Jump to content

I don't necessarily want to take a WR round 1....


bonkertons

Recommended Posts

..but if Quentin Johnston is there, how difficult would it be to pass that kind of talent up?  6'4 and ridiculous speed.  On paper would seem like a perfect compliment to Garrett Wilson.  Plus shifty Moore still around to play in the slot.  Can then cut Davis without needing to go into FA for a replacement which opens up $10M of space.  

 

I don't expect him to be there when we pick, regardless of whether or not we lose these next two games, but the draft is a strange beast.  Part of me hopes he's gone before we pick, so we can just sit back and take our LT or LB or even trade down a bit.  I don't know though, the idea of building an offense flush with elite talent is pretty enticing.  

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, bonkertons said:

..but if Quentin Johnston is there, how difficult would it be to pass that kind of talent up?  6'4 and ridiculous speed.  On paper would seem like a perfect compliment to Garrett Wilson.  Plus shifty Moore still around to play in the slot.  Can then cut Davis without needing to go into FA for a replacement which opens up $10M of space.  

 

I don't expect him to be there when we pick, regardless of whether or not we lose these next two games, but the draft is a strange beast.  Part of me hopes he's gone before we pick, so we can just sit back and take our LT or LB or even trade down a bit.  I don't know though, the idea of building an offense flush with elite talent is pretty enticing.  

Never say never. Johnston is a big YAC threat and thats what the Jets staff seems to favor at the position. Johnson, Elijah and Garrett would be a hell of a trio. 

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, TNJet said:

No we take OT, QB, C in that order.

Are you saying an OT in the 1st, QB in the 2nd, C in the 3rd?  Or are you saying you go OT but if there isn't one worth taking, you go QB, but if there isn't one of those worth taking you go C?  Because if it's the latter I can tell you taking a C in the 10-20 range would be....well....not great.

 

Also not sure why we would go QB in the 2nd.  Who are we realistically looking at there?  If we're going to take a project I'd much rather wait until the 4th or 5th.  Take the C in the 2nd where you should be able to walk away with one of the top-2 guys.  Swap out the QB need with LB.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, bonkertons said:

Are you saying an OT in the 1st, QB in the 2nd, C in the 3rd?  Or are you saying you go OT but if there isn't one worth taking, you go QB, but if there isn't one of those worth taking you go C?  Because if it's the latter I can tell you taking a C in the 10-20 range would be....well....not great.

 

Also not sure why we would go QB in the 2nd.  Who are we realistically looking at there?  If we're going to take a project I'd much rather wait until the 4th or 5th.  Take the C in the 2nd where you should be able to walk away with one of the top-2 guys.  Swap out the QB need with LB.

No C in the first no way. In the latter rounds. QB and or OT in the first or second. LB around round 3 or 4. Safety also. We need to upgrade over Joyner's no tackling azz.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm not fully sold on him.  I see him as a second round prospect.  

Although, I really haven't done deep dives on him.  

He reminds me a lot of Shenault, a guy that runs fairly simple routes, but has a real good knack for avoiding the primary defender trying to tackle him after a catch.  I see a lot of manufactured touches for him, and I'm not sure how well that translates.  I don't see the nuances of route running, hip manipulation, or technical acumen.  I see a guy that is physically bigger and faster than the competition, kinda taking advantage of it.  Again, I haven't done the research, so this is just my preliminary outlook.  

I see a lot of quick out/in routes based on RPO, where he just runs to a spot, turns around and waits, or a bunch of field crossers, which are almost impossible to defend in college.  

I'm not saying he can't be good, because the physical tools are definitely there, but he's not a sure thing like Wilson last year.  For a team that has other needs, I wouldn't draft him in the first.  

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, win4ever said:

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm not fully sold on him.  I see him as a second round prospect.  

Although, I really haven't done deep dives on him.  

He reminds me a lot of Shenault, a guy that runs fairly simple routes, but has a real good knack for avoiding the primary defender trying to tackle him after a catch.  I see a lot of manufactured touches for him, and I'm not sure how well that translates.  I don't see the nuances of route running, hip manipulation, or technical acumen.  I see a guy that is physically bigger and faster than the competition, kinda taking advantage of it.  Again, I haven't done the research, so this is just my preliminary outlook.  

