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Are The Jets Obligated to Play Zach in 2023


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Obligated?  No but will he pay at all next year?  Maybe.  Guys play bad, guys get hurt you never know.

Despite the usual hope by fans that he gets dumped for the price of a few footballs, Douglas has shown he does not operate that way and will be willing to hold on to him.  Some team always loses a starter or their vet QB is failing and Douglas ill try and pry some assets.

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1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Hes not playing right now.  We are talking about next year. 

If he looks great in camp and beats out whoever else is here, he is the starter.  If not, we spend the year developing him more.  Its not that complicated.

Nah. He would have to do something crazy to not literally cause the franchise to lose value. Woody would be lucky they suspended the blackout policy.

 

People would stop buying tickets and watching.

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  • Let's say Zach was coming out of HS, and like 1000s of other HS QBs, he ran around and had a strong arm but not pro fundamentals.  He is still a strong college prospect-3 star recruit.  Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields were 5 star.  He was the 398th ranked HS recruit.  224 players are drafted.  FWIW, Sam Darnold was a 4 star recruit, ranked 115.  He played LB mostly in HS.
  • But in any event, a college would then try to develop a HS QB, into something.  At BYU, playing the schools they did, having someone like Zach worked fine.  Wyoming with Josh Allen was similar.  Depending on the prospect, a college can get a HS QB going pretty quick to being productive.
  • The Bills and his personal coaches got Josh Allen playing a version of NFL football.  The Ravens created an offense for Lamar Jackson.   The Jets and Zach Wilson basically did nothing to develop Zach Wilson for MFL's offense OR to develop an offense for Zach Wilson. 
  • So now, 2+ years later, Zach Wilson needs to become some type of NFL QB.
  • Back up QBs are not free.  Zach's bonus is a sunk cost.  If Zach could be traded, FOR ANYTHING, you do that because they take his salary.  Otherwise I would keep him on the roster as QB 2/3. The other QB can be someone signed or drafted, like a Bryce Petty. 
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30 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

How could you possibly see Zach as the starter here?

He has been atrociously atrocious.

He has gotten worse, not better.

He has lost the locker room.

The Jets are ready to win now.

The fans will boo him with every bad throw.

2 goals in the NFL:  win or at least fill the seats trying.  Zach fails in both regards.

It is not what I want. Let's be clear but the history of the NFL would suggest otherwise.

It was incumbent on the coaching staff to develop Zach. They didn't. It is also obvious that the CS did not do what Baltimore did with Lamar and even Flacco and develop the system around the QB. There is always a scapegoat in a situation like this and it won't be Zach. Outside of the Rosen situation (who had the #1 pick) teams do not give up on their $30 million #2 pick that still has elite skills.  They may trade him but JD will not give him away and they are not lying when they say they still believe in him. LaFleur barring a playoff run from White will be fired at a minimum.

The Jets are not really ready to win now. We have a Championship caliber defense but the team is in disarray. Our cap situation is not great, we have a lot of players to sign outside of QB and there will be significant roster turnover again. We could have 15 new players next year or more on the roster. If the Jets pursue a $30 million QB we might not re-sign some key players or have the ability to fix the OL which is a complete shambles. Another reason they may roll with Zach

The Jets will not make the decision based on fans booing especially if they can blame the OC. If JD Saleh and new OC can fix Zach they will do that. 

The Jets will sell out regardless of who is at QB.

Again, not what I would do. I would move on. But don't be shocked if the Jets do not.

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3 minutes ago, PS17 said:

I’d go higher than 80 percent. Zach is radioactive. The team hates him as the quarterback and he’s shown no improvement. He’s gone. 

Agree. I was being sporting with the >50% figure. I place it at Ivory percentage 99.44%.

Aside: never understood that ad campaign. Something that is 0.56% poison can kill you.

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1 minute ago, Warfish said:

You mean the worst producing starting QB in the NFL in both his 1st and 2nd seasons, hurt twice in two years, booed off the field he's so bad and benched now twice in the middle of a run at the playoffs? 

That guy?

"But muh flashes! But muh 'elite arm talent'!"

I wonder who you'd turn out to be if the mods ran an IP check, lol.

Some will violently defend him until he’s off the team and then tell us to STFU and stop talking about him as soon as he is gone.

