Derek Carr fixes this immediately

[slimjasi]

59 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Reportedly offered.

Maybe my disappointment is how often the Jets fail to seal the deal on anyone of real value.

We often show interest (or reportedly do), then nothing happens.  We fail to seal the deal.

Same ol' Jets.

Because nobody with choices wants to be part of the “same old jets.” Would you want that burden?  

And the longer we go without so much as a single playoff appearance, the worse that will get. 
 

This is why I have said for years that salvation comes from within for terrible franchises like the jets. We need to find our stars through the draft until we can actually display a modicum of competence and success. 

[Sonny Werblin]

48 minutes ago, SoFlaJets said:

It's amazing, simply replace Kirk Cousins' name with that. of Derek Carr'as name and this article could have been written last night:

If you’re a New York Jets fan who doesn’t want the team to pursue Kirk Cousins in free agency, the following letter is for you. 

To my fellow New York Jets fan,

 

Despite our beloved team’s continual failure to find a competent starting quarterback, it has come to my attention that you don’t want the Jets to pursue Kirk Cousins in free agency.

I want you to know that I understand your position.

After all, NFL insiders are speculating that signing Cousins will cost a fortune, with one controversial report suggesting that the Vikings may offer him $30+ million/year for 3 years.

$30 million a year is a scary number right? For Jets fans who don’t understand their team’s salary cap situation or the intricacies of quarterback contracts in the NFL, I understand why that $30 million figure would be enough to scare them away from Cousins.

Of course, the Jets currently have almost $90 million in cap space. And quarterback contracts in the NFL are always excessively high and continually rising (see Jimmy Gaoppolo’s record-setting deal with the 49ers). So from that perspective, it would seem like paying Cousins $30 million/ year is both reasonable and affordable for the Jets.

Don’t get me wrong, though, fellow fan. I understand that your irrational dislike of Cousins transcends his high cost. You also argue that he isn’t a good quarterback.

When asked why you don’t think Cousins is a good quarterback, you’ll inevitably stammer out some convoluted stat about how he hasn’t won a playoff game.

Never mind that Cousins has posted a 2/1 TD/INT ratio or had 4,000+ yards passing/season for each of the past three years. Never mind that Cousins threw for over 300 yards with 1 TD and 0 INT in his one playoff start. If your gut tells you Cousins isn’t good, that’s all that you need to know, right?

In summary, Jets fan who doesn’t want Cousins, this is your position. You think he costs too much, even though his next NFL contract will be reasonable (within the league’s structure for paying quarterbacks), and the Jets have more than enough money to pay him. You also don’t think he’s good, even though every single available statistic designed to gauge quarterback play disagrees with you.

And in typical New York sports fan fashion, there is no amount of logic, reason, or numbers that I could provide that would ever change your mind. So I won’t try to.

I want you to know that I’m with you, fellow Jets fan. I understand and support your right to embrace your gut instinct over common sense. And considering you’re probably the kind of fan who prefers ranting on social media to reading, I hope you’re nevertheless able to see this letter.

 

 

 

This could NOT have been written last night because the Jets do not have $90 million in cap space.

Why do people think we have the money to pay Carr or Garrapolo? Are we signing them for $12 million or less?

[Barry McCockinner]

13 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

This could NOT have been written last night because the Jets do not have $90 million in cap space.

Why do people think we have the money to pay Carr or Garrapolo? Are we signing them for $12 million or less?

I think the Jets can extend QW and sign Derek Carr without having much issue getting under the cap. You push money out to later years and do some GM magic cap manipulation. We have over 100 million available in 2024 right now. Easy to dip into that year.

 

[Sonny Werblin]

1 minute ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I think the Jets can extend QW and sign Derek Carr without having much issue getting under the cap. You push money out to later years and do some GM magic cap manipulation.

 

So, how much do you think Carr's contract will be and while you're are it, how much will Q's second contract be?

[Barry McCockinner]

Just now, Sonny Werblin said:

So, how much do you think Carr's contract will be and while you're are it, how much will Q's second contract be?