I see a lot of quick out/in routes based on RPO, where he just runs to a spot, turns around and waits, or a bunch of field crossers, which are almost impossible to defend in college.  

I'm not saying he can't be good, because the physical tools are definitely there, but he's not a sure thing like Wilson last year.  For a team that has other needs, I wouldn't draft him in the first.  

I kind of get where you’re going but Shenault’s usage was way more gadget-y, he had medical concerns, and I don’t think he was as fast as Johnston. I would need to dig into Johnston’s hands more but I think two different guys in terms of twitch and athleticism.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/31/2022 at 8:10 PM, derp said:

I kind of get where you’re going but Shenault’s usage was way more gadget-y, he had medical concerns, and I don’t think he was as fast as Johnston. I would need to dig into Johnston’s hands more but I think two different guys in terms of twitch and athleticism.

I think Johnson is faster, but I thought Shenault was a better runner.  Idk, something about his routes just bother me, but I like guys that are clean route runners coming out of college.  I think Johnson is good, and I certainly take a shot in the second, but the first seems like a reach to me.  I'm not in love with the top of this this WR class. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, win4ever said:

I think Johnson is faster, but I thought Shenault was a better runner.  Idk, something about his routes just bother me, but I like guys that are clean route runners coming out of college.  I think Johnson is good, and I certainly take a shot in the second, but the first seems like a reach to me.  I'm not in love with the top of this this WR class. 

Shenault was shiftier? Johnson is more one quick move and get upfield which I think translates to the next level better.

Top of the WR class certainly isn’t great. I think Johnston as a 6’4 athletic guy with production on a team in the CFP final would go as high as possible if he didn’t have flaws as a prospect. The profile hasn’t come out in a while and receivers have been going higher than I thought they would so I imagine he goes in the first, but I don’t think he’s clean enough to be a top five pick like big fast guys can be.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/2/2023 at 7:31 AM, derp said:

Shenault was shiftier? Johnson is more one quick move and get upfield which I think translates to the next level better.

Top of the WR class certainly isn’t great. I think Johnston as a 6’4 athletic guy with production on a team in the CFP final would go as high as possible if he didn’t have flaws as a prospect. The profile hasn’t come out in a while and receivers have been going higher than I thought they would so I imagine he goes in the first, but I don’t think he’s clean enough to be a top five pick like big fast guys can be.

I think he'll go in the first because he will test well.  So far from watching a little of him (Have to do a deeper dive) I havent fallen in love with him as a clear translation to the nfl player.  

I'll go back and look more, but his routes and the offense to inspire me to love how he'll translate right away, and this is a team that shouldnt be loooking for developmental guys in the first round at this point.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

I think he'll go in the first because he will test well.  So far from watching a little of him (Have to do a deeper dive) I havent fallen in love with him as a clear translation to the nfl player.  

I'll go back and look more, but his routes and the offense to inspire me to love how he'll translate right away, and this is a team that shouldnt be loooking for developmental guys in the first round at this point.  

Yeah I absolutely agree he’s a toolsy guy who lacks polish and also probably not an ideal fit because he’s a little raw seeming. I do think the presence of Wilson mitigates the fit a little and the physical tools are pretty rare and can potentially provide something the offense really needs, but not a layup pick by any means.

Best case maybe a Mike Williams type trajectory but offering more YAC? Definitely different tools just thinking a slower developing guy who can threaten outside the numbers.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, derp said:

Yeah I absolutely agree he’s a toolsy guy who lacks polish and also probably not an ideal fit because he’s a little raw seeming. I do think the presence of Wilson mitigates the fit a little and the physical tools are pretty rare and can potentially provide something the offense really needs, but not a layup pick by any means.

Best case maybe a Mike Williams type trajectory but offering more YAC? Definitely different tools just thinking a slower developing guy who can threaten outside the numbers.

