QB School - The Zach Wilson Experiment is Nearing Its End

[THE BARON]

18 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

You mean the kid from Stanford ?  Accurate and has touch ..but how is his arm srtrength ?

Great arm strength.  Good measurables in general.  6' 6".  He would be perfect to run LeFleur's offense.  He is great with timing and ball placement in intermediate stuff.  Fast delivery as well.  He's "my guy" as far as solving the QB issue.  That with the stipulation that the Jets have a solid guy to run the team for a season if McKee needs time for the game to "slow down". 

[varjet]

People in Carolina got fired for agreeing to give a second round pick+ for Sam Darnold.  People in Seattle should have been fired for the Jamal Adams (and Sheldon Richardson) trades.  

I don't think JD ever thought that this season would have gone well enough to have a Plan B for Zach Wilson-it was develop Wilson and see how it goes.   It is a high class problem.

We actually saw Saleh and JD fix the defense in a year, mostly.  They were terrible last year.  This year they were pretty good.

The one thing we should have learned here is that you can't develop a young QB without a dominant OL.   The number one challenge for JD, again, is to fix the OL. Those are the first calls I would be making before calling the QBs.  

Given the other things that have to get fixed, I would be looking for the best QB we can get for around $10mm/year.  No more.  Geno, Brady, Jimmy G all will get much more than that, but I don't think those are the fits here.

Then I am BPAing the draft, with a potential QB getting a 10 spot uplift-so if we are picking at 15, and a QB is on the board rated 24, pick the QB.  

I think we are delusional to think that this team is going to take the next step next year-there is now a new 2 year plan.  It ain't with Zach Wilson, and OL has been mismanaged and will cost at least $30mm of cap space.  OTC shows the Jets at $16.2mm of space, with $4.2mm carryforward for this year.  So say that is $20mm.  We have draft picks to sign, a veteran QB to sign, and at least 2 OL (C, T).   We need another WR-why are we running the SF offense with WRs half the size of the SF WRs? 

Woody/JD need to take a deep breath and now plan for 2024.  Find another QB in the draft to develop, and keep trying to develop ZW.  I am actually confident that the Wilsons are going to see the $ spinning down the drain and are going to do something to turn this around.     

[T0mShane]

20 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

The top selling point with McKee from a physical standpoint, however, is undoubtedly his arm talent. The Stanford QB has excellent natural arm strength. He can generate easy velocity and push the ball outside the numbers and past tight coverage with his whip-like release. When he has time to fully load and release, he carries excellent velocity and can dish to the opposite hash without delay.

Some taller QBs have strong arms that aren’t particularly elastic, but McKee checks both categories of arm talent. He has great arm elasticity and can adjust his throwing angles while maintaining velocity.

He’s able to throw with high-end velocity off obtuse and sidearm releases, and he’s proven he has the elasticity to layer the ball into tight windows. He can also throw on the move, generating velocity and keeping his shoulders level while doing so.

 

...im intrigued

They aren’t dumping a wealthy Mormon from an exclusive elitist school to bring in another wealthy Mormon from an exclusive elitist school. 

[football guy]

47 minutes ago, Wit said:

I love you insight, but look around the league. Josh Rosen, Baker Mayfield, Minshew, Trubisky, Mariota, Winston, Haskins, goff, lock, bortles, manziel, bridgewater, etc etc etc all these guys are part of a list of QB's who were terrible , some even had good seasons, and were abandoned. None of those teams have been burned yet.  Thats the way thins works. Its unfair to blame the regime, other than the fact that they over drafted Zach for his mahomes like throw at his pro day, and his teenie bopping schedule in college. 

Yes but again, the teams went above and beyond to support those players until the true point of no return. It’s apparent not just by their messaging, but their actions and decision-making process. All those teams had what in common? The coaching staff who drafted those QBs were l fired before the QB was… drafting a franchise QB is an organizational thing, and if you don’t have a plan or process to develop the QB then you’re going to fail at it every time. 

Don’t get me wrong, there are certainly times where a player just ain’t it (see Quinn, Hackenberg) or it reaches a point of no return off the field (see Russell, Mayfield). Still, teams historically don’t let these situations get out of hand the way the Jets do. 

[bitonti]

9 minutes ago, slats said:

This is a critical game if the Jets are hoping to make the playoffs, and Zach is the starting QB. I apologize for trying to be hopeful but if my only other choice is to just be a miserable bastard, I’ll stick with it. 
 
