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This team was built a certain way


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6 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

‘Tis the season for opinion pieces on what went wrong, so here’s my entry.

This team, even before the TC injuries, was built a certain way.  That was to run the ball, play low risk offensive football, and try to control the clock and let the  defense keep us in games.

The early part of the year, it was working.  The running game was consistent and making big plays.  

Then Hall and AVT got hurt in Denver and we no longer could run the ball. Davis missed a ton of time, and he’s very important part of the run game. We could no longer hide the QB and the defense could only do so much.

Come at me with the “no excuses” stuff, but it’s the reality of the situation.  To try and change your complete identity mid season is not an easy task.

 

Oh definitely. The HC and GM are NOT supposed to come out and say it but it was the injuries. And they'd be telling the truth. Could not overcome the injuries. 

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6 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I partially agree but the defense was as much responsible as the rest of the team.

The part you forgot in your original post about success of the team is turnovers and special teams.

It could be argued that those two kick returns cost us two games, at least one.

Our defense despite stats played badly as time went on creating almost no turnovers and playing bad in spots even todays game, first two drives to set the tone?  They got 100% owned.

During this 5 game losing streak?   0 interceptions 1 fumble recovery.

For sure, definitely should have included ST.  When you play that brand of football, ST has to be a strength, ours was a weakness.

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I said it back then, I’ve maintained my stance all along, and I’ll say it again today - Breece and AVT going down will cost us the season.

This team was constructed to hide the QB, have a dominant run game, and have the QB take deep shots off of playaction only a handful of times per game.

The end result obviously sucks, but man other than ‘15, this was the first Jets season I truly enjoyed and was engaged since 2010. Future (outside of QB) is bright. There’s a lot that needs to happen and a lot that needs to get fixed, and while I do think we have the FO and coaching staff to do it, ultimately it’s all going to depend on who’s playing QB next year. 

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You’re fooling yourself if you think you can look at this team and pinpoint one issue with it. QB is the flashy one, but they had good QB play in games and still lost. The biggest issues are:

1) QB - this one’s best to death and needs it’s own thread (and oh look there’s 25 of them just today)

2) playcalling - MLF can look like a genius at times, and other times it’s like he’s playing madden (badly). He over or undercommits way too much

3) pass rush - look at the games where the defense dominated, and you will see it started with good pass rush. The last 5 games the pass rush was a shell of its former self. They need another player that can get to the QB and help Q out. 

4) linebacker and safety play - the Jets have good corners, but safeties and linebackers have significant skill, speed, and size gaps. And they blow A LOT of coverage and give up way to many home run plays. The Jets need a true stud at linebacker. They also need someone to fit better with MCII’s play style.

5) WR - I was really starting to like Cory Davis this year, but he ain’t it. They need another WR to take pressure off of Wilson, and Moore needs to move to the slot or move to another team

6) the big one - offensive line. Revolving door all year, ruined all the momentum the team had from MW, and generally had bad games. This also deserves it’s own thread. None of QB play issues are going to get better if this doesn’t improve 

Edit: just realized i put this in the wrong thread. I agree with OPs point, but I don’t feel like moving it

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Agreed. 
But it is really concerning how this team handle the QB situation this year. Knapp passed and they still didn’t bring in a veteran coach in the offseason even though ZW needed Beck during last year. And still didn’t bring in a capable back up. 

My worry is they just think a veteran QB will make everything better. 

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49 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

‘Tis the season for opinion pieces on what went wrong, so here’s my entry.

This team, even before the TC injuries, was built a certain way.  That was to run the ball, play low risk offensive football, and try to control the clock and let the  defense keep us in games.

The early part of the year, it was working.  The running game was consistent and making big plays.  

Then Hall and AVT got hurt in Denver and we no longer could run the ball. Davis missed a ton of time, and he’s very important part of the run game. We could no longer hide the QB and the defense could only do so much.

Come at me with the “no excuses” stuff, but it’s the reality of the situation.  To try and change your complete identity mid season is not an easy task.

 

There is no doubt that losing Breece and AVT at the exact same time was a massive blow.  Still doesn’t excuse us because we lost some winnable games down the stretch 

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55 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

The Jets played with a backup like 50% of the year at QB.

Josh Allen is not a backup and we beat him at home even without Hall and AVT. It would be nice to know why it fell apart after that and that game Wilson started at QB. At this point the coaching staff has to take the brunt of what went wrong after that losing 6 of the next 7 games.

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19 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Agreed. 
But it is really concerning how this team handle the QB situation this year. Knapp passed and they still didn’t bring in a veteran coach in the offseason even though ZW needed Beck during last year. And still didn’t bring in a capable back up. 

My worry is they just think a veteran QB will make everything better. 

This is my fear too. Gotta be Carr or Jimmy G, I'm not sure how else you feel confident going into next year.

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1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said:

‘Tis the season for opinion pieces on what went wrong, so here’s my entry.

This team, even before the TC injuries, was built a certain way.  That was to run the ball, play low risk offensive football, and try to control the clock and let the  defense keep us in games.

