Jets plan to ‘do everything we can to develop’ Zach Wilson despite demotion

[jgb]

52 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

The Jets are simply better offensively with White at quarterback than Wilson.

How stark is the difference?

Well, the Jets’ total yardage with White (421.3 per game) would rank first in the NFL. The Jets’ yardage with Wilson (269) would rank last. Wide receivers Garrett Wilson and Elijah Moore, both in on-field demeanor and words, have made it clear which quarterback they prefer.

Damn you LaFleur for being so selective with teh good plays.

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Rosen is in his 8th season and playing on a $46,000 contract with Minnesota. I know 22 year olds with no college who make more. Lucky for him that his career earnings are over $18 million.

Is he in the league?

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, TNJet said:

His 5th team in 4 years. Same as out pretty much.

Is he in the league?

[Sperm Edwards]

15 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

Yea we are stuck with him til June 1st unless we don't want to trade him and just designate him a June 1st cut.

I'd personally want to hold onto him, provided he doesn't lose the locker room.

 

15 hours ago, varjet said:

If the Jets decide that Mike White cannot be QB1 for the team next year, the Jets will have to sign QB1, and there will not be enough money for White.  So maybe Wilson is QB2/3.  That would not be great, but I don't know what the choice is.  I would rather roll with that than take the cap hit for getting rid of Wilson and not having the money for other players.  

 

14 hours ago, varjet said:

If the Jets want to be competitive they cannot trade him and take the cap hit.  So they basically have to pay his salary in 2023 to avoid the cap hit.  The Jets could move Darnold (a year later) because they were only paying Wilson and not a veteran QB.

I believe that the Zach Wilson raw material was grossly overestimated, but I also believe that Zach Wilson was grossly underdeveloped/coached.  Some of that is on Wilson, because I believe players need to hire their own offseason coaches under the new rules. 

I agree with Saleh that the Jets should continue to try and develop him, but he is not a fit with this team and fan base. Never was.  Tragically bad draft pick on all levels.  But he is somewhat of an asset that should be salvaged and not tossed.  

This isn't right. They save money by trading him: just under $4MM in 2023, and $6MM in 2024. He is more expensive to keep than he is to trade.

He is very trade-able, so long as there are buyers. It doesn't hurt the Jets' cap to trade him (other than the price of his replacement being more than it'd have been if Wilson had panned out already). 

The only way it's an outright greater expense to get rid of him is if he's cut: you still get the full cap hits plus the cost of his roster replacement (even a QB3). They're not going to do that.

[Sonny Werblin]

17 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Is he in the league?

I believe he is on the Vikings practice squad

[AZSOJ]

16 hours ago, Corn said:

Sit him down for minimally a year! third stringer onto all fundamentals are back footwork ,accuracy,quick read releasea nd good offensive line playalong with better play calling mix between run and pass.

Then trade them Like somebody else said Nobody's ever come back from that.

Did anyone every read the book on this kid per draft? here is an small exerpt from this Art: 

https://jetsxfactor.com/2022/12/26/jets-wrong-zach-wilson-evaluation/

On Wilson’s NFL.com predraft profile, he was listed as a prospect with boom-or-bust potential. His weaknesses included:

• Has tendency to over-stride and sail throws at times.
• Passed up on the easy throw to take the harder throw.
• Doesn’t work with enough anticipation as a passer.
• Ill-advised throws under pressure turned into interceptions in 2019.
• Will baby throws, forcing open receivers to break stride.

Sounds familiar?

Thes will not be fixed off season thet are ingrained into who he is as a QB... move the fk on please!

[Sonny Werblin]

I just realized that both Josh Rosen and Sam Darnold are only 25 years old. That just seems weird. It feels like they were drafted ages ago.

 

 

[AZSOJ]

1 minute ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I just realized that both Josh Rosen and Sam Darnold are only 25 years old. That just seems weird. It feels like they were drafted ages ago.

 

 

yes but Sam is playing mistake free ball... again...mistake free and like ZW when he was wining is leaning on his run game...but got to tell you some of the highlights he is making great throws... and decisions.  Maybe he is finally getting it... hope so got such a raw deal here. 

[varjet]

3 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I just realized that both Josh Rosen and Sam Darnold are only 25 years old. That just seems weird. It feels like they were drafted ages ago.

 

 

They both came out early to get paid earlier, when their consultants said that a QB desperate league would draft them high, particularly after guys like Watson and Mahomes made such an impact drafted outside the top 7.  

[varjet]

28 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

This isn't right. They save money by trading him: just under $4MM in 2023, and $6MM in 2024. He is more expensive to keep than he is to trade.

He is very trade-able, so long as there are buyers. It doesn't hurt the Jets' cap to trade him (other than the price of his replacement being more than it'd have been if Wilson had panned out already). 

The only way it's an outright greater expense to get rid of him is if he's cut: you still get the full cap hits plus the cost of his roster replacement (even a QB3). They're not going to do that.

Woody will want to trade him, because trading him will save Woody cash $ regardless of cap.

