This is my problem with LaFleur .. check this out

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

"The Lions had at least 7 defenders in the box on 81.8% of the Jets' rushing attempts (18 of 22), significantly higher than the league average of 59.0%."   (jetsxfactor.com).

So what does MLF do? 

1. He runs on almost every first down  

2. Doesn't let the QB audible

3. No attempt to replace the run with short passing game

4. Consistently puts the offense and Wilson in third & longs

 

The guy has become extremely predictable and while he thinks he is helping Wilson by running on first down, he is taking away an extra passing play to convert a first down when run after run gets stopped for almost no gain.  Third and long is not a rookie quarterback's best friend, not behind this offensive line.  

Football should not be this hard, but sometimes overthinking does that.

Instead of run to set up the pass, the Jets should pass to set up the run.  Your script isn't working Mike.    

[Dcat]

4 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

"The Lions had at least 7 defenders in the box on 81.8% of the Jets' rushing attempts (18 of 22), significantly higher than the league average of 59.0%."   (jetsxfactor.com).

So what does MLF do? 

1. He runs on almost every first down  

2. Doesn't let the QB audible

3. No attempt to replace the run with short passing game

4. Consistently puts the offense and Wilson in third & longs

 

The guy has become extremely predictable and while he thinks he is helping Wilson by running on first down, he is taking away an extra passing play to convert a first down when run after run gets stopped for almost no gain.  Third and long is not a rookie quarterback's best friend, not behind this offensive line.  

Football should not be this hard, but sometimes overthinking does that.

Instead of run to set up the pass, the Jets should pass to set up the run.  Your script isn't working Mike.    

Shades of Schottenheimer right there.  I eased up in MLF when he admitted to struggling last year and showed some real improvement.  Like you, I am NOT happy with what I've seen the last couple weeks from him.  He's terrified of Zach turning ballover and the other team knows it.

[DireJet]

QB can’t hit short and intermediate passes consistently. Only so much an OC can do when the QB lacks the fundies.

https://jetsxfactor.com/2022/12/20/ny-jets-zach-wilson-grade-detroit-lions/

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

1 minute ago, DireJet said:

QB can’t consistently hit short and intermediate passes consistently. Only so much an OC can do when the QB lacks the fundies.

https://jetsxfactor.com/2022/12/20/ny-jets-zach-wilson-grade-detroit-lions/

Fair but he can do so 50% of the time.  Do you know that we didn't gain 1 yard before contact against the run vs. the mediocre Lions defense?  Not ONE...  Almost impossible and that's partly because of our OL and partly because of stacking the box.  

[Nixhead]

Saleh and the Jets have adopted the mantra that most games are lost in the NFL not won. So they play conservative waiting for the other team to make the big mistake - how’d that work out the past 3 weeks?

 

Lafluer’s play calling has been predictable and horrible. Hes lost his imagination and 1/2 of the plays are doomed from the start. Come up with something different please!

[DireJet]

8 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Shades of Schottenheimer right there.  I eased up in MLF when he admitted to struggling last year and showed some real improvement.  Like you, I am NOT happy with what I've seen the last couple weeks from him.  He's terrified of Zach turning ballover and the other team knows it.

He’s had to work with too many QBs this year. No question. He moves the ball in rhythm w/MW. ZW misses too many need-to-have passes to get into a rhythm. It’s far too chaotic. Hard for the OC to carry out his game plan when the QB is so unpredictable. 

[frankiepapa]

Saleh and the Jets have adopted the mantra that most games are lost in the NFL not won. So they play conservative waiting for the other team to make the big mistake - how’d that work out the past 3 weeks?
 
Lafluer’s play calling has been predictable and horrible. Hes lost his imagination and 1/2 of the plays are doomed from the start. Come up with something different please!

A trick play here and there won't hurt

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[Paradis]

Jets OC job posting--

 

[DireJet]

I’m on the record saying ZW/MLF is a pointless combo at this stage of ZW’s career. I think it’s why a lot of fans get so angry w/Zach & want Mike. Offense under Zach is beyond frustrating to watch while it flows smoothly with MW. It’s really not rocket science. 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

4 minutes ago, DireJet said:

QB can’t hit short and intermediate passes consistently. Only so much an OC can do when the QB lacks the fundies.

https://jetsxfactor.com/2022/12/20/ny-jets-zach-wilson-grade-detroit-lions/

Also, not geared toward you but enough with the fundamentals.  You can hit some of the passes he missed, and missed by a lot.  How good are your fundamentals?  The problem is between his ears.  He started the game in a tough spot, then looked good .. building confidence, then threw a horrible pick, then was so flustered he couldn't hit the world's largest man on open routs (let alone Wilson or Berrios) and proceeded to throw missile after missile before building some confidence again.