I don't know, I'm just saying we have way more room to work with in the cap than what you see in 2023. The contracts span multiple years, and the cap is always rising. It's almost like the cap is fake.

[bonkertons]

2 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I think we need to dispel this notion that the Jets are somehow "buyers" in the 2023 free agent QB market. That is unless the Jets cap situation going forward is somehow being inaccurately reported.

According to Sportrac, as it stands the Jets have $15.6 million in 2023 cap space with multiple expiring contracts to replace and Q to pay. Let's say they restructure Mosely and Uzomah and release Tomlinson and Davis, which frees up about $30.6 million putting them at at what would appear to be a comfortable $46.5 million in cap space. . But, not so fast, they still have to pay Q, and have a bunch of starting spots to fill because of expiring contracts and the players released --  C, G, WR, OLB, FS and K. 

As to Q, Aaron Donald and Chris jones have contracts with cap hits in excess of $25 million. So probably half, or if they get a "deal" from Q, almost half of that cap space is going to Q. But, let's be super unrealistically optimistic and say Q signs a contract with a $20 million cap hit. So, that leaves $26.5 and the Jets need to sign starters at C, G, WR, OLB, FS and K all while paying one of these established high end free agent QB's what exactly? 

Reality is where JD and Saleh live. And that reality does not include signing one of the high end free agent starters. It is also a window into their undying hope that they can make Zach Wilson into a starting QB.

 

Mosley is good as gone IMO.  $17M right there.  Lawson too at $15M.  Add in Berrios, Davis, and Tomlinson, that's about $50M freed up just from cuts.  Add that $15.6M from your UFAs and you're at around $65M.  Add another $10M if Brown retires, but ideally he sticks around for one more year as a backup to our new LT(hopefully a 1st round pick).  

 

Q's cap hit is already about $10M, so if you double that and give him $20M, that only cuts $10M out of that $65M, correct?  Unless I'm misunderstanding how this works.

 

That's $55M leftover now.  Figure Mosley's replacement will be at least $10M, new RG signing another $10M - you're now down to $35M.  Between signing guys like Rankins, Herbig, Quincy, Huff, Zeurlein, and a few others, you're probably down to $20M now.  $20M you need to sign at least a FS, and maybe a C to placehold until your new draft pick is ready.  If the FS is $5M, the draft picks are another $5M, you're down to $10M free.  $10M, for your new QB.  You're looking at Dalton, Minshew, Mike White, etc.  

 

I just don't see any other scenario than Dalton-Zach-rookie/waiver wire pickup - at least for one more year.  I suppose you could go for the big QB addition and sacrifice in other areas like, instead of signing veteran FS and C, you go strictly with rookies.  That's an extra $10M.  Could cheap out at RG and go with Herbig again, bring in a scrap heap pickup to back him up.  That opens another $10M.  Those moves would give you about $20-30M to spend on a QB.  Personally I'd rather strengthen the rest of the roster, give Zach his last year(with an upgrade over MW brought in as the #1), then look for your long-term answer in '24 if Zach still can't do it.  That's Dalton for one year, ideally.  

 

By then you can actually save some money from Zach's cap hit($5M), you can cut JFM and save about $14M; Conklin which is nearly another $7M; you have Whitehead's $7M coming off the books.  Only raises you need to hand out at that point are Becton, if he manages to pull off a miracle and stay on the field in 2023, Hardee, Mims, and Knight.  Nothing that should be too earth shattering, IMO.

 

2024 is the year to go all in on a new QB.  Whether it's a trade/signing, or draft pick.  I think the hurdle will be getting through 2023 without crippling ourselves or making sacrifices that end up hurting us in the long run.  

[Sonny Werblin]

24 minutes ago, bonkertons said:

 

Mosley is good as gone IMO.  $17M right there.  Lawson too at $15M.  Add in Berrios, Davis, and Tomlinson, that's about $50M freed up just from cuts.  Add that $15.6M from your UFAs and you're at around $65M.  Add another $10M if Brown retires, but ideally he sticks around for one more year as a backup to our new LT(hopefully a 1st round pick).  

