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Bart Scott got Zach’s back….sort of.


Maynard13

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So I heard Bart Scott’s analysis after the jags game and he said you just don’t get rid of a number 2 pick after two years. you have to stick with him and continue to coach him up. Then I heard his analysis on NFL Sirius radio and he said Zach has been given everything Darnold was not and at some point you have to hold the player accountable but in defense of Zack he said he’s just not ready to take on the responsibility of being a starter in the NFL. He just does not have the experience or the maturity and he’s going to have to go through the growing pains, but you do not give up on him. He added a lot of other stuff saying that Zack has matured this season even though his play has not been up to level and offered a lot of other insights. Bottom line - he said Zach needs to experience more, Be coached up more and mature. Interesting take.

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4 minutes ago, Maynard13 said:

He added a lot of other stuff saying that Zack has matured this season even though his play has not been up to level and offered a lot of other insights.

He has been humiliated; it’s far too early to say whether that has led to actual humility and maturity.

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44 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

you have to try and get him right but you also can't count on him being fixed at this point. Bring in a vet who you can depend on to play solid football and if zach magically fixes himself you have yourself a good problem.

I like this - although I’d still consider bringing back mike white. 

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11 minutes ago, Maynard13 said:

So I heard Bart Scott’s analysis after the jags game and he said you just don’t get rid of a number 2 pick after two years. you have to stick with him and continue to coach him up. Then I heard his analysis on NFL Sirius radio and he said Zach has been given everything Darnold was not and at some point you have to hold the player accountable but in defense of Zack he said he’s just not ready to take on the responsibility of being a starter in the NFL. He just does not have the experience or the maturity and he’s going to have to go through the growing pains, but you do not give up on him. He added a lot of other stuff saying that Zack has matured this season even though his play has not been up to level and offered a lot of other insights. Bottom line - he said Zach needs to experience more, Be coached up more and mature. Interesting take.

What Bart says is common sense stuff. The Jets as an organisation, failed to recognise that Wilson was too immature and inexperienced to be a starter in the NFL, let alone in New York. 

The Jets failed ZW, at least to some degree. It's only the extent of that culpability that will be argued in the close season. Even if people think Wilson is limited as a player, one of two things has happened here:

1. Wilson is close to maxing out on his potential, you can't coach him up, he's just terrible, well then you exonerate the coaching and blame the scouting. 

2. Wilson is not close to maxing out on his potential, it just hasn't happened for whatever reason, well now you need to re-examine the coaching and the scouting. You need to find out what that reason is.  If it's partly-coaching, removing Wilson doesn't fix the issue. 

In either scenario, you recognise Wilson is broken, you bench and forget about him for two years and bring in a starter to compete next year.

 

 

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53 minutes ago, pointman said:

Zach has 23 or so starts under his belt. Somehow he has gotten worse. He is going to be on year 3 of his rookie deal, that is fully guaranteed. You bring him back but not as the starter. If he earns it back, great. If not, you tried your best for a former #2 overall pick. You don't cut him now for nothing. Thats just dumb.

Remember when they told us he 'earned' it in the pre-season?! ?

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3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

No, Zach Wilson failed the Jets, was never even close the player or talent his fans thought he was, and will likely go down in history as the biggest Jets bust ever, and a top 10 worst draft pick in overall NFL history.

People have got to stop buying into the sunk cost fallacy over Wilson. You do not continue to invest time and money into this player, it just compounds the already-made mistake of drafting him in the first place.

Wilson is done as a Jet. The focus now  moving forward is where the responsibility lies for that.

My point is that if coaching is a factor in Wilson failings, then you need to hold the those coaches accountable too, to ensure that it doesn't happen again with another QB.

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2 hours ago, jgb said:

He has been humiliated; it’s far too early to say whether that has led to actual humility and maturity.

His press conference yesterday was very different compared to the Pats conference. He accepted responsibility. It was a far cry of saying "I don't think I let the defense down'. This was Bart's main point. That he has 'grown' 'matured'.  I'm wouldn't argue with Bart Scott. He may turn you into a pretzel like JD threatened he'd do to @kevinc855

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Bart Scott is full of sh*t. He used to verbally abuse Sanchez every day all day, but now he wants the org to treat the second overall pick like a moody 18 year old who’s going through some stuff. Hot take, Bart. 

No his take was Zach is just not mature or was NFL ready to play, say like a Justin Fields who played a lot more in college.  His take was quite accurate.  His point was Zach is a kid, like a little kid who should not have been thrown into the fire for several reasons: Immature, lack of support in 1st year, lack of playing time in college.  Its not about how bad he has been in his first 2 years as a Jet, Zach should never have even played the first 2 years and expected to hit the floor running.  There was no rush. Now you are dealing with all kinds of peripheral stuff: a fractured locker room, a clueless coaching staff.   People will be held accountable for all this.  

