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Instant-Coffee Era (projection onto fanbase)


Christos607

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1 hour ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Exactly.. JD and Saleh were the idiots who thought an inexperienced college qb coming from a weaker program, could immediately come in a play with the big boys because of 1 throw at the combine ? Lol. He should have never even been considered to touch the field on Sundays until his 3 rd yr. He was always going to be a major gamble. Sure lot of teams behind jets cheered when JD picked Zach 2nd overall. Knowing he didn’t mess up anyone else’s board ?

Questioning whether or not he should have been the pick at 2 is one thing , saying he shouldn't have seen the field till year 3 is absurd.

The Jets were going nowhere last season, had brand new HC, OL, OC , it made no sense to sit Zach on the bench behind a washed up Vet journeyman , what would he have learned seeing Flacco sacked and fumble with every third hit . The experience he gained was more valuable then sitting in the classroom.  The problem is this year the team outperformed what many expected , as this was still meant to be an evaluation and growing year for Zach.  The only reason the narrative has changed is because the team unexpectedly found itself in a playoff race. 

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Sure it’s the fans too.

The vast bulk of fans wanted Wilson to get no competition in camp, and to be the starter opening day. Same as always with high-picked rookie QB’s. 

Fans are absolutely guilty of “rushing” these QB’s too, albeit in a non control way. But fan pressure is no small thing.

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32 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Questioning whether or not he should have been the pick at 2 is one thing , saying he shouldn't have seen the field till year 3 is absurd.

The Jets were going nowhere last season, had brand new HC, OL, OC , it made no sense to sit Zach on the bench behind a washed up Vet journeyman , what would he have learned seeing Flacco sacked and fumble with every third hit . The experience he gained was more valuable then sitting in the classroom.  The problem is this year the team outperformed what many expected , as this was still meant to be an evaluation and growing year for Zach.  The only reason the narrative has changed is because the team unexpectedly found itself in a playoff race. 

This thinking is absurd. Just because the jets didn’t suckk according to plan, doesn’t mean Sundays are now a playground for inexperienced not ready qbs to play awful football in hopes they “ learn from it “ lol. It also is only a theory. Another is when a qb is so bad as Zach is, or just not anywhere near ready, and is forced and rushed it can DESTROY his confidence permanently. Also why is supposedly learning the fundamentals in practice, saleh even admits he is forgetting completely what he learns and is going back to bad habits when he gets in games. That is called regression.  This kid is mentally weak, and he definitely could have used 2 years to build up not only his skills and fundamentals, but his mental toughness before being completely ruined. 

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I think Saleh says stuff to protect his players, especially the fragile ones.  It's very similar to Rex, but obviously in a different fashion.  I do believe it's designed.  The dude's talking insta-coffee, yet, like you mentioned, he rushed Zach out there w/ no veteran support behind him.  The following year, he benched him, twice.  He also has played damn never all the rookies, right away.  So yeah, it's contradictory in nature but I think designed to protect the players and let people talk about his comments...and here we are...talking about a presser that means nothing.

My plan was to trade picks and build around Sam Darnold, not insta-coffee at all.  If they were dead set on a QB, I wanted them to draft Justin Fields and have him sit an entire year behind a veteran like Mahomes did, nothing insta-coffee about that plan again from this fan.  Putting a rookie out there last year on the worst offense in the NFL w/ a rookie coaching staff was a bad idea.  Period.  And they've totally mismanaged it since but at least they're trying and not just sticking their fingers in the ears and covering their eyes.

So all that said, I take it with a grain of salt damn near anytime he defends Zach...

 

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8 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

This thinking is absurd. Just because the jets didn’t suckk according to plan, doesn’t mean Sundays are now a playground for inexperienced not ready qbs to play awful football in hopes they “ learn from it “ lol. It also is only a theory. Another is when a qb is so bad as Zach is, or just not anywhere near ready, and is forced and rushed it can DESTROY his confidence permanently. Also why is supposedly learning the fundamentals in practice, saleh even admits he is forgetting completely what he learns and is going back to bad habits when he gets in games. That is called regression.  This kid is mentally weak, and he definitely could have used 2 years to build up not only his skills and fundamentals, but his mental toughness before being completely ruined. 

No top draft pick QB will ever sit for 2 years unless they have a star QB in front of them playing. The mentality that a QB needs to sit to learn went out of fashion after the era of single bar facemasks. Confidence isn't gained by watching someone else play or studying film, confidence is gained by playing and succeeding. 

