Derek Carr benched and likely out in Las Vegas

[jgb]

1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Agreed that JD needs to consider everything.  I could absolutely see Carr happening (as much as I don't like that idea).

Ultimately, the problem is that FQBs don't become available so we'll be left with whatever happens to be out there (assuming we don't stick with MW).  

That’s the price of whiffing on the #2 overall. Let’s hope we don’t throw good money after bad…

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

It's unreal that you are questioning how much Jackson has left, but have made about 200 posts in favor of Brady.  Brady has shown this year he is completely done. You need to look past raw stats and watch the games.  Yes he was 4000 yards, but is doing that by throwing about 800 passes. His YPA is 6.2, which is absolutely anemic.  It means he can't throw downfield and is now a dinner and a dunker - and that is with Evans (who Brady made a non-factor this season ) and Godwin with a supporting cast of Gage, Jones, Miller, and good receiving backs (Fournette and White).  When you peel the onion, Brady has been atrocious this season.  The Bucs are averaging about 15 points a game since September. That makes the Jets offense with White look like the 1999 Rams.  Please, enough with the old man talk! I don't see JD and Saleh betting their futures on a 46 year old self absorbed cheater.  Father Time always wins and you can hear the tick tick every time you watch the anemic Bucs play.  

I'm not buying the "Brady is atrocious" talk.

Lamar is great but he'd also cost a lot so I just want JD to do his due diligence.  You want to pay a guy for what he'll give you going forward, rather than what he's done in the past.  

[TuscanyTile2]

Just now, jgb said:

That’s the price of whiffing on the #2 overall. Let’s hope we don’t throw good money after bad…

That's the concern.  As bad as ZW is, we're still in a better situation than the Broncos are with Russell Wilson.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I don't think Rodgers is washed up.  I'd roll the dice with him.  But TB12 is another option.

I'd love to play high stakes poker with you. You would bet $100 million and three seasons of football that a 40 year old is not washed up, but not $40 million over two seasons on Carr?  Really?  And you would bet that Brady, who is older than any QB who ever played the game in NFL history and who is Qb of one of the worst offenses in the NFL and who is only capable of dinks and dunks with two All-Pro receivers can come here and revive his career in a make or break season for JD and Saleh? The Jets don't play in the NFC South, which may be the worst division in the history of the NFL.  

[NYJCAP2]

I’ve always liked Carr and thought he was going to blossom with Gruden… which abruptly got upended.

What I’ve also recently realized is that he’s good for a bonehead INT every other game.

In the end I think he will check a lot more “yes” boxes, than “no” boxes.

[jgb]

42 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Reminds me so much when people told me Stafford sucked, was no better than Sanchez

No one “has won anything,” until they have.

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

That's the concern.  As bad as ZW is, we're still in a better situation than the Broncos are with Russell Wilson.

JD isn’t giving Carr or anyone else $250M so you don’t have to worry about that!

[ylekram]

17 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

If we can't get a "needle mover" then bring in a veteran to backup MW.

Carr is that needle mover. I just don't see the love affair with Mike White except that he not Zach Wilson

[TuscanyTile2]

3 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

I'd love to play high stakes poker with you. You would bet $100 million and three seasons of football that a 40 year old is not washed up, but not $40 million over two seasons on Carr?  Really?  And you would bet that Brady, who is older than any QB who ever played the game in NFL history and who is Qb of one of the worst offenses in the NFL and who is only capable of dinks and dunks with two All-Pro receivers can come here and revive his career in a make or break season for JD and Saleh? The Jets don't play in the NFC South, which may be the worst division in the history of the NFL.  

Yes, really.  I'm not looking for "an upgrade".  I want a Super Bowl.  If it ends up being a disaster, so be it.  Go big or go home.  Hitting a single with Derek Carr isn't going to win us a Super Bowl.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I'm not buying the "Brady is atrocious" talk.

Lamar is great but he'd also cost a lot so I just want JD to do his due diligence.  You want to pay a guy for what he'll give you going forward, rather than what he's done in the past.  