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29 minutes ago, Maynard13 said:

No his take was Zach is just not mature or was NFL ready to play, say like a Justin Fields who played a lot more in college.  His take was quite accurate.  His point was Zach is a kid, like a little kid who should not have been thrown into the fire for several reasons: Immature, lack of support in 1st year, lack of playing time in college.  Its not about how bad he has been in his first 2 years as a Jet, Zach should never have even played the first 2 years and expected to hit the floor running.  There was no rush. Now you are dealing with all kinds of peripheral stuff: a fractured locker room, a clueless coaching staff.   People will be held accountable for all this.  

….whose decision do you think it was to start him on day one? 

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I hate woulda, coulda, shoulda, because it doesn't help going forward, but they should have never brought him back for the Lions game. 

What exactly has Flacco's purpose been for the past 4 weeks? Why is he even still on the roster? 

Jets management totally screwed the pooch on this because everything would have been fine if they never brought him back.

Now what do they do? They better hope MW can play the next two games because putting Zach back out there for two more games will only make this worse. Alot worse. 

Zach is under contract next season, I get it, JD can't/won't trade him or cut him, but I do not want him to start. I don't care what his teammates say or what the coaches are saying or Bart Scott. Everybody is taking the high road on this because to do otherwise would be abuse. This is a business, but you don't humiliate people. 

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45 minutes ago, Maynard13 said:

His take was quite accurate.  His point was Zach is a kid, like a little kid who should not have been thrown into the fire for several reasons: Immature, lack of support in 1st year, lack of playing time in college. 

I get all that, but you can't turn a pickle back into a cucumber. What's done is done. The best thing going forward is to part ways. I realize we can't/won't for the duration of his contract, but I guarantee you Zach has no intention of ever playing for this team again, unless he is forced to. You can tell last night he did not want to be there. Starting him in the second half was abuse. Why is Flacco wearing a uniform and getting paid if he can't play? That was a crisis and Saleh puts Zach back out there when it was clear that NOBODY WANTED HIM OUT THERE except the Jaguars.

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10 minutes ago, peebag said:

Ok but what has Mikey W. done other than put up more stats?

Look he moved the offense better more consistently he’s shown at least average passing ability but he lost 2 out of 3 games even with a good defense and couldn’t stay healthy. Plus better leadership on team than Zach. 

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31 minutes ago, Coquito said:

I get all that, but you can't turn a pickle back into a cucumber. What's done is done. The best thing going forward is to part ways. I realize we can't/won't for the duration of his contract, but I guarantee you Zach has no intention of ever playing for this team again, unless he is forced to. You can tell last night he did not want to be there. Starting him in the second half was abuse. Why is Flacco wearing a uniform and getting paid if he can't play? That was a crisis and Saleh puts Zach back out there when it was clear that NOBODY WANTED HIM OUT THERE except the Jaguars.

Actually you might be on to something there. I got that feeling also. He hates playing here and hates being here.  Is he purposely laying like crapola to get out of here. That would be really bizzaro.

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

No, Zach Wilson failed the Jets, was never even close the player or talent his fans thought he was, and will likely go down in history as the biggest Jets bust ever, and a top 10 worst draft pick in overall NFL history.

People have got to stop buying into the sunk cost fallacy over Wilson. You do not continue to invest time and money into this player, it just compounds the already-made mistake of drafting him in the first place.

I'm old enough to remember when drafting Kenny O'Brien over Dan Marino was a disaster.

We've come a long way, baby!

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12 minutes ago, Maynard13 said:

Actually you might be on to something there. I got that feeling also. He hates playing here and hates being here.  Is he purposely laying like crapola to get out of here. That would be really bizzaro.

I wish Al Davis was still alive. Al would trade for Zach. 

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

People have got to stop buying into the sunk cost fallacy over Wilson. You do not continue to invest time and money into this player, it just compounds the already-made mistake of drafting him in the first place.

Not sure I understand this.  If JD brings in a guy like Minshew to replace Flacco and resigns White, what do we care if JD spends Woody's money coaching up Zach to hopefully develop enough to take over at some point?  If he sits as a QB3 next year and never gets activated or sees the field, why is that a problem?  Unless you feel that roster spot needs to go to some special teams guy, I'm not sure what the issue is.

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Not sure I understand this.  If JD brings in a guy like Minshew to replace Flacco and resigns White, what do we care if JD spends Woody's money coaching up Zach to hopefully develop enough to take over at some point?  If he sits as a QB3 next year and never gets activated or sees the field, why is that a problem?  Unless you feel that roster spot needs to go to some special teams guy, I'm not sure what the issue is.
Your being far too reasonable.

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7 hours ago, Maynard13 said:

His press conference yesterday was very different compared to the Pats conference. He accepted responsibility. It was a far cry of saying "I don't think I let the defense down'. This was Bart's main point. That he has 'grown' 'matured'.  I'm wouldn't argue with Bart Scott. He may turn you into a pretzel like JD threatened he'd do to @kevinc855

Just like one game of good play doesn’t make me think a QB has “had the switch flipped,” I need more evidence of a sustained maturation. 
 

It was just a month ago he completely alienated his team.

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