Derek Carr benched and likely out in Las Vegas

[jgb]

5 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

I have been a big believer in Gardner Minshew but Derek Carr is better.  

I’d take either but Minshew will be plenty cheaper so that has to be weighed in also 

[Fantasy Island]

13 hours ago, jbt said:

Derek Carr sucks in cold weather

 

Zach Wilson sucks in all weather.

[jgb]

10 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

Zach Wilson sucks in all weather.

I wish we were as critical of our own QBs as other teams’. That we can both defend the league’s worst QB way too long but then nitpick a guy like Carr to death is an interesting study in human psychology.

[T0mShane]

5 hours ago, Dcat said:

Here is my prediction for Carr and Brady 2023: @T0mShane, Brady would never be a Jet:  Brady signs a 2 yr deal with the Raiders and Carr goes to Tampa Bay.

All seems the most likely. We feel destined to shoot for Garoppolo unless Belichick goes after him first

[usanyj]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

I wish we were as critical of our own QBs as other teams’. That we can both defend the league’s worst QB way too long but then nitpick a guy like Carr to death is an interesting study in human psychology.

We are entering a championship window next year… getting carr would move that goal along… yet people here want jacoby brisset and are convincing themselves a guy like carr, who would be the best qb we’ve had since Favre in 2008, is a scrub.

[usanyj]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

All seems the most likely. We feel destined to shoot for Garoppolo unless Belichick goes after him first

I’ve soured on Jimmy g… we have Jimmy g lite on mike white.

[BurnleyJet]

8 hours ago, T0mShane said:

All seems the most likely. We feel destined to shoot for Garoppolo unless Belichick goes after him first

The highest probability, I personally want MW to lead us to the playoffs and we sign him long term.

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, usanyj said:

We are entering a championship window next year… getting carr would move that goal along… yet people here want jacoby brisset and are convincing themselves a guy like carr, who would be the best qb we’ve had since Favre in 2008, is a scrub.

Probably some of it is emotional hedging because the Jets aren’t exactly known for landing the highly-coveted FAs. If that’s who we get, the same folks will be celebrating.

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

The highest probability, I personally want MW to lead us the the playoffs and we sign him long term.

Same but even then we need a legit QB2.

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, usanyj said:

I’ve soured on Jimmy g… we have Jimmy g lite on mike white.

Yeah… Jimmy would be the best QB on the roster but is the upgrade worth it for the price?

[T0mShane]

12 minutes ago, usanyj said:

I’ve soured on Jimmy g… we have Jimmy g lite on mike white.

 

12 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

The highest probability, I personally want MW to lead us the the playoffs and we sign him long term.

It would be amazing for White (and LaFleur) to go on a little run here and save the Jets around $100 mil in QB spend.

[Gastineau Lives]

All you have to do is last 120 minutes without breaking and you’re the quarterback next year!

Do I need to score touchdowns?

Two. But at least eleven field goals.

I think I can do that!

Great, I’ll print the T-shirts.

[varjet]

We have seen this movie before.   No top-ish QB will choose us. All of the Woody nonsense dribbling out only perpetuate the perception of dysfunction.  Anybody we sign will be overpaid.  
 

if MGW delivers the next two weeks the Jets should look him up with a moderate overpay and move forward.  Draft more QBs. 

[TuscanyTile2]

Just now, varjet said:

We have seen this movie before.   No too-ish QB will choose us. All of the Woody nonsense dribbling out only perpetuate the perception of dysfunction.  Anybody we sign will be overpaid.  
 

if MGW delivers the next two weeks the Jets should look him up with a moderate overpay and move forward.  Draft more QBs. 

Agree.  If MFW looks solid these next 2 weeks then I think we should move forward with him as the guy.  (Unless maybe we can get Aaron Rodgers.  If we get TB12, btw, I think we might still be able to keep MFW).

