Derek Carr benched and likely out in Las Vegas

[usanyj]

19 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

This is what I don't understand.  Even if he's an upgrade, does that move us closer to a championship?  Maybe I'm wrong but he just doesn't feel like a championship caliber QB to me.  I feel like he's good enough to get us to a wildcard or divisional round before getting ousted. 

If we really think the championship window is open next year (with a good QB), I'd rather take my chances with a guy like TB12 or Aaron Rodgers.  (And I definitely want to bring back MFW.)

I think you’d have to look at carr as the next stafford. I think you could say the same thing about stafford when he was moved to the rams. What has he done? He was 0-3 in the playoffs with the lions, he isn’t a winner… sometimes you need a change of scenery and a different franchise… the raiders have been bad for a good part of his time there, yet he has put up 65% comp, 217 tds and 99 ints… they have averaged the 32nd defense in his time there. I think if he goes to a team with a mid level defense and a few weapons he’s the next stafford… the jets have solid young weapons and a top 5 defense.

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

I think if you’re saleh and douglas you’re thinking playoffs.  

Makes sense that they would since they'll probably both be on the hot seat if they don't make it to the postseason next year.   I just hope they'll "swing big" and go for a QB with a higher-ceiling than Carr.

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, usanyj said:

I think you’d have to look at carr as the next stafford. I think you could say the same thing about stafford when he was moved to the rams. What has he done? He was 0-3 in the playoffs with the lions, he isn’t a winner… sometimes you need a change of scenery and a different franchise… the raiders have been bad for a good part of his time there, yet he has put up 65% comp, 217 tds and 99 ints… they have averaged the 32nd defense in his time there. I think if he goes to a team with a mid level defense and a few weapons he’s the next stafford… the jets have solid young weapons and a top 5 defense.

I liked the Stafford trade for the Rams at the time.  Carr just doesn't seem like "the guy" to me.  But I will certainly try to convince myself of what you're saying if JD does go in that direction.   

[Titan24]

5 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I swear I'm not being argumentative just to be that way.   As I mentioned above, we don't have to pay our star young players for another 1-2 years so we have an opportunity here.  I don't want to waste it on Derek Carr.  But I've been wrong plenty of times before so maybe I'll be wrong on him too.  If JD brings him in, I'll root for him.

 

Isn't the talk that they're going to cut him though?  

Possibly, he does have full no trade which could force their hand.  He may be at a point where winning is the goal.  In that case not sure there is a better fit than here.

[JoJoTownsell1]

7 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

I can’t see douglas using a 1st or 2nd rounder on a qb now.  His best bet to keep his job and get to the playoffs is to have white compete with a vet and keep stacking the OL and DL.  

JDs job is way safer than some here like to believe.  This team has tons of young studs. Even Woody isn't dumb enough to let him go and bring in someone new who may be idzik or macc types.

[Titan24]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I liked the Stafford trade for the Rams at the time.  Carr just doesn't seem like "the guy" to me.  But I will certainly try to convince myself of what you're saying if JD does go in that direction.   

I’m kinda in same boat, not a huge fan and who knows w Mike White maybe there is something there very possible.

However thinking about it……if Carr was QB for this team right now for the entire year……are they 7-8? I don’t think so….would be looking at playoff seeding and matchups instead of sweating it out.

 

[usanyj]

8 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I swear I'm not being argumentative just to be that way.   As I mentioned above, we don't have to pay our star young players for another 1-2 years so we have an opportunity here.  I don't want to waste it on Derek Carr.  But I've been wrong plenty of times before so maybe I'll be wrong on him too.  If JD brings him in, I'll root for him.

 

Isn't the talk that they're going to cut him though?  

Yeah there is talk of cutting him because something in his contract kicks in on Feb 5th if I’m not mistaken. So if they can’t trade him by then, they would cut him to save money.

im sure the raiders are hoping a team will say “screw it” and give them some picks for him to ensure they get him. But the logical take would be to wait til he’s cut and sign him for a more team friendly deal and keep capital… just can’t trust a guy like irsay for example to not just throw stuff at the raiders.

funny thing is carr has a full no trade, so maybe he denies a trade and forces the raiders to cut him so he can control his journey.

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

JDs job is way safer than some here like to believe.  This team has tons of young studs. Even Woody isn't dumb enough to let him go and bring in someone new who may be idzik or macc types.

Still, JD may think his best path to the playoffs is to just keep adding talent, non qb talent, that can play sooner than later.  There’s no rush to draft a qb this year if they keep white and add a guy like carr.  They can draft one in 2024.

[Augustiniak]

10 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Makes sense that they would since they'll probably both be on the hot seat if they don't make it to the postseason next year.   I just hope they'll "swing big" and go for a QB with a higher-ceiling than Carr.

There may not be any.

[varjet]

34 minutes ago, PepPep said:

We just have to get there and get there healthy. And if we have a qb like Carr (or Brady or Rodgers, etc), anything can happen. 

