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How do we fix this OLine to give 2023 QB a chance


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Sorry- this unit needs an overhaul.

Factoring in cap & performance, who do you keep?  Any good names to replace with?

 

LT:  Duane Brown has played with a bum shoulder.  The team runs best to his left side and he’s given up 1 sack but been inconsistent in pass protection.

Counts $11.6M against 2023 cap.  $6.5M dead money if cut

My vote is to keep.  A healthy Brown should be an avg starting LT and the Jets can’t afford to eat too much dead cap space.

 

LG:  Laken Tomlinson suddenly forgot how to play football.  No push in the run game, poor anchor in pass pro.  JD paid a premium for a LG when we needed a RG.

Counts $17.3M against 2023 cap.  $4.3M dead cap in 2023 And again in 2024 if cut June 1

My vote is to cut losses and immediately insert AVT back at the premium guard position (QB blind side).  Save $13.1M to re-invest in OL.

 

Center:  UFA Connor McGovern was underrated by many fans until he wasn’t.  His run blocking has slipped and he has given up the 4th most pressures at Center.  Blitz and stunt pickup have been an issue during his tenure and almost got Mike White killed.

My vote is to upgrade because I don’t like investing in players who are beginning to slip and because we need to be a LOT better against blitzes & stunts.

 

RG:  UFA Nate Herbig has been mostly solid but has also slipped coming back from a calf injury.  He’s at least a quality backup.

My vote is to bring back as the #3 guard and backup Center.  Pay a premium, say goodbye to Feeney but caution on bringing Herbig back as a starter unless his calf injury has been more impactful than I can imagine.  If the latter, then bring back as a starter to minimize change for change sake.

 

RT:  UFA George Fant.  3 penalties last night and a shell of his 2021 form.  

Goodbye to Fant but the replacement  decision should come down to how confident the team is in Max Mitchell’s forward development and clean bill of health.  I’m optimistic and don’t want to spend a ton of money on a free agent pickup if we have a capable starter in Mitchell.

 

Depth:  Mekhi Becton, Re-sign LDT or similar player, re-sign Herbig as top interior backup if not deemed starting quality, OT in round 3

 

The $13.1M we save by cutting Tomlinson post June 1 can be re-allocated to signing a free agent Center and re-signing Herbig.  If Herbig is only a top tier back-up, we’ll need to find a starting caliber RG.  If Mitchell is not the guy, then we’ll need to find a starting caliber RT.

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Agree with a lot of this.

I'd add we need to spend a premium asset to acquire an OT. Whether that means a trade or using a 1st rd pick to draft it doesn't matter. 

I do think laken returns however. So left to right I have trade/draft pick, laken, FA/draft pick, avt, Mitchell.

Becton will backup right which will give him a chance to be fully healthy. 

Brown will backup left which was his original intended role anyways. Herbig returns as depth at guard. I think they try to find 1 more guard/center flex guy either late in draft to develop, as an UDFA, or scour practice squads/cuts of other teams.

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I think team needs as many decent OL as possible and probably has to overpay.  Since there is not anymore worthy of the franchise tag I think that means keeping and overpaying some OL and not re-signing the guys we have no control over.  So that is:

Brown-hold nose and keep

Laken-hold nose with two hands and keep.  His salary is fully guaranteed 3/21.  Good agent.  This can go the other way but would require guts.

McGovern-have to let go

Herbig-extend

Fant-have to let go.

Becton-we still own him, but he will not get the 5th year option-2023 is his last Jet year.  

This necessarily means we will picking OL in round 1 next year.  That is the smart move.  

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1 hour ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Sorry- this unit needs an overhaul.

Factoring in cap & performance, who do you keep?  Any good names to replace with?

 

LT:  Duane Brown has played with a bum shoulder.  The team runs best to his left side and he’s given up 1 sack but been inconsistent in pass protection.

Counts $11.6M against 2023 cap.  $6.5M dead money if cut

My vote is to keep.  A healthy Brown should be an avg starting LT and the Jets can’t afford to eat too much dead cap space.

 

LG:  Laken Tomlinson suddenly forgot how to play football.  No push in the run game, poor anchor in pass pro.  JD paid a premium for a LG when we needed a RG.

Counts $17.3M against 2023 cap.  $4.3M dead cap in 2023 And again in 2024 if cut June 1

My vote is to cut losses and immediately insert AVT back at the premium guard position (QB blind side).  Save $13.1M to re-invest in OL.

