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Three Things that must happen in the offseason


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3 minutes ago, hotrodcharlie said:

You may be right but things have changed, its not a silly twitter fight anymore like last offseason. He is out of second chances and his livelihood is on the line. That has a way of motivating men

I think he will show up ready to go. Maybe i'm naive but I do believe he will 

I hope you’re right. He’s under contract and has no trade value, so he’s gonna be here. Hard to rely on a guy who can break his kneecap in a non-contact situation, but they will give him every chance. Have to be proactive at OT this year, though. 

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1-the turf is being fixed.

2-at least 1 of the top 3 picks, if not the first round pick, needs to be OL.  FA money needs to be shifted to the OL.   Herbig, McGovern and Fant and not under contract and not realistically franchiseable.  Duane Brown and Tomlinson are under contract, but grossly overpaid.  AVT is returning from a serious injury, Mitchell has blood clots, Becton is a mystery and less than 50/50 if he can be counted on.   Before you invest in  QB you need a solid OL.  The Jets have bungled that with Darnold and Wilson.  Now, they are looking at another mess.  The OL is not in good shape for next year.  

3-JD should put prices on the various QB alternatives.  One of them is MFW.  I would think he is the cheapest and one that can be locked down earliest.  This is why JD gets paid the big money-he needs to decide who to sign for how much money who is going to make the Jets competitive next year.  Committing to the OL will help convince QBs to come here.  

I would hold off on the WRs this offseason.  Try and restructure Corey Davis maybe.   I would focus on the QB and the OL and filling the defensive holes with younger players, and try and work with the WRs and TEs that we have for a year.  

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17 minutes ago, Coquito said:

I can see the Colts offering him more than the $2,540,000 he makes annually with the Jets.

That was the RFA amount so the Jets could attach a 2nd rd pick should a team want to sign him last season. That enabled the Jets to match or let him go for a 2nd rd pick.  No team bit.

To start for the Colts? Maybe...We'll see

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44 minutes ago, hotrodcharlie said:

For the offensive line-

Cut Tomlinson and put Vera-Tucker in his spot. Becton comes back as a RT and the offensive line is fixed.

Brown & Vera-Tucker on one side and Herbig and Becton, a couple ham sandwiches on the other side that you run behind. That's a good line especially for a speed back like Breece Hall

 

Herbig's play has deteriorated the past few weeks. He's a backup.

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1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Neither white nor wilson are going anywhere.  They will battle it out for qb1 next year.

They will not invest in White to be a back up or camp competition.  White will bring cashing in somewhere.  *not to say big money, but much more than he is now.*

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56 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

I just don't see the Jets signing any type of a name Vet this offseason. We are not going after Carr. With his injury history I would not see them signing Jimmy G either. If we had Tannenbaum he would be all in on every vet QB and probably trying to trade for Rodgers.

White's injury is good and bad for the Jets. It is good in that his price will be cheaper but bad in that I am not sure White won't find a more attractive destination. Somewhere like NO might be a place he could land. To me, I want White to succeed but I think objectively he has shown strong backup capability not starter ability. 

I believe the Jets are still committed to Zach. I could actually see changes to offensive staff before they give up on Zach. Listen to what Rex Ryan said, I can almost guarantee that Saleh and JD see it the same way.

One possibility that no one is allowing for is that I think it is possible we draft another QB. In fact I am thinking it is close to 100% they draft a QB but I think that they may actually go high for one.

I do not think they will face the "win now" pressure many seem to think they will. And I do think there is a good chance we make the playoffs still. There is at least one scenario no one is even considering right now for the Jets to get in.

Ok. Well. Agree to disagree. 

Like I said. I don't think they 'give up on Zach'. I think Zach stays and sits, learning at least one more year. If they sign MW, it will be for starter money, simple as that. He WILL be the Jets starter, and they will probably be committed to him for more than one year. 

IMO- the WORST thing they can do is go into next year with a rookie QB and Zach Wilson with no proven NFL starter on the team. Even if they sign a JAG vet as backup. That has disaster written all over it. 

If JD is not feeling the 'win now' pressure he is not doing his job. This team is ready to 'win now'. They are decent QB play away from making the playoffs and good to great QB play away from competing for a ring. If he is smart (which he is) he knows these windows don't come along that often. 

IMO- If you are JD you HAVE to at least bring in an above average QB who is a proven starter to come in and win games. If you have a shot at one of the better QBs in the league who is for one reason or another on the outs with his team- you at least see what it takes to bring him in as well.    

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2 hours ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

1) Fix the goddamn turf. The injuries are way too many, and even though some have taken place in away games, a responsible organization needs to eliminate variables. The Jets need to eliminate the issue with the turf as a variable, and then observe if there are perceivable changes in the amount of injuries we have. A multi-million dollar US team should be intelligent enought to do everyting that is necessary to protect its active assets. 

2) Keep investing high in the oline. You have no other choice. This means doubling down on free agency + draft. Nobody in the oline, with the exception of McGovern is (I can´t believe I am about to type this) reliable. We do not have the surplus of picks of previous years, so greater pressure than ever. No QB will be successfull with that putrid line. Excuse: "We have too many injuries". Reply: See point 1.