Exactly.  YOU are willing to pay for Brady's past though............What will a 46+ year old give you going forward?  Tell me please.  Have you watched Tampa's games?  Yes Brady has secured a couple of last minute wins vs horrible teams in low scoring games, but he and the offense have been absolutely anemic.  I would be completely shocked if the Jets even consider him let alone sign him.  

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, ylekram said:

Carr is that needle mover. I just don't see the love affair with Mike White except that he not Zach Wilson

Is that why the Raiders are going to cut him, even though they don't have a successor in place, nor a top draft pick (they currently pick 9th)?!

 

https://www.tankathon.com/nfl

[TuscanyTile2]

4 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Exactly.  YOU are willing to pay for Brady's past though............What will a 46+ year old give you going forward?  Tell me please.  Have you watched Tampa's games?  Yes Brady has secured a couple of last minute wins vs horrible teams in low scoring games, but he and the offense have been absolutely anemic.  I would be completely shocked if the Jets even consider him let alone sign him.  

He's still putting up very good numbers and we have a defense that can support him.  Plus we have weapinz that will get healthy next year.

Plus, TB12 is a year-to-year guy.  If it doesn't work out, we're not going to be locked in.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

Just now, TuscanyTile2 said:

Yes, really.  I'm not looking for "an upgrade".  I want a Super Bowl.  If it ends up being a disaster, so be it.  Go big or go home.  Hitting a single with Derek Carr isn't going to win us a Super Bowl.

But Brady is just a singles hitter now.  Again, do you watch the games?  Brady at this point is nothing close to a go big option.  He is an old man playing out the string in search of one more season of glory in what he thought was a watered down NFC South and NFC in general.  And he can't even get to .500 and 20 points a game with one of the best receiving corps in the NFL.  I suggest you watch some tapes of Bucs games and then tell me you want him on this team when he is a year or two older.

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Is that why the Raiders are going to cut him, even though they don't have a successor in place, nor a top draft pick (they currently pick 9th)?!

 

https://www.tankathon.com/nfl

His contract was structured for exactly this outcome. Front loaded guaranteed part of deal so raiders could get out after a year and in return, Carr got a no trade clause so he could stop the team from shipping him to Houston or wherever and then get cut and cash in again.

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

His contract was structured for exactly this outcome. Front loaded guaranteed part of deal so raiders could get out after a year and in return, Carr got a no trade clause so he could stop the team from shipping him to Houston or wherever.

What are you saying then?  That the Raiders signed him with an eye on getting rid of him?   That's who we're supposed to want as QB1?

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

He's still putting up very good numbers and we have a defense that can support him.  Plus we have weapinz that will get healthy next year.

6.2 YPA is a terrible number.  So is  16 points a game.  Do you realize how bad that is???????????????  And how are the Jets weapons better than the Bucs???????  Please. You are living 5 years in the past and are mesmerized by the Brady name. 

[56mehl56]

34 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

The same is true for Mike White.

We'll see after these next two games , he's 1-2 , that projects to 4-5 wins on the season. A little too early for the MW long term solution question. 

[TuscanyTile2]

7 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

But Brady is just a singles hitter now.  Again, do you watch the games?  Brady at this point is nothing close to a go big option.  He is an old man playing out the string in search of one more season of glory in what he thought was a watered down NFC South and NFC in general.  And he can't even get to .500 and 20 points a game with one of the best receiving corps in the NFL.  I suggest you watch some tapes of Bucs games and then tell me you want him on this team when he is a year or two older.

Yeah, he's so "washed up" that he can still throw for 4,178 yards, 21 TDs and 9 INTs, with a 66% completion percentage.

 

Tom Brady:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00.htm

 

Derek Carr:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CarrDe02.htm

 

[ylekram]

5 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Is that why the Raiders are going to cut him, even though they don't have a successor in place, nor a top draft pick (they currently pick 9th)?!

 

https://www.tankathon.com/nfl

got 2 words for you. Mc Daniels...