It's MLF's job to build confidence with some easy throws or rolling him out if he is more comfortable with that.  Throwing on first down instead of third.  

[DireJet]

No offense taken but it is on the QB when he misses throws and the intended receivers are open. That’s not on MLF. His play worked. QB didn’t execute.

I’d be interested in the YAC numbers yesterday. I bet they were minuscule compared to when MW starts. YAC, a result of timing and superior ball placement, is the bread and butter of MLF offense. It also happens to be what MW does extremely well. I’m repeating myself a lot between threads but this stuff is pretty obvious to even a casual fan. 

[Wit]

Dude, this is Zachs fault. Stack the box because Zach cant pass anything not under 40 yards. MLF still has to try and run the ball. 

[RESNewYork]

Wilson definitely had two plays called and check with me which play at the line mutilate times during the game 

[JohnnyLV]

3 minutes ago, DireJet said:

He’s had to work with too many QBs this year. No question. He moves the ball in rhythm w/MW. ZW misses too many need-to-have passes to get into a rhythm. It’s far too chaotic. Hard for the OC to carry out his game plan when the QB is so unpredictable. 

Again. This is not true. People joke about LaFleur needs to call the "good" plays for Zach. Well its actually true. If you have a QB that struggles with throwing crossers but is quite excellent at outs, seams, posts and sideline back shoulder passes why continue to dial up crossers over and over and over? The reason is that LaFleur is too stubborn/rigid to adapt for Zach.  Zach as not been good, but outside of the NE game when LaFleur has been FORCED to throw the ball down the field Zach suddenly comes alive.

Flacco was TERRIBLE early in his career at dump offs and screens. He throw a pick 6 often when he tried. So what does Baltimore do? They adopt a completely vertical offensive attack and throw the ball down the field all the time. They won a SB

Same team -they draft Lamar and completely tailor the offense to what he can do.

Even Brady. Brady won Super Bowls just running like 12 different plays but plays that fit him and that they executed. For most of his tenure Brady had so few plays that they ran that most of them were a single word.

LaFleur is why Zach sucks. Period.

[Embrace the Suck]

10 minutes ago, DireJet said:

He’s had to work with too many QBs this year. No question. He moves the ball in rhythm w/MW. ZW misses too many need-to-have passes to get into a rhythm. It’s far too chaotic. Hard for the OC to carry out his game plan when the QB is so unpredictable. 

Maybe the OC should earn his keep, and adapt his game plan. Holly sh*t what a concept... Working with what you have. Analyze what is working and not working. Guess which one you should roll with. See MLF below:

[56mehl56]

3 minutes ago, DireJet said:

I’m on the record saying ZW/MLF is a pointless combo at this stage of ZW’s career. I think it’s why a lot of fans get so angry w/Zach & want Mike. Offense under Zach is beyond frustrating to watch while it flows smoothly with MW. It’s really not rocket science. 

Was it smooth in the 1st half of Buffalo ( 0 pts 5 punts) or Minnesota (6 pts - 2 fgs) . If so what's your definition of smooth ( not ZW ? ) 

[DireJet]

10 minutes ago, Nixhead said:

Saleh and the Jets have adopted the mantra that most games are lost in the NFL not won. So they play conservative waiting for the other team to make the big mistake - how’d that work out the past 3 weeks?

 

Lafluer’s play calling has been predictable and horrible. Hes lost his imagination and 1/2 of the plays are doomed from the start. Come up with something different please!

He moved the ball extremely well vs the Vikings & Bills between the 20s w/MW but didn’t finish off enough in the RZ. I believe we out-gained both those teams considerably. 

[DireJet]

4 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Again. This is not true. People joke about LaFleur needs to call the "good" plays for Zach. Well its actually true. If you have a QB that struggles with throwing crossers but is quite excellent at outs, seams, posts and sideline back shoulder passes why continue to dial up crossers over and over and over? The reason is that LaFleur is too stubborn/rigid to adapt for Zach.  Zach as not been good, but outside of the NE game when LaFleur has been FORCED to throw the ball down the field Zach suddenly comes alive.

Flacco was TERRIBLE early in his career at dump offs and screens. He throw a pick 6 often when he tried. So what does Baltimore do? They adopt a completely vertical offensive attack and throw the ball down the field all the time. They won a SB

Same team -they draft Lamar and completely tailor the offense to what he can do.