 

Q's cap hit is already about $10M, so if you double that and give him $20M, that only cuts $10M out of that $65M, correct?  Unless I'm misunderstanding how this works.

 

That's $55M leftover now.  Figure Mosley's replacement will be at least $10M, new RG signing another $10M - you're now down to $35M.  Between signing guys like Rankins, Herbig, Quincy, Huff, Zeurlein, and a few others, you're probably down to $20M now.  $20M you need to sign at least a FS, and maybe a C to placehold until your new draft pick is ready.  If the FS is $5M, the draft picks are another $5M, you're down to $10M free.  $10M, for your new QB.  You're looking at Dalton, Minshew, Mike White, etc.  

 

I just don't see any other scenario than Dalton-Zach-rookie/waiver wire pickup - at least for one more year.  I suppose you could go for the big QB addition and sacrifice in other areas like, instead of signing veteran FS and C, you go strictly with rookies.  That's an extra $10M.  Could cheap out at RG and go with Herbig again, bring in a scrap heap pickup to back him up.  That opens another $10M.  Those moves would give you about $20-30M to spend on a QB.  Personally I'd rather strengthen the rest of the roster, give Zach his last year(with an upgrade over MW brought in as the #1), then look for your long-term answer in '24 if Zach still can't do it.  That's Dalton for one year, ideally.  

 

By then you can actually save some money from Zach's cap hit($5M), you can cut JFM and save about $14M; Conklin which is nearly another $7M; you have Whitehead's $7M coming off the books.  Only raises you need to hand out at that point are Becton, if he manages to pull off a miracle and stay on the field in 2023, Hardee, Mims, and Knight.  Nothing that should be too earth shattering, IMO.

 

2024 is the year to go all in on a new QB.  Whether it's a trade/signing, or draft pick.  I think the hurdle will be getting through 2023 without crippling ourselves or making sacrifices that end up hurting us in the long run.  

I think you have it generally correct but to be precise I think it would be $45.5 savings for cutting Mosely, Davis, Tomlinson and Berrios. And I think Q's new deal having a cap hit of $20 million would be a near miracle with Chris Jones at $29.4 and Aaron Donald at $27 million for their cap hits. For those reasons, I think we probably have about $10 million less to work with than in your summary.

[Barry McCockinner]

2 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I think you have it generally correct but to be precise I think it would be $45.5 savings for cutting Mosely, Davis, Tomlinson and Berrios. And I think Q's new deal having a cap hit of $20 million would be a near miracle with Chris Jones at $29.4 and Aaron Donald at $27 million for their cap hits. For those reasons, I think we probably have about $10 million less to work with than in your summary.

you can't just look at 2023. These contracts span multiple years and GMs strategically stack the cap hits across many years.

[Barton]

Jets should consider franchise tagging quinnen Williams and trading him for a 1st and 3rd rd pick. Use the cap space to builder a better offense. Quinnen was a bleh player until this year, his contract year. Probably not a coincidence. 

[Sonny Werblin]

10 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

you can't just look at 2023. These contracts span multiple years and GMs strategically stack the cap hits across many years.

I'm really not sure what you mean. Do you mean when the contract expires or a player is released resulting in a cap savings? That does happen, but those player must be replaced and that cost money. If you think there is some magical way to enter a contract with huge cap hit one year and then a small one the next, there isn't. There are rules for contracts and cap calculations. The bonus is spread over the life of the contract and the base amount can only vary by a small amount. 

[SickJetFan]

3 minutes ago, Barton said:

Jets should consider franchise tagging quinnen Williams and trading him for a 1st and 3rd rd pick. Use the cap space to builder a better offense. Quinnen was a bleh player until this year, his contract year. Probably not a coincidence. 

i would be somewhat down with this

what worries me though is defense takes a nose dive w/o him

[Barton]

Just now, SickJetFan said:

i would be somewhat down with this

what worries me though is defense takes a nose dive w/o him

If they get a better edge rush next year with Jermaine stepping up/offseason move, it won’t matter. 