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, 56mehl56 said:

We'll see after these next two games , he's 1-2 , that projects to 4-5 wins on the season. A little too early for the MW long term solution question. 

That's completely fair.  I want to see him these next 2 games too.  

[TuscanyTile2]

3 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

6.2 YPA is a terrible number.  So is  16 points a game.  Do you realize how bad that is???????????????  And how are the Jets weapons better than the Bucs???????  Please. You are living 5 years in the past and are mesmerized by the Brady name. 

If he stinks, we're looking at a 1 year investment.  If Derek Carr stinks, we're probably going to be locked into a long-term deal for a lot of guaranteed money.  

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

What are you saying then?  That the Raiders signed him with an eye on getting rid of him?   That's who we're supposed to want as QB1?

I’m not saying that. Seems you are ? 

I’m saying the “he’s a bum because he is getting cut” is dramatically oversimplified. It may have been Carr who wanted this potential contractual out as much or more than the team did.

Someone who follows the Raiders more closely may have more insight there.

[Barkus]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

I thought the Raiders could opt out of his deal if they cut him within 3 days of the SB.  Figured that’s what the Raiders are doing here to get out from under his deal

Yes, if he is on the roster 3 days after Super Bowl ends his salary is guaranteed. It is only a 5.6 million cap hit if they cut him in that time period. 

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

I’m not saying that. Seems you are ? 

I’m saying the “he’s a bum because he is getting cut” is dramatically oversimplified. It may have been Carr who wanted this potential contractual out as much or more than the team did.

Someone who follows the Raiders more closely may have more insight there.

Even if Carr wanted a contractual out, if he was worth keeping, wouldn't the Raiders keep him?  I'm not saying he's a bum or anything but I think we'd be paying a fortune for a guy who just doesn't feel like "the guy" to me.  And I don't want to get locked in long-term (with a lot of guaranteed money) for that.  That's a nightmare.

 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Even if Carr wanted a contractual out, if he was worth keeping, wouldn't the Raiders keep him?  I'm not saying he's a bum or anything but I think we'd be paying a fortune for a guy who just doesn't feel like "the guy" to me.  And I don't want to get locked in long-term (with a lot of guaranteed money) for that.  That's a nightmare.

 

IIRC there were rumors he was on the block last year then boom out of nowhere he’s extended with a rather unique deal structure. Always smelled like a bandaid to me and now the relationship has fully broken.

[choon328]

1 hour ago, Zachtomims47 said:

I'm probably gonna sound dumb here but....isn't that what reads are? Being told where to go with the ball? 1st, 2nd, 3rd read, etc? Isn't that every offense? What am I missing here

That Adams isn't the first read

[choon328]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

His existing contract looks like an abomination to me.  Who wants to pay this guy $40.5M AAV for 3 seasons?!  Then we'd be locked in.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/las-vegas-raiders/derek-carr-14445/

I'm assuming that would be reworked and a few dummy years added to lower those numbers

[choon328]

42 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

That's the concern.  As bad as ZW is, we're still in a better situation than the Broncos are with Russell Wilson.

Russell Wilson and Derek Carr are not the same risks. Wilson renlied on his ability to run, roll out and make plays on the move. He's lost quite a bit of that ability and now he's forced into the pocket and he's struggling. It's why I want to stay away from Lamar.

Carr is a pocket passer who can move within the pocket and make some plays but he doesn't rely on that.  He's not the perfect option but unless Mike White goes crazy these next two games I think he's the only legitimate option to take this team to the next level. Brady isn't coming here,  he hates the Jets. Rodgers has an untradeable contract until after 2023 and he's not coming here either. 

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, nyjets1969 said:

Mike white can't stay on the field your going into season with a guy that gets hurt easy with no back up. Jets are bringing a vet in Mike White has 2 games to prove himself if he doesn't win last 2 games guaranteed he is gone.

Getting hurt and missing a game here and there is NOT Injury Prone. So please stop with this bullsh*t narrative. 