[usanyj]

23 minutes ago, varjet said:

We have seen this movie before.   No top-ish QB will choose us. All of the Woody nonsense dribbling out only perpetuate the perception of dysfunction.  Anybody we sign will be overpaid.  
 

if MGW delivers the next two weeks the Jets should look him up with a moderate overpay and move forward.  Draft more QBs. 

I just don’t see saleh and JD, who’s jobs are likely on the line next year, going to war and banking on white being qb1

[BCJet]

I personally think I prefer Minshew as he is a younger and cheaper option then Carr, however in reading some of the articles last night, I found the below stats about just how bad the Raiders organization has been around Carr.  Now its tough to put this year behind us as he threw some downright horrible Ints, however he was in a terrible offense that has become out dated in today's NFL and does not fit his skill set.  He will be 32 on opening day so realistically he has about 3-4 years max which isnt great but looking at his numbers when he had a running game, coupled with this offense which should allow him to really move the ball with easier completions then the earnhardt-perkins system mcdaniels forced on him, I think he becomes a very realistic option.

 

Raiders' draft history

2021: Alex Leatherwood (gone), Trevon Moehrig (80th/85 safeties by PFF grade in 2022)

2020: Henry Ruggs, Damon Arnette, Lynn Bowden, Bryan Edwards, Tanner Muse (ALL GONE)

2019: Clelin Ferrell (bust), Josh Jacobs (one good year, 2022), Johnathan Abram (bust)

Also had Maxx Crosby and Hunter Renfrow to be fair!

2018: Kolton Miller (good), Brandon Parker (One of the worst tackles in football)

2017: Gareon Conley (bust)…no one else remaining on the roster.

2016: Karl Joseph (bust), Jihad Ward (Off team after 2 years), Shilique Calhoun

2015: Amari Cooper (TRADED), Mario Edwards (Off team after 2 seasons played)

2014: Khalil Mack (TRADED).

2013: Zero hits on 10 picks unless you count Latavius Murray in Round 6

Derek Carr’s WR1s by year

2022: Davante Adams 

2021: Hunter Renfrow

2020: Eagles First-Round Bust Nelson Agholor

2019: Tyrell Williams

2018: Final-Season Jordy Nelson

2017: Amari Cooper with 680 yards

2016: Amari Cooper, Michael Crabtree both over 1K yards. Carr finished 3rd in MVP voting

2015: Amari Cooper with 1070 yards

2014: Andre Holmes with 693 yards

Raiders rushing offense ranks by year:

2022: 24

2021: 28

2020: 14 (Carr records a career-high 101.4 passer rating)

2019: 13

2018: 25

2017: 25

2016: 6 (Raiders go 12-4, Carr is 3rd in MVP voting)

2015: 28

2014: 32

[Augustiniak]

18 minutes ago, usanyj said:

I just don’t see saleh and JD, who’s jobs are likely on the line next year, going to war and banking on white being qb1

Yet i can’t see them banking on jimmy g with his injury history either.  

Truth, i don’t think we’ll have a read on white until we see what happens in these last 2 games.  He has to play well and stay healthy.  

[usanyj]

7 minutes ago, BCJet said:

I personally think I prefer Minshew as he is a younger and cheaper option then Carr, however in reading some of the articles last night, I found the below stats about just how bad the Raiders organization has been around Carr.  Now its tough to put this year behind us as he threw some downright horrible Ints, however he was in a terrible offense that has become out dated in today's NFL and does not fit his skill set.  He will be 32 on opening day so realistically he has about 3-4 years max which isnt great but looking at his numbers when he had a running game, coupled with this offense which should allow him to really move the ball with easier completions then the earnhardt-perkins system mcdaniels forced on him, I think he becomes a very realistic option.

 

Raiders' draft history

2021: Alex Leatherwood (gone), Trevon Moehrig (80th/85 safeties by PFF grade in 2022)

2020: Henry Ruggs, Damon Arnette, Lynn Bowden, Bryan Edwards, Tanner Muse (ALL GONE)

2019: Clelin Ferrell (bust), Josh Jacobs (one good year, 2022), Johnathan Abram (bust)

Also had Maxx Crosby and Hunter Renfrow to be fair!