The early part of the year, it was working.  The running game was consistent and making big plays.  

Then Hall and AVT got hurt in Denver and we no longer could run the ball. Davis missed a ton of time, and he’s very important part of the run game. We could no longer hide the QB and the defense could only do so much.

Come at me with the “no excuses” stuff, but it’s the reality of the situation.  To try and change your complete identity mid season is not an easy task.

 

Agree with everything you said here, especially the bold - we're just not a threat on the ground and we simply do not have a quarterback on the roster that can consistently overcome that. 

The optimist in me sees a new young core to this team that is pretty f***ing talented.

Garrett Wilson, Sauce, AVT, Breece, Quinnen - all five of those dudes are absolute studs. And we're not talking about "oh they flashed a bit", we're talking perennial pro bowler, foundation pieces. 

The downside is we busted on Wilson and Mike White isn't gonna be the next Tony Romo. 

It might not be the most appealing or satisfying take, but we're probably best served as a franchise by keeping this current regime, signing one of the veteran starting quarterbacks available and drafting an offensive tackle in the first round. 

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1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said:

‘Tis the season for opinion pieces on what went wrong, so here’s my entry.

This team, even before the TC injuries, was built a certain way.  That was to run the ball, play low risk offensive football, and try to control the clock and let the  defense keep us in games.

The early part of the year, it was working.  The running game was consistent and making big plays.  

Then Hall and AVT got hurt in Denver and we no longer could run the ball. Davis missed a ton of time, and he’s very important part of the run game. We could no longer hide the QB and the defense could only do so much.

Come at me with the “no excuses” stuff, but it’s the reality of the situation.  To try and change your complete identity mid season is not an easy task.

 

Correct.

But I think MLF has shown he will pass in this offense as well when he has to. Effectively. And you need that to win. For example, the Jets were winning those early games 'despite Zach'. This was when AVT and Hall were healthy and Zach was still winning games (I don't remember exactly when those two got hurt). But the Jets were not going to keep winning 'despite Zach'. Even if Hall and AVT stayed healthy. Its an unsustainable formula. You need a good QB. 

Yes, this team is 'built' around defense, running the ball, and controlling the clock with a short to intermediate passing attack. 

But it all comes down to the QB position for the Jets this year. Its clear as day. Zach massively underachieved and Mike White was never expected to be the answer (lo and behold, despite some promising play, it doesn't look at all like he is the answer).

JD should have one priority- bringing in a legitimate, proven starter at QB. Everything else is secondary. 

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58 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Essentially you are saying that Breece and AVT helped overcome an incompetent OC and a brain dead team philosohy.

That’s really not what I’m saying at all actually.  That’s what you believe and that’s fine.

Essentially what I’m saying is the two best offensive players the Jets had for what they “wanted to be” got hurt and a tail spin followed.

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You don’t have to go from a running team to throwing the ball 50 times per game either. No matter how good you think Mike White might be, you could at least try to stick to a game plan, instead of becoming Mike White Stans. Hopefully they will now see that Mike White will never be the answer, and stick to a plan. 3 games with no TDs and 4 INTs cannot be tolerated.  I don’t care how many yards he throws. The OC has to go. He has to take the most blame for most of this. I can live with this defense, if we make a few adjustments at LB and Safety and stay with the running game scheme. Trash MW. Get a vet QB and have ZW as a backup.  

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32 minutes ago, JETS SB said:

You don’t have to go from a running team to throwing the ball 50 times per game either. No matter how good you think Mike White might be, you could at least try to stick to a game plan, instead of becoming Mike White Stans. Hopefully they will now see that Mike White will never be the answer, and stick to a plan. 3 games with no TDs and 4 INTs cannot be tolerated.  I don’t care how many yards he throws. The OC has to go. He has to take the most blame for most of this. I can live with this defense, if we make a few adjustments at LB and Safety and stay with the running game scheme. Trash MW. Get a vet QB and have ZW as a backup.  

The thing is, despite the breakdowns on defense due to the LBs/Safeties. The Jets defense as a unit, was still very good. They did not give up very many TDs in the streak of losses they suffered during this collapse. Against some good offenses. Not backup QBs. The Jets just could not score any points!!! And they were constantly in poor field position and finding themselves behind because their offense could not move the ball and put points on the board.

The adjustments on defense do not have to be major. The Jets have to make some decisions on FAs (Joyner, Quincy, Kwon, Rankins) and there may be cap casualties (Lawson? Mosley?). But other than that, this defense is fine. It's very good and should only get better with some of the young players going into year 2 (JJ, Sauce, Clemons). 

I think it is easy to criticize. But we all talked about this. Teams stack the box against the Jets (whether its MW or Zach) and force them to pass the ball. You have to be able to pass the ball to win. MLF could not just run the ball to hide MW, regardless of how the team is built. There needs to be a REAL threat of the pass. The Jets need a legitimate starting QB. Not a new OC. Not to say that a different OC wouldn't also work. But without a QB, it won't matter. 

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