 

Center:  UFA Connor McGovern was underrated by many fans until he wasn’t.  His run blocking has slipped and he has given up the 4th most pressures at Center.  Blitz and stunt pickup have been an issue during his tenure and almost got Mike White killed.

My vote is to upgrade because I don’t like investing in players who are beginning to slip and because we need to be a LOT better against blitzes & stunts.

 

RG:  UFA Nate Herbig has been mostly solid but has also slipped coming back from a calf injury.  He’s at least a quality backup.

My vote is to bring back as the #3 guard and backup Center.  Pay a premium, say goodbye to Feeney but caution on bringing Herbig back as a starter unless his calf injury has been more impactful than I can imagine.  If the latter, then bring back as a starter to minimize change for change sake.

 

RT:  UFA George Fant.  3 penalties last night and a shell of his 2021 form.  

Goodbye to Fant but the replacement  decision should come down to how confident the team is in Max Mitchell’s forward development and clean bill of health.  I’m optimistic and don’t want to spend a ton of money on a free agent pickup if we have a capable starter in Mitchell.

 

Depth:  Mekhi Becton, Re-sign LDT or similar player, re-sign Herbig as top interior backup if not deemed starting quality, OT in round 3

 

The $13.1M we save by cutting Tomlinson post June 1 can be re-allocated to signing a free agent Center and re-signing Herbig.  If Herbig is only a top tier back-up, we’ll need to find a starting caliber RG.  If Mitchell is not the guy, then we’ll need to find a starting caliber RT.

No. This is how too many constructed this years OL. “We can add castoffs any time”. Also, anyone mentioning Becton as part of the OL answer in 2023 is delusional.

Draft quality OL high and often.

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More investment. Better investment.

Can’t have enough good linemen. Tomlinson was a scam, McGovern a fraud and relying on old man Brown/Becton at this point seems extremely risky.

An overhaul is indeed needed. Go hard in the draft again. All the other non-QB positions on the offence are in a better state. All non-LB positions on defence too.

That’s the positive for this off-season. The strengths and weaknesses are obvious - QB, LB, OL - That’s where the investment needs to come above all else. The big negative is that Douglas’ track record on the OL is abysmal.

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The Saleh and Douglas did not expect the oline to be the first to go down during the season. They were counting on Becton to be back and AVT not going down. But those players going down hurt the Jets this season. Douglas did his best to fix things, but everything went into a domino effect and the oline has hurt this team again. 

Douglas has to reevaluate the oline and see who comes and goes. One thing for sure they have draft a OT to replace Becton, and move Becton to the G position since they can't cut him. 

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2 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Sorry- this unit needs an overhaul.

Factoring in cap & performance, who do you keep?  Any good names to replace with?

 

LT:  Duane Brown has played with a bum shoulder.  The team runs best to his left side and he’s given up 1 sack but been inconsistent in pass protection.

Counts $11.6M against 2023 cap.  $6.5M dead money if cut

My vote is to keep.  A healthy Brown should be an avg starting LT and the Jets can’t afford to eat too much dead cap space.

 

LG:  Laken Tomlinson suddenly forgot how to play football.  No push in the run game, poor anchor in pass pro.  JD paid a premium for a LG when we needed a RG.

Counts $17.3M against 2023 cap.  $4.3M dead cap in 2023 And again in 2024 if cut June 1

My vote is to cut losses and immediately insert AVT back at the premium guard position (QB blind side).  Save $13.1M to re-invest in OL.

 

Center:  UFA Connor McGovern was underrated by many fans until he wasn’t.  His run blocking has slipped and he has given up the 4th most pressures at Center.  Blitz and stunt pickup have been an issue during his tenure and almost got Mike White killed.

My vote is to upgrade because I don’t like investing in players who are beginning to slip and because we need to be a LOT better against blitzes & stunts.

 

RG:  UFA Nate Herbig has been mostly solid but has also slipped coming back from a calf injury.  He’s at least a quality backup.

My vote is to bring back as the #3 guard and backup Center.  Pay a premium, say goodbye to Feeney but caution on bringing Herbig back as a starter unless his calf injury has been more impactful than I can imagine.  If the latter, then bring back as a starter to minimize change for change sake.

 

RT:  UFA George Fant.  3 penalties last night and a shell of his 2021 form.  

Goodbye to Fant but the replacement  decision should come down to how confident the team is in Max Mitchell’s forward development and clean bill of health.  I’m optimistic and don’t want to spend a ton of money on a free agent pickup if we have a capable starter in Mitchell.