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4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

You mean the worst producing starting QB in the NFL in both his 1st and 2nd seasons, hurt twice in two years, booed off the field he's so bad and benched now twice in the middle of a run at the playoffs? 

That guy?

"But muh flashes! But muh 'elite arm talent'!"

I wonder who you'd turn out to be if the mods ran an IP check, lol.

https://thecomeback.com/nfl/trevor-lawrence-worst-start-all-time.html

 

Quote

Trevor Lawrence is off to the worst start of any quarterback selected No. 1 overall.

do you purposely intend to look clueless or is this an act?

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16 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

If the Jets pursue a $30 million QB we might not re-sign some key players or have the ability to fix the OL which is a complete shambles. Another reason they may roll with Zach.

I actually do not necessarily think this is the right answer.  They can't roll with Zach in 2023.  If they can sign a Jimmy G or Carr I think they do that, and unloading Zach's salary would be helpful.  Otherwise you basically do what the Jets did last year-try and develop the offense with no defense.  Quinnen plays on year 5, and guys like JFM, Mosley, Lawson go.  We sign and draft OL and WR, and then work on defense in 2024.  

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Worst production in the NFL, by a meaningful margin, two years running.

Abandonment of responsibility.  

Offense produces much better whenever he isn't in.

What part of this surprises you my friend? 

The "Just Needs a Change of Scenery" fallacy.

Except the Rosen occurrence isn't singular.  Several QB's have warranted being dumped from the league early for being obvious and complete busts with almost no chance of recovery.  

Draft investment is usually all the saves them, the Sunk Cost fallacy at work as usual. 

Yeah you're barking up the wrong tree if you think you're getting a rise or pushback from me to move on. He sucks. Big arm, quick release, was supposed to be smart & hard working; bfd he sucks.

I don't get why you need to justify or rationalize the fans' reactions to me. I never questioned the justification; it only matters that it is so.

My point was squarely to illustrate that the one who needs convincing is the GM, not posters here who have no say. 

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2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Nice synopsis but I thinknthere is a little more to it that is going to make JD give Zach every possible chance. We don't  know for sure but JD was supposedly  offered trades to move from the 2nd overall  selection and wouldn't  budge. I believe theb9ers and one other team made offers. JD was so sold on Zach, that this was the guy, he wouldn't  even consider the offers. Also in Zachs first season JD brought in no competition, not even 0 competition.  So there were a bunch of missteps in how this whole thing was handled that JD is going g to have to own and I think he might believe in his third season, Zach will figure it out. 

Now let me say I don't  agree, but I just think this will be a bitter pill to swallow. 

That was 2 seasons prior, though. Wilson no longer has a clean slate, the coaches didn't bench him yet (let alone 3x in 2 seasons; I don't believe the phantom injury last year kept him out a month); the fans didn't boo him on any non-1st down then; the owner didn't already have less-than-optimistic things to say about him; none of it.

Take a known bust whose career is long over, despite the high hopes, like Leinart. 2 years in, 3 years in, whatever; by the time his name was mud he hadn't lost any skill since the day he was drafted.

There are exceptions to the rule, and yes there are a number of players over the years who took years to get it before the likes of Geno Smith, but even back then they were less likely. Even less-so now; the next chance someone gets after that is after riding the pine for a while until - sometimes the player's next team - just has to try something else (or there is no one else to go to at a certain point in time). Tannehill, Mariota, Geno, Brees, etc. 

But those are stepped-in-shit occurrences. You don't bet on them because for every 1 there are 20 who don't turn it around, and this isn't a roster about to undergo a major gutting followed by a start of a rebuild. This is a playoff team at worst, with merely an average NFL starting the whole way. 

Anyway like I was saying to warfish, it's not our decision & we're not the ones who need convincing. It's Douglas, and whether he wants to stick his neck out over Wilson again. He's going to survive Wilson getting benched; as a sheer career politics move, he's better off if he isn't the lone man in the building who wants to stick with Wilson, only to (very likely) see him continue to flop. 

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6 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

It is not what I want. Let's be clear but the history of the NFL would suggest otherwise.

It was incumbent on the coaching staff to develop Zach. They didn't. It is also obvious that the CS did not do what Baltimore did with Lamar and even Flacco and develop the system around the QB. There is always a scapegoat in a situation like this and it won't be Zach. Outside of the Rosen situation (who had the #1 pick) teams do not give up on their $30 million #2 pick that still has elite skills.  They may trade him but JD will not give him away and they are not lying when they say they still believe in him. LaFleur barring a playoff run from White will be fired at a minimum.