2018: Kolton Miller (good), Brandon Parker (One of the worst tackles in football)

2017: Gareon Conley (bust)…no one else remaining on the roster.

2016: Karl Joseph (bust), Jihad Ward (Off team after 2 years), Shilique Calhoun

2015: Amari Cooper (TRADED), Mario Edwards (Off team after 2 seasons played)

2014: Khalil Mack (TRADED).

2013: Zero hits on 10 picks unless you count Latavius Murray in Round 6

Derek Carr’s WR1s by year

2022: Davante Adams 

2021: Hunter Renfrow

2020: Eagles First-Round Bust Nelson Agholor

2019: Tyrell Williams

2018: Final-Season Jordy Nelson

2017: Amari Cooper with 680 yards

2016: Amari Cooper, Michael Crabtree both over 1K yards. Carr finished 3rd in MVP voting

2015: Amari Cooper with 1070 yards

2014: Andre Holmes with 693 yards

Raiders rushing offense ranks by year:

2022: 24

2021: 28

2020: 14 (Carr records a career-high 101.4 passer rating)

2019: 13

2018: 25

2017: 25

2016: 6 (Raiders go 12-4, Carr is 3rd in MVP voting)

2015: 28

2014: 32

Can’t forget he’s had terrible defenses on this team as well… give him our young weapons and a top 5 defense, and I believe we have something with him.

[JoJoTownsell1]

3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Yet i can’t see them banking on jimmy g with his injury history either.  

Truth, i don’t think we’ll have a read on white until we see what happens in these last 2 games.  He has to play well and stay healthy.  

Jimmy g is really bad.  He's just a glorified back up. 

Ideal situation is White plays well,  he goes into next year as our QB and we draft a QB late in the first or second to develop. 

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, usanyj said:

We are entering a championship window next year… getting carr would move that goal along… yet people here want jacoby brisset and are convincing themselves a guy like carr, who would be the best qb we’ve had since Favre in 2008, is a scrub.

This is what I don't understand.  Even if he's an upgrade, does that move us closer to a championship?  Maybe I'm wrong but he just doesn't feel like a championship caliber QB to me.  I feel like he's good enough to get us to a wildcard or divisional round before getting ousted. 

If we really think the championship window is open next year (with a good QB), I'd rather take my chances with a guy like TB12 or Aaron Rodgers.  (And I definitely want to bring back MFW.)

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Jimmy g is really bad.  He's just a glorified back up. 

Ideal situation is White plays well,  he goes into next year as our QB and we draft a QB late in the first or second to develop. 

I think next year is supposed to be a great QB draft.  At least Caleb Williams (of USC) is supposed to be great.  Doubt we'll be in any position to draft him, though.  Of course!!!

[PepPep]

8 hours ago, Pac said:

I still have yet to hear a reason why the Raiders might be willing to part with a "top 15 QB" with no other QB on the roster and without a pick high enough to get a top QB. 

Give me a break. 

Many have mentioned why. 
1. Carr has an out in his contract. The raiders can cut him with very little dead money this year. Otherwise they will be locked in for a few more years to him for big money. Moving on might make a ton of sense. 
2. The Raiders made the playoffs last years. Expectations were massive this year and this team played considerably worse- for a number of reasons. 
3. Carr has never won anything substantial with the Raiders. Despite being a very good QB. 
4. The Raiders ARE bad enough to get a very talented developmental QB. Maybe not one of the top 2 QBs. But a top 5 QB. They will probably be selecting, what, just outside the top 10? 
5. See above. The Raiders are bad enough that they may need a reset. It’s possible a number of vets are on the chopping block.

There are a number of scenarios where it’s highly unlikely that teams will part with their starting QBs. THIS is not one of them. 