You never know with these guys. I'm pretty high on Johnston. To me, he looks more like a guy who may very well develop into a DK Metcalf kind of player. Physically gifted, high upside big bodied raw WR who needs to develop his route tree. Metcalf still doesn't run complex routes. But with Lockett on the other side he is able to dominate with his size, speed and athleticism.

I think Shenault is not a good comparison. Chase Claypool is a much better comparison IMO. But Johnston has way more skill.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/2/2023 at 3:26 AM, VJphillyfan said:

We are cutting Corey Davis so we are likely drafting WR in round 1

 

Not sure I follow the logic there, unless this is sarcasm.  There are clearly bigger holes than WR, with or without Davis.  No idea why we couldn't just sign Davis' replacement.  There's already a good amount of youth at the WR position with Wilson, Moore, Mims, and whatever 7th rounder/undrafted KR/PR specialist you bring in to replace Berrios.  Just don't see the need(in comparison to OL, LB, FS, Edge, DT, even QB), unless it's a surefire stud you just can't pass up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, PepPep said:

You never know with these guys. I'm pretty high on Johnston. To me, he looks more like a guy who may very well develop into a DK Metcalf kind of player. Physically gifted, high upside big bodied raw WR who needs to develop his route tree. Metcalf still doesn't run complex routes. But with Lockett on the other side he is able to dominate with his size, speed and athleticism.

I think Shenault is not a good comparison. Chase Claypool is a much better comparison IMO. But Johnston has way more skill.   

I do think even if Johnston is as fast as Metcalf, which I’m not sure he would be, he certainly won’t be as big. Metcalf is just a freak. Part of the appeal to Johnston is his ability to sink and change direction at his size. 

And Claypool is probably more discouraging than encouraging.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, derp said:

I do think even if Johnston is as fast as Metcalf, which I’m not sure he would be, he certainly won’t be as big. Metcalf is just a freak. Part of the appeal to Johnston is his ability to sink and change direction at his size. 

And Claypool is probably more discouraging than encouraging.

Right, I wanted to make a ceiling/floor type of comparison. Claypool is the floor. Metcalf is the ceiling. 

Metcalf is 6'4, 236. Claypool is 6'4, 238. Johnston is 6'4, 215. So yeah, Metcalf is more physically gifted. Claypool is a bigger dude, almost like a TE. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Right, I wanted to make a ceiling/floor type of comparison. Claypool is the floor. Metcalf is the ceiling. 

Metcalf is 6'4, 236. Claypool is 6'4, 238. Johnston is 6'4, 215. So yeah, Metcalf is more physically gifted. Claypool is a bigger dude, almost like a TE. 

I mean Metcalf and Claypool are pretty much the same size and have similar timed speed. Johnston’s not as physically thick as either of those guys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm assuming Davis is cut, considering his inability to stay healthy and Mims becoming more than a roster hole this year.  You can generally find a big bodied possession receiver in the 3rd round would be a good place to pick one up and rotate with Mims. 

Wilson being a stud has really helped us out.  

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/31/2022 at 10:44 AM, win4ever said:

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm not fully sold on him.  I see him as a second round prospect.  

Although, I really haven't done deep dives on him.  

He reminds me a lot of Shenault, a guy that runs fairly simple routes, but has a real good knack for avoiding the primary defender trying to tackle him after a catch.  I see a lot of manufactured touches for him, and I'm not sure how well that translates.  I don't see the nuances of route running, hip manipulation, or technical acumen.  I see a guy that is physically bigger and faster than the competition, kinda taking advantage of it.  Again, I haven't done the research, so this is just my preliminary outlook.  

I see a lot of quick out/in routes based on RPO, where he just runs to a spot, turns around and waits, or a bunch of field crossers, which are almost impossible to defend in college.  

I'm not saying he can't be good, because the physical tools are definitely there, but he's not a sure thing like Wilson last year.  For a team that has other needs, I wouldn't draft him in the first.  

 

On 1/2/2023 at 4:31 AM, derp said:

Shenault was shiftier? Johnson is more one quick move and get upfield which I think translates to the next level better.

