Jets plan to ‘do everything we can to develop’ Zach Wilson despite demotion

[Sonny Werblin]

3 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

1) Some people think the clean pocket numbers- which were good - are a better reflection of what young QBs will become.  
 

2) MLF and staff have not been spending time coaching fundamentals.  They are “too busy”.  

Mike McDaniel has killed Tua with concussions and probably ruined him.  But before that Tua was looking like a world beater.  Someone asked what was different and McDaniel said they have relentlessly been drilling on fundamentals.  Also that they have believed in him.  
 

 

Buckle up - we know at least someone sucks in the offensive equation for sure.  Lots of ways to break it down.  Could be everyone sucks.  Or just Zach sucks.  

There is also a real chance Zach can be good and the coaches are terrible. 

I agree that most of what ails Wilson is fixable. The problem that wilson has that is most likely not fixable is pocket awareness. Good QBs step up, left or right when they feel pressure. Wilson doesn’t feel the pressure which is why he’s taken some big hits standing in the pocket, but he does “see” pressure and feel hands on him. When this happens, he panics. I’m not sure how they fix this. In another thread i suggested Seal training to help him stay calm and think clearly under pressure, but perhaps you must already possess that quality to develop it?

[Sonny Werblin]

9 hours ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

I think it’s best to rid the team of the cancer. No one likes Zach. Take the cap hit and move on.  He hasn’t earned his roster spot. 
 

we will have plenty of money after we cut lawson and Cory Davis. Cutting these 2 gives you an extra 28 million to spend alone. And I can think of a few others that could be shown the door.

I guarantee their is not s guy on that team that dislikes him now. At this point they all feel sorry for him because they see every day that he is trying to improve, getting no results and is being shredded by the fans and media. 

[Augustiniak]

34 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Three things to note here:

1. Zach hasn’t just been an ineffective quarterback that needs coaching up—he’s been fundamentally terrible in a lot of red flag areas that suggest he’s never going to be good. Bottom line: he’s deeply impacted by pass rush pressure and he doesn’t see the field well at all. Tough combo to overcome. 
 

2. He has leadership/cultural issues dating back to BYU. His best friend on that team stole his girlfriend. The coaches made him a captain. This is a consistent drumbeat with him. 

3. Those who want to “develop” him are asking the Jets and LaFleur to spend another year running two different offenses—one for Zach (which everyone on the roster bristles at) and one for whoever the backup is (which the players like). 

There was a quote by Judon or another NE defender who said after one of the games, that when there’s a pass rush wilson puts his head down and looks at the rush rather than downfield at his wrs.  That says so much, that the defenders know that if they get near wilson he’s not going to stand and deliver the accurate pass.  And the jets coaches have coddled the hell out of him.  Like with becton, douglas swung for the fences and missed, but at least with becton, he can play at a good level when healthy.  

Odds are douglas trades wilson for a conditional pick in 2023 or 2024 and moves on b/c you can’t have this guy in the locker room anymore.  It’s not good for the team or for wilson.  

Off topic but i think becton is far less tradable b/c of the injuries, and if he enters training camp healthy i hope they have already drafted an OT and if they’re going to use becton it should be in a rotation with the hope they can get thru a season with him and reduce the strain on his lower half.  

[Bugg]

11 hours ago, Larz said:

Financially they really can’t move him or cut him.

As close to untradeable and valueless as could be. Could bring him to camp and leave him on the PS all year in hopes that some team is crazy enough to pick up this awful contract. 

[BurnleyJet]

We all know Wilson is done here, its fluff to justify the 2nd overall selection.

[Bronx]

50 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

His best friend on that team stole his girlfriend.

Tiny Sack?

[jgb]

Saleh is trying to sell a busted freezer at a garage sale by promising that it works like a charm 

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Bronx said:

Tiny Sack?