[TuscanyTile2]

3 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Many have mentioned why. 
1. Carr has an out in his contract. The raiders can cut him with very little dead money this year. Otherwise they will be locked in for a few more years to him for big money. Moving on might make a ton of sense. 
2. The Raiders made the playoffs last years. Expectations were massive this year and this team played considerably worse- for a number of reasons. 
3. Carr has never won anything substantial with the Raiders. Despite being a very good QB. 
4. The Raiders ARE bad enough to get a very talented developmental QB. Maybe not one of the top 2 QBs. But a top 5 QB. They will probably be selecting, what, just outside the top 10? 
5. See above. The Raiders are bad enough that they may need a reset. It’s possible a number of vets are on the chopping block.

There are a number of scenarios where it’s highly unlikely that teams will part with their starting QBs. THIS is not one of them. 

If Carr was so good, wouldn't they just try to trade him?  If the complaint is that he costs too much then isn't that saying he's not worth it?  But we're supposed to overpay him?

[slats]

I think the only thing I’d really like about the Jets signing Derek Carr after the Raiders cut him would be when @Raideraholic comes in here to tell us how much he sucks. 

[PepPep]

4 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

This is what I don't understand.  Even if he's an upgrade, does that move us closer to a championship?  Maybe I'm wrong but he just doesn't feel like a championship caliber QB to me.  I feel like he's good enough to get us to a wildcard or divisional round before getting ousted. 

If we really think the championship window is open next year (with a good QB), I'd rather take my chances with a guy like TB12 or Aaron Rodgers.  (And I definitely want to bring back MFW.)

I mean I think at this point you are splitting hairs. TB12 and Rodgers are certainly on the table. Carr, with this defense, could certainly get us over the hump. It’s not like grocery shopping. You can’t just pick whoever you want. If Carr can get us to the AFCCG, good enough and I’m crossing my fingers that our defense is good enough to help him get the W. 
 

We just have to get there and get there healthy. And if we have a qb like Carr (or Brady or Rodgers, etc), anything can happen. 

[Titan24]

16 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Guys who are career losers and getting benched by the Raiders and people on this board are fawning over them.  HAHAHAHAAHAHA.

Joe D would never under any circumstances bring in a scrub like derek carr to qb this team.

Well to be fair JD did bring in Zach Wilson to QB this team, who may be the worst man under center I’ve ever seen. 

[TuscanyTile2]

10 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Jimmy g is really bad.  He's just a glorified back up. 

Ideal situation is White plays well,  he goes into next year as our QB and we draft a QB late in the first or second to develop. 

I've changed my opinion on Jimmy G several times.  I do think he's probably better than he's been given credit for but he's also injury-prone.  How do we go into next year with any expectations of winning, while paying a fortune for an injury-prone QB?  It just doesn't add up.

Carr is an uninspiring choice too though.  But as I've said before, I guess these are the types of guys we're going to have to talk ourselves into because we missed out on Trevor.  

[PepPep]

4 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

If Carr was so good, wouldn't they just try to trade him?  If the complaint is that he costs too much then isn't that saying he's not worth it?  But we're supposed to overpay him?

That’s the thing. They will try to trade him rather than flat out cutting him. The hope is that the ask in a trade won’t be too much because they are between a brick and hard place sort of speak. 
 

I think you’re overthinking it and sounds like at this point you are just trying to argue with me. It’s fine if you don’t like Carr and don’t want him to be the Jets QB. But nobody can argue that he won’t be a massive upgrade and that the Raiders are on the outs with him. It’s clear as day. 

[Titan24]

8 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

If Carr was so good, wouldn't they just try to trade him?  If the complaint is that he costs too much then isn't that saying he's not worth it?  But we're supposed to overpay him?