Brady/Rodgers would fit the Jetsy/Woody pattern.  We can overpay to get them, they are somewhat washed up, and it would generate a lot of press. 
 

Cousins ran from the Jets.  No one with a future will voluntarily sign up for this until the owner is replaced. 

[TuscanyTile2]

9 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

There may not be any.

It's a tough reality to deal with but you're absolutely right.  Carr might be the best we can realistically do, in terms of acquiring a QB from outside the organization.

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, varjet said:

Brady/Rodgers would fit the Jetsy/Woody pattern.  We can overpay to get them, they are somewhat washed up, and it would generate a lot of press. 
 

Cousins ran from the Jets.  No one with a future will voluntarily sign up for this until the owner is replaced. 

They're both old but I'm not sure either is washed up (though there's always the fear it can happen any time - look at Russell Wilson).

TB12 is a UFA btw so he'd only cost money.  We'd have to trade for Rodgers.

[Barry McCockinner]

10 minutes ago, varjet said:

Brady/Rodgers would fit the Jetsy/Woody pattern.  We can overpay to get them, they are somewhat washed up, and it would generate a lot of press. 
 

Cousins ran from the Jets.  No one with a future will voluntarily sign up for this until the owner is replaced. 

I see the jets as a QB friendly destination right now.

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I see the jets as a QB friendly destination right now.

Especially with another good FA and draft, the team would also be getting avt and breece back.  The qb would have a nice team around him and a defense that would help.

[bonkertons]

Really for me it's either Carr or White.  If White looks great these next two weeks, he's my guy.  At least for 2023-24.  We'll still need to bring in a solid backup like a Minshew-type for insurance, but still.  White will have done enough in my mind to earn that shot.  The guys love him and there's something to be said for a QB who has proven he can play well here in this market.  

 

If he doesn't though, or if he goes down hurt again, then yeah I go for Carr - at least if he's cut.  He's easily the best outside option available.  Jimmy is just not good enough, IMO.  Rodgers will be too expensive and has - what - 2 more years of quality play left?  If we're lucky?  Lamar is a massive roll of the dice.  Paying that price(I'm assuming you're looking at a price similar to what Denver paid for Russell Wilson) for a guy who lives and dies by his legs.....that's risky as hell.  Could win us a Super Bowl or it could set this franchise back a decade.

 

So yeah, in my mind it's White vs Carr.  Anyone sh*tting on Carr is quite the picky mother****er, considering our QB struggles.  There's something about White though....really think this dude can be special, and I'd rather know he isn't before moving on from him.

[Jdub03]

Taking a look at this list of QBs, how many Qbs would you want over him? I think he's in the 10-15 range for most people. Insert a fringe top 10 guy on this team, and we can do some damage.  I get wanting a top guy, but they don't become available. Carr could be a good short-term option while we draft and develop a qb in the background. 

Not sure you can bring in Carr and MFW, unless White knows and accepts that he's the backup. Let's hope MFW makes this a nonfactor by balling out these next few weeks. I'd like to give him the opportunity to start next year depending on how he finishes the season.

[RutgersJetFan]

He's from Bakersfield. Anyone ever met someone from Bakersfield that moved to the Northeast and handled it well? No, no you have not. Place is a black hole of weirdos.

[Barry McCockinner]

5 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

He's from Bakersfield. Anyone ever met someone from Bakersfield that moved to the Northeast and handled it well? No, no you have not. Place is a black hole of weirdos.

I know you're just being sarcastic but as someone who wants Carr on the jets him playing in the northeast is the one concern I have about him. His cold weather game stats are pretty rough.

 

[Jetsfan80]

17 hours ago, BurntDice said:

The D also let them drive down to the 1. A zach led offense has very little chance when their back is against the wall. Comparing Zach to white is like comparing a piece of sh*t with flies and maggots in it to a fresh piece of sh*t. Is one better? Sure, but they are both terrible 

Except by every metric Mike White has not been “terrible” but you keep on believing that to your little heart’s content.

[Jetsfan80]

17 hours ago, rldev said:

Which was a direct result of the defense giving up a 96 yard drive the previous possession.  Two can play this game. 

Teams move the ball and score points in this league.  The defense allowed just 13 points against a very good offense.

They did their part that day.  When did Zach ever do his?

[RutgersJetFan]

6 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I know you're just being sarcastic but as someone who wants Carr on the jets him playing in the northeast is the one concern I have about him. His cold weather game stats are pretty rough.

 

I'm quite serious. The only people that go to Bakersfield are people unfortunate enough to be born there and people that are passing through it off the 5. The whole town and vibe is like people from The Hills Have Eyes. Sending Carr to live in NY or NJ would be like like that scene in Congo where Amy tries to talk to the regular gorillas. 

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Teams move the ball and score points in this league.  The defense allowed just 13 points against a very good offense.

They did their part that day.  When did Zach ever do his?