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16 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

This thinking is absurd. Just because the jets didn’t suckk according to plan, doesn’t mean Sundays are now a playground for inexperienced not ready qbs to play awful football in hopes they “ learn from it “ lol. It also is only a theory. Another is when a qb is so bad as Zach is, or just not anywhere near ready, and is forced and rushed it can DESTROY his confidence permanently. Also why is supposedly learning the fundamentals in practice, saleh even admits he is forgetting completely what he learns and is going back to bad habits when he gets in games. That is called regression.  This kid is mentally weak, and he definitely could have used 2 years to build up not only his skills and fundamentals, but his mental toughness before being completely ruined. 

All due respect ...You sir... are wrong ... The vast majority of kids.coming out can't play coming out.

How's Trey Lance doing ? Justin Fields... Heck how did Trevor fair last year.

Take your microwavable popcorn ideas elsewhere.

 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

I’m tired of Blame the fans bullsh*t. You lost 4 straight. Tell me how the fans contributed to this? 
 

It’s all just coverage to protect their wrong headed decision to draft Zach at 2

Kevin you're the perfect fan - can you give it a rest now. 

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1 hour ago, 56mehl56 said:

No top draft pick QB will ever sit for 2 years unless they have a star QB in front of them playing. The mentality that a QB needs to sit to learn went out of fashion after the era of single bar facemasks. Confidence isn't gained by watching someone else play or studying film, confidence is gained by playing and succeeding. 

This is just wrong.

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1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

All due respect ...You sir... are wrong ... The vast majority of kids.coming out can't play coming out.

How's Trey Lance doing ? Justin Fields... Heck how did Trevor fair last year.

Take your microwavable popcorn ideas elsewhere.

 

 

 

Exactly. 49ers are a great example, a good team like ours ready to win now. We don’t see them saying “ sorry jimmy or Brock , we know you two are better now but see we picked lance in top 5 so he has to play so he can develop even if it costs us a season or 3 “ ?

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1 hour ago, 56mehl56 said:

No top draft pick QB will ever sit for 2 years unless they have a star QB in front of them playing. The mentality that a QB needs to sit to learn went out of fashion after the era of single bar facemasks. Confidence isn't gained by watching someone else play or studying film, confidence is gained by playing and succeeding. 

“Not sitting to learn. I don’t know why you think Zach was going to be on bench taking notes about what Flacco did lol. That is absurd thinking. A young qb should NEVER step on the field until he can play competent nfl football. That what practice is for. 3 games is not anywhere near enough for Zach to “ reset “ and just focus on basic fundamentals. I know the gm and coaches now want the “ instant coffee “ qb ready to play as a rookie. They don’t want to work on a qb in practice and film. Some can play right away. Some like Zach need a LOT of work, and shouldn’t touch the field until yr 3. We all wanted Zach to play decent football and progress as he got older. It’s not doing anyone good for him to be the worst qb in nfl history and totally ruin a kid. But he likely wouldn’t have been able to correct all his issues anyway. 

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I wish one reporter would ask the most basic question:  What did Zach Wilson show you in training camp to give you the confidence that he was the starter?  Even more immediate, what has he shown in practice the last two weeks that have led you to believe he even belongs on an NFL football field?  It's just not realistic to think he is competent in practice but forgets everything in a live game.  And if it is, then the way they practice and prepare at that position should be looked at and remedied as the highest of priorities.  You can't keep going into games with zero potential to even score points without draining the live out of the entire team not to mention paying customers.  Something has to change.    

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1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

All due respect ...You sir... are wrong ... The vast majority of kids.coming out can't play coming out.

How's Trey Lance doing ? Justin Fields... Heck how did Trevor fair last year.

Take your microwavable popcorn ideas elsewhere.

 

 

 

Yeah but the Jets did it totally different than everyone else. 

Trey Lance sat and watched last year.  They resigned the veteran he sat behind for this season.  He was taken 1 selection after Zach Wilson, yet treated completely different.  

Justin Fields also, did not start week 1 last year, Andy Dalton did.  Justin Fields was forced into action when Dalton was injured.

T. Law was technically in a "camp battle" last year w/ CJ Beathard The coaching staff didnt name him the starter till the 3rd preseason game.

Mac Jones was in a camp battle w/ Cam Newton and Brian Hoyer and also was not named the started until the 3rd preseason game.

Davis Mills sat behind Tyrod Taylor for 6 games before he was forced to play due to injury.

The only QB from that draft to come into camp/preseason and the season w/ out any type of competition or a viable veteran back up?  Is you're boo sauce mega bust, Zachapono Wilson.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Sure it’s the fans too.

The vast bulk of fans wanted Wilson to get no competition in camp, and to be the starter opening day. Same as always with high-picked rookie QB’s. 

Fans are absolutely guilty of “rushing” these QB’s too, albeit in a non control way. But fan pressure is no small thing.