The Jets are not really ready to win now. We have a Championship caliber defense but the team is in disarray. Our cap situation is not great, we have a lot of players to sign outside of QB and there will be significant roster turnover again. We could have 15 new players next year or more on the roster. If the Jets pursue a $30 million QB we might not re-sign some key players or have the ability to fix the OL which is a complete shambles. Another reason they may roll with Zach

The Jets will not make the decision based on fans booing especially if they can blame the OC. If JD Saleh and new OC can fix Zach they will do that. 

The Jets will sell out regardless of who is at QB.

Again, not what I would do. I would move on. But don't be shocked if the Jets do not.

Listen you’re clearly smart and can put together a sound argument but the reality of every situation is mostly unique.

In this situation, Zach has worn out his welcome and would be a huge distraction.

There is nothing to hang his hat on, no improvement.  He’s gotten worse..  His mental state is a hot mess, not a great fit for playing in NJ where the boos will rain down every time he misfires.

The Jets would have 10 wins this year with solid QB play.  They still might get to 9.

Guys like Garrett Wilson, Sauce Gardner, Quinnen Williams, Breece Hall and Alijah Vera Tucker are All Pro caliber players.  They’re 21-25 years old and will only get better..  

DJ Reed is a Pro Bowl caliber CB.  Bryce Huff is a very good situational pass rusher.  The promising duo of Johnson & Clemons will make Carl Lawson a distant memory.  These 2 have upped their game in recent weeks.  Most of these guys play premium positions.

Upgrade QB to even average starter, upgrade Center & Right Guard and get faster at free safety and linebacker.  Frankly, all of this ia very doable with our full suite of draft picks and the ability to cut guys like Lawson & Corey Davis with minimal dead cap space.  

Im sorry, even the tea leaves are telling you the Jets don’t feel the pressure to keep trotting Zach out there.  He’s been benched twice, isn’t even on the active roster.

The only way he comes back from this is if he cures his fragile mental state (YIPs, whatever you want to call it).  A tall task by itself over 1 off-season.  Even so, while that might explain his inaccuracy and crapping the bed after a bad play, it likely doesn’t explain his slow processing speed and failure to see the field.  

This was a miss by a good GM.  A guy smart enough to move forward and not triple down on  clear mistakes.  

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8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah you're barking up the wrong tree if you think you're getting a rise…

I see a post. I respond to a post. /shrug

Getting a rise never entered my mind.

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

My point was squarely to illustrate that the one who needs convincing is the GM, not posters here who have no say. 

Was it?

If so, it’s a rather obvious point but a factual one none the less. Of course the GM will make the call. 

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2 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Hes not playing right now.  We are talking about next year. 

If he looks great in camp and beats out whoever else is here, he is the starter.  If not, we spend the year developing him more.  Its not that complicated.

It’s definitely complicated.

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3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I think even JD will have to admit the extreme unlikeliness that it'll happen here for ZW, if it happens anywhere eventually. The fan base has already turned on him -- ffs every time there wasn't a positive gain enough for a 1st down he was booed, and then team pet Streveler was cheered when he came onto the field. That's on top of whatever % of truth their is to some leaks that the coaches - Saleh and probably his handpicked OC - don't like him (as a QB, personally, or both). Then the latest that Woody certainly hasn't been all-in on him, at least of late, and for all the foil hat stuff ranging from 'meddling' to 'jetblue' it appears Woody has been totally hands-off with this in terms of letting JD do what he wants; that even if he was consulted on everything from Saleh to Zach, he never vetoed anything or forced an alternative. @Mogglez would be the one to chime on on that guess, if he can or is willing, but that's how things look.

Sum of that? Even if JD believes ZW could still be a successful QB is he really going to take the goodwill from his 2022 draft piss stream & turn 180 degrees into the wind? He can say he believes in ZW but everyone else in the bldg is telling him Zach has to go, and imo that's enough coverage for him in terms of job security; but if he is the last man standing, and keeps Wilson - never mind forcing him to be the starter by providing no one else credible in his stead - he's putting his whole future career on a mental bundle of nerves who no longer has the benefit of a clean slate & now has to further turn around a coaching staff and a fanbase (and probably the owner, too). 