Even Brady. Brady won Super Bowls just running like 12 different plays but plays that fit him and that they executed. For most of his tenure Brady had so few plays that they ran that most of them were a single word.

LaFleur is why Zach sucks. Period.

Why do other QBs move the ball and score under LaFleur? 

[DireJet]

2 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Was it smooth in the 1st half of Buffalo ( 0 pts 5 punts) or Minnesota (6 pts - 2 fgs) . If so what's your definition of smooth ( not ZW ? ) 

Not in the RZ. Still didn’t look like the tire fire it did vs Detroit w/the football gods answering prayers on 50/50 balls. That sure as hell ain’t sustainable. 

[DireJet]

6 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

Maybe the OC should earn his keep, and adapt his game plan. Holly sh*t what a concept... Working with what you have. Analyze what is working and not working. Guess which one you should roll with. See MLF below:

He should but he won’t. That’s why we need Mike White. Duh!

[DireJet]

You guys are gonna get rid of LaFleur. Don’t worry. The gears are already in motion. You saw it on MNF last night. We’ll get someone new and then it’s put up or shut up for ZW in 23. No more excuses. 

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, DireJet said:

Not in the RZ. Still didn’t look like the tire fire it did vs Detroit w/the football gods answering prayers on 50/50 balls. That sure as hell ain’t sustainable. 

C'mon you talk about being realistic about Zach , you can't look at the 1st first half of both the Vikes and Bills games and tell me the offense ran smoothly. In both games MW did most of his better work in the 2nd half .  

[JohnnyLV]

4 minutes ago, DireJet said:

Why do other QBs move the ball and score under LaFleur? 

Seriously? White scored 12 against Buffalo and 22 against the worst pass defense in the NFL. Oh and by the way do you think it is coincidental that White's big performances were his first games? There was no tape of White so the opposing team had some but not a solid idea of how we would play. Then you see diminishing results as teams learn to defend against White. You can't just generalize off of his 2 good games just like Zach should not be judged solely by the NE games.

[DireJet]

1 minute ago, 56mehl56 said:

C'mon you talk about being realistic about Zach , you can't look at the 1st first half of both the Vikes and Bills games and tell me the offense ran smoothly. In both games MW did most of his better work in the 2nd half .  

I’d have to watch back more closely. He did awaken in 2nd half and start calling a better game, though. I do remember that. I had a huge thread about this same topic yesterday. MLF is a goner. Someone has to fall on the axe. 

[JohnnyLV]

2 minutes ago, DireJet said:

You guys are gonna get rid of LaFleur. Don’t worry. The gears are already in motion. You saw it on MNF last night. We’ll get someone new and then it’s put up or shut up for ZW in 23. No more excuses. 

I truly hope so. LaFleur is terrible. We need a new OC and a new QB coach, and someone that has experience developing a young QB. Reich might need to be an OC for a couple years.

[DireJet]

1 minute ago, johnnysd said:

I truly hope so. LaFleur is terrible. We need a new OC and a new QB coach, and someone that has experience developing a young QB. Reich might need to be an OC for a couple years.

Yup. And if ZW can’t put it together then, he’s toast. I have my doubts w/him but am willing to give him one more shot w/a new offensive staff. 

[Greensleeves]

25 minutes ago, DireJet said:

He’s had to work with too many QBs this year. No question. He moves the ball in rhythm w/MW. ZW misses too many need-to-have passes to get into a rhythm. It’s far too chaotic. Hard for the OC to carry out his game plan when the QB is so unpredictable. 

He's not really unpredictable. He is much more accurate on passes outside the hash and seemingly further downfield. Maybe try some on first down. The out to Berrios before they scored, rollouts, a few designed runs, etc. For MW keep the stuff in the middle and shorter. Let's remember who is playing QB. Zach is like a shot maker in tennis. He will miss two or three shots but will then hit a couple aces and a couple of winners to hold serve. Zach can score fast if you let him be himself. He's dynamic when he throws the ball downfield. 

[Beerfish]

He or Saleh or both do not trust Wilson, moreso Saleh imo, the game plan has rex ryan all over it

The first Pats game the pats did the same thing stack everything and make him throw, which he did 41 times, 355 yards, 2 tds but 3 ints that cost the team the game.

In some of our earlier wins the jets did the same thing but they had Breece hall and the all world defense was holding up its end of the bargain.

Now special teams and the defense is totally failing and it looks bad for the offense.