 

Depth:  Mekhi Becton, Re-sign LDT or similar player, re-sign Herbig as top interior backup if not deemed starting quality, OT in round 3

 

The $13.1M we save by cutting Tomlinson post June 1 can be re-allocated to signing a free agent Center and re-signing Herbig.  If Herbig is only a top tier back-up, we’ll need to find a starting caliber RG.  If Mitchell is not the guy, then we’ll need to find a starting caliber RT.

There is no way MB is a depth guy if he's  still on the team.  They will make him a starter until he gets injured again. Sort of like how we keep trotting Zach out there. 

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10 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

There is no way MB is a depth guy if he's  still on the team.  They will make him a starter until he gets injured again. Sort of like how we keep trotting Zach out there. 

I actually hope so but they can’t count on him at this juncture.  2 years in a row..  it’s possible that they feel comfortable penciling in Becton/Mitchell as the starter at RT.  But then add depth in event of the likely injury 

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53 minutes ago, AL047 said:

The Saleh and Douglas did not expect the oline to be the first to go down during the season. They were counting on Becton to be back and AVT not going down. But those players going down hurt the Jets this season. Douglas did his best to fix things, but everything went into a domino effect and the oline has hurt this team again. 

Douglas has to reevaluate the oline and see who comes and goes. One thing for sure they have draft a OT to replace Becton, and move Becton to the G position since they can't cut him. 

Musn't worry. Becton will be injured wayyyy before training camp.

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14 hours ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Where we finding this new Guard, Center and RT in one offseason?

Hoping we can roll with Mitchell/Becton at RT while adding tackle depth in round 3 or so.

AVT back at the premium left guard helps immensely.  Right guard is less expensive and we can look to free agency, draft or a possible player for player grade.

We need a new Center regardless since McGovern is a FA.  I’m just proposing it’s not McGovern.

 

 

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What's the deal with Cedric Ogbuehi? I imagine his contract expires at the end of the season. Considering he was signed off the street mid year, I thought he played pretty well after AVT went down. I'd keep him on as depth.

The injuries have added up, but this O-Line was a strength earlier in the year. I don't think we're as far off as others believe. We need depth, and (way more importantly) they need to figure out why the injuries keep piling up every year.

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Agree with a lot of this. I’d draft a C in the first 2 rounds of the draft and a depth T in the 4th round or later because history has shown we need a lot of T’s. I’d also find a solid veteran guard like justin pugh to replace laken.

if we are lucky the line will be Brown, proven veteran, draft pick, AVT, Becton. With max mitchell as swing depth T and Herbig as depth G. I hope the jets like some of their developmental O linemen, because Bectons health is a question mark until he proves it is not and 2/5ths of the line will be old. I think the lesson here is that it takes more than 4 seasons to rebuild an O line that has been ignored in the draft for a decade. Frankly, I’d be OK if the jets used 3 of their first 6 picks on O linemen.

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It'll never happen but I'm so sick of this yearly OL problem that I'd be fine with drafting OL in rounds 1-3 (or 2 of the 1st 3 rounds). 

A strong OL helps the running game, passing game and even defense (due to TOP).  Look at the Lions right now behind their strong OL! 

 

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32 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Agree with a lot of this. I’d draft a C in the first 2 rounds of the draft and a depth T in the 4th round or later because history has shown we need a lot of T’s. I’d also find a solid veteran guard like justin pugh to replace laken.

if we are lucky the line will be Brown, proven veteran, draft pick, AVT, Becton. With max mitchell as swing depth T and Herbig as depth G. I hope the jets like some of their developmental O linemen, because Bectons health is a question mark until he proves it is not and 2/5ths of the line will be old. I think the lesson here is that it takes more than 4 seasons to rebuild an O line that has been ignored in the draft for a decade. Frankly, I’d be OK if the jets used 3 of their first 6 picks on O linemen.

You lost me when you mentioned Becton. I’d draft 2 OL in the first 3 rounds.

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The line’s not that far off, just have to get everyone healthy and playing together. I would look to replace McGov, but otherwise resign the depth (Herbig, LDT, Ogbuehi etc) and get another OC and Tackle in FA/Draft. Otherwise, figure out what happened to Laken and move accordingly. 
 

OT: Brown, New Guy, Mitchell, Becton, Ogbuehi, depth player

OG/C: Tomlinson, New OC, AVT, Herbig, LDT, depth player. 

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17 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

More investment. Better investment.