He will be wearing a BYU hat on vacation this summer 

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Three things to note here:

1. Zach hasn’t just been an ineffective quarterback that needs coaching up—he’s been fundamentally terrible in a lot of red flag areas that suggest he’s never going to be good. Bottom line: he’s deeply impacted by pass rush pressure and he doesn’t see the field well at all. Tough combo to overcome. 
 

2. He has leadership/cultural issues dating back to BYU. His best friend on that team stole his girlfriend. The coaches made him a captain. This is a consistent drumbeat with him. 

3. Those who want to “develop” him are asking the Jets and LaFleur to spend another year running two different offenses—one for Zach (which everyone on the roster bristles at) and one for whoever the backup is (which the players like). 

There are some other things to note though. 

-The AFC has the majority of superstar young QBs in the NFL (Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Trevor, Herbert, Lamar).

-The alternatives we're discussing for the Jets are guys like Gardner Minshew and Derek Carr.  Carr is going to make $40+M btw.

-As sh-tty as ZW has been (and you did a >great< job outlining it in your post), he's still only 23 years old.  And GMs were impressed with his ability enough that he was drafted #2 overall.

 

To me, if JD and RS believe he's fixable then I'm fine with giving it a shot.  What are we going to get for him anyway?  A day 3 pick and salary cap relief?  

[slats]

24 minutes ago, Bugg said:

As close to untradeable and valueless as could be. Could bring him to camp and leave him on the PS all year in hopes that some team is crazy enough to pick up this awful contract. 

On the contrary, his contract is not prohibitive, it adds trade value. The Jets would have to eat over $17M in dead money, but the team picking him up would be looking at cap hits of about $4M in 2023 and $6M in 2024. For a team that loved Zach pre-draft and just assumes that the Jets ****ed him up (probably not an uncommon thought around the league), that’s a deal. 
  
Letting a #2 overall go after just two years is uncommon, though, and not something they’re going to take lightly within the organization. However, trading him sooner does increase his value, and should be a catalyst to trade him sooner rather than later. 
 
If Douglas can’t get close to what he perceives as fair value for him, the possibility that he’s back for another season does exist. I think these comments from Saleh are a combination of propping up his trade value and giving his team’s toxic fan base the warning now that his time might not be up. 

[JetPotato]

One of two things is true, with 100% certainty:

1) Wilson is not fixable.

2) Wilson is fixable, and the current administration failed in every way possible during his "development" (which has actually been a regression).

I believe it's #1. 

Sorry, but there's no hybrid option. At least one of the QB and the coaching staff has to be moved on from as a result. I say Bye Zach!

[slats]

7 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Smh

They’ll pre-commit an entire franchise to piece of trash ZW before he accomplishes jack sh-t, but it’s “one day at a time” for 3rd class citizen MW who, in Saleh’s eyes, should be grateful to 1JD for every scrap he gets.

If they move on from MW favor of ZW, Saleh and ZW deserve each other

 

Sorry, but this is a ridiculous take. We’re talking about a QB who was knocked out of 2/3 starts last season and was available to the entire league for an offer sheet and a fifth round pick. Not one team even sniffed at that. This year, he’s beaten up again, and really doesn’t display any ability to protect himself. The Jets are just one of 32 teams that will be very hesitant to give White a starting QB contract over the winter. 
 
And before you bring up Zach, this has nothing to do with White vs. Wilson. He’s won that battle, perhaps permanently. But for the Jets, it’s going to be White vs. every QB available when it comes to paying one and penciling him in as their starter for next year. 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

If we win the next two games and make the playoffs that’s all we will need to hear about Zach. 

Best possible outcome.

[Warfish]

14 minutes ago, slats said:

….and giving his team’s toxic fan base the warning now that his time might not be up. 

So you agree with Zach’s Mom, that the problem isn’t Zach but our “toxic” fans that are the big problem, eh.

Was a pretty good post till I got to this line.