Let's also give credit where it's due to Patriots' fans, who brought Tom Brady along at the perfect pace.

This post is sarcastic, btw, in case that isn't obvious.

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11 minutes ago, ChewyandtheJets said:

I wish one reporter would ask the most basic question:  What did Zach Wilson show you in training camp to give you the confidence that he was the starter?  Even more immediate, what has he shown in practice the last two weeks that have led you to believe he even belongs on an NFL football field?  It's just not realistic to think he is competent in practice but forgets everything in a live game.  And if it is, then the way they practice and prepare at that position should be looked at and remedied as the highest of priorities.  You can't keep going into games with zero potential to even score points without draining the live out of the entire team not to mention paying customers.  Something has to change.    

Wilson struggled last preseason too. Wasn’t good in camp. Same thing this preseason before he got hurt. The Jets were hoping that it would just click. 

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1 hour ago, 56mehl56 said:

No top draft pick QB will ever sit for 2 years unless they have a star QB in front of them playing. The mentality that a QB needs to sit to learn went out of fashion after the era of single bar facemasks. Confidence isn't gained by watching someone else play or studying film, confidence is gained by playing and succeeding. 

You didn't give any evidence or reasons why you shouldn't sit certain QBs who aren't ready you just said a bunch of dumb sh*t.

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3 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Let's also give credit where it's due to Patriots' fans, who brought Tom Brady along at the perfect pace.

That was the still the smart patient era. Hec tom would have still been riding bench if starter didn’t get hurt. Same with Kurt Warner. That that is good point, nether were rookies and asked to do what many can’t. When young qbs got the call back in those days, they were ready, or more than ready. Now it’s rush them in, if it ruins them so be it ha. This is all JD’s fault too. Mike white was number 3, but JD arrogantly brought  Flacco back as the backup probably just to give Zach confidence knowing he could play as bad as he wanted because of who his backup was.

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Very good OP.  I don't think this team is good QB play away from being good.  We got good QB play out of MW and there is no indication this team has a winning record with him as the starter.   

With AVT and Hall healthy yes.  With the current OL and no running attack along with an atrocisous special teams punting game this isn't a playoff team.  It's a team with a top 10 D and a second rate O and terrible special teams.

 

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Guys I have a confession to make. Me, average Joe fan. 

It's all my fault. It's my fault who we hire, who we draft, who we pay, who plays or sits, the loss of confidence by our players, the "toxic" environment as Mrs. Wilson so correctly pointed out. 

It's all on me.

I have to do better as a fan.

I'm sorry. In the spirit of Christmas, can you find it in your hearts to forgive me?

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17 minutes ago, undertow said:

You didn't give any evidence or reasons why you shouldn't sit certain QBs who aren't ready you just said a bunch of dumb sh*t.

GM's/coaches  aren't going to sit a top draft pick QB for 2 years w/o them playing and being evaluated , That is the kind of thinking that gets them fired , to think otherwise is dumb sh*t. 

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3 minutes ago, Sammybighead said:

Guys I have a confession to make. Me, average Joe fan. 

It's all my fault. It's my fault who we hire, who we draft, who we pay, who plays or sits, the loss of confidence by our players, the "toxic" environment as Mrs. Wilson so correctly pointed out. 

It's all on me.

I have to do better as a fan.

I'm sorry. In the spirit of Christmas, can you find it in your hearts to forgive me?

That's very big of you.  Accountability is step 1 and everyone knows it is your fault.  You just haven't prepared well enough.  We need you to be better.  Personally I will look in the mirror as well.  I know last game I forgot a backup propane and almost ruined the tailgate.  I know I have to be better than that and will learn and grow from my mistake. 

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1 minute ago, 56mehl56 said:

GM's/coaches  aren't going to sit a top draft pick QB for 2 years w/o them playing and being evaluated , That is the kind of thinking that gets them fired , to think otherwise is dumb sh*t. 

Yes I too believe having someone do a job they are unprepared to do is an intelligent way to do business and sets everyone up for success....a matter of fact I'm about to hire a plumber who has no experience and just out of high school.

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13 minutes ago, Sammybighead said:

Guys I have a confession to make. Me, average Joe fan. 

It's all my fault. It's my fault who we hire, who we draft, who we pay, who plays or sits, the loss of confidence by our players, the "toxic" environment as Mrs. Wilson so correctly pointed out. 

It's all on me.

I have to do better as a fan.

I'm sorry. In the spirit of Christmas, can you find it in your hearts to forgive me?

You can make it up by sending over the traditional post Christmas meal.