Can’t have enough good linemen. Tomlinson was a scam, McGovern a fraud and relying on old man Brown/Becton at this point seems extremely risky.

An overhaul is indeed needed. Go hard in the draft again. All the other non-QB positions on the offence are in a better state. All non-LB positions on defence too.

That’s the positive for this off-season. The strengths and weaknesses are obvious - QB, LB, OL - That’s where the investment needs to come above all else. The big negative is that Douglas’ track record on the OL is abysmal.

4 season-ending injuries to tackles is hard for any GM to come back from.  And Fant was gone most of the year and is still battling a knee injury.  We saw a glimpse of the vision with Breece early in the season, along with bookends of Brown and Mitchell/Fant with AVT and Tomlinson at guard.  They were power running outside, opening up the play-action with the run.  The offense is a shell of that offense from earlier in the season.  We get an immediate infusion from a healthy AVT and Becton returning, we draft/sign at least two more tackles, Brown will be back as well I would assume given the cap hit, and given how reliable he has been.   We'll need a center desperately in the draft or free agency. Can't fully blame JD on this one; sure, you can nail him for Becton over Wirfs, but without injuries, not sure that is fair.  Becton's story is not yet over.  He's playing for a contract next year.  I expect he will work his way back into the starting lineup.

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I agree, we need to invest heavy into the OL.  LT in the 1st, C in the 2nd.

 

I think with Mitchell's progression this past year, you could go into '23-24 with Becton as the starting RT, feeling good about that spot even if he goes down again.  

 

I do like Herbig though, but if not as a starter I would still bring him back, like you said.  Not sure what RG options will be out there via FA.

 

But yeah, ideally I'm looking at a LT like Cody Mauch in RD1 and a C like Jarrett Patterson in the 2nd.  Go into '23-24 with:

 

LT:  Mauch; Brown

LG: AVT; cheap replacement for Tomlinson

C : Patterson; Herbig

RG: FA pickup; Herbig

RT: Becton; Mitchell

 

If we invest that much into the OL you should be looking at a pretty strong offense next year, at least if we're relatively healthy.  I think White behind that line with the weapons he'll have, including a healthy Breece coming back....yeah that's something I want to see.  

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First I’m assuming we will go after a vet QB who will have the awareness and ability to read the defense and get rid of the ball quicker than Zach. A QB who will pose a bigger threat to defenses than Zach or MW so teams don’t stack the box and blitz non-stop. Translation- we don’t have to have stud o-linemen at every position. 


My view is that it will be tough to find quality olinemen in FA and easier to bring guys back. 
 

Cut Tomlinson. He clears a ton of much needed cap space and his play seems to have really deteriorated. 

Resign Herbig with the intention of starting him. As I said. We don’t need a stud at every position. He won’t be cheap but he won’t cost a ton either. He has been solid this year and he is young. 
 

Resign McGovern. He has been solid. Not pro bowl caliber by any means but again, pair him with a quality QB and his play will be elevated. 
 

Draft an OT early. 1st round. That’s my view. Take a guy who will compete with Brown for the starting LT spot or with Mitchell/Becton for the RT spot. If we are selecting in the late teens/early twenties there should still be a quality OT. 
 

Draft an IOL/C in Rd 5. This is a sweet spot for a developmental C or G. Keep the pipeline going.

Note: I have Rd 2 set aside for a WR (Corey Davis replacement) and Rds 3/4 to add a LB and S. 

 

We end up with something like this, with some misc depth:

LT: Brown/1st Rd pick/Becton 

LG: Herbig

C  : McGovern/5th rd pick 

RG: AVT

RT: Mitchell/1st Rd pick/Becton 

Hopefully the 1st round pick ends up a stud and we plug him in at LT, giving us Brown as a depth piece. Otherwise, the rook can be a swing. 

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19 hours ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Where we finding this new Guard, Center and RT in one offseason?

As much as I love Oline, some folks seem to think we need #1 picks at all five spots.

Again, it’s hard to judge our Oline when most of them got hurt, and for most of the year we’ve been playing with a slow-thinking, slow reacting, poor vision, not-ready-for-the-NFL QB and 4th string and 5th string RB’s.

I’m willing to bet they’re not as bad as many think with just a new starting QB and maybe another legit RB.

Im not saying not to upgrade or draft OZl if possible, but the QB position is the real clear and present need, and it’s likely to cost a lot to fix it. We trot Wilson out again, no amount of Oline upgrades will look good.