[Biggs]

I was a season ticket holder in AZ in Rosen's rookie year.  He has as much talent as Zach and he's smarter.  I don't think Zach can be salvaged here.  He needs to do a lot of growing up and sit behind a very good QB with a very good Offensive HC and under those circumstances the odds are low.   He doesn't have either of that here. 

[The Crusher]

8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Best possible outcome.

Exactly. Then the problem solves itself and  the team, coaching staff and front office has the goal they crave to focus on. Zach becomes the swing and a miss he likely is and like it always has “ winning cure all ills.” 

[Ron Rico]

17 minutes ago, slats said:

If Douglas can’t get close to what he perceives as fair value for him, the possibility that he’s back for another season does exist. 

Since I don't see a tenable way of parting ways, he'll be on the roster for 2023. Hopefully as a 3rd string QB, but...

If the Jets can screw this up (worse than it already is), they will. 

[slats]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So you agree with Zach’s Mom, that the problem isn’t Zach but our “toxic” fans that are the big problem, eh.

Was a pretty good post till I got to this line.

I was goofing on that line, you over-sensitive oaf. 

[Warfish]

Just now, slats said:

I was goofing on that line, you over-sensitive oaf. 

Lol

[BloodGreen]

I think trying to get the most out of the #2 overall QB pick is all that they can do. If you look at the position league wide there are really only about 6-8 teams that have a long term solution in place at the QB position.

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I agree that most of what ails Wilson is fixable. The problem that wilson has that is most likely not fixable is pocket awareness. Good QBs step up, left or right when they feel pressure. Wilson doesn’t feel the pressure which is why he’s taken some big hits standing in the pocket, but he does “see” pressure and feel hands on him. When this happens, he panics. I’m not sure how they fix this. In another thread i suggested Seal training to help him stay calm and think clearly under pressure, but perhaps you must already possess that quality to develop it?

Mike LeFleur in the draft room before Zach was drafted 

Mike LaFleur now in the wide receiver room. 

[bonkertons]

11 hours ago, Bronx said:

Just say "no comments" and keep it neutral. His lies will not increase Wilson’s value.

"No comment" doesn't keep it neutral though.  It implies you don't think he's the guy anymore but don't want to outright say it.  It just makes a bad situation works.  Whether you like it or not, this is how coaches and GMs speak.  They're not going to outright say "we don't see this guy in our future plans anymore".  It's just not going to happen, and "no comment" is basically as close as you can get to actually saying that sh*t.

[jgb]

15 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So you agree with Zach’s Mom, that the problem isn’t Zach but our “toxic” fans that are the big problem, eh.

Was a pretty good post till I got to this line.

Too be fair we have been existing and breathing in a noxious fart cloud for 11 years…

[TuscanyTile2]

 

Wayne Chrebet on Zach Wilson (starts at 3:01).  Not good news.

[VJphillyfan]

Window dressing.

 

the FO wants to save face and flip Wilson for a 2nd like they did with Sam.  They ain’t getting it

[hawk]

Good.  Develop him.  Maybe he will transition in time.  

JUST DONT HAND HIM QB1.  If he earns it great.  If he busts, let him fade away out of the spotlight.

[TNJet]

Sure he is our guy, thats why Saleh prefers him inactive when perfectly healthy.

[SoFlaJets]

Let's step into the old JN Time Machine and do a little necro-posting. This is what newly-hired Jets Head Coach Robert Saleh had to say about his (then) starting QB's Sam Darnold's situation going forward:                                                                                                                                                                                     

"What I can tell you about with regards to Sam is that he's got an unbelievable arm talent. There's a reason why he was the No. 3 pick in the draft.

"He's fearless in the pocket, he's got a natural throwing motion, he's mobile, he's extremely intelligent, and he's tough as nails. His reputation in the locker room is unquestioned. Just that in general. There's a reason why he was the third pick in the draft and you can see all those things on tape and around the building and in the way people speak about him." Saleh said.

