QB School - The Zach Wilson Experiment is Nearing Its End

[undertow]

13 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

I think we need to keep trying though, Crush. I realize the odds are stacked against ending up with someone on the Allen, Mahomes and Burrow level but the reward is too big too not try.

I just can’t get excited over the Jimmy G, Tannehill types. They seem like band aids. I’d be down with MW, Minshew and a kid we take in the 1st or 2nd round next year, as long as that kid rode the bench all year and learned.

The biggest problem I have with the vet QB route is the amount of years you are investing...I would sign up for a year of Jimmy G or Carr but it's gonna take long term deals at 30-35 mil to get them to come here.

[DireJet]

Someone set up a tire hanging from a tree at that Idaho ranch and have him throw hundreds of balls through it everyday this summer. 

[hotrodcharlie]

17 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I'd be totally down for signing Geno. If he gets to FA it's because he wants to cash in. What do you think he'd command on the open market being the best available FA QB? 

 

Idk its an interesting question. I dont think he's going to get long term money. Teams will want to see a repeat performance before they do that. Maybe something like 2 years 30 Mil gets it done?

[football guy]

6 minutes ago, Paradis said:

In summary: Sports. 

Long diatribe, but what are you saying about the current situation. 

This does not happen with other organizations nearly as frequently or as loudly as it does here RE: quarterback 

[bitonti]

2 hours ago, Copernicus said:

 For all intent purposes Joe Douglas seems like a competant GM and that is putting it mildly. Super successful picks that look to be future stars.  Could he have really missed this badly wih Zach?

this video is how zach gets everyone fired

that's how bad of a miss zach at 2 was it could bring down the whole regime 

 

[Dunnie]

1 hour ago, DireJet said:

Mike White has another Bears-esque performance vs. that joke of a Lions secondary. He’s halfway to the Ring of Honor at that point. ?

I so wish White was available for tonight's game in the weather we are expecting.

[Green Ghost]

15 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

I know you’re right. Getting a Jimmy G or Tannehill type on a cheap rookie deal while we pay everyone else is more likely. It very well could work when Breece gets to 100%, AVT comes back and by some act of grace Becton takes his place on the line and stays healthy and trim-ish. 

You know what’s funny (not funny) about your post? You just named 2 potentially  pro bowl tackles and a All Pro type RB. All under 25. Add GW, Moore and a big WR, and that’s one hell of a core going forward.

After seeing that, maybe YOU were right with your original take. Who the hell knows what the best way to fix this is. The one thing I do feel strongly about is this isn’t the time to throw some raw kid out there and give up a year or two in order to groom a FQB.

[DireJet]

2 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

I so wish White was available for tonight's game in the weather we are expecting.

Only in our hearts and Amazon Prime’s likely 10+ cutaways of him on the sideline getting his broken ribs soaked for no good reason. 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

How long does 1JD wait for Wilson to "develop"?

Give him the next 2 years plus the 5th year option?

[DoubleDecker]

Watching this tape is extremely frustrating and I think he's broken.  It's just not there man..... Idk if White is the answer, but it's looking more and more that Zach is far from the solution. Just cut your losses at this point....

[Green Ghost]

18 minutes ago, undertow said:

The biggest problem I have with the vet QB route is the amount of years you are investing...I would sign up for a year of Jimmy G or Carr but it's gonna take long term deals at 30-35 mil to get them to come here.

That’s a good point. 
My main objection would have been I don’t they’re worth the cost, but yeah. I didn’t even consider what you said about the years.

[Green Ghost]

4 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

How long does 1JD wait for Wilson to "develop"?

Give him the next 2 years plus the 5th year option?

We can talk until we’re blue in the face, but none of us know what they’re thinking.
To be honest I wouldn’t be shocked if they brought Zach back, dumped him for MW, or went in a totally different direction from both.
When you think about it, you could make a valid argument for all three options.

[Warfish]

22 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

No.

I didn't think so, honestly.

[Green Ghost]

10 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

I so wish White was available for tonight's game in the weather we are expecting.

Yes. He’s proven he can play in bad weather.
I know what you’re thinking… Zach and wind don’t mix. Amirite? ?

[peebag]

27 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It's easier now than it was in the pre-slot era.

All it takes is a GM/Head Coach with balls.

...and a decent enough guy to start that first year to keep the chants to a minimum.  They'll still chant, of course.

What qb are you targeting?

[Warfish]

18 minutes ago, undertow said:

I'm not advocating for drafting a QB in the first round but 11 of the past 16 QBs drafted in the top 5 have been busts so maybe drafting one in the 10-20 range isn't the worst idea in the world.

So more Hackenberg, Geno, Petty, less so Sanchez, Darnold, Wilson?

[BroadwayRay]

12 minutes ago, bitonti said:

this video is how zach gets everyone fired

that's how bad of a miss zach at 2 was it could bring down the whole regime 

 

Nobody is getting fired because of Zach Wilson. He was a consensus top 5 pick with oodles of physical talent who turned out to be a bust. It happens.

[SickJetFan]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Who?

who has moved up in a draft using future year picks? are you serious?