Summary: even if JD still believes Zach can be a good starter, and that could/would be sooner rather than later, his (GM career) life will go on without Wilson but not if he forces Wilson onto the team and it fails for a 3rd yr in a row. He's only 46, and sure he probably has more than enough to retire on (6 yrs gtd at I'm guessing ~$4MM/yr) does he really want to unnecessarily gamble the rest of his GM future on this kid? That's a bad bet, and the risk vs. reward doesn't add up when he can add an average QB (or maybe pair White with a Minshew type) and make the playoffs that way to earn an extension.

Douglas isn't new to front offices & ought to be mature enough to realize that even the best GMs - and all those with a better & more successful track record - swing & miss on guys they absolutely "knew" were the goods & then just weren't. 

I agree with everything you just said. Joe Douglas is a smart guy, so I don't believe he's so stubborn and prideful that he'll bet his career on Zach Wilson turning it around here with the Jets. Moving Zach Wilson isn't just in the best interest of Joe Douglas, but it's in the best interest of Zach Wilson. If Zach ever has a chance to develop as a quarterback he's better off on a team he can sit and learn from an offensive coordinator who has a track record developing young quarterbacks. In my opinion, Zach would have been better off getting drafted by Kyle Shannahan, but JD refused to trade down in 2021.

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1 minute ago, Warfish said:

I see a post. I respond to a post. /shrug

Getting a rise never entered my mind.

Was it?

If so, it’s a rather obvious point but a factual one none the less. Of course the GM will make the call. 

I mean my post in terms of the ultimate decision was about what's the risk/reward for Douglas, not for the Jets, or even getting into whatever odds there are (for Wilson) of being a consistent starting QB. 

Streveler isn't a QB and they all knew it in-house. The fans' cheers for him came before he even ran his first play, not after outperforming Wilson as you suggested the reason was. It's irrelevant why - it matters only that it is - in terms of the fans' distaste for Wilson at this stage. 

The point is how, whatever low the odds are of him turning his career around, the odds are probably lower-still here. Even if he can, it's not going to happen when he's without a friend in the building. Anyone can see that's affecting him, as he's even worse now than he was at the start of the year or even than last year ffs.

Furthermore this isn't the first year before a tear-down or entering the first year post-teardown, where there's no opportunity lost by him sucking for another season. This is a good team right now, and its most obvious weakness is fielding a decent QB for 3 straight games. So whatever tolerance there might have been from the fans is justifiably gone & won't come back until the situation here again looks similarly hopeless even with an established good QB, which he clearly isn't. 

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56 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

It is not what I want. Let's be clear but the history of the NFL would suggest otherwise.

It was incumbent on the coaching staff to develop Zach. They didn't. It is also obvious that the CS did not do what Baltimore did with Lamar and even Flacco and develop the system around the QB. There is always a scapegoat in a situation like this and it won't be Zach. Outside of the Rosen situation (who had the #1 pick) teams do not give up on their $30 million #2 pick that still has elite skills.  They may trade him but JD will not give him away and they are not lying when they say they still believe in him. LaFleur barring a playoff run from White will be fired at a minimum.

The Jets are not really ready to win now. We have a Championship caliber defense but the team is in disarray. Our cap situation is not great, we have a lot of players to sign outside of QB and there will be significant roster turnover again. We could have 15 new players next year or more on the roster. If the Jets pursue a $30 million QB we might not re-sign some key players or have the ability to fix the OL which is a complete shambles. Another reason they may roll with Zach

The Jets will not make the decision based on fans booing especially if they can blame the OC. If JD Saleh and new OC can fix Zach they will do that. 

The Jets will sell out regardless of who is at QB.

Again, not what I would do. I would move on. But don't be shocked if the Jets do not.

great post

this fanbase is DELUSIONAL

Zach will get another year god willing with a new OC who has WORKED WITH QB DEVELOPMENT BEFORE

or at the least, get a specialist in here who knows what the **** they are doing

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6 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

This is a question I have been asking myself. I think there is virtually no chance JD trades Zach for anything less that what we got for Darnold so I think Zach is still here in 2023. So let's  say he is for argument sake. If MW plays well in the next two games and dare I say the playoffs, will the Jets have an obligation to see if Zach improved and play him in real games. I don't think we can go off the preseason and camp, I think we will not get a clear picture that way. 