12 White Castle cheeseburgers and a choc shake

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OP couldn’t be more right either. The fans noticing (please don’t notice fans or fear being called a bad fan!) that there was a massive scouting breakdown in their evaluation of Zach Wilson. He wasn’t ready to play in the NFL. The fans don’t need to become better fans, the Jets scouts and decision makers need to be better. You could say the same about their evaluation of Becton. Mental midgets don’t last in the league. Ask tougher questions, dig harder on what coaches saw in them etc etc. Wilson never got hit in college and now gets rattled by the slightest pressure. This shouldn’t be that hard to figure out.

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3 hours ago, Warfish said:

Sure it’s the fans too.

The vast bulk of fans wanted Wilson to get no competition in camp, and to be the starter opening day. Same as always with high-picked rookie QB’s. 

Fans are absolutely guilty of “rushing” these QB’s too, albeit in a non control way. But fan pressure is no small thing.

I specifically said that the Jets should have sat YOUNG INEXPERIENCED QBs, no matter what the draft position but folks in mass out here said that you can't draft a QB that high to sit... WRONG!!

This is the result in this market and we keep making the same DUMB mistakes because the media and fans say you cannot have patience in NY/NJ!

a) Sanchez should not have started, when even his College coach, Pete Carroll said he wasn't ready and now people say that Sanchez was holding back the team!  Well, if the team was ready to win an SB why draft a guy who wasn't ready and START HIM!!!!  WHY??????? NUTS!!!

b) Darnold, who had barely played the QB position out of college, was the YOUNGEST starter in NFL HISTORY at 19, and folks out here said why does he need to be developed?  WHY??????.....................................

Sam had No QB coach, no OL, No Skill position players, and yea he sucked cause he alone couldn't essentially develop himself and lift poor coaching (Bowls is lifting Brady right?) Adam Gase............

And yes Sam today is a shell-shocked 25-year-old QB with BAD NOW INGRAINED HABITS!  Think he is Younger than Mayfield, and Burrows, and only a few years older than Zach right now!  NO, DARNOLD SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN STARTING WHEN HE CAME OUT AT 19 UNDER THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES!

c) Now Zach Wilson........... 1) came from a small school, and 2) played against weaker comp and that is why I wanted Justin Fields drafted by the Jets, but despite my preference, I fully acknowledge that Zach is extremely talented so I was Ok with the pick....

BUT POINTS 1 & 2 don't just disappear with the pick, IMO he should have sat at a minimum last year so that he could get his feet under him for this media market and fan base, and why I wanted Garner Minshew in here even this year so that he could be the stopgap along with Mike White until Wilson was ready and again the crazy folks said you cannot sit a QB drafted #2 and sit him.........and now Wilson looks like he too is unfortunately exploding and here is the kicker.... WILSON ENDED UP BEING SAT DOWN FOR THE VERY REASONS I STATED!

What is frustrating is that some of the same folks who derided me and others for saying sit these young QBs are the very same people now shouting the loudest about Zach is a bust, the worse QB in NFL history, and are in many cases advocating to do the same stupid thing over again yet with another victim to their madness  :) 

 

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4 minutes ago, undertow said:

Yes I too believe having someone do a job they are unprepared to do is an intelligent way to do business and sets everyone up for success....a matter of fact I'm about to hire a plumber who has no experience and just out of high school.

This is confirmation bias based on Zach's performance.  Does one ever give Andy Reid grief for SITTING Mahomes in year 1 or Sherman and McCarthy for sitting Rodgers his first three years vs. moving on from Favre sooner?  For all we know they were ready and were held back.  It's a crap shoot with these rookie QB's, a calculated gamble.  If the kid can play on his rookie deal, it gives GMs so much more leverage to throw money at free agents to win now.  The Bills, Chiefs, Eagles and Bengals hit paydirt.  JD gambled on Zach and lost...

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7 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

This is confirmation bias based on Zach's performance.  Does one ever give Andy Reid grief for SITTING Mahomes in year 1 or Sherman and McCarthy for sitting Rodgers his first three years vs. moving on from Favre sooner?  For all we know they were ready and were held back.  It's a crap shoot with these rookie QB's, a calculated gamble.  If the kid can play on his rookie deal, it gives GMs so much more leverage to throw money at free agents to win now.  The Bills, Chiefs, Eagles and Bengals hit paydirt.  JD gambled on Zach and lost...

I don't believe in a hard and fast rule I think every situation is unique and individual QBs are at a different level of being prepared.....just throwing guys out there on the field no matter what because it's the new trend and they will figure it out I think is dumb and lazy thinking....It's been obvious for over a year WIlson should have been nowhere near a field but you know the smart people wanted him throwing balls into the ground and running around in circles.

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