QB is NOT the biggest problem with this team

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Not letting Zach off the hook. He threw an absolutely abysmal interception when the game was tied at 10. Zach doesn't get a pass here.

Every time Zach gets his chance its the same old dried up story ...well if Zach does good now .... Bla Bla Bla . Problem is Zach never does good now. Even in his so called good games he was wildly inconsistent.

So now we are playing the Jags who have a Superior QB that is light years ahead of Zach and once again its ..."Well this is Zach's last chance to move the team and be competent" and in all honesty that ship has sailed has been shot at and finally sunk . Zach Wilson , an extremely talented football QB can not play the QB position in the NFL and I am 100% convinced of that and I have been for quite some time. 

And for the Zach crybabies I wanted Zach to be the guy I was very excited when we drafted him and at first I thought he was going to easily be the guy. Its very upsetting we have failed once again to draft a solid QB. As a matter of fact last year when Mike White first came into a game in NE I was like OMFG this is gonna suck but he started completing passes vs NE a game that was already over FWIW and then in the Cincy game he played Lights out and I was like "wow WTF is this" only to be abandoned by the coaching staff because he had one bad game vs Buffalo which was one of the better games a QB had moving the ball vs that stifling defense. Once again Zach has his typical 100 yard games with games below 50% completion rate gets benched and Mike White comes in a looks better than he did last year and also stopped throwing Ints but he did it by continuing to be aggressive. Garrett Wilson starts tearing it up With White at QB and Moore is revitalized . The answer now is quite clear Mike White is the QB of the NY Jets and as soon as he's healthy he is the starter. Shame he got hammered and broke ribs but thats the luck of the NY Jets it always has been for as long as I can remember. 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

19 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Every time Zach gets his chance its the same old dried up story ...well if Zach does good now .... Bla Bla Bla . Problem is Zach never does good now. Even in his so called good games he was wildly inconsistent.

So now we are playing the Jags who have a Superior QB that is light years ahead of Zach and once again its ..."Well this is Zach's last chance to move the team and be competent" and in all honesty that ship has sailed has been shot at and finally sunk . Zach Wilson , an extremely talented football QB can not play the QB position in the NFL and I am 100% convinced of that and I have been for quite some time. 

And for the Zach crybabies I wanted Zach to be the guy I was very excited when we drafted him and at first I thought he was going to easily be the guy. Its very upsetting we have failed once again to draft a solid QB. As a matter of fact last year when Mike White first came into a game in NE I was like OMFG this is gonna suck but he started completing passes vs NE a game that was already over FWIW and then in the Cincy game he played Lights out and I was like "wow WTF is this" only to be abandoned by the coaching staff because he had one bad game vs Buffalo which was one of the better games a QB had moving the ball vs that stifling defense. Once again Zach has his typical 100 yard games with games below 50% completion rate gets benched and Mike White comes in a looks better than he did last year and also stopped throwing Ints but he did it by continuing to be aggressive. Garrett Wilson starts tearing it up With White at QB and Moore is revitalized . The answer now is quite clear Mike White is the QB of the NY Jets and as soon as he's healthy he is the starter. Shame he got hammered and broke ribs but thats the luck of the NY Jets it always has been for as long as I can remember. 

For anyone who doesn't want to read this whole thing. Zach aint it. 

[Embrace the Suck]

On 12/18/2022 at 9:14 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

QBs get paid a lot more money than OCs for a reason.

Which is why the OC should cater to the QB, and not the other way around. A QB that has to run a system he isn't fit for can't be expected to all of a sudden be good at it. It's much easier for an OC to swallow his pride, and do his job. Saleh needs to let MLF know you call the game for the QB you have, as oppose to the QB you want.

On 12/18/2022 at 9:14 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

”Calling the good plays” will never get Zach Wilson to do simple things like completing a simple screen pass.  That’s up to him and he hasn’t proven he can do it over 2 seasons.  

Then why feature it? Why try and force a guy to do what you know he can't do? MW can start as soon as he's healthy, but until then MLF needs to earn his money and stop being a tool.

 

 

 

[VJphillyfan]

2 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Every time Zach gets his chance its the same old dried up story ...well if Zach does good now .... Bla Bla Bla . Problem is Zach never does good now. Even in his so called good games he was wildly inconsistent.

