, so I will assume you are a troll and take the bait regardless.  He's 2-4 as a starter, 1-2 on a horrendous team last year.  Zach is 8-13.  Mike White has a higher win % than Zach, and most of Zach's wins come this year.  He's injury prone?  Maybe, but it's a lazy take.  Got repeatedly hit to the ribs against Buffalo.  Zach has missed time each year as well.  The last time we had a QB start all 16 games for us was 2015, just to put your expectations into perspective.

Wins are not a QB's stats.  End.  If you would like to refute that, go ahead and try.  Handing off to Breece Hall while throwing for 150 yards and watching your defense cripple the opposing back-up QB is not a positive reflection of the QB in any means.  Also Zach has averaged 19.3 points of offense this year.  Mike White has averaged 21. 

Zach is 1-3 his last 4 games.  Where are the wins?

They have nothing else, so that became the mantra (5-2).

Well, now he's 0-1. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

1 hour ago, xJayce said:

Overall, the offense performed really well in the Vikes games but died in the red zone for some reason. That is a MUCH better problem to have than generally being unable to move the ball other than jump balls. 

Don't get me wrong, last game was Zach's best stat line, but the offense wasn't really moving other than those prayer balls that uncharacteristically went our way.

And again, if you're saying: "Oh, MLF sucks, we only scored 22 against the vikes", you're forgetting that execution was at play. We dropped a TD pass in the end zone. The oline couldn't punch it in from the 1. Miscommunication between White and GW on a route in the end zone. 

You can say what you want about the play calling, the team did not perform in the end zone for some reason. And addressing that is a significantly better issue than "Gee, what play can I draw up where my QB won't throw it 5 yards behind an open receiver".

 

I don't want to get caught up in woulda couldas, if we had better clock management maybe we win the Detroit game. It has to work the same way for all parties involved.

My issue with MLF's offense goes way beyond the Vikes game. The bread and butter of a Shanahan offense is supposed to be running the ball and getting the most out of zone blocking, and is supposed to create running opportunities with any RB and any old O line man. 

Well, his offenses can't run the ball. In addition, regardless of MW or ZW, there re way, way too many free rushers getting in on the QB's on way too frequent of a basis. Its why MW got hurt.  

MLF also tries to get way to cute, as he does in the red zone and did in the red zone, which was a major part of the performance in the red zone in the Vikings game, and you didnt have a QB in who was throwing it 5 yards behind an open receiver.

The offense largely sucked until the end of the game against the Vikings, and the Vikings are a putrid defense. The offense scored 12 points against the Bills, 12. The Bills are a good offense but teams score on the Bills, they are not a dominant defense. MLF sucks. His offense sucks. ZW sucks, and has no business playing QB in the NFL right now, but that does not make MLF any better.

I hope to be proven wrong, but I think MLF is a terrible OC, and getting in another jag QB does not solve that. Sure, you want to bring in a great QB, Im sure it will mask MLFs deficiencies, but where the hell are we getting a great QB from? Teams don't let them go, best you can hope for is a JAG that another team no longer wants. 

Can you really let JD, Saleh and MLF select another QB and expect them to develop another QB after this debacle?? I sure as sh*t wouldt. ZW was MLF's pick more than anyone.

 

[xJayce]

11 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

 

I don't want to get caught up in woulda couldas, if we had better clock management maybe we win the Detroit game. It has to work the same way for all parties involved.

My issue with MLF's offense goes way beyond the Vikes game. The bread and butter of a Shanahan offense is supposed to be running the ball and getting the most out of zone blocking, and is supposed to create running opportunities with any RB and any old O line man. 

Well, his offenses can't run the ball. In addition, regardless of MW or ZW, there re way, way too many free rushers getting in on the QB's on way too frequent of a basis. Its why MW got hurt.  

MLF also tries to get way to cute, as he does in the red zone and did in the red zone, which was a major part of the performance in the red zone in the Vikings game, and you didnt have a QB in who was throwing it 5 yards behind an open receiver.