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, peebag said:

What qb are you targeting?

In the 2023 draft?  No one as yet.

I don't follow college (or as I jokingly call it, minor league football).

I start doing my research when our season ends, usually.

So no idea at this point.  I know there are several 1st round possible guys, no idea about who is there deeper (or if they even exist).

My main plan for 2023 is Minshew + White.  Best man starts.  Other backs him up.  At least that's how I feel at current.

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

So more Hackenberg, Geno, Petty, less so Sanchez, Darnold, Wilson?

Geno and Hack were both picked in the 2nd round and Petty was picked in the 4th round. 

[undertow]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So more Hackenberg, Geno, Petty, less so Sanchez, Darnold, Wilson?

Probably. lol  All I'm saying is draft order is highly overrated you don't need to invest all your draft capital to trade into the top 5 or 10.

[Sammybighead]

4 hours ago, VJphillyfan said:

Resign White and draft a qb in 1st or 2nd round

I didn't totally rule this out but i'd say likelihood is extremely low. They'd be carrying 3 QB on the roster, 1 of which is an oft-injured journeyman, they other 2 are developmental projects. Doesn't seem like a sound strategy for a team looking to compete now.

[GandWFan]

2 hours ago, Copernicus said:

I find the whole Zach Wilson demise (or not) fascinating.  Enough evidence to claim he sucks and get rid of him, enough evidence to claim his ability to make throws and plays that others cant is worth developing. How did this happened? For all intent purposes Joe Douglas seems like a competant GM and that is putting it mildly. Super successful picks that look to be future stars.  Could he have really missed this badly wih Zach? Zach showed zero evidence (from what I know) in college of not being able to be a simple pocket passer who could make the easy throws. His numbers in college prove it. So what gives? Are videos like this just "the next negaive thing about the Jets because they know they'll get the cliches from fans or is it not growing pains and he is just terrible with no hope.

I go back and forth with this dilema with every article or video I watch. 

Zach had no pass rush pressure in college.  He looked like superman because no one got within 10 yards of him.  In the pros, he panics with pressure.  Even perceived pressure freaks him out.  Guess what?  That in not going away.  If you can't stand and deliver downfield in the face of a rush, you can't play QB in the pros.  Period.  Doesn't matter how much "arm talent" you have.  If you brain short circuits at the first sign of pressure, no bueno.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Wilson probably needs to be coached harder.

Like when Daboll dropped F-bombs on Daniel Jones on the sideline in full view of the cameras after his early season red zone INT.

Might have seemed harsh at the time, but it worked. Jones has a ridiculously low 1.0% INT rate on the season.

You never see this from Saleh.  He never challenges his players, never gets angry at them.

Maybe Saleh and LaFleur are raining bullets on Wilson in the film room or practice bubble.  Doubt it but who knows.  Publicly, they continually praise him, even during the "reset" announcement.

 

[Wit]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

We have a QB problem, and its not limited to the draft. Chad Pennington, Brett Favre, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Josh McCown situations deserve attention, as do the reactions to guys like Matt Simms, Tim Tebow, Greg McElroy, and Chris Streveler phenomenon's. The second the fans/media get feisty and turn on a player (or fall in love with the unlikely hero), the organization has caved. Most fanbases around the league are much like ours- infatuated with the backup QB and impatient with the starter- but the difference is that we are louder and more extreme, and those organizations stick the course better than we do. 

The team underperforms and Chad Pennington isn't great in 2007? They bench him for Kellen Clemens while ignoring all the glaring reasons for that subpar season. The following year he leaves and goes on to have a career year in Miami. They replace him with Favre, and the second things started falling apart the organization did very little to "protect" him from the media and manage expectations... he grows distasteful of his experience, leaves, goes on to have a career year in Minnesota. We draft Sanchez, lose patience with him (Peyton Manning/Tim Tebow fiasco), bench him for a nobody, then draft Geno. Geno forced into a starting role year 1 despite everyone knowing he was a project, goes 8-8 and heightens expectations for year 2. Geno improves but the team is predictably bad in year 2 (mind you... still a developing player) yet gets benched for Michael Vick. Comes back year 3 and there is no culture/control in the locker room, gets in a fight, breaks his jaw, loses his job to Fitzpatrick. Fitzpatrick plays well, fans love him, he falls back to earth, fans hate him again, they bench and move on for him. Replaced with Josh McCown who has a good year statistically but the team sucks, they draft Darnold, and mid-year everyone calls for him to be benched for McCown... I vividly remember the Michael Kay show claiming that the Jets were purposefully making McCown play bad because they didn't want to create a controversy when Darnold was healthy enough to return... The same occurs for Darnold in year 3 with Flacco, just as the same has happened with Zach and White/Flacco. It's constant chaos. 

It takes a special kind of person to eliminate the noise around this franchise, and I think the Jets have also done a piss poor job of managing it as well. You look at the Giants... Eli Manning got killed for 4 years and the organization stuck by him, supported him, and ignored the noise. They have given the Jets the blueprint of how to develop a QB in this market, yet we fail at doing it every single time. 