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29 minutes ago, Warfish said:

As much as I love Oline, some folks seem to think we need #1 picks at all five spots.

Again, it’s hard to judge our Oline when most of them got hurt, and for most of the year we’ve been playing with a slow-thinking, slow reacting, poor vision, not-ready-for-the-NFL QB and 4th string and 5th string RB’s.

I’m willing to bet they’re not as bad as many think with just a new starting QB and maybe another legit RB.

Im not saying not to upgrade or draft OZl if possible, but the QB position is the real clear and present need, and it’s likely to cost a lot to fix it. We trot Wilson out again, no amount of Oline upgrades will look good.

I agree. I think the OL will look pretty similar to last year. Maybe one new face at guard or T. 
But they just need to be healthy. It was fine at the start of the year. 
I just don’t think you can’t count on Becton, thus finding a new tackle somewhere. 

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If they don't resign McGovern, they need a new starting C.  Need a new starting OT, and maybe a new swing tackle.  If they can sign a quality free agent or two, they wouldn't need to use a ton of draft picks, but maybe just one in the first three rounds, on an OL.

Fant should be gone, and the Jets will need AVT to come back strong from injury.  They simply cannot count on Becton for anything, nor Mitchell if reports of his issue being blood clots are true.  Getting either or both of those guys healthy for next season should be considered a bonus.

 

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22 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Sorry- this unit needs an overhaul.

Factoring in cap & performance, who do you keep?  Any good names to replace with?

 

LT:  Duane Brown has played with a bum shoulder.  The team runs best to his left side and he’s given up 1 sack but been inconsistent in pass protection.

Counts $11.6M against 2023 cap.  $6.5M dead money if cut

My vote is to keep.  A healthy Brown should be an avg starting LT and the Jets can’t afford to eat too much dead cap space.

 

LG:  Laken Tomlinson suddenly forgot how to play football.  No push in the run game, poor anchor in pass pro.  JD paid a premium for a LG when we needed a RG.

Counts $17.3M against 2023 cap.  $4.3M dead cap in 2023 And again in 2024 if cut June 1

My vote is to cut losses and immediately insert AVT back at the premium guard position (QB blind side).  Save $13.1M to re-invest in OL.

 

Center:  UFA Connor McGovern was underrated by many fans until he wasn’t.  His run blocking has slipped and he has given up the 4th most pressures at Center.  Blitz and stunt pickup have been an issue during his tenure and almost got Mike White killed.

My vote is to upgrade because I don’t like investing in players who are beginning to slip and because we need to be a LOT better against blitzes & stunts.

 

RG:  UFA Nate Herbig has been mostly solid but has also slipped coming back from a calf injury.  He’s at least a quality backup.

My vote is to bring back as the #3 guard and backup Center.  Pay a premium, say goodbye to Feeney but caution on bringing Herbig back as a starter unless his calf injury has been more impactful than I can imagine.  If the latter, then bring back as a starter to minimize change for change sake.

 

RT:  UFA George Fant.  3 penalties last night and a shell of his 2021 form.  

Goodbye to Fant but the replacement  decision should come down to how confident the team is in Max Mitchell’s forward development and clean bill of health.  I’m optimistic and don’t want to spend a ton of money on a free agent pickup if we have a capable starter in Mitchell.

 

Depth:  Mekhi Becton, Re-sign LDT or similar player, re-sign Herbig as top interior backup if not deemed starting quality, OT in round 3

 

The $13.1M we save by cutting Tomlinson post June 1 can be re-allocated to signing a free agent Center and re-signing Herbig.  If Herbig is only a top tier back-up, we’ll need to find a starting caliber RG.  If Mitchell is not the guy, then we’ll need to find a starting caliber RT.

Like the analysis!

Some questions:

  • Does Brown require surgery for his shoulder? I seem to remember hearing that when he got hurt initially. Maybe I'm mis-remembering. Also, what are the odds that Brown hangs em up? He's had a good career, is he really coming back?
  • Any thoughts as to who could replace CMG? Here's the FA list: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/center//. Not sure there are many options for who jump out. And we had issues filling in Center after Mangold.
  • Same question for signing a guard. Not much in FA. Drafting either C or OG may be a better route. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/guard//

So, the line would possibly be 

  • LT - Brown
  • LG - AVT
  • C - FA
  • RG - FA
  • RT - Mitchell / FA
  • OT Depth - Mitchell (if not starting), Becton, draft pick
  • OG Depth - LDT, Herbig
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