I have no illusions. Not like you, trying to pretend that the only good thing JD has done in his career as GM is draft Sauce Gardener. Sauce and JD signee Hardee are pro bowl starters; draft pick Garrett Wilson, free agent Reed, and the resigned Berrios are all alternates. Sauce and Wilson looking like DROY and OROY, and only because Breece got hurt. He needs to address the QB situation, but the current CBA makes highly drafted busts far less consequential. He’s on very solid footing and likely to be extended. 

Thanks for the honest reply- Please watch this JT Osullivan video. It's not rants and raves it's a former NFL QB looking at all-22 film. These are not hopes or opinions, the film is what it is. You kind of dodged the question from me and Jif all I can say is watch the youtube, please. It's not good news but it's real.  

the CBA does make drafting busts hurt less - but 2 overall is still super expensive. The draft capital is insane.  it's 2600 points that's like the 6 and the 16 pick put together. 

I don't know how Berrios made alternate tbh, those others are good picks/signings but it adds up to a mediocre product not a good one 

 

[Ron Rico]

4 minutes ago, JiFields said:

Oregon St.  but he didn’t play.  AR might be as accurate as Wilson, lol, but at least he’s the best athlete on the field every week.  That said, hard pass on AR.  Jets ain’t got time for that type of project even if he’s 100x more explosive than Wilson. 

 

Yeah, Miller was QB. I think he and Zach are the same age. LOL

[Paradis]

12 minutes ago, football guy said:

The difference between those examples and ours: those teams put an emphasis on backing the player and being steadfast in their support of the player in effort to squash any opportunities for the media/fan drama to find its way into the clubhouse. We historically have not done that

Well, again -- that's of function of not having a stable/long-term HC with history of winning AND still searching for a QB... it goes without saying those leashes are shorter and open to scrutiny. I don't think we've disproportionately hung QBs out to dry -- that's confirmation bias re: NY sports media playing into perception IMO

[Lith]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I'd be totally down for signing Geno. If he gets to FA it's because he wants to cash in. What do you think he'd command on the open market being the best available FA QB? 

 

Here is what Spotrac estimates his market value to be.  After one good season in a ten year career, I would be shocked if he gets this much, but what do I know.  The range of his comparables is crazy.

[Green Ghost]

8 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

So your saying the weather will help Zach ?? ????????

Here’s what I think. You’re one of the few Zach supporters left (I have no problem with that, you’re entitled to an opinion) and I think you’re dreading what you’ll see from Zach tonight. The last thing you want to have to defend is another lousy performance by him. (Btw… I thought Zach was a lot better Sunday than most here) Him looking bad would be another nail in his figurative coffin here, and you know that.

As far as the weather? No… It might help the Jets, though. It might slow the roll TL is on. No way Zach puts up as many points in good weather as Trevor would.

[Green Ghost]

9 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Sure it will 

You don’t think a young team with a Top 5 defense, a superstar WR in the making, and a young stud in the backfield is going to appeal to him?

You don’t think he would love to dick over Belichick and the Pats in the most epic way imaginable?

Brady is utterly obsessed with winning and further enhancing his legacy as the undisputed greatest football player to ever touch cleat to grass. What better way to go out than to win a Super Bowl with one of the most historically downtrodden franchises in professional sports?

Joe Douglas is about to enter Year 5 as GM of the Jets and has yet to get this team into the postseason. If you people think he’s staking his career on Gardner Minshew or Mike White getting us over the hump, then you’re kidding yourselves.

This team has pretty much everything in place to make a run except for a QB that can be counted upon.

If Douglas doesn’t swing for the fences come March, then he deserves what’s inevitably coming to him.

[JustInFudge]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

Again, I’m as about done with Zach as anyone but, at the same time, I also don’t believe the Jets did him any favors in their attempted development of him. Way back when, I was in favor of holding onto Darnold for another year and letting the rookie coaches get their program up and running. They opted for the high traits QB and then threw him into the lineup prematurely on a team that was, as a whole, still trying to figure out where they were supposed to be on any given play. All around, it was just bad. I can forgive, they came here as rookies in their roles, but they made a poor decision in bringing in such a QB, and did a poor job trying to get the most out of him. 

Man, I just adamantly disagree.  I’m not sure I’ve seen a team do more, specifically the Jets, to develop a QB.  
 