[Barry McCockinner]

9 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I'm really not sure what you mean. Do you mean when the contract expires or a player is released resulting in a cap savings? That does happen, but those player must be replaced and that cost money. If you think there is some magical way to enter a contract with huge cap hit one yeat and then a small one the next, there isn't. There are rules for contracts and cap calculations. The bonus is spread over the life of the contract and the base amount can only vary by a small amount. 

Quinnen Williams 2023-01-04.pdf

overthecap.com let me create this contract. Is this illegal and otc is not enforcing things? It's just an example - didn't get too detailed. My point is just that you can push money into specific years. 

[Sonny Werblin]

32 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Quinnen Williams 2023-01-04.pdf 72.48 kB · 0 downloads

overthecap.com let me create this contract. Is this illegal and otc is not enforcing things?

It's been a long time since I looked at the CBA, but there are percentage limitations on base contract increases and I also think for incentive bonuses like a roster or workout bonus (not signing bonuses).  I do believe that the contract you proposed would not be permitted.  I would also note that if the Roster bonus is guaranteed it is treated like a signing bonus and pro-rated over the life of the contract for cap calculations.

Frankly, I've never seen anything like this contract, and there probably is a reason for that.

PS. Below is from the CBA. So annual increases in excess of 30% are not permitted. The rookie contract limit is 25%

Section 7. 30% Rules:
 (a) No NFL Player Contract extending into a season beyond the Final League
Year may provide for an annual increase in Salary, excluding any amount attributable to a
signing bonus as defined in Section 6(b)(iii) above, of more than 30% of the Salary provided for in the Final League Year, per year, either in the season after the Final League
Year or in any subsequent season covered by the Player Contract. The 30% Rule set forth
in this paragraph shall not apply to any Rookie Contract referred to in Article 7 of this
Agreement, including without limitation, with respect to Rookie Salary, the Proven Performance Escalator described in Article 7, Section 4; the Performance Incentive described
in Article 7, Section 6; and the Fifth-Year Option for First Round Selections described in
Article 7, Section 7. Notwithstanding the preceding sentence, the 30% Rule set forth in
this paragraph shall apply to any renegotiated or extended Player Contract that is permissible under Article 7, Section 3(k) and that such Player Contract shall not be subject to the
rules that limit Rookie Contracts.

[VJphillyfan]

2 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Unless he magically shows up to camp a completely different player and wins a legit competition - No 

Zach Wilson is starting week 1 next season.  Schottenheimer the new OC

[Barry McCockinner]

17 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

It's been a long time since I looked at the CBA, but there are percentage limitations on base contract increases and I also think for incentive bonuses like a roster or workout bonus (not signing bonuses).  I do believe that the contract you proposed would not be permitted.  I would also note that if the Roster bonus is guaranteed it is treated like a signing bonus and pro-rated over the life of the contract for cap calculations.

Frankly, I've never seen anything like this contract, and there probably is a reason for that.

PS. Below is from the CBA. So annual increases in excess of 30% are not permitted. The rookie contract limit is 25%

Section 7. 30% Rules:
 (a) No NFL Player Contract extending into a season beyond the Final League
Year may provide for an annual increase in Salary, excluding any amount attributable to a
signing bonus as defined in Section 6(b)(iii) above, of more than 30% of the Salary provided for in the Final League Year, per year, either in the season after the Final League
Year or in any subsequent season covered by the Player Contract. The 30% Rule set forth
in this paragraph shall not apply to any Rookie Contract referred to in Article 7 of this
Agreement, including without limitation, with respect to Rookie Salary, the Proven Performance Escalator described in Article 7, Section 4; the Performance Incentive described
in Article 7, Section 6; and the Fifth-Year Option for First Round Selections described in
Article 7, Section 7. Notwithstanding the preceding sentence, the 30% Rule set forth in
this paragraph shall apply to any renegotiated or extended Player Contract that is permissible under Article 7, Section 3(k) and that such Player Contract shall not be subject to the
rules that limit Rookie Contracts.