Top of the WR class certainly isn’t great. I think Johnston as a 6’4 athletic guy with production on a team in the CFP final would go as high as possible if he didn’t have flaws as a prospect. The profile hasn’t come out in a while and receivers have been going higher than I thought they would so I imagine he goes in the first, but I don’t think he’s clean enough to be a top five pick like big fast guys can be.

no offense to present company, but Shenault was a fraud. Should have never been drafted outside of the dart rounds... He doesn't belong in any comp conversation that doesn't start and end with Cordarrelle Patterson -- who admittedly, came alive as a RB/Gadget guy (8 years later) which is the only hope Laviska ever will have. 

As a college fan, I loved watching QJ -- the question the film autopsy needs to tell us however;, is he just another Kevin White. I had a major concerns about Kevin White translating. Not saying Quentin is, but those concerns will be the kind i'll be looking for. 

 

Also, latest from Cleveland... David Bell is still trying to separate on a route he's been running since sunday.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, maury77 said:

Kayshon Boutte declared. When I watch him, I keep thinking of Fournette because of the number 7, but he might be a fit in the Jets offense because of his YAC ability. 

@derp @JiFields @Paradis @Chrebetfan80 and anyone else I left out, what do you guys think of Boutte?

I like him quite a bit but haven't made time to put my name on anything yet. It was tough watching the Jayden Daniels led-LSU early on and I checked out

Guys I'm interested in (no order and not necessarily as fit for the Jets)

  • AT Perry
  • Kayshon Boutte
  • Zay Flowers
  • Dontayvion Wicks
  • Jared Wayne 

Not sure how much i love them yet

  • Quentin Johnston
  • Jordan Addison 
  • Jalin Hyattt
  • Dontay Demus

Skeptical or Overrated 

  • JSN
  • Josh Downs
  • Tyler Hudson
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Paradis said:

 

no offense to present company, but Shenault was a fraud. Should have never been drafted outside of the dart rounds... He doesn't belong in any comp conversation that doesn't start and end with Cordarrelle Patterson -- who admittedly, came alive as a RB/Gadget guy (8 years later) which is the only hope Laviska ever will have. 

As a college fan, I loved watching QJ -- the question the film autopsy needs to tell us however;, is he just another Kevin White. I had a major concerns about Kevin White translating. Not saying Quentin is, but those concerns will be the kind i'll be looking for. 

 

Also, latest from Cleveland... David Bell is still trying to separate on a route he's been running since sunday.  

you know whats funny, i didnt want to say it at first because i thought i was just being biased with a big athletic wrs with long hair.. But my first few watches all i could think of was this dude is Kevin White. 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, derp said:

Yeah I absolutely agree he’s a toolsy guy who lacks polish and also probably not an ideal fit because he’s a little raw seeming. I do think the presence of Wilson mitigates the fit a little and the physical tools are pretty rare and can potentially provide something the offense really needs, but not a layup pick by any means.

Best case maybe a Mike Williams type trajectory but offering more YAC? Definitely different tools just thinking a slower developing guy who can threaten outside the numbers.

Honestly with all these guys its how they develop going into their rookie year and through their time in the league.  Goes without saying i know. 

I think from my admittedly small sample ive seen of him, he's a freak of an athlete with great upside, he's just going to need work, and what I dont know is how adaptable to that work he will be to put it all together. 

Some guys go into the offseason, work with a great WR trainer pre draft and all of a sudden their teaching clicks and these guys take off.  Some guys keep going and get marginally better.  Its really hit or miss.  I think the biggest thing is to look from year to year if possible and see their developmental arc. Usually very difficult with what we have to work with. 

For the jets to take a project player in the first round right now to me is a disservice.  this team needs ready talent.  I'm not saying QJ cant be an immediate impact guy, i just have to see how he does during this pre draft process. 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Paradis said:

I like him quite a bit but haven't made time to put my name on anything yet. It was tough watching the Jayden Daniels led-LSU early on and I checked out

Guys I'm interested in (no order and not necessarily as fit for the Jets)

  • AT Perry
  • Kayshon Boutte
  • Zay Flowers
  • Dontayvion Wicks
  • Jared Wayne 

Not sure how much i love them yet

  • Quentin Johnston
  • Jordan Addison 
  • Jalin Hyattt
  • Dontay Demus

Skeptical or Overrated 

  • JSN
  • Josh Downs
  • Tyler Hudson

The reason Boutte reversed his decision about declaring for the draft might cause him to drop a couple rounds, thus making him a decent value.   He was made inactive by Brian Kelly for the bowl game and there are allegations he was involved with some sex party or something like that while the team was in Atlanta.   