The offense largely sucked until the end of the game against the Vikings, and the Vikings are a putrid defense. The offense scored 12 points against the Bills, 12. The Bills are a good offense but teams score on the Bills, they are not a dominant defense. MLF sucks. His offense sucks. ZW sucks, and has no business playing QB in the NFL right now, but that does not make MLF any better.

I hope to be proven wrong, but I think MLF is a terrible OC, and getting in another jag QB does not solve that. Sure, you want to bring in a great QB, Im sure it will mask MLFs deficiencies, but where the hell are we getting a great QB from? Teams don't let them go, best you can hope for is a JAG that another team no longer wants. 

Can you really let JD, Saleh and MLF select another QB and expect them to develop another QB after this debacle?? I sure as sh*t wouldt. ZW was MLF's pick more than anyone.

 

Completely agree on the clock management... I was definitely confused as to why no time out was used.

So, from what you're saying about not running the ball, and free rushers, where does that land? Is this on the Oline? The RB? The QB? I don't think the play call is to let guys run through, or to only run for a couple yards. We've had guys come in, play well for a couple games, then struggle (other than Breece). When running outside, defenders were all over it. When running inside, the Oline often wasn't getting any push. On whom does that fall?

And why are we saying the play calling sucked? Guys are open. We simply didn't get the ball to them. That was part of Detroit's issues as well (Goff missed quite a few passes). Are we saying that asking Zach to throw a crosser to an open WR is a bad play call?

And the Bills game was a bit of a disaster weather wise (the Bills offense was pretty bad as well). And the Bills ARE a top 5 defense (as per NFL, sportsnaut, and a couple other sites I quickly googled).

I didn't like some of the play calling at the end of the Vikes game, especially in goal line, but look what they did against Detroit. Goal line, and a quick pass from Zach to Uzomah. I think that's what they tried against the Vikes, but Wilson went flat while White threw corner. Obviously they were not on the same page. The O tried running a couple times up the middle against the Vikes and got nowhere. They felt it was worth trying something else. It didn't work either. Miscommunication, dropped pass. Sucks, but that's life.

And yes, I definitely think they'll get another shot at QB. Hell, they may come back next season with White and Wilson as QBs 1 and 2 (in whichever order you prefer).
 

[VJphillyfan]

49 minutes ago, Coquito said:

It's actually my go to response. Zach has the attention span of a sponge.

Sponge Bob SquarePants wins that game at qb yesterday 

[VJphillyfan]

47 minutes ago, Coquito said:

They have nothing else, so that became the mantra (5-2).

Well, now he's 0-1. 

Zach is now 5-3.  Will still have a winning record after he loses on Thursday.  Egg on your faces!

[Flea Flicking Frank]

6 minutes ago, xJayce said:

Completely agree on the clock management... I was definitely confused as to why no time out was used.

So, from what you're saying about not running the ball, and free rushers, where does that land? Is this on the Oline? The RB? The QB? I don't think the play call is to let guys run through, or to only run for a couple yards. We've had guys come in, play well for a couple games, then struggle (other than Breece). When running outside, defenders were all over it. When running inside, the Oline often wasn't getting any push. On whom does that fall?

And why are we saying the play calling sucked? Guys are open. We simply didn't get the ball to them. That was part of Detroit's issues as well (Goff missed quite a few passes). Are we saying that asking Zach to throw a crosser to an open WR is a bad play call?

And the Bills game was a bit of a disaster weather wise (the Bills offense was pretty bad as well). And the Bills ARE a top 5 defense (as per NFL, sportsnaut, and a couple other sites I quickly googled).

I didn't like some of the play calling at the end of the Vikes game, especially in goal line, but look what they did against Detroit. Goal line, and a quick pass from Zach to Uzomah. I think that's what they tried against the Vikes, but Wilson went flat while White threw corner. Obviously they were not on the same page. The O tried running a couple times up the middle against the Vikes and got nowhere. They felt it was worth trying something else. It didn't work either. Miscommunication, dropped pass. Sucks, but that's life.