- high priced productive veteran offensive FA’s; Davis, Flacco, Tomlinson, Brown, the TE’s

- literally hired his personal coach onto the  staff last year 

- drafted OL in first round, drafted WR in first round, drafted RBs in back to back year in 2nd and 3rd round, drafted 2 freaky 2nd round WRs 

- created a very very easy one read elementary style system a coed flag Football QB could execute 

- put together arguably the best D in the league his second year

Im sorry but when you consider this and see how easy Lil Mikey is making this game for him, just could not disagree more on the development piece.  

[carlito1171]

Excellent breakdown.....

I would cut my losses with Zach, but I see the FO bringing him back for one final chance to earn the job in camp next year...

Also, IDK how anyone looks at this situation, and wants to draft YET ANOTHER 1st rd pick at QB right now....every prospect isn't Zach of course....but this team can go far with a Vet that doesn't need to be developed and can run the offense as asked. 

Like I said, I would end the Zach experiment and look to trade him....he has processing stuff that I think can't be coached out of him...but the more likely scenario is Signing MW or a Vet, bringing Zach back, and drafting a mid rounder....The issue becomes that it makes no sense for Zach to be a QB3 for an entire year when he flops in camp yet again and loses the competition....

[carlito1171]

1 minute ago, JiFields said:

Man, I just adamantly disagree.  I’m not sure I’ve seen a team do more, specifically the Jets, to develop a QB.  
 

- high priced productive veteran offensive FA’s; Davis, Flacco, Tomlinson, Brown, the TE’s

- literally hired his personal coach onto the  staff last year 

- drafted OL in first round, drafted WR in first round, drafted RBs in back to back year in 2nd and 3rd round, drafted 2 freaky 2nd round WRs 

- created a very very easy one read elementary style system a coed flag Football QB could execute 

- put together arguably the best D in the league his second year

Im sorry but when you consider this and see how easy Lil Mikey is making this game for him, just could not disagree more on the development piece.  

This regime did a ton of a lot more than the last one did for Darnold that's for sure....

Sometimes the guy is just a dud....won't be the 1st or last time that happens....

[bitonti]

44 minutes ago, Coquito said:

What QB's (besides the first round) you like in the 2023 draft? Hendon Hooker? Clayton Tune?

to answer this question more fully most of the guys I like have running ability and are like day 3 sleepers

Besides Richardson, who has his pluses and minuses, I like Cam Rising - Utah and Dorian Thompson Robinson - UCLA. I'm not sure these guys fit the Shanahan WCO they are trying to run. 

 Tanner McKee runs that WCO though

[Ron Rico]

6 minutes ago, varjet said:

 

I think we are delusional to think that this team is going to take the next step next year-there is now a new 2 year plan. 

I'm actually with you, on this. If the Jets get better next year, so does everybody else. I look at an organization like the Steelers--- players come, players go, but with a blip on the radar once in a while, they stay competitive. 

It's always sh*t teams that stay sh*t for ten year runs because they can't keep a coaching staff or GM in place. The QB position is a merry go round. 

You need a balance between long term and short term goals. They don't necessarily have to conflict. DON'T FORCE SOMETHING BECAUSE YOU THINK YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING. 

Sometimes you gotta fold your hand, and wait for a better deal.  

Let's build a team that is completive for years, and not get this myopic idea that next year is a go for broke year and we should gamble the future away. We should not be panicking, at all. 

 

[Chewy and the Jets]

We draft a very raw prospect, the QB coach we had hired to mentor is tragically killed a month later, and this kid hasn't developed a single iota since we gifted him the job and threw him into the deep end from day 1.   I mean he has no idea what he is seeing or doing out there.  So bad to the point where we can't even learn about his backup because the floor has been set so low.  What an absolute %^$# show.

Anybody taking issue with Lafleur can only focus on his teaching skills.  His scheme is good as we witness every time a QB not named Wilson gets behind center.  As for Wilson I am not sure the leap of epic proportions he will require to improve to even below average starting caliber is within his grasp but until he demonstrates significant improvement he is is backup at best.  Man it sucks being us.  

[peekskill68]

1 hour ago, kevinc855 said:

I agree with you slats. He is not going to be fired this season due to his hits in the 22 draft. With that said, a huge swing and miss with Becton and Wilson are very very big dings on his resume. Here's the challenge, JD is going to have to eventually get the QB position right, or not only is this team not winning Super Bowls, they are this current team, a 9-8 8-9 team barely making or missing the playoffs. Not good enough. He needs to get QB right......can't overlook this blindspot he has. 