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Honestly with all these guys its how they develop going into their rookie year and through their time in the league.  Goes without saying i know. 

I think from my admittedly small sample ive seen of him, he's a freak of an athlete with great upside, he's just going to need work, and what I dont know is how adaptable to that work he will be to put it all together. 

Some guys go into the offseason, work with a great WR trainer pre draft and all of a sudden their teaching clicks and these guys take off.  Some guys keep going and get marginally better.  Its really hit or miss.  I think the biggest thing is to look from year to year if possible and see their developmental arc. Usually very difficult with what we have to work with. 

For the jets to take a project player in the first round right now to me is a disservice.  this team needs ready talent.  I'm not saying QJ cant be an immediate impact guy, i just have to see how he does during this pre draft process. 

Realize I’m responding to you and @Paradis in a different conversation but if you guys think Johnston is like Kevin White then Jeremiah is going to have him like top five…kidding, kind of.

The big thing with White is he broke out at 22 and was a 23 year old rookie. Johnston’s led the team in receiving since he was a freshman, so at least on paper the trajectory is better. I’m sure it’s more complicated than this but I tend to think of White as a breakout age failure not a failure of taking a toolsy WR.

Yeah, I get it and that does make sense. It’s a lot easier to learn about WR’s when they’re out of their college system a little.

The situation on offense is pretty brutal because it needs to get better and I’m pretty much not comfortable with this front office identifying and/or this coaching staff developing anything. So I’m okay with them adding like…a running back because they can get the ball in his hands and let him go and that’s about it.

I think conceptually a guy who can stretch the field and occasionally create a little with the ball in his hands as he develops improves the offense - spacing and big plays - and Wilson as a target hog gives that player a buffer to develop. But I absolutely understand that the first round might not be the place to take that guy and a this might not be the coaching staff to develop him even if it was.

Oddly enough it’s kind of hard to find a field stretcher who can run after the catch and make plays with the ball in his hands as it seems this offense demands…outside the first round. I know you’ve talked about the Green Bay and SF versions of this offense and it feels like this one has the most demands on receivers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, derp said:

Realize I’m responding to you and @Paradis in a different conversation but if you guys think Johnston is like Kevin White then Jeremiah is going to have him like top five…kidding, kind of.

The big thing with White is he broke out at 22 and was a 23 year old rookie. Johnston’s led the team in receiving since he was a freshman, so at least on paper the trajectory is better. I’m sure it’s more complicated than this but I tend to think of White as a breakout age failure not a failure of taking a toolsy WR.

Yeah, I get it and that does make sense. It’s a lot easier to learn about WR’s when they’re out of their college system a little.

The situation on offense is pretty brutal because it needs to get better and I’m pretty much not comfortable with this front office identifying and/or this coaching staff developing anything. So I’m okay with them adding like…a running back because they can get the ball in his hands and let him go and that’s about it.

I think conceptually a guy who can stretch the field and occasionally create a little with the ball in his hands as he develops improves the offense - spacing and big plays - and Wilson as a target hog gives that player a buffer to develop. But I absolutely understand that the first round might not be the place to take that guy and a this might not be the coaching staff to develop him even if it was.

Oddly enough it’s kind of hard to find a field stretcher who can run after the catch and make plays with the ball in his hands as it seems this offense demands…outside the first round. I know you’ve talked about the Green Bay and SF versions of this offense and it feels like this one has the most demands on receivers.

It's really just how we run the offense, we dont really throw the ball to the outside deep much.  Maybe that would change with a guy that can win 1v1 but MLF so far has been hesitant to take shots in this way.  Most stuff deep is off of play action and he's trying to hit a deep cross after a clear out by a fade.   