And yes, I definitely think they'll get another shot at QB. Hell, they may come back next season with White and Wilson as QBs 1 and 2 (in whichever order you prefer).
 

Lets not get hung up play call, an OC does way more, or at least is responsible for way more than just the simple play call. You realize that the O line has very specific blocking assignments on each play right? Is it truly the players on every play, or is it the blocking scheme, or the design? Probably a mix of multiple issues, but the number of times Dline or LB'ers come through untouched is really alarming, and I don't put that all on the line as individuals in a zone blocking scheme. 

I think at times MLF tries to get way too cute, and at times he is way too predictable. 

Play calling is like a game of chess, and I don't see MLF winning the chess match at all, and I am completely isolating QB play from that, and will even use the Vikings and Bills games more than I will the ZW games.

An OC does so much more than simply call plays. This whole idea of calling good plays or bad plays is one of the more uninformed takes in Jet land, and that is saying a lot

[xJayce]

5 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Lets not get hung up play call, an OC does way more, or at least is responsible for way more than just the simple play call. You realize that the O line has very specific blocking assignments on each play right? Is it truly the players on every play, or is it the blocking scheme, or the design? Probably a mix of multiple issues, but the number of times Dline or LB'ers come through untouched is really alarming, and I don't put that all on the line as individuals in a zone blocking scheme. 

An OC does so much more than simply call plays. This whole idea of calling good plays or bad plays is one of the more uninformed takes in Jet land, and that is saying a lot

Got it. I thought the case against MLF was all about the play calls (or that was my interpretation from most of the other threads). And yes, Oline has specific blocking assignments. And I agree, we can't have free rushers all game (I mean, Milano from the Bills was a wrecking ball and no one touched him twice). I don't know enough about why those players got through to have an opinion (ie - did someone miss an assignment? was there supposed to be hot route if there was a blitz? etc).

Quote

I think at times MLF tries to get way too cute, and at times he is way too predictable. 

Play calling is like a game of chess, and I don't see MLF winning the chess match at all, and I am completely isolating QB play from that, and will even use the Vikings and Bills games more than I will the ZW games.

If we're talking about play calling (see earlier comment about it not being about play calling), here's the issue. Is he trying to be unpredictable at the wrong moments? That becomes subjective. If the play works, he's a genius. If it doesn't, he's too cute. This is where I line up. If playmakers are in positions to make plays, then good. If not, try something else.

We've had opportunities to make plays, but we left them on the field because of lack of execution. Detroit took full advantage of an opportunity on 4th and inches. They threw a short pass to a guy that had dropped his last target (only other target I believe), and the guy run for a 50 yard TD. Is that too cute? The standard on 4th and inches is run the ball down their throat, no?

I'm not saying MLF is good or bad, I'm just saying we're leaving soooo many yards / pts on the field every game because of poor execution, it's really hard to determine what MLF is sometimes. 

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, xJayce said:

I love how the OP also mentions 'it's not execution, it's the system failing' when a QB continuously misses open guys.

I mean, is the point of the system not to scheme guys open?? I don't understand... 

Clearly MLF is trying to sabotage Zach Wilson and hurt his own chances of ever getting a HC job anywhere.

But not Mike White, though.  White just isn't a good QB.  Not MLF's fault there.  

[Jetsfan80]

16 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

This has to be a candidate for most idiotic thread

Mike LaFleur’s biggest mistake was watching pre-draft tape on Zach Wilson and endorsing him as a #2 overall pick 

Do we even know for sure MLF really "endorsed" Zach Wilson?  After all, reports have suggested he's been the biggest advocate in the building for Mike White starting of late.  

[Jetsfan80]

15 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

QB has been the biggest problem with this team not just now, but for about 5 decades straight, outside of the occasional partial seasons of slight hope that then never ultimately pan out.