Who’s saying they won’t? You don’t think teams like Indy, TB, NO, Wash, maybe even the Pats aren’t gonna be all over this during the off-season?
 

cmon

[Creepy Lurker]

15 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I think next year is supposed to be a great QB draft.  At least Caleb Williams (of USC) is supposed to be great.  Doubt we'll be in any position to draft him, though.  Of course!!!

NO USC QBs!!!!!!

[TuscanyTile2]

4 minutes ago, PepPep said:

I mean I think at this point you are splitting hairs. TB12 and Rodgers are certainly on the table. Carr, with this defense, could certainly get us over the hump. It’s not like grocery shopping. You can’t just pick whoever you want. If Carr can get us to the AFCCG, good enough and I’m crossing my fingers that our defense is good enough to help him get the W. 
 

We just have to get there and get there healthy. And if we have a qb like Carr (or Brady or Rodgers, etc), anything can happen. 

I guess I'm just not a believer that Carr can get this team over the hump (whereas I do think TB12 or Rodgers could).

I realize we can't just pick who we want.  But I feel like the next 2 years are going to be our best opportunity to try to win a title (though I realize it might be a complete pipedream), because our young players aren't getting paid yet.  Derek Carr feels like kind of a lame attempt at it.  TB12 or Aaron Rodgers would feel like we're at least making a serious attempt.

[Augustiniak]

19 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

This is what I don't understand.  Even if he's an upgrade, does that move us closer to a championship?  Maybe I'm wrong but he just doesn't feel like a championship caliber QB to me.  I feel like he's good enough to get us to a wildcard or divisional round before getting ousted. 

If we really think the championship window is open next year (with a good QB), I'd rather take my chances with a guy like TB12 or Aaron Rodgers.  (And I definitely want to bring back MFW.)

I think if you’re saleh and douglas you’re thinking playoffs.  

[Augustiniak]

21 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Jimmy g is really bad.  He's just a glorified back up. 

Ideal situation is White plays well,  he goes into next year as our QB and we draft a QB late in the first or second to develop. 

I can’t see douglas using a 1st or 2nd rounder on a qb now.  His best bet to keep his job and get to the playoffs is to have white compete with a vet and keep stacking the OL and DL.  

[TuscanyTile2]

9 minutes ago, PepPep said:

That’s the thing. They will try to trade him rather than flat out cutting him. The hope is that the ask in a trade won’t be too much because they are between a brick and hard place sort of speak. 
 

I think you’re overthinking it and sounds like at this point you are just trying to argue with me. It’s fine if you don’t like Carr and don’t want him to be the Jets QB. But nobody can argue that he won’t be a massive upgrade and that the Raiders are on the outs with him. It’s clear as day. 

I swear I'm not being argumentative just to be that way.   As I mentioned above, we don't have to pay our star young players for another 1-2 years so we have an opportunity here.  I don't want to waste it on Derek Carr.  But I've been wrong plenty of times before so maybe I'll be wrong on him too.  If JD brings him in, I'll root for him.

 

5 minutes ago, Titan24 said:

Who’s saying they won’t? You don’t think teams like Indy, TB, NO, Wash, maybe even the Pats aren’t gonna be all over this during the off-season?
 

cmon

Isn't the talk that they're going to cut him though?  

[Creepy Lurker]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I guess I'm just not a believer that Carr can get this team over the hump (whereas I do think TB12 or Rodgers could).

I realize we can't just pick who we want.  But I feel like the next 2 years are going to be our best opportunity to try to win a title (though I realize it might be a complete pipedream), because our young players aren't getting paid yet.  Derek Carr feels like kind of a lame attempt at it.  TB12 or Aaron Rodgers would feel like we're at least making a serious attempt.

IF Mike White plays well the next 2 games and stays healthy, he is the perfect bridge QB until our young superstar rookies need to be resigned. At that point, you either have a young QB in development on a rookie deal or you draft one to a very solid team to develop and still be competitive while taking advantage of the rookie QB contract window.  This is assuming that Mike White isn’t great and is the LONG term starter at QB.