I love you insight, but look around the league. Josh Rosen, Baker Mayfield, Minshew, Trubisky, Mariota, Winston, Haskins, goff, lock, bortles, manziel, bridgewater, etc etc etc all these guys are part of a list of QB's who were terrible , some even had good seasons, and were abandoned. None of those teams have been burned yet.  Thats the way thins works. Its unfair to blame the regime, other than the fact that they over drafted Zach for his mahomes like throw at his pro day, and his teenie bopping schedule in college. 

[bitonti]

7 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

Nobody is getting fired because of Zach Wilson. He was a consensus top 5 pick with oodles of physical talent who turned out to be a bust. It happens.

he doesn't have oodles of physical talent. He's small, slight, injury prone by NFL standards. He didn't run, jump or bench press. 

He's got an arm. but that's not enough. He's like a kicker with a big leg and no technique. 

this was the highest pick the Jets have had for 30 years when you miss at 2 it takes everyone down with them 

unless Mike White turns out to be Kurt Warner, Joe Douglas is screwed. All the Sauce picks in the world can't bail you out from a miss at 2 overall 

[BroadwayRay]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

he doesn't have oodles of physical talent. He's small, slight, injury prone by NFL standards. He didn't run, jump or bench press. 

He's got an arm. but that's not enough. He's like a kicker with a big leg and no technique. 

this was the highest pick the Jets have had for 30 years when you miss at 2 it takes everyone down with them 

unless Mike White turns out to be Kurt Warner, Joe Douglas is screwed. All the Sauce picks in the world can't bail you out from a miss at 2 overall 

Well, if you were the Jets owner, I'm sure that would be what happens. But in the real world Joe Douglas is a contender for general manager of the year because of his 2022 draft. He ain't gonna be fired.

[Integrity28]

2 hours ago, JiFields said:

Watching J.T. break down the INT basically laughing at the decision and the laziness of the throw and knowing @FidelioJet left the site for thinking that the throw was perfect, made me chuckle. 

Yeah, not to pile on, but to pile on, she is consistently the first person to latch onto the crazy, opposite of reality take. 

[Paradis]

Just now, football guy said:

This does not happen with other organizations nearly as frequently or as loudly as it does here RE: quarterback 

Is it though? Without a proven HC like Tomlin, every year that you don't have a FQB - there's going to be drama. That's any team. We just "live" through it and place a bigger emphasis on our own. There's probably stretches of time DET where Goff was sandbagged, Murray chastized in ARZ, constant bickering over Daniel Jones amongst Giants fans.. etc. Its all the same sh*t.

 

[slats]

11 minutes ago, bitonti said:

unless Mike White turns out to be Kurt Warner, Joe Douglas is screwed. All the Sauce picks in the world can't bail you out from a miss at 2 overall 

This is laughable. Joe Douglas is not going anywhere, nor should he. You and @kevinc855 should just fantasize about this in thrilling, fan fiction pms. 

[RevisIsland610]

28 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

How long does 1JD wait for Wilson to "develop"?

Give him the next 2 years plus the 5th year option?

They already know ZW isn't the guy. The only reason he is the starter is because MW is hurt and Flacco sucks even worse. He almost certainly will not be the starter next year. I think they have seen enough. 

[THE BARON]

50 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Is there a QB projected in the late 1st or the 2nd round that is worthy of development (behind a White/Minshew type for at least a year) that would be worth picking?

 

Yes.  Got my eye on Tanner McKee as the guy for the Jets. 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/tanner-mckee-qb-stanford-nfl-draft-scouting-report-2023/

 

 

[Larz]

“ A crazy cocktail “.  That’s a perfect way to put it unfortunately 

[kevinc855]

1 minute ago, slats said:

This is laughable. Joe Douglas is not going anywhere, nor should he. You and @kevinc855 should just fantasize about this in thrilling, fan fiction pms. 

I agree with you slats. He is not going to be fired this season due to his hits in the 22 draft. With that said, a huge swing and miss with Becton and Wilson are very very big dings on his resume. Here's the challenge, JD is going to have to eventually get the QB position right, or not only is this team not winning Super Bowls, they are this current team, a 9-8 8-9 team barely making or missing the playoffs. Not good enough. He needs to get QB right......can't overlook this blindspot he has. 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

he doesn't have oodles of physical talent. He's small, slight, injury prone by NFL standards. He didn't run, jump or bench press. 

He's got an arm. but that's not enough. He's like a kicker with a big leg and no technique. 

this was the highest pick the Jets have had for 30 years when you miss at 2 it takes everyone down with them 

unless Mike White turns out to be Kurt Warner, Joe Douglas is screwed. All the Sauce picks in the world can't bail you out from a miss at 2 overall 

It will cost Douglas his job only if he rolls with Wilson til the bitter end and it turns out how most of us expect.

If he cuts bait and works a Darnold-esque Jamal-esque trade, I think he'll be hailed as a conquering hero.

It's weird.  Nobody made excuses for Jamarcus Russell when he flat-out sucked as a #1 overall pick.  And Jamarcus was more physically gifted than Wilson.  One of the most impressive pro days in NFL history.