Nah man.  It's all been the fault of Paul Hackett, Mike Heimerdinger, Brian Schottenheimer, Tony Sparano, Marty Mornhinweg, Chan Gailey, John Morton, Jeremy Bates, Dowell Loggains and now Mike LaFleur.  QB has nothing to do with it!

[Jetsfan80]

14 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Fair enough but as Zach is developing why can't it be like 80/20 or 70/30 the stuff Zach does well?

"developing".  lmao.

[Jetsfan80]

14 hours ago, Maxman said:

If we give you your old account back can you just start using that one again? This one isn't doing so well in the latest Nielsen ratings.

Is he Nico?  Please tell me he's Nico.

[Jetsfan80]

13 hours ago, Hex said:

Zach has an issue of recovering from mistakes. Once he makes one he’s bound to make 30 more. It’s frustrating in every way

That said, the one thing Zach has done well forever is rollouts and he was successful on the 3 or 4 plays that LaFleur called with those. Why MLF didn’t call it more is beyond me. I wouldn’t be sad to see both gone but I would rather LaFleur get canned over Zach at this point.

@T0mShane already explained this one.  You can only run a few rollouts a game.  Otherwise you're restricting throws to only 1/3 of the field too often.  And you also start to become far too predictable to boot.  It's not like Wilson is any good at selling play action so he isn't going to "trick" the D very often.

QB's have to be able to make throws using at least most of the field with some consistency in order to succeed.  Period.  

[Jetsfan80]

13 hours ago, Maxman said:

It has happened every week this year? 

• The Jets got 9 yards on 1st down.
• The Jets ran on 2nd down and didn't get the first down.

Happened a few times with Mike White.  Not so much with Wilson.

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, xJayce said:

Overall, the offense performed really well in the Vikes games but died in the red zone for some reason. That is a MUCH better problem to have than generally being unable to move the ball other than jump balls. 

Don't get me wrong, last game was Zach's best stat line, but the offense wasn't really moving other than those prayer balls that uncharacteristically went our way.

And again, if you're saying: "Oh, MLF sucks, we only scored 22 against the vikes", you're forgetting that execution was at play. We dropped a TD pass in the end zone. The oline couldn't punch it in from the 1. Miscommunication between White and GW on a route in the end zone. 

You can say what you want about the play calling, the team did not perform in the end zone for some reason. And addressing that is a significantly better issue than "Gee, what play can I draw up where my QB won't throw it 5 yards behind an open receiver".

 

3 points apiece on several sustained drives >>>> tons of 3 and outs.

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, Squirt said:

Mike White is not a franchise QB. He has good stats but how many games has he won? Also how many TD's and points? Plus he is injury prone and won't last half a season. The most important stats for a QB is wins and points on the board. MW is a career back up.

And what is Zach Wilson, squirt?

[Flea Flicking Frank]

11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Nah man.  It's all been the fault of Paul Hackett, Mike Heimerdinger, Brian Schottenheimer, Tony Sparano, Marty Mornhinweg, Chan Gailey, John Morton, Jeremy Bates, Dowell Loggains and now Mike LaFleur.  QB has nothing to do with it!

so none of those guys have any responsibility in identifying a QB? They were all very good, just got unlucky? But Andy Reid just keeps getting lucky? You actually believe this nonsense??

[T0mShane]

20 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

@T0mShane already explained this one.  You can only run a few rollouts a game.  Otherwise you're restricting throws to only 1/3 of the field too often.  And you also start to become far too predictable to boot.  It's not like Wilson is any good at selling play action so he isn't going to "trick" the D very often.

QB's have to be able to make throws using at least most of the field with some consistency in order to succeed.  Period.  

I noticed something yesterday about Wilson—when he throws from a traditional dropback, he spreads his feet super-wide which sinks his head, and I don’t think he can see over the line. He compensates by rolling out and/or trying to throw from weird platforms to stay more vertical in the pocket, which is where his footwork goes to sh*t and his passes start to float. Obviously, he can’t be a viable QB playing like that. 