3) Mike White has flaws and is unpolished. Zach Wilson is undisciplined, mentally slow, and does not have the basic mechanics needed for a 2nd year QB. Biggest difference. White ignites the offense, Wilson kills their spirit. It is not a difficult decision. Make the decision, Get rid of one of them, and then bring QB competition in the form of a free agent. 

 

 

 

Great post!

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i think a big issue for the qb position is that wilson and white are like night and day as to how the offense runs.  wilson wants to make things happen whereas white prefers to take what the defense gives.  there's advantages and disadvantages to both.  the thing is neither works very well without an effective run game.

next season, if white leaves, they may want to consider streveler or another athletic type qb to back up wilson so there isn't such a change to the offense if wilson goes down.  and la fleur will need to adapt the offense to wilson's strengths.  of course the flip side is they continue to force wilson to be a wco type qb.  it can still happen.  it takes time.

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22 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Ok. Well. Agree to disagree. 

Like I said. I don't think they 'give up on Zach'. I think Zach stays and sits, learning at least one more year. If they sign MW, it will be for starter money, simple as that. He WILL be the Jets starter, and they will probably be committed to him for more than one year. 

IMO- the WORST thing they can do is go into next year with a rookie QB and Zach Wilson with no proven NFL starter on the team. Even if they sign a JAG vet as backup. That has disaster written all over it. 

If JD is not feeling the 'win now' pressure he is not doing his job. This team is ready to 'win now'. They are decent QB play away from making the playoffs and good to great QB play away from competing for a ring. If he is smart (which he is) he knows these windows don't come along that often. 

IMO- If you are JD you HAVE to at least bring in an above average QB who is a proven starter to come in and win games. If you have a shot at one of the better QBs in the league who is for one reason or another on the outs with his team- you at least see what it takes to bring him in as well.    

White might be here to "compete" but there is literally no chance they commit to White as starter. NONE

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26 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

White might be here to "compete" but there is literally no chance they commit to White as starter. NONE

Well, that's my point. Then he wont BE here. He is a FA who showed enough in his career as a young QB to ask for starter money. He won't get top end starter money- far from it, but he will cost the Jets starter money.

So while they can technically afford to sign him and sit him, I can't imagine they will give him a brand new contract with starter money and have him compete for a starting role with Zach. No way. If they sign him, they are committing to sitting Zach and starting White. JMHO.     

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38 minutes ago, rangerous said:

i think a big issue for the qb position is that wilson and white are like night and day as to how the offense runs.  wilson wants to make things happen whereas white prefers to take what the defense gives.  there's advantages and disadvantages to both.  the thing is neither works very well without an effective run game.

next season, if white leaves, they may want to consider streveler or another athletic type qb to back up wilson so there isn't such a change to the offense if wilson goes down.  and la fleur will need to adapt the offense to wilson's strengths.  of course the flip side is they continue to force wilson to be a wco type qb.  it can still happen.  it takes time.

Yes this is true. But I think Wilson is the type of QB they want and he would be fine if he 1. didn't make boneheaded plays/throws. 2. Made more accurate passes- (footwork/basics) 3. processed better/quicker. Mike White cannot do a lot of things Zach can but he is so much better at these basic requirements of the QB position that the Jets would much rather have him running the offense. 

An effective run game helps any and every QB in any and every offense. 

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3 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I think it's very unlikely JD goes into 2023 with the same QB situation. He's created a team that is a good QB away from competing for rings. You think he's going to sit back and hope the QB situation just works itself out? He has one guy who can't stay healthy and the another can't consistently hit a screen pass or a slant.

Our 2023 starter probably isn't on the roster today.

Yeah I think White is a guy a team can roll the dice on if

  1. the team isn't already locked into someone like Wilson (cheap, but not nearly-free; team has hopes for him but knows he isn't relaible) when the rest of the team is playoff-level
  2. the team is early-rebuilding & not expected to be playoff-level competitive (and are likely drafting a QB to boot)

So that'd mean he's a better fit on teams like:

  • Texans, to pair with a QB they draft early
  • Carolina, to pair with a QB they draft early
  • Colts can try him out along with a QB they draft early (if they would rather pay $12MM new $ to cut Ryan than $18MM to keep him).
  • Maybe the Bears because Fields is not only cheap but as the unquestioned starter his style of play means he has a good chance of missing time multiple times during the year & don't want to lose playoff hopes in those games.
  • Pittsburgh, if they dump Trubisky. 
  • GB if they do somehow pull off a Rodgers trade; ditto LVR/Carr.
  • Other playoff or current near-playoff teams who have a cheap but unquestioned QB1 starter: Jaguars, Chargers, Eagles

He could still go elsewhere, but these are the types of roster situations where he fits best, just purely because he can't be relied upon yet to start 12+ games (let alone 15+ games) without getting knocked out.

The reality is the Jets are neither of those first 2 team-types. They can go with Wilson and someone more reliable, or White and someone more reliable. Though technically doable, I'd be surprised if they went with Wilson + re-sign White + also sign another credible veteran. I mean, yeah they could go White+Wilson again, depending on White's cost, but they have seen firsthand these past two years that the team could still have QB issues in 2023 with that duo (even with that duo and another experienced veteran).