I was very in favor of Jameson Williams last year for this exact reason, a guy that could stretch the field I felt really opened up the offense (even if i thought garret wilson was the best fit for what we were doing).  I'm being smarter this year, its just not how we're looking to run this offense right now. I think we all agree that having that big target that can win 1v1 like that would be huge for this team and open up that intermediate area of the field for guys like wilson and moore while also allowing us to take more successful shots downfield.  It just seems so far that isnt the gameplan week in and week out in the offense.  

So while I agree with you in the regard that he can really help out if he develops, I wonder if we'd ever use him right to get the most out of his talents. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

It's really just how we run the offense, we dont really throw the ball to the outside deep much.  Maybe that would change with a guy that can win 1v1 but MLF so far has been hesitant to take shots in this way.  Most stuff deep is off of play action and he's trying to hit a deep cross after a clear out by a fade.   

I was very in favor of Jameson Williams last year for this exact reason, a guy that could stretch the field I felt really opened up the offense (even if i thought garret wilson was the best fit for what we were doing).  I'm being smarter this year, its just not how we're looking to run this offense right now. I think we all agree that having that big target that can win 1v1 like that would be huge for this team and open up that intermediate area of the field for guys like wilson and moore while also allowing us to take more successful shots downfield.  It just seems so far that isnt the gameplan week in and week out in the offense.  

So while I agree with you in the regard that he can really help out if he develops, I wonder if we'd ever use him right to get the most out of his talents. 

Yeah I think it’s absolutely a chicken or the egg type thing too. I have the go balls to Moore against Cincinnati burned into my head. They’ve taken a couple shots to Mims too.

Conceptually I think they understand the need to stretch the field in that manner but they don’t value it above YAC and the ability to play all three positions. So while Mims can do that and it’d add something I don’t think they’ll put him on the field just to do that, if that makes sense. And without Mims the rest of the room just isn’t especially at it, so there’s no real reason to do it since it really doesn’t threaten defenses.

I could be wrong but that’s my read. I also don’t know if we’ll necessarily be seeing this same offense next year either, but certainly could be.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

The reason Boutte reversed his decision about declaring for the draft might cause him to drop a couple rounds, thus making him a decent value.   He was made inactive by Brian Kelly for the bowl game and there are allegations he was involved with some sex party or something like that while the team was in Atlanta.   

I mean ... are we really going to hold that against a college kid? I probably tried to get into those kinds of parties on a weekly basis at that age. 

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, derp said:

Yeah I think it’s absolutely a chicken or the egg type thing too. I have the go balls to Moore against Cincinnati burned into my head. They’ve taken a couple shots to Mims too.

Conceptually I think they understand the need to stretch the field in that manner but they don’t value it above YAC and the ability to play all three positions. So while Mims can do that and it’d add something I don’t think they’ll put him on the field just to do that, if that makes sense. And without Mims the rest of the room just isn’t especially at it, so there’s no real reason to do it since it really doesn’t threaten defenses.

I could be wrong but that’s my read. I also don’t know if we’ll necessarily be seeing this same offense next year either, but certainly could be.

I'm looking at it that way as well, but then they need a big target at TE for the red zone. I'm looking at you Darnell Washington. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, derp said:

Yeah I think it’s absolutely a chicken or the egg type thing too. I have the go balls to Moore against Cincinnati burned into my head. They’ve taken a couple shots to Mims too.

Conceptually I think they understand the need to stretch the field in that manner but they don’t value it above YAC and the ability to play all three positions. So while Mims can do that and it’d add something I don’t think they’ll put him on the field just to do that, if that makes sense. And without Mims the rest of the room just isn’t especially at it, so there’s no real reason to do it since it really doesn’t threaten defenses.

I could be wrong but that’s my read. I also don’t know if we’ll necessarily be seeing this same offense next year either, but certainly could be.

Thats maybe certainly part of it,  When you see us throw go balls they are super schemed up, usually a wheel from a slot position in a Pow concept, or someone taking a shot in a flood concept that usually you dont take.  Thats just been my read on it as I've watched this year.  A lot of the shots Lafleur just likes to scheme to the numbers from a tight position on either a cross or a bender/corner.  All well and good I just think he has his preference on how to do things. 