I'm not sure I understand this comment.  He made a judgment on Darnold to trade him, which seems like a good decision.  Then he picked Wilson which so far has been a miss, but the logic was there to go with a cheap rookie while building the team vs. paying big $$ to a guy like Watson and blowing up several years worth of draft boards.  Not sure I see the "blindspot".  Lawrence was probably the guy but we didn't tank as well as Jax.  What was he supposed to do differently?  Fields?  Jones?  Lance?  

[Green Ghost]

25 minutes ago, JiFields said:

Man, I just adamantly disagree.  I’m not sure I’ve seen a team do more, specifically the Jets, to develop a QB.  
 

- high priced productive veteran offensive FA’s; Davis, Flacco, Tomlinson, Brown, the TE’s

- literally hired his personal coach onto the  staff last year 

- drafted OL in first round, drafted WR in first round, drafted RBs in back to back year in 2nd and 3rd round, drafted 2 freaky 2nd round WRs 

- created a very very easy one read elementary style system a coed flag Football QB could execute 

- put together arguably the best D in the league his second year

Im sorry but when you consider this and see how easy Lil Mikey is making this game for him, just could not disagree more on the development piece.  

Excellent post.

[peebag]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

In the 2023 draft?  No one as yet.

I don't follow college (or as I jokingly call it, minor league football).

I start doing my research when our season ends, usually.

So no idea at this point.  I know there are several 1st round possible guys, no idea about who is there deeper (or if they even exist).

My main plan for 2023 is Minshew + White.  Best man starts.  Other backs him up.  At least that's how I feel at current.

If the Jets go with Minshew in 2023, I think I'll just skip watching the Jets.

[Jetsfan80]

53 minutes ago, JiFields said:

Curious, did you actually watch the video?  No offense, but it doesn’t seem like you did because Im not sure you can make the game any easier while asking less of a QB than what Lil Mikey is doing for Zach. 

Apparently acknowledging that bad QB play is bad and unlikely to get much better makes us all "miserable bastards" in slats' world.  

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

3 minutes ago, peebag said:

If the Jets go with Minshew in 2023, I think I'll just skip watching the Jets.

Why? Can’t be any worse than watching Zach Wilson. Nothing wrong with minshew As a bridge qb til we find someone better

[JohnnyLV]

6 hours ago, maury77 said:

 

Or the LaFleur experiment could be nearing its end. As an asset, Zach is WAY more valuable to the Jets than LaFleur

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Wilson can do easy stuff to help himself and the team but doesn't.

Dude has decent wheels and a bit of open-field elusiveness, yet scrambles less than Fitzpatrick.  Has instincts that compel him to run every direction except forward.

[CanadienJetsFan]

Thanks for posting.

I actually took the time to watch the entire 38 minute video. It’s an objective and honest assessment of where Zack is at this point in time in his development. And unfortunately, he still plays like a rookie. He’s a one-look thrower of the ball. And when his first look isn’t there, he panics. The game is just too fast for him AT THIS POINT IN TIME.

 

 

 

[THE BARON]

6 hours ago, Dunnie said:

i think this is very likely what happens .. though i was sayin 3-4 round.  White THE perfect backup. More than solid, great teammate and understands defenses.  We need a kid behind ZW to push him during his make or break year in 2023.

They can keep both White, WIlson and draft Tanner McKee.  

[Jetsplayer21]

4 hours ago, Copernicus said:

I find the whole Zach Wilson demise (or not) fascinating.  Enough evidence to claim he sucks and get rid of him, enough evidence to claim his ability to make throws and plays that others cant is worth developing. How did this happened? For all intent purposes Joe Douglas seems like a competant GM and that is putting it mildly. Super successful picks that look to be future stars.  Could he have really missed this badly wih Zach? Zach showed zero evidence (from what I know) in college of not being able to be a simple pocket passer who could make the easy throws. His numbers in college prove it. So what gives? Are videos like this just "the next negaive thing about the Jets because they know they'll get the cliches from fans or is it not growing pains and he is just terrible with no hope.

I go back and forth with this dilema with every article or video I watch. 

Zack definitely didn’t prove much in college, playing limited for a low program like BYU. JD sure took a unproven risk with Zach pick. The NFL needs a minor league system ha, especially for qbs like Zach who are far from prepared to step foot in a NFL game until at least yr 3. 

[Grandy]

3 hours ago, DireJet said:

Favre’s a bad guy & did disgusting things in his short stint w/the Jets. Not sure why he deserved any protection and they were right to part ways. 