My understanding is that if even if Wilson was traded in 2023, if before June 1 his cap hit would be pretty difficult to bear if the Jets also had to pay a vet QB.  If, for example, the Jets were to sign White for a lower value, or even White and Minshew, maybe there is room to take the hit on Zach in 2023.  But if we had to pay Jimmy G or particularly Carr, that would be harder. 

[FootballLove]

3 hours ago, jgb said:

No one ever told me that 40 years in as a Jets fan and I’d still be “in the process.”

And yet, here we are. Sad really.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, varjet said:

Woody will want to trade him, because trading him will save Woody cash $ regardless of cap.

My understanding is that if even if Wilson was traded in 2023, if before June 1 his cap hit would be pretty difficult to bear if the Jets also had to pay a vet QB.  If, for example, the Jets were to sign White for a lower value, or even White and Minshew, maybe there is room to take the hit on Zach in 2023.  But if we had to pay Jimmy G or particularly Carr, that would be harder. 

Meh, I think you make too much about the first paragraph here, but I don't know the guy. You don't avoid paying payroll; all you do is pay one player instead of another. It doesn't really save him much of anything tbh because of the cap rules & CBA. 

If you want an explanation of why, I took an hour typing up an explanation & made a thread about it. It should only take an average person 5 hours to fully read one of my longer posts, so I think you can get through it in 4.

The short answer - and you know I despise a short answer - is if they don't pay his $9.3MM, by trading him, then it will clear $9.3MM from future cap. So $5MM more hits the 2024 cap than otherwise would have. BFD. OK, so structure the replacement QB's contract so $5.5MM more of it hits 2024 than you'd have otherwise had hit in 2023. Comes out to the same amount in the end. 

But it's more fun for me to write it out in ~2000 words. I know, it's an exciting life I lead. 

[bla bla bla]

8 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

This isn't right. They save money by trading him: just under $4MM in 2023, and $6MM in 2024. He is more expensive to keep than he is to trade.

He is very trade-able, so long as there are buyers. It doesn't hurt the Jets' cap to trade him (other than the price of his replacement being more than it'd have been if Wilson had panned out already). 

The only way it's an outright greater expense to get rid of him is if he's cut: you still get the full cap hits plus the cost of his roster replacement (even a QB3). They're not going to do that.

I think we are agreeing. We are stuck with Zach Wilson until at least June 1st because that's when his cap hit splits over 2 seasons, creating the savings you mentioned above.

We can trade him after that June 1st deadline, I'd prefer to do it after we fluff his value in preseason. His value is too low to trade before then.

We won't be able to get anything in this years draft though, unless the NFL allows designated June 1st trades for draft picks. 

[jgb]

14 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I just realized that both Josh Rosen and Sam Darnold are only 25 years old. That just seems weird. It feels like they were drafted ages ago.

 

 

Some day, many years from now, someone will say with complete earnestness — “Sam is only 35. Tom Brady was good until he was 45. Give him a chance.”

[Sperm Edwards]

6 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

I think we are agreeing. We are stuck with Zach Wilson until at least June 1st because that's when his cap hit splits over 2 seasons, creating the savings you mentioned above.

We can trade him after that June 1st deadline, I'd prefer to do it after we fluff his value in preseason. His value is too low to trade before then.

We won't be able to get anything in this years draft though, unless the NFL allows designated June 1st trades for draft picks. 

OK, I thought you were using June 1st because it spreads his $11MM dead cap over 2 seasons instead of all of it hitting in 2023. If it's to fluff him up a little, fine I guess.

I think his value is lower after the draft - after teams have already made their QB arrangements for the year & maybe for the longer future - but who knows. Even if the pick they get post-6/1 is a round higher, it'd be a full year later before they get that pick, making the trade value equal. (Trade value GMs typically use is this year's 4th rounder is worth a 3rd rounder next year & vice versa). If they trade him in March they could be getting a 2023 draft pick; trading him in/after June means the best they can get back is a 2024 draft pick, which is worth less if they didn't get a round-higher pick in return.

My "it makes no difference" response was only to illustrate the splitting up of the dead cap (when 6/1 is typically referenced) isn't important. Whatever they add to 2023 clears from 2024 so they can backload someone else's new contract instead of backloading ZW's dead cap. Adds up the same in the end.

[jgb]

38 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

OK, I thought you were using June 1st because it spreads his $11MM dead cap over 2 seasons instead of all of it hitting in 2023. If it's to fluff him up a little, fine I guess.

I think his value is lower after the draft - after teams have already made their QB arrangements for the year & maybe for the longer future - but who knows. Even if the pick they get post-6/1 is a round higher, it'd be a full year later before they get that pick, making the trade value equal. (Trade value GMs typically use is this year's 4th rounder is worth a 3rd rounder next year & vice versa). If they trade him in March they could be getting a 2023 draft pick; trading him in/after June means the best they can get back is a 2024 draft pick, which is worth less if they didn't get a round-higher pick in return.