[T0mShane]

19 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And what is Zach Wilson, squirt?

Mike White scores more points than either Zach or Flacco, so that’s a weird one.

[JohnnyLV]

46 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I noticed something yesterday about Wilson—when he throws from a traditional dropback, he spreads his feet super-wide which sinks his head, and I don’t think he can see over the line. He compensates by rolling out and/or trying to throw from weird platforms to stay more vertical in the pocket, which is where his footwork goes to sh*t and his passes start to float. Obviously, he can’t be a viable QB playing like that. 

There isn't a QB in the NFL that can "see over the line". Literally. Being taller helps you see more over the gaps so it is an advantage and helps in not getting as many passes blocked. But basically QBs need to see around the line

[Augustiniak]

49 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I noticed something yesterday about Wilson—when he throws from a traditional dropback, he spreads his feet super-wide which sinks his head, and I don’t think he can see over the line. He compensates by rolling out and/or trying to throw from weird platforms to stay more vertical in the pocket, which is where his footwork goes to sh*t and his passes start to float. Obviously, he can’t be a viable QB playing like that. 

I have been wondering if at least part of the problem in the pocket is his lack of height.  How did the saints use brees?

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

"developing".  lmao.

Well he still hasn't played 1.5 seasons of football and has only really had one training camp. People also need to realize that had there been a "competition" Zach would have easily won over White. White apparently improved over the season playing scout team, but obviously Zach has no time to improve and needs to be elite right this second.

Zach showed some progress Sunday. People will ignore that too.

[GangGreened]

 

[Saul Goodman]

5 minutes ago, GangGreened said:

 

This video makes me angry. I’m trying to stay mature and above the “I hate Zach” thinking and posting. I mean, he didn’t draft himself and it’s not his fault he sucks (the work ethic is there). But, I really hate his play. I wish I never had to watch him take another snap for the Jets. 

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

I have been wondering if at least part of the problem in the pocket is his lack of height.  How did the saints use brees?

 

[Trotter]

This is prob not fair but let’s just play it out.

what is this teams realistic record if jimmy g was the qb from the start of the year.

That is not an endorsement of him and I understand he signed back with sf but let’s just say the jets had signed him as a backup and for whatever readon he started the season and never looked back.

would we still be talking about the poor job by lafleur?

[BroadwayJoe12]

42 minutes ago, GangGreened said:

 

I didn't realize how badly he was missing open receivers until I re-watched his throws. I was trying to be objective, but it's impossible to watch his play vs White and not see how horrendous he is playing. I made the mistake of holding out hope too long on Sanchez, Geno then Darnold. When you see accuracy and performance at league-low levels, they don't ever recover. It is not that it won't happen with Zach, it is just that the likelihood is so statistically low, that I will find zero fault in the management from letting him go and a few years down the line things click for him. I believe that White can be a playoff QB i this league, but I also admit that I could be wrong and his fragility limits him. I am just think the likelihood of him becoming a top 15 starter is higher than Wilson. And that's all we've required this season and myriad of others. 

[Xtina]

6 hours ago, Coquito said:

It's actually my go to response. Zach has the attention span of a sponge.

Ok good you admit to a lazy knee jerk response ☹️And I don’t know what the attention span of a sponge may be but given how long one holds water I would say pretty long 

[BornJetsFan1983]

20 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Not a thread to argue Zach was White. Any objective analysis would suggest that both are flawed enough that neither might be the long term solution.

I believe that the vast vast vast majority of the problem with this team is Mike LaFleur.

I would put forth that he is one of the worst OCs the Jets have ever had. And we have had so many complete stinkers as OC.

Although there are many issues (being maybe the worst play caller in the NFL is ignored here) the biggest one is:

Mike LaFleur wants to run his system PERIOD.

He believes that his system is essentially perfect and any breakdown in that system is not a function of a system fit, but a lack of execution. And that is completely and totally wrong.