Don't forget stealing millions! From welfare nonetheless.

[football guy]

31 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Well, again -- that's of function of not having a stable/long-term HC with history of winning AND still searching for a QB... it goes without saying those leashes are shorter and open to scrutiny. I don't think we've disproportionately hung QBs out to dry -- that's confirmation bias re: NY sports media playing into perception IMO

Look I can't say nor do I believe that Mark Sanchez or Geno Smith could've become franchise QBs, but the level of dysfunction those guys endured under the same HC, who happens to be one of the more prosperous HCs in Jets history and coached the team for 6 seasons (which is a pretty long time in the NFL), says it all. 

[Hal N of Provo]

18 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Or the LaFleur experiment could be nearing its end. As an asset, Zach is WAY more valuable to the Jets than LaFleur

I had to work so I missed @Jetsfan80 rant.  
 

I also haven’t seen the whole video only a few minutes the first play he creamed Zach and was a terrible analysis by JT.  I’m busy today but I’m not sure the video is worth a watch.  As a former Jr High aged DC of Jr High boys even I know the first play showed JTs ass for having an agenda.  
 

That play was actually the complaint I’ve been harping on MLF for since Miami last season - Zach was ready to throw on that play - why they hell did MLF not have receivers turning fast enough to get a pass?  He’s got numbers off the back facing him across the field.

MLF may have a copy of the Shannan playbook but I’m not sure if he knows how to run it.
 

The hallmark was supposed to be flexibility to match a QBs strengths and MLF seems clueless.  Why the hell haven’t there been 8+ rollouts a game frequently featuring throws back across the field?  
 

If MLF can’t get receivers turning sooner there will continue being “dead meat” sacks for the QB to get killed on.  It’s stupid and it keeps happening.

every time I see all 22 It also begs the question about if MLF can’t get WRs running the right routes or if the routes in his plays really are that bad.

[peebag]

43 minutes ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

Why? Can’t be any worse than watching Zach Wilson. Nothing wrong with minshew As a bridge qb til we find someone better

white = wilson = minshew = treading water

 

[JetsFanShawn]

7 hours ago, maury77 said:

 

i gotta  laph is zach  wilson really for use  

[Grandy]

Geno reunion let's make it happen JD.

[PS17]

5 hours ago, JiFields said:

This is the stuff that should put any narrative of the "Jets failing" Wilson to bed.  Some of this sh*t, I mean, JT is laughing at it because it's elementary level reads and throws and he literally, cant do it, repeatedly.  I know everyone wants Lil Mikey to customize the system and call the good plays but then you put the All 22 on and see just how easy Lil Mikey is actually making it on this kid and it's disgusting.  Sure, he's not a perfect OC but how is supposed to calls plays for a guy like this?...which, we actually have footage of him screaming in the booth at one point.  lol 

 

Can we please bookmark this post for 8:45 PM tonight when everyone is screaming about LaFleur for nOt CaLlInG tHe GoOd PlAyZzZ

[BornJetsFan1983]

7 hours ago, maury77 said:

 

never seen thsii gusy before. but pretty interesting ..nice post brol

[Jetsfan80]

37 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

I had to work so I missed @Jetsfan80 rant.  
 

I also haven’t seen the whole video only a few minutes the first play he creamed Zach and was a terrible analysis by JT.  I’m busy today but I’m not sure the video is worth a watch.  As a former Jr High aged DC of Jr High boys even I know the first play showed JTs ass for having an agenda.  
 

That play was actually the complaint I’ve been harping on MLF for since Miami last season - Zach was ready to throw on that play - why they hell did MLF not have receivers turning fast enough to get a pass?  He’s got numbers off the back facing him across the field.

MLF may have a copy of the Shannan playbook but I’m not sure if he knows how to run it.
 

The hallmark was supposed to be flexibility to match a QBs strengths and MLF seems clueless.  Why the hell haven’t there been 8+ rollouts a game frequently featuring throws back across the field?  
 

If MLF can’t get receivers turning sooner there will continue being “dead meat” sacks for the QB to get killed on.  It’s stupid and it keeps happening.

every time I see all 22 It also begs the question about if MLF can’t get WRs running the right routes or if the routes in his plays really are that bad.

 

JTO explains lots of this but you won't watch because you think he's biased, lol.  So whatever.

We get it.  MLF sucks, I guess (but not really, in actuality).  Doesn't give Wilson a pass for not being able to complete JV-level passes or make a presnap read to save his life.