My "it makes no difference" response was only to illustrate the splitting up of the dead cap (when 6/1 is typically referenced) isn't important. Whatever they add to 2023 clears from 2024 so they can backload someone else's new contract instead of backloading ZW's dead cap. Adds up the same in the end.

You are correct when the team has players worth extending! For the Macc years, ważny the case.

[Biggs]

16 hours ago, AZSOJ said:

yes but Sam is playing mistake free ball... again...mistake free and like ZW when he was wining is leaning on his run game...but got to tell you some of the highlights he is making great throws... and decisions.  Maybe he is finally getting it... hope so got such a raw deal here. 

Steve Wilks was a rookie HC matched with Rosen.  Wilks fought his way back and has a clue this time around.  He’s a great guy thrown into a terrible situation in AZ.  He’s probably a great match for Sam.   Very mature, no nonsense and a good communicator.

[Sonny Werblin]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Some day, many years from now, someone will say with complete earnestness — “Sam is only 35. Tom Brady was good until he was 45. Give him a chance.”

Brady also won his first SB at age 24

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Brady also won his first SB at age 24

People see similarities much easier than differences 

[Sonny Werblin]

I like the idea of the Jets conducting a grand experiment with Zach Wilson. Let's see what happens when a team rather than giving up on a QB and sending him away just moves him down the depth chart and works on him for a couple of years. Seriously, no one ever does this anymore. Perhaps the return on investment of sitting a young QB and making him earn a starting spot is better than the return on investment when you just insert the kid as the starter? I can not identify even one high end occupation where you throw someone to the wolves and say the best way to learn is to take your lumps. But, for some reason, that's what the geniuses in the NFL do all the time with QBs -- the most difficult position in all of organized sports.

[Dunnie]

I like the idea of the Jets conducting a grand experiment with Zach Wilson. Let's see what happens when a team rather than giving up on a QB and sending him away just moves him down the depth chart and works on him for a couple of years. Seriously, no one ever does this anymore. Perhaps the return on investment of sitting a young QB and making him earn a starting spot is better than the return on investment when you just insert the kid as the starter? I can not identify even one high end occupation where you throw someone to the wolves and say the best way to learn is to take your lumps. But, for some reason, that's what the geniuses in the NFL do all the time with QBs -- the most difficult position in all of organized sports.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Rangers9]

Why did Jets org start Zach from game 1 in his career if they saw in training camp weaknesses in his game, throwing, footwork and an inability to run offense. Now they’re saying he’s not capable of playing or even as a backup when team still in contention for a playoff spot. 

[THE BARON]

Nice coach speak, but wasted breath.  They wont get more than a 5th rounder for him.  

[Green Ghost]

2 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I like the idea of the Jets conducting a grand experiment with Zach Wilson. Let's see what happens when a team rather than giving up on a QB and sending him away just moves him down the depth chart and works on him for a couple of years. Seriously, no one ever does this anymore. Perhaps the return on investment of sitting a young QB and making him earn a starting spot is better than the return on investment when you just insert the kid as the starter? I can not identify even one high end occupation where you throw someone to the wolves and say the best way to learn is to take your lumps. But, for some reason, that's what the geniuses in the NFL do all the time with QBs -- the most difficult position in all of organized sports.

Although I agree with your point, It’s really not very complicated, it’s a combination of things which aren’t going to change in the near future.

1. the way rookie QBs are structured now. (Unless a team already has a superstar QB, they’re not paying a kid $30 mil to sit 4 years, and then give him a second contract)

2. A team that drafts a QB high in the 1st round is usually terrible. Most likely they also have a new GM or HC, and one or both are on a short leash. If they want to keep their jobs, they need to turn things around quickly.

These are the realities, they’re not an opinion.

[Dunnie]

58 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Why did Jets org start Zach from game 1 in his career if they saw in training camp weaknesses in his game, throwing, footwork and an inability to run offense. Now they’re saying he’s not capable of playing or even as a backup when team still in contention for a playoff spot. 

I can recall Mike LaFleur saying his coaching approach was .. "we're gonna let Zach be Zach'" ... That guy has to go. That's not coaching.

Edited December 28, 2022 by Dunnie

[chirorob]

On 12/27/2022 at 9:47 AM, FootballLove said:

Sit Zack his entire 3rd year, play him his entire 4th. It will work out one of two ways: Zack finally masters the game and we win, or Zack is still a total failure and hands us a young Manning in it the 2025 draft. Win Win!

There is no way the Manning family ever allows one of their own to be a Jet.

[jgb]

22 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

They save money by trading him:

[Rangers9]

In terms of whose fault is this Zach’s or the org and the CS. In spite of all of the incompetency I have to blame the player. If he’s a real leader and good football player you expect him to overcome all of the inefficiencies. 

[56mehl56]

2 hours ago, chirorob said:

There is no way the Manning family ever allows one of their own to be a Jet.

Good , Arch is a puss who was afraid to play in the SEC, wait till he transfers in 2025 from Tex when they move to the SEC.