I think White would be eager to re-sign here if the Jets aren't going to look for anyone else, figuring he can beat out Wilson no matter how much the team emotionally wants Wilson to be the man. If he gets wind on him again being 1 of 3 then I think he moves on to a team drafting a QB but aren't dead-set on him starting week 1 like the Jets did with Wilson (and Darnold, and Geno, and Sanchez...). 

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah I think White is a guy a team can roll the dice on if

  1. the team isn't already locked into someone like Wilson (cheap, but not nearly-free; team has hopes for him but knows he isn't relaible) when the rest of the team is playoff-level
  2. the team is early-rebuilding & not expected to be playoff-level competitive (and are likely drafting a QB to boot)

So that'd mean he's a better fit on teams like:

  • Texans, to pair with a QB they draft early
  • Carolina, to pair with a QB they draft early
  • Colts can try him out along with a QB they draft early (if they would rather pay $12MM new $ to cut Ryan than $18MM to keep him).
  • Maybe the Bears because Fields is not only cheap but as the unquestioned starter his style of play means he has a good chance of missing time multiple times during the year & don't want to lose playoff hopes in those games.
  • Pittsburgh, if they dump Trubisky. 
  • GB if they do somehow pull off a Rodgers trade; ditto LVR/Carr.
  • Other playoff or current near-playoff teams who have a cheap but unquestioned QB1 starter: Jaguars, Chargers, Eagles

He could still go elsewhere, but these are the types of roster situations where he fits best, just purely because he can't be relied upon yet to start 12+ games (let alone 15+ games) without getting knocked out.

The reality is the Jets are neither of those first 2 team-types. They can go with Wilson and someone more reliable, or White and someone more reliable. Though technically doable, I'd be surprised if they went with Wilson + re-sign White + also sign another credible veteran. I mean, yeah they could go White+Wilson again, depending on White's cost, but they have seen firsthand these past two years that the team could still have QB issues in 2023 with that duo (even with that duo and another experienced veteran).

I think White would be eager to re-sign here if the Jets aren't going to look for anyone else, figuring he can beat out Wilson no matter how much the team emotionally wants Wilson to be the man. If he gets wind on him again being 1 of 3 then I think he moves on to a team drafting a QB but aren't dead-set on him starting week 1 like the Jets did with Wilson (and Darnold, and Geno, and Sanchez...). 

i guess any of those scenarios is possible.  as i see it, even if they have to pay something a little north of 10 million the cost of the position is still much less than most teams are paying their no 1 guy.  much as white makes the la fleur offense run better i kind of think he's more like that other white qb for the cowboys back in the 80's.  danny white seemed to be always the bridesmaid but never the bride and those cowboys teams were loaded.  i think it's all about how committed they are to wilson.  thus far douglas has been pretty good about cutting/trading players without too much concern about them being his draft picks.  i don't think wilson is a given for next season.

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1 hour ago, rangerous said:

i guess any of those scenarios is possible.  as i see it, even if they have to pay something a little north of 10 million the cost of the position is still much less than most teams are paying their no 1 guy.  much as white makes the la fleur offense run better i kind of think he's more like that other white qb for the cowboys back in the 80's.  danny white seemed to be always the bridesmaid but never the bride and those cowboys teams were loaded.  i think it's all about how committed they are to wilson.  thus far douglas has been pretty good about cutting/trading players without too much concern about them being his draft picks.  i don't think wilson is a given for next season.

It’s not concern over paying White. It’s about paying White and yet another starter. 

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6 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Neither white nor wilson are going anywhere.  They will battle it out for qb1 next year.

That would be a BAD decision.

At this point, I would rather cut Wilson, sign White to an incentive lad contract, and bring in a TRUE competitive veteran.  

 

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5 hours ago, PepPep said:

Yes this is true. But I think Wilson is the type of QB they want and he would be fine if he 1. didn't make boneheaded plays/throws. 2. Made more accurate passes- (footwork/basics) 3. processed better/quicker. Mike White cannot do a lot of things Zach can but he is so much better at these basic requirements of the QB position that the Jets would much rather have him running the offense. 

An effective run game helps any and every QB in any and every offense. 

He is better at the basic requirements of an offensive scheme that does not fit Zach and the coaching staff stubbornly refuses to adapt.

Do you know why our defense is so good? Because Saleh and Ulbrich adjusted the secondary to complement the skills of Reed and Sauce.

There was a video I saw of Sean P and Brees and Sean basically just removing entire sections of the offense that Brees did not like.

Zach is not strong at option route crossers. Yet what does LaFleur call over and over? Any QB will struggle in 3rd and long. So what does LaFleur do? Continuously put (both QBs actually) in 3rd and long.

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Why would it make sense for the Jets to not pay Mike White and another team to ay him?   The Jets have an otherwise solid roster and Mike White knows the system.  If anything, the Jets should be the highest bidder for his services. 

But the only way the Jets can keep White against his will is to Franchise him...,.,Transition tag him.  The latter may be the call.  

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