So now we are playing the Jags who have a Superior QB that is light years ahead of Zach and once again its ..."Well this is Zach's last chance to move the team and be competent" and in all honesty that ship has sailed has been shot at and finally sunk . Zach Wilson , an extremely talented football QB can not play the QB position in the NFL and I am 100% convinced of that and I have been for quite some time. 

And for the Zach crybabies I wanted Zach to be the guy I was very excited when we drafted him and at first I thought he was going to easily be the guy. Its very upsetting we have failed once again to draft a solid QB. As a matter of fact last year when Mike White first came into a game in NE I was like OMFG this is gonna suck but he started completing passes vs NE a game that was already over FWIW and then in the Cincy game he played Lights out and I was like "wow WTF is this" only to be abandoned by the coaching staff because he had one bad game vs Buffalo which was one of the better games a QB had moving the ball vs that stifling defense. Once again Zach has his typical 100 yard games with games below 50% completion rate gets benched and Mike White comes in a looks better than he did last year and also stopped throwing Ints but he did it by continuing to be aggressive. Garrett Wilson starts tearing it up With White at QB and Moore is revitalized . The answer now is quite clear Mike White is the QB of the NY Jets and as soon as he's healthy he is the starter. Shame he got hammered and broke ribs but thats the luck of the NY Jets it always has been for as long as I can remember. 

The excuses for Zach Wilson are endless. 

[sackdance]

4 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Not letting Zach off the hook. He threw an absolutely abysmal interception when the game was tied at 10. Zach doesn't get a pass here.

Zach is the backup. He came in - made big plays (particularly at end of 1st half & game), certainly played well enough to win - while committing 1 ugly turnover and a number of missed opportunities.
 

This was enough for the Jets to win the game … 
 

EXCEPT the defense f’d up at a critical moment (again), Saleh’s clock management failed at an even more critical juncture, and special teams failed spectacularly (again). 
 

I don’t understand the energy expended on a demoted quarterback. It can wait. It should wait.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

1 hour ago, sackdance said:

Zach is the backup. He came in - made big plays (particularly at end of 1st half & game), certainly played well enough to win - while committing 1 ugly turnover and a number of missed opportunities.
 

This was enough for the Jets to win the game … 
 

EXCEPT the defense f’d up at a critical moment (again), Saleh’s clock management failed at an even more critical juncture, and special teams failed spectacularly (again). 
 

I don’t understand the energy expended on a demoted quarterback. It can wait. It should wait.

It was a team loss. Not absolving anyone else for not doing their job, but Zach Wilson contributed to the loss.

[Copernicus]

19 hours ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

everything you say can be true, and MLF still sucks, but carry on

Carry on? How much of the Jets have you watched over your lifetime? The last 10 years? And you think MLF flat out sucks and he hasnt even completed his second year at the position? OC is more that just calling plays. Are there some he wants back? Im sure. How about the development of young talent on the offense? Does he get no credit for Garrett Wilson (alternate pro bowler)? Breece Hall's success before injury? Michael Carter?  Max Mitchell when no one expected much? Mike White when most thought he'd be cut to start the season? Bam Knight? You want Gase and Loggins back developing players and calling plays? 

[Copernicus]

5 minutes ago, Copernicus said:

Carry on? How much of the Jets have you watched over your lifetime? The last 10 years? And you think MLF flat out sucks and he hasnt even completed his second year at the position? OC is more that just calling plays. Are there some he wants back? Im sure. How about the development of young talent on the offense? Does he get no credit for Garrett Wilson (alternate pro bowler)? Breece Hall's success before injury? Michael Carter?  Max Mitchell when no one expected much? Mike White when most thought he'd be cut to start the season? Bam Knight? You want Gase and Loggins back developing players and calling plays? Jeremy Bates with Todd Bowles?

 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

2 hours ago, Copernicus said:

Carry on? How much of the Jets have you watched over your lifetime? The last 10 years? And you think MLF flat out sucks and he hasnt even completed his second year at the position? OC is more that just calling plays. Are there some he wants back? Im sure. How about the development of young talent on the offense? Does he get no credit for Garrett Wilson (alternate pro bowler)? Breece Hall's success before injury? Michael Carter?  Max Mitchell when no one expected much? Mike White when most thought he'd be cut to start the season? Bam Knight? You want Gase and Loggins back developing players and calling plays? 

Not sure what your point is, at all. Gase and Loggins being terrible does not make MLF good. RB's, WR's and QB's are not the same thing.

