Warfish Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 12 minutes ago, AFJF said: I'm right down the middle. I'm fine with cutting bait and moving on and I'm fine with giving him another year if the Jets brass feel he's worth it. On the one hand I think he's done. He's not the guy. With you so far.... 12 minutes ago, AFJF said: At the same time, if you can tie up a roster spot to develop Tony Adams and/or Jeremy Ruckert for a year, why can't you do it for a season of Zach as the QB3? Because QB is not a TE or an Olineman or a Special teamer. Like it or not, there are aspects involved with holding on to a failed top pick that is cancerous to the locker room and team chemistry. Teams, the media and the fanbase don't have civil wars when the #4 TE sits or is inactive. They do when it's the #2 overall pick. In a pure logic universe, I'd perhaps agree, keep Zach as the #3, see if he figures anything out sitting and watching in 2023. But we don't live in that world. We live in a world of humans, and internal pressures like Owners, scouts players and other staff, and external pressures like fans and beat writers, all looking to grind their own axes and flog their own agendas/fantasies/hopes. Whomever is our QB next year, they should not be worried a waffling front office of head coach will "give our #2 pick one more chance, lets see what we got" at the first interception. Pressure, not from competing and quality play, but pressure derived from expectations and draft position alone. For that reason, and my complete lack of belief that Zach will make history and turn it all around in a reasonable time, I move on ASAP from him. JMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 5 hours ago, Adoni Beast said: Haha exactly. I don’t think Zack Wilson will ever be a good starting or even backup QB. But there‘s no gain to cutting bait unless some team offered a decent return (which won’t happen). He’s not causing issues in the locker room and it would cost more to cut him than to keep him. You pray for a miracle and make him work. What we’re seeing is Aaron Rogers…if he started year 1 and 2 instead of sitting for 4 years. No, I’m not saying Wilson will be Rogers just that certain players need that time to really sit, learn, and develop. How in the world would anyone know how Aaron Rodgers would have played in any of those first few years that he was stuck behind Brett Favre? He might have been just as good as he was after Favre was out. Rodgers was forced to sit. We have no idea if that was a determining factor in his later success. I have no doubt that Zach would be better sitting on the bench for a few years than spending any time on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoni Beast Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, Coquito said: He's Rick Mirer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyT Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 Just corporate jargon. He is a master of deflecting. The organization knows that they have to move on. Zach is no longer a commodity that sells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoni Beast Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, Dcat said: How in the world would anyone know how Aaron Rodgers would have played in any of those first few years that he was stuck behind Brett Favre? He might have been just as good as he was after Favre was out. Rodgers was forced to sit. We have no idea if that was a determining factor in his later success. I have no doubt that Zach would be better sitting on the bench for a few years than spending any time on the field. Because there were reports that his immaturity that caused his draft slide were still present and he was terrible in practice. https://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/sports/football/the-education-of-the-packers-aaron-rodgers.html However after a couple seasons of developing it all turned around and into a hall of fame career. But if he started Day 1 I think it would have been a sh*t show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Warfish said: The depth Zach truthers will sink, already selling off 2023 and tearing apart the team, just to “see what we got” in Zach yet again? Hell no. I am not a "Zach truther" I prefer to start over at the QB position with White possibly, a veteran placeholder and rookie, and a new OC. I am commenting on what I think Woody and the Jets will do in my opinion, but not what I want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doitny Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 7 hours ago, AFJF said: Only part I disagree with is the trade aspect. I may be wrong, but I can't see anyone offering more than a day 3 pick. For that little, just keep working with him if you believe he can be salvaged. If they think he's poop...move on and hope you're not wrong. next year they have to bring in a QB1 or maybe White is that guy. either way you have to assume that they will have some sort of success that you will want to see a 2nd year. so if you sit Zach for 2023, and now you sit him for 2024 you get nothing. and if you try to trade him in 2024 with one year plus that costly extension your going to get a day 3 pick. but a late on at 6th or 7th rd. now in 2023 if you trade him you should get more. and earlier day 3 pick. what ever it is if your JD whoever you bring in to start for us next year you have to believe he is good enough to be our QB for the near future. good enough that your not going to want or even have a game so bad that Zach plays. cut him? no too big a cap hit but trade him now it will be the best offer we get. next year wont be as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted December 28, 2022 Author Share Posted December 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Warfish said: With you so far.... Because QB is not a TE or an Olineman or a Special teamer. Like it or not, there are aspects involved with holding on to a failed top pick that is cancerous to the locker room and team chemistry. Teams, the media and the fanbase don't have civil wars when the #4 TE sits or is inactive. They do when it's the #2 overall pick. In a pure logic universe, I'd perhaps agree, keep Zach as the #3, see if he figures anything out sitting and watching in 2023. But we don't live in that world. We live in a world of humans, and internal pressures like Owners, scouts players and other staff, and external pressures like fans and beat writers, all looking to grind their own axes and flog their own agendas/fantasies/hopes. Whomever is our QB next year, they should not be worried a waffling front office of head coach will "give our #2 pick one more chance, lets see what we got" at the first interception. Pressure, not from competing