He broke his ribs and missed 2 games . Compare that to Garappolo who is always hurt and always seems to miss a season here and there which is a big difference. Before the Broken Ribs Mike White Missed 3/4 of a game vs the Colts game when he hit his elbow on a Helmet and lost feeling in his arm then missed a few minutes at the end of the Buffalo game last year. Calling that "cant stay on the field" is ridiculous. 

[TuscanyTile2]

17 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Russell Wilson and Derek Carr are not the same risks. Wilson renlied on his ability to run, roll out and make plays on the move. He's lost quite a bit of that ability and now he's forced into the pocket and he's struggling. It's why I want to stay away from Lamar.

Carr is a pocket passer who can move within the pocket and make some plays but he doesn't rely on that.  He's not the perfect option but unless Mike White goes crazy these next two games I think he's the only legitimate option to take this team to the next level. Brady isn't coming here,  he hates the Jets. Rodgers has an untradeable contract until after 2023 and he's not coming here either. 

The truth is that we're probably F'd.  That feeling kicks in more, though, when you bring in a guy like Carr and give him a contract as if he was prime Aaron Rodgers.

We need some kind of miracle to happen for us at QB (e.g. KC taking Mahomes at #10 overall).  So does every team that doesn't have a FQB though.

EDIT: I'm still hopeful that MW has some kind of special "winner" gene.  

[Smashmouth]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

This is how I see it, too.

For all the drama that we overanalyze for our own team, every team has things that suck, including playoff & super bowl teams. 

The Jets could - or anyway, should - be the next TB-to-TB destination. Young team; showed it can score points when the QB isn't choking or on a stretcher; young weapons; ability to come in here with that going for it & you the QB look like it was all you that did it. Tampa was a great situation for any legit QB who wasn't committing 40 turnovers, never mind that Brady was still so much better than most on top of that.

Now Carr may not want to come here for his own reasons, but on the off-chance he gets released due to $ it'd be malpractice for JD to not at least throw a 7th round offer. As a FA he'll get 2-3 seasons fully guaranteed; his current contract has just the upcoming one + another $7.5MM guaranteed for injury. If he's one & done here it's not the end of the world, and easier to move on, than picking him up as a FA. And if he wouldn't agree to a trade to the Jets (he has a full no-trade clause), then he's probably not signing a new contract here either unless JD was to guarantee him $40MM/year until he turns 40 himself. 

No one wants his new team to have to give up 1st rounders that'd help him succeed in his new destination. 

Let me ask you a question Sperm 

Keeping opinions of players out of it.

Would you rather sign a player who has been the face of a franchise that has failed, win a SB with the Jets ? 

Or

Would you rather we win a SB with our developed QB in Mike White ?

People may disagree with me here But I think Mike White is better than all the FA's available and deserves more of a chance to be the guy simply because he's already proven he can move this football team. The Wins will come as will the TD's if he's given the chance to play every day. If he wins out for us vs Seattle and the Phin's he deserves to start next year and be the guy. Having a guy like Minshew backing him up IMHO would be the most responsible move JD could make. 

 

[bla bla bla]

2 hours ago, Zachtomims47 said:

I'm probably gonna sound dumb here but....isn't that what reads are? Being told where to go with the ball? 1st, 2nd, 3rd read, etc? Isn't that every offense? What am I missing here

Exactly, scripted by a Coach who wants Carr out. 

[bla bla bla]

The nice thing is that Carr needs to be cut 3 days after the Super Bowl meaning he is immediately a FA and can sign with any team. He doesn't have to wait for his contract to expire at the beginning of the new league year.

So the Jets can know where he is going to land before they know if White is their only option.

[Gastineau Lives]

2 hours ago, TNJet said:

Derek Carr sucks now and has been benched?? SIGN THIS BEAST! JETS! JETS! JETS!

Their season is over and he’s being protected from injury for a potential trade according to Jeremy Fowler

[TuscanyTile2]

4 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Exactly, scripted by a Coach who wants Carr out. 

Because Carr is so good?