People act like MW is all the sudden Kurt Warner. I hope he beocmes that, but right now he is hurt because of multiple free rushers coming through MLF's line untouched, but as I said, carry on....

[AZSOJ]

On 12/18/2022 at 7:01 PM, johnnysd said:

Not a thread to argue Zach was White. Any objective analysis would suggest that both are flawed enough that neither might be the long term solution.

I believe that the vast vast vast majority of the problem with this team is Mike LaFleur.

I would put forth that he is one of the worst OCs the Jets have ever had. And we have had so many complete stinkers as OC.

Although there are many issues (being maybe the worst play caller in the NFL is ignored here) the biggest one is:

Mike LaFleur wants to run his system PERIOD.

He believes that his system is essentially perfect and any breakdown in that system is not a function of a system fit, but a lack of execution. And that is completely and totally wrong.

Zach Wilson coming out of college was known to struggle/be weaker with certain types of plays in college. What were those? Dump off passes,. especially to the right and crossing patterns in the middle of the field and somewhat with quick slants.

Where Wilson was elite was in exploiting the width of the field with outs, come backs stick routs and sideline routes being exceptionally good at back shoulder throws and especially at exploiting the deep thirds of the field. He was excellent at throwing off of RPO motion and especially rolling both right and left and throwing down the field vertically. 

Because of his strengths, Wilson excelled in spread -wide formations and open splits and had uncanny ability to exploit defenses outside the numbers on the FAR hash.  Because of all the pressure he put on the edges he was exceptional at throwing up the seam and also middle screens.

So what does this loser of an OC do? Try to force Zach into his "system"

And his system is literally the worst possible fit for him as a QB.

In LaFleur's own words his version of the "Shanahan" offense is offense in a phone booth Literally a system designed to attack the fugging MIDDLE of the field between the numbers with short slants and crossing routes, timing routes, a running game focused between the tackles and to attack the edge with swing passes and screens and try to get YAC. Literally everything it tries to do is the exact opposite of what the guy is good at. And the plays that LaFleur runs are not quick developing plays and require multiple reads and very quick decisions and well our OL sucks.

And we saw it today. Zach was able to make quite a few plays outside the pocket and when attacking the deep third, but does LaFleur go with it? Not a chance. He stubbornly goes back to his "system" and Zach loses his mind and really struggles the third quarter. Then when it matters in the 4th Zach is allowed to do what he is decent at and makes some plays.

So in the end it was a mediocre outing. But you are literally asking the guy to do what he is literally not good at. Over and over and over.

Take Mac Jones. He sucks. He is not as good of a QB as Zach but he can do some things reasonably well. He can throw screens and pick plays and plays in the middle of the field, screens and hand off the ball a lot. So the NE offense is entirely that.

Make no mistake Zach would be a MUCH better QB with competent coaching. He would be successful in San Diego's system and Bruce Arians and Sean Payton would LOVE him.

But LaFleur is too stubborn to adjust for Zach. Zach struggles he gets emotional and amped up and loses his mind. 

I am not sure Zach can ever be successful under this guy. White is not very good btw, but he is better at the core LaFleur principles so the offense is slightly more effective, but White has no off schedule ability and to be honest is not very clutch.

Then add in the fact that LaFleur is a HORRIBLE play caller and clearly has no idea how to script opening drives and it is just a mess

LaFleur is the brother of his best friend so he will never do anything, but LaFleur should be gone. BTW under Shanahan Zach would be successful because he adapts for the strengths and weaknesses of his players something LaFleur abjectly refuses to do.

SD, this maybe the case but there is no denying ZW is fundementally flawed.  Also, why is it that the QB;s in 2021 and now 2022 out execute and out play him.  BTW- how many middle of the field throws has he made lately where he has lead the WR and hot over thrown him or behind him.  How many passess end up in the dirt on a swing pass or is thrown... NO touch, no feel for the game and is 1 sec slower then MW getting rid of the ball.   Just saying...

[AZSOJ]

Just now, AZSOJ said:

SD, this maybe the case but there is no denying ZW is fundementally flawed.  Also, why is it that the QB;s in 2021 and now 2022 out execute and out play him.  BTW- how many middle of the field throws has he made lately where he has lead the WR and not over thrown him or behind him.  How many passess end up in the dirt on a swing pass or is thrown... NO touch, no feel for the game and is 1 sec slower then MW getting rid of the ball.    just saying...