[DireJet]

1 minute ago, Greensleeves said:

He's not really unpredictable. He is much more accurate on passes outside the hash and seemingly further downfield. Maybe try some on first down. The out to Berrios before they scored, rollouts, a few designed runs, etc. For MW keep the stuff in the middle and shorter. Let's remember who is playing QB. Zach is like a shot maker in tennis. He will miss two or three shots but will then hit a couple aces and a couple of winners to hold serve. Zach can score fast if you let him be himself. He's dynamic when he throws the ball downfield. 

Unpredictable within the framework of a MLF offense. But yes MLF needs to adjust or we’re wasting our time these next 3 games. 

[K_O_Brien]

6 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Seriously? White scored 12 against Buffalo and 22 against the worst pass defense in the NFL. 

Add in the 9 points Flacco managed against Baltimore (garbage time TD included) and 12 against Cincinnati. That's 4 of the 6 non-Wilson games under LeFleur. 

[peekskill68]

36 minutes ago, Nixhead said:

Saleh and the Jets have adopted the mantra that most games are lost in the NFL not won. So they play conservative waiting for the other team to make the big mistake - how’d that work out the past 3 weeks?

 

Lafluer’s play calling has been predictable and horrible. Hes lost his imagination and 1/2 of the plays are doomed from the start. Come up with something different please!

I tend to agree.  The razzle dazzle stuff sometimes is over the top when White is in there, but he definitely goes very predictable with Zach.  Zach and his ad lib style + running ability is probably a better fit than White on some of these "more creative" Lafleur calls...

[Larz]

But what if berrios is running circles around Zach before the snap ?

[carlito1171]

1 hour ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

"The Lions had at least 7 defenders in the box on 81.8% of the Jets' rushing attempts (18 of 22), significantly higher than the league average of 59.0%."   (jetsxfactor.com).

So what does MLF do? 

1. He runs on almost every first down  

2. Doesn't let the QB audible

3. No attempt to replace the run with short passing game

4. Consistently puts the offense and Wilson in third & longs

 

The guy has become extremely predictable and while he thinks he is helping Wilson by running on first down, he is taking away an extra passing play to convert a first down when run after run gets stopped for almost no gain.  Third and long is not a rookie quarterback's best friend, not behind this offensive line.  

Football should not be this hard, but sometimes overthinking does that.

Instead of run to set up the pass, the Jets should pass to set up the run.  Your script isn't working Mike.    

There's rarely any adjustment from him...ever...and he doesn't stick with what's working

I've noticed a few things in the Detroit game. 

1st two drives sucked as he tried to run and it was predictable. Detroit was selling out to take it away and make Zach a thrower. 

Next series, Lafleur finally calls a shot play and Zach initiates the play fake, rolls out, and throws a beautiful bomb to the other side of the field to Uzomah, TD! 

Next series he does a great job of mixing in intermediate throws with jet sweeps, RPO, and outside zone, but we fall short of punching it in.  We don't see another shot play the rest of the game even though it worked once. No more RPO either. 

To start the 2nd half, Zach throws a flutter ball INT, which was idiotic on his part, but even more idiotic, is putting the offense in a predictable sequence of outside zone on 1st down, incomplete pass on 2nd, leading into 3rd and long where Detroit pinned their ears back. 

He finally loosened up the offense in the 4th, when he had no other choice, and guess what, Zach finds GW down the sidelines for a huge play and they're able to punch it in for the go ahead score. 

He has no feel for breaking tendencies as a playcaller, is willing to call a game in a predictable loop for quarters at a time(the same predictable loop that resulted in 0 RZ TDs with Mike White under center), and only mixes it up when things are going well, not to give the offense a spark in the 1st place.

[carlito1171]

34 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Seriously? White scored 12 against Buffalo and 22 against the worst pass defense in the NFL. Oh and by the way do you think it is coincidental that White's big performances were his first games? There was no tape of White so the opposing team had some but not a solid idea of how we would play. Then you see diminishing results as teams learn to defend against White. You can't just generalize off of his 2 good games just like Zach should not be judged solely by the NE games.

IDK where people get this fantasy that the offense is this much night and day with other QBs like we didn't go 1/7 in the redzone against one of the worse defenses in the league in Minnesota....

The bears game was just that....one game. 

[IndianaJet]

1 hour ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

"The Lions had at least 7 defenders in the box on 81.8% of the Jets' rushing attempts (18 of 22), significantly higher than the league average of 59.0%."   (jetsxfactor.com).

So what does MLF do? 

1. He runs on almost every first down  

 

Not including the drive before the half and the final drive of the game, (which was all passing due to the situation) the Jets had 20 first down plays vs. the Lions. 

Pass attempts:  9

Rush attempts: 11