 

[TNJet]

4 minutes ago, SoFlaJets said:

Let's step into the old JN Time Machine and do a little necro-posting. This is what newly-hired Jets Head Coach Robert Saleh had to say about his (then) starting QB's Sam Darnold's situation going forward:                                                                                                                                                                                     

"What I can tell you about with regards to Sam is that he's got an unbelievable arm talent. There's a reason why he was the No. 3 pick in the draft.

"He's fearless in the pocket, he's got a natural throwing motion, he's mobile, he's extremely intelligent, and he's tough as nails. His reputation in the locker room is unquestioned. Just that in general. There's a reason why he was the third pick in the draft and you can see all those things on tape and around the building and in the way people speak about him." Saleh said.

 

I miss Darnold. Never wanted to trade him, now thats a kid we gave up on too soon.

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

1) Some people think the clean pocket numbers- which were good - are a better reflection of what young QBs will become.  
 

2) MLF and staff have not been spending time coaching fundamentals.  They are “too busy”.  

Mike McDaniel has killed Tua with concussions and probably ruined him.  But before that Tua was looking like a world beater.  Someone asked what was different and McDaniel said they have relentlessly been drilling on fundamentals.  Also that they have believed in him.  
 

 

Buckle up - we know at least someone sucks in the offensive equation for sure.  Lots of ways to break it down.  Could be everyone sucks.  Or just Zach sucks.  

There is also a real chance Zach can be good and the coaches are terrible. 

RE: the “clean pocket” mirage. Zach is under pressure 40% of the time because he doesn’t seem to know what he’s doing and holds the ball endlessly. His QB rating on “clean pocket” throws is 101.2, 5 TDs, 1 INT. On the 40% of plays he’s under pressure, his rating drops to 18.6. It’d be one thing if those number were closer and it was just about bridging that divide, but this is really about taking a player and turning him into something he’s miles and miles away from being right now.

[playtowinthegame]

How about we swap Zach Wilson with Trey Lance? The 49ers seem to be good at making chicken salad out of chicken sh!t.

[TNJet]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

RE: the “clean pocket” mirage. Zach is under pressure 40% of the time because he doesn’t seem to know what he’s doing and holds the ball endlessly. His QB rating on “clean pocket” throws is 101.2, 5 TDs, 1 INT. On the 40% of plays he’s under pressure, his rating drops to 18.6. It’d be one thing if those number were closer and it was just about bridging that divide, but this is really about taking a player and turning him into something he’s miles and miles away from being right now.

He can't read a defense. Obvious the way he misses wide open wrs and never checks down, staring down the hot route only whilst throwing to it, in triple coverage no less. He's absolute garbage.

[jgb]

16 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

RE: the “clean pocket” mirage. Zach is under pressure 40% of the time because he doesn’t seem to know what he’s doing and holds the ball endlessly. His QB rating on “clean pocket” throws is 101.2, 5 TDs, 1 INT. On the 40% of plays he’s under pressure, his rating drops to 18.6. It’d be one thing if those number were closer and it was just about bridging that divide, but this is really about taking a player and turning him into something he’s miles and miles away from being right now.

What this stat says to me is he has a 101.2 rating when his first read blows his man up in the first 5 yards of the route.

[T0mShane]

45 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

 

Wayne Chrebet on Zach Wilson (starts at 3:01).  Not good news.

Good example of a guy who’s in the area and around the team talking to a guy who lives in Florida and is disconnected from the team. Chrebet kills Zach, Coles is saying “give him time.” Chrebet retorts that he was in the stadium looking at it with his own eyes, Coles says “we don’t know what’s going on in the locker room.” Pretty good encapsulation of the debate.

[Dunnie]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Good example of a guy who’s in the area and around the team talking to a guy who lives in Florida and is disconnected from the team. Chrebet kills Zach, Coles is saying “give him time.” Chrebet retorts that he was in the stadium looking at it with his own eyes, Coles says “we don’t know what’s going on in the locker room.” Pretty good encapsulation of the debate.

Laveranues was better. ?

Edited December 27, 2022 by Dunnie