The only future I care about for BYU is what JD can get in trade for him.

[TuscanyTile2]

Just now, jgb said:

The only future I care about for BYU is what JD can get in trade for him.

Kidding. 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2526520-the-true-story-of-tim-fortugno-the-man-once-traded-for-a-bucket-of-baseballs

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Agree.  If MFW looks solid these next 2 weeks then I think we should move forward with him as the guy.  (Unless maybe we can get Aaron Rodgers.  If we get TB12, btw, I think we might still be able to keep MFW).

What’s the point of that? And why would White sign with the Jets to play behind Brady? 

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

What’s the point of that? And why would White sign with the Jets to play behind Brady? 

I just don't want to give up on MFW. 

[Sonny Werblin]

19 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Maybe LV wants him out and off the books .. so might eat half that 40mill ?

D Carr
G Minshew
Z Wilson

QB room could be worse.



 

Eat half? Carr's cap hit in 2023 is $34,875,000. If they cut Carr after june 1, 2023 their 2023 cap savings is $33,000,000 with a 2023 dead cap of $1,875,000 and a 2024 dead cap of $3,750,000.  Why in the world would they eat half of his contract when they can get out of paying all of it in exchange for a nominal cap hit? PP

POST-6/1 RELEASE
2023 Dead Cap: $1,875,000
2024 Dead Cap: $3,750,000
2023 Cap Savings: $33,000,000ST-6/1 RELEASE
2023 Dead Cap: $1,875,000 Dead Cap: $3,750,000
2023 Cap Savings: $33,000,000OPOST

[undertow]

The dumbest narrative I see getting throwing around is that Carr would be the best QB we have had since Namath....clearly coming from people who don't watch these games and think NFL stats mean the same as they did 20 years ago.

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Kidding. 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2526520-the-true-story-of-tim-fortugno-the-man-once-traded-for-a-bucket-of-baseballs

I’ll actually be pleased if we break even in draft capital. I sense the deal could be we trade like a 6th and Wilson for a 7th that could elevate to a 5th if conditions are met… 

[Dunnie]

8 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Eat half? Carr's cap hit in 2023 is $34,875,000. If they cut Carr after june 1, 2023 their 2023 cap savings is $33,000,000 with a 2023 dead cap of $1,875,000 and a 2024 dead cap of $3,750,000.  Why in the world would they eat half of his contract when they can get out of paying all of it in exchange for a nominal cap hit? PP

POST-6/1 RELEASE
2023 Dead Cap: $1,875,000
2024 Dead Cap: $3,750,000
2023 Cap Savings: $33,000,000ST-6/1 RELEASE
2023 Dead Cap: $1,875,000 Dead Cap: $3,750,000
2023 Cap Savings: $33,000,000OPOST

So there will be a shark frenzy after he is released.

[Sonny Werblin]

3 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

So there will be a shark frenzy after he is released.

He will have his suitors. As this board has revealed people are either Hot or Cold on Carr. My bet is on the Bucs and Raiders essentially ending up with a swap of QBs with Carr signing in TB and Brady heading to Vegas to reunite with his old OC.

[Joe W. Namath]

Carr will be in Indianopolis.  They collect terrible qbs every year.  He will fit right in.

[BCJet]

2 hours ago, usanyj said:

Can’t forget he’s had terrible defenses on this team as well… give him our young weapons and a top 5 defense, and I believe we have something with him.

Agreed, its really important for a QB to not have to constantly play from behind.  He has never been able to rely on his defense and or OL and has only rarely been able to rely on his running game - how exactly can he be successful in a situation like that. 

For the comparison to Stafford, Stafford didnt have the same amount of interceptions nor did he completely crumble like Carr did these last few weeks, but he did lose 6 of his last 7 in detroit before winning a SB.  Im not sure Carr has the physical ability that Stafford does but I do think its fair to look at the entire situation this year in LV rather then looking at just his implostion/ints.

[OilfieldJet]

20 hours ago, BigRy56 said:

For the haters in the house. This, by all accounts, has been a less than great year for Carr. His 24 passing TDs would be almost double the passing TD total of all 3 Jets starting QBs this season combined.

Carr has been a consistent top 12-16 QB his entire career on very flawed teams. This Jets team would be up there with some of the best he’s played on. Don’t sleep on how good of a move this could be

You gotta try this guy, cheap and better than anyone on our roster…..MW prove me wrong.

[OilfieldJet]

1 hour ago, RutgersJetFan said:

He's from Bakersfield. Anyone ever met someone from Bakersfield that moved to the Northeast and handled it well? No, no you have not. Place is a black hole of weirdos.

Lol, Bakersfield is pretty bad.

[More Cowbell]

20 hours ago, Matt39 said:

 

Derek  is having a bad season with a new HC playing in a new offense. I don't  think this is totally on him. McDaniels failed pretty spectacularly  as a HC before. Don't  know  if this is all on him.