Play him in real games next year, so long FO and CS.

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A QB that ends up inactive every other week will not be back. JD will have no problem pulling a trade for a 4th or 5th on this bust.


I do not think they let ZW go for a 4th or 5th.

More likely he sits or is even relegated to the practice squad.

Perhaps they even hire a guru to work with him until he is ready to rejoin the active roster.




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It will be better for both parties if Zach isn't even on the Jets next season. Zach gets a reset and can work his way through the depth chart of a different team and the Jets can look at viable QB options without a distraction. Getting rid of Zach will make the fans (and probably players) happy and I'm sure Zach isn't a big fan of being under the (earned) scrutiny of the NY media and fans. Team can move on and focus on improving the team, with likely a draft pick from a trade, especially if JD works some more of his magic. It's a win win situation at this point and I don't really see any major reason to keep him.

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1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

Absolutely Not. Mike White should be the starter next year he's earned it, has the respect of his coaches, teammates and fans.

Has he? 

He's only played a few games with a single win (to date) this year. The coaches felt he had such a bad camp that they placed him behind Flacco and (perhaps unrelated) the team signed a fourth QB on the practice squad. The organization only signed him on a one year deal last year. A lot of the players seem to like him. No argument on that one.

The remainder of the season might be an audition for the starting job but short of consistently spectacular play I would be surprised if they handed him the job. IMO it is more probable that either Douglas brings in a vet starter to get the job or there is an open competition in the offseason. He a FA heading into next year and I would guess he's looking for a starting role or at least a meaningful opportunity to compete. He might decide to test FA for a better opportunity or a longer contract. Douglas doesn't strike me as a GM who is going to let a backup bully him into a multi-year starter value contract after a few wins.

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I mean my post in terms of the ultimate decision was about what's the risk/reward for Douglas, not for the Jets, or even getting into whatever odds there are (for Wilson) of being a consistent starting QB. 

It seems weird then, that a major point then (and below) is that the fans cheered for Strev before he took the field. 

That has nothing to do with JD being responsible for making the decision.

Ultimately, if I missed your point, then apologies.

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Streveler isn't a QB and they all knew it in-house. The fans' cheers for him came before he even ran his first play, not after outperforming Wilson as you suggested the reason was. It's irrelevant why - it matters only that it is - in terms of the fans' distaste for Wilson at this stage.

If it's irrelevant why, why bring it up, twice?  I am legit confused at this point.

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The point is how, whatever low the odds are of him turning his career around, the odds are probably lower-still here. Even if he can, it's not going to happen when he's without a friend in the building. Anyone can see that's affecting him, as he's even worse now than he was at the start of the year or even than last year ffs.

I don't disagree.  I simply don't think there is any chance he "turns it around".  Here, or anywhere else.

And I don't agree it has anything to do with us, our staff or the amount of 'support in the building'.  He was a bad pick, he's a bad player.  Utterly unready for the NFL, without most of the skills needed for the NFL game.  As happens, JD and Co. was lured by "elite arm strength" and hyperinflated numbers vs. sub-par opposition.

Out him on the Pats at their peak, he still sucks.  JMO.

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Furthermore this isn't the first year before a tear-down or entering the first year post-teardown, where there's no opportunity lost by him sucking for another season.

I disagree fundamentally with this mindset.  Any wasted year is opportunity lost.  But that's an aside to this exchange...

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

This is a good team right now, and its most obvious weakness is fielding a decent QB for 3 straight games.

Agreed.  RB and running the ball is a close 2nd right now.

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

So whatever tolerance there might have been from the fans is justifiably gone & won't come back until the situation here again looks similarly hopeless even with an established good QB, which he clearly isn't. 

Fair enough.

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Last season the Jets hired John Beck a former BYU and NFL Qb and Zach’s personal QB coach going back to college to tutor him during the season acting like a supplemental QB coach on the team. After that Zach improved the second half of season and had no picks his last 5 starts. I read an article that there could have been some friction with that arrangement. The Jets didn’t rehire Beck for 2022. Anyways if it worked and he played better why not keep the arrangement. https://www.deseret.com/2022/6/13/23166366/why-john-beck-wont-be-working-with-zach-wilson-in-an-official-capacity-with-new-york-jets-2022

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