Zach Wilson coming out of college was known to struggle/be weaker with certain types of plays in college. What were those? Dump off passes,. especially to the right and crossing patterns in the middle of the field and somewhat with quick slants.

Where Wilson was elite was in exploiting the width of the field with outs, come backs stick routs and sideline routes being exceptionally good at back shoulder throws and especially at exploiting the deep thirds of the field. He was excellent at throwing off of RPO motion and especially rolling both right and left and throwing down the field vertically. 

Because of his strengths, Wilson excelled in spread -wide formations and open splits and had uncanny ability to exploit defenses outside the numbers on the FAR hash.  Because of all the pressure he put on the edges he was exceptional at throwing up the seam and also middle screens.

So what does this loser of an OC do? Try to force Zach into his "system"

And his system is literally the worst possible fit for him as a QB.

In LaFleur's own words his version of the "Shanahan" offense is offense in a phone booth Literally a system designed to attack the fugging MIDDLE of the field between the numbers with short slants and crossing routes, timing routes, a running game focused between the tackles and to attack the edge with swing passes and screens and try to get YAC. Literally everything it tries to do is the exact opposite of what the guy is good at. And the plays that LaFleur runs are not quick developing plays and require multiple reads and very quick decisions and well our OL sucks.

And we saw it today. Zach was able to make quite a few plays outside the pocket and when attacking the deep third, but does LaFleur go with it? Not a chance. He stubbornly goes back to his "system" and Zach loses his mind and really struggles the third quarter. Then when it matters in the 4th Zach is allowed to do what he is decent at and makes some plays.

So in the end it was a mediocre outing. But you are literally asking the guy to do what he is literally not good at. Over and over and over.

Take Mac Jones. He sucks. He is not as good of a QB as Zach but he can do some things reasonably well. He can throw screens and pick plays and plays in the middle of the field, screens and hand off the ball a lot. So the NE offense is entirely that.

Make no mistake Zach would be a MUCH better QB with competent coaching. He would be successful in San Diego's system and Bruce Arians and Sean Payton would LOVE him.

But LaFleur is too stubborn to adjust for Zach. Zach struggles he gets emotional and amped up and loses his mind. 

I am not sure Zach can ever be successful under this guy. White is not very good btw, but he is better at the core LaFleur principles so the offense is slightly more effective, but White has no off schedule ability and to be honest is not very clutch.

Then add in the fact that LaFleur is a HORRIBLE play caller and clearly has no idea how to script opening drives and it is just a mess

LaFleur is the brother of his best friend so he will never do anything, but LaFleur should be gone. BTW under Shanahan Zach would be successful because he adapts for the strengths and weaknesses of his players something LaFleur abjectly refuses to do.

um yeah it is. The system is the reason why you dont need a superstar qb to win. The system literlaly is in place so a average qb can excell and let our playmakers win. 

QB is the biggest problem.

[BP]

The Lions started the game on defense daring the Jets to throw the ball. And it took lafleur a while to figure that out. 
 

Lafleur better get used to that defensive game plan moving forward. I expect jax to stack the line and dare them to throw on Thursday.

a few points.

1)If your offensive line sucks why not have the qb take 3 step drops and throw quick slants over the middle? The lions had nobody over the middle of the field behind the los on defense.

2)It seems to me that the Jets always seem content going 3 and out until they get behind. And then there’s urgency to score points. They always start games slow on offense

now Whether that’s the stupid ass script (which I hate) or his play calling, it seems overly conservative until they get behind.

[Bleedin Green]

54 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Nah man.  It's all been the fault of Paul Hackett, Mike Heimerdinger, Brian Schottenheimer, Tony Sparano, Marty Mornhinweg, Chan Gailey, John Morton, Jeremy Bates, Dowell Loggains and now Mike LaFleur.  QB has nothing to do with it!

Fair.  I mean, could you even imagine if the Jets managed to get a guy like Brian Daboll as say, oh I don't know, their QB coach, for even just a couple of years?