In regards to the offense next year, if I had to make a bet today, I think it stays the same and stinks again next year and everyone gets fired haha.  Thats probably the pessimistic fan in me saying that, but it takes a great deal of introspection to look at yourself and realize that what youre doing is probably hurting the development of the team.  He is just being too rigid with how he's running things and not playing to his guys strengths.  I would hope that in the offseason there is a concerted effort to be more flexible with the system and work outside of it in order to maximize the talent we have, but until I see that i cannot have faith in it happening.  

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I'm looking at it that way as well, but then they need a big target at TE for the red zone. I'm looking at you Darnell Washington. 

isnt that what we thought Uzomah was going to be for? 6'6 isnt enough? 

Its not the size of the guys we have, its the fact that we just do not scheme things right in the redzone.  We make it so much harder on ourselves that it needs to be.  

Go watch the chiefs in the redzone, hell even watch the giants. Brilliant concepts to make things very easy (not saying they are always completed for TD's but they have a plan down there to get guys open). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

isnt that what we thought Uzomah was going to be for? 6'6 isnt enough? 

Its not the size of the guys we have, its the fact that we just do not scheme things right in the redzone.  We make it so much harder on ourselves that it needs to be.  

Go watch the chiefs in the redzone, hell even watch the giants. Brilliant concepts to make things very easy (not saying they are always completed for TD's but they have a plan down there to get guys open). 

I highly respect your opinion and agree Uzomah is huge, but why aren't they going to him and Mims in the red zone? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I highly respect your opinion and agree Uzomah is huge, but why aren't they going to him and Mims in the red zone? 

Why?  I dont think anyone but Lafleur himself could give you an accurate answer on that.  

You want my opinion?  we try to come up with the perfect concept, the perfect scheme to beat what we think their coverage will be, but we just havent been able to execute from either a WR route standpoint or a QB timing standpoint.  

To me, theres a distinct lack of creativity, and a lack of motion in our redzone offense to force matchups that would be more favorable for a mims or a uzomah.  

 

edit:  also a severe lack of a running game diminishes the one aspect of this offense that would play well in the redzone to a TE specifically and thats play action. 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Thats maybe certainly part of it,  When you see us throw go balls they are super schemed up, usually a wheel from a slot position in a Pow concept, or someone taking a shot in a flood concept that usually you dont take.  Thats just been my read on it as I've watched this year.  A lot of the shots Lafleur just likes to scheme to the numbers from a tight position on either a cross or a bender/corner.  All well and good I just think he has his preference on how to do things. 

In regards to the offense next year, if I had to make a bet today, I think it stays the same and stinks again next year and everyone gets fired haha.  Thats probably the pessimistic fan in me saying that, but it takes a great deal of introspection to look at yourself and realize that what youre doing is probably hurting the development of the team.  He is just being too rigid with how he's running things and not playing to his guys strengths.  I would hope that in the offseason there is a concerted effort to be more flexible with the system and work outside of it in order to maximize the talent we have, but until I see that i cannot have faith in it happening.  

If I’m reading that right you see things staying the same because you see MLF sticking around right? I don’t think I believe he’d adjust stuff either. That said, I could see Woody meddling a little and saying listen something needs to happen if the team at best lost five of the last six (maybe the last six) and something needs to happen.

Saleh is stubborn with some stuff but he also tends to say all the right things and then not necessarily act in accordance with what he’s said - thinking in particular with Zach Wilson. So I do kind of believe in one way or another a holistic look at the offense will take place and if they find MLF just isn’t getting it done I could see going in a different direction. No clue what that direction would be, but honestly the offense is lacking identity and inflexible pieces enough they could scrap it.

Also a very distinct possibility that he looks at personnel like he did with Ulbrich and says this is what’s holding the offense back so MLF sticks. That said, one of my big beefs with this offense and with the Zach Wilson pick at the time was that this offense is supposed to make things easy on the QB. I could see Saleh looking at something like Purdy in SF and saying listen this just isn’t working. I don’t think it happens but I’m not ready to rule it out either.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...