and quality play, but pressure derived from expectations and draft position alone. For that reason, and my complete lack of belief that Zach will make history and turn it all around in a reasonable time, I move on ASAP from him. JMO. Some good points that I agree with. Basically why I said go ahead and do it if the brass things he's worth it. "It" being all of the BS the comes keeping the no. 2 pick on the roster as the third quarterback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 8 hours ago, KRL said: As popular as it is to trash Wilson and to declare that he's done here I believe Saleh and expect him to get another shot in 2023. Thankfully we aren't DEN and haven't committed a ton of $$$ to the QB spot. I expect White to be re-signed (2 yrs / 12-15 million) and a training camp battle between he and Wilson Not a great year for QBs named "Wilson". But I agree that Denver is in worse shape at QB right now. I was about to say that maybe Denver is in better position because they might stink next year and be in position to draft a star QB from the 2023 draft (which I think is supposed to have another generational QB). Except Seattle has Denver's #1 (and #2) next year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Adoni Beast said: Because there were reports that his immaturity that caused his draft slide were still present and he was terrible in practice. https://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/sports/football/the-education-of-the-packers-aaron-rodgers.html However after a couple seasons of developing it all turned around and into a hall of fame career. But if he started Day 1 I think it would have been a sh*t show. Total speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsRay Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 9 hours ago, AFJF said: This is JMO of course, but hearing Saleh give an answer that wasn't the usual rehearsed coach BS was interesting. Paraphrasing, but he talked about how the words "time" and "development" are like oil and water in today's NFL. Not every guy develops at the same rate and expecting everyone to be a one or two year wonder isn't realistic. He said everyone wants you to develop players, but they don't want to allow the time to do it. Made me wonder if he really does want to give Zach more time to learn. Just look at the QB they're playing this week. A lot of us said the same things about Geno that we're now saying about Zach. Now I'm not saying we give Zach six or seven years. But is 3 or 4 the worst idea in the world? Saleh Comments Regarding Zach Could Offer Peek at Coaches Thought Process Moving Forward - JetNation.com (NY Jets Blog & Forum) Yes, yes, and yes!!! Nobody should be giving up on Wilson. Meanwhile, everybody should be hoping White takes off!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 9 hours ago, AFJF said: Made me wonder if he really does want to give Zach more time to learn. I think he’s being sincere. I think can want competence and to win now, while also wanting the best outcomes for every player on his roster. Hes not wrong at all. I think the situation is tobsnly a nightmare in-house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 10 hours ago, AFJF said: This is JMO of course, but hearing Saleh give an answer that wasn't the usual rehearsed coach BS was interesting. Paraphrasing, but he talked about how the words "time" and "development" are like oil and water in today's NFL. Not every guy develops at the same rate and expecting everyone to be a one or two year wonder isn't realistic. He said everyone wants you to develop players, but they don't want to allow the time to do it. Made me wonder if he really does want to give Zach more time to learn. Just look at the QB they're playing this week. A lot of us said the same things about Geno that we're now saying about Zach. Now I'm not saying we give Zach six or seven years. But is 3 or 4 the worst idea in the world? Saleh Comments Regarding Zach Could Offer Peek at Coaches Thought Process Moving Forward - JetNation.com (NY Jets Blog & Forum) i feel like you read my posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted December 28, 2022 Author Share Posted December 28, 2022 17 minutes ago, Paradis said: i feel like you read my posts. Hate to admit it but I'm so busy with real life and watching millions of hours of college football to read the forums all that much nowadays. Seems we agree on this though. Good stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 3 hours ago, AFJF said: Hate to admit it but I'm so busy with real life and watching millions of hours of college football to read the forums all that much nowadays. Seems we agree on this though. Good stuff. lol I was referring to the part about “why do players play so much better without ZW”.. I have been vocal about the same topic; the psychological impact of players that want to win and yet feel like they’re having make do with subpar play at QB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 8 hours ago, Dcat said: How in the world would anyone know how Aaron Rodgers would have played in any of those first few years that he was stuck behind Brett Favre? He might have been just as good as he was after Favre was out. Rodgers was forced to sit. We have no idea if that was a determining factor in his later success. I have no doubt that Zach would be better sitting on the bench for a few years than spending any time on the field. Too many confounding variables to likely ever know if sitting improves long-term success… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 6 hours ago, JetsRay said: Yes, yes, and yes!!! Nobody should be giving up on Wilson. Meanwhile, everybody should be hoping White takes off!!! Do you still think fans who are pessimistic on his future have the mentality of 3rd graders? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsRay Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 16 hours ago, jgb said: Do you still think fans who are pessimistic on his future have the mentality of 3rd graders? It's not the pessimism, it is the completely sophomoric drivel that makes them 3rd graders. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 6 hours ago, JetsRay said: It's not the pessimism, it is the completely sophomoric drivel that makes them 3rd graders. You mean, like name calling? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantasy Island Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 So in HS, Zach had a 41.0 yds per punt average (only 2 punts). Could we develop him as a punter? There has to be something he can do, right? And it would help with punt fakes. Rushing, not passing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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