I'm not a cap guy, the only thing I know is it's easy to manipulate over the term of the contract moving cap hits into different years. Here's a different way that doesn't break the rule you posted. I'll let a cap guy address the details because I don't like talking out my arse.

Quinnen Williams 2023-01-04 (5).pdf

 

[Sonny Werblin]

4 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I'm not a cap guy, the only thing I know is it's easy to manipulate over the term of the contract moving cap hits into different years. Here's a different way that doesn't break the rule you posted. I'll let a cap guy address the details because I don't like talking out my arse.

Quinnen Williams 2023-01-04 (5).pdf 72.5 kB · 0 downloads

 

It is NOT easy to manipulate. It is specifically designed to prevent manipulation. You're new contract still violated the 30% increase rule. Basically if you multiply any base year by 1.3, the next season's base cannot be a higher number than that.

[Barry McCockinner]

11 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

It is NOT easy to manipulate. It is specifically designed to prevent manipulation. You're new contract still violated the 30% increase rule. Basically if you multiply any base year by 1.3, the next season's base cannot be a higher number than that.

30% rule specified salary. I did it with bonus.

The idea that the NFL cap isn't easy to manipulate is laughable 

[Sonny Werblin]

2 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

30% rule specified salary. I did it with bonus.

The idea that the NFL cap isn't easy to manipulate is laughable 

This is the contract, right? $15 million is more than 30% higher than $9 million. Or, am I missing something?

 

[Barry McCockinner]

2 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

This is the contract, right? $15 million is more than 30% higher than $9 million. Or, am I missing something?

 

you're right - i'm a jackass. the number was so small i didn't realize.

ffs - that's an easy fix just slide 2 mill of base salary back into 20223 from 20224.  makes the 2023 cap number 17,594,000

[ylekram]

2 hours ago, Barton said:

Jets should consider franchise tagging quinnen Williams and trading him for a 1st and 3rd rd pick. Use the cap space to builder a better offense. Quinnen was a bleh player until this year, his contract year. Probably not a coincidence. 

i was just thinking the same thing. those "contract year players" always worry me.

[Skeet Ulrich]

1 hour ago, ylekram said:

i was just thinking the same thing. those "contract year players" always worry me.

Jets fanbase really has an affinity with getting rid of good players and lionizing bums. It's quite fascinating.

 

[BornJetsFan1983]

5 hours ago, AFJF said:

I don't think it's a great idea to have a RB coming off of a major injury to shoulder the load for a full season to make up for league worst QB play.

Right but what I said and my point is if all the pieces that let Zach Wilson win games, then inserting Derek car isn't fixing anything...those prices just like with Zach would be what is winning.

I m not sure it needed explaining again or if I can in another way. I see is we need good qb play 

[AFJF]

7 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Right but what I said and my point is if all the pieces that let Zach Wilson win games, then inserting Derek car isn't fixing anything...those prices just like with Zach would be what is winning.

I m not sure it needed explaining again or if I can in another way. I see is we need good qb play 

But Zach Wilson didn't win games.  The Jets won games.  And they won games with some herculean efforts from the guys around him who had to overcome his play.

Going from Carr to Wilson means going from the worst QB in the NFL to an upper half of the league QB play.  That would be huge with the weapons the Jets have on this roster.

[TuscanyTile2]

I'm perfectly fine going with ZW again next year as long as it prevents us from overpaying (in years, salary and guaranteed money) for Derek Carr.

[VJphillyfan]

8 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I think the Jets can extend QW and sign Derek Carr without having much issue getting under the cap. You push money out to later years and do some GM magic cap manipulation. We have over 100 million available in 2024 right now. Easy to dip into that year.

 

We are cutting Davis and a bunch of other guys.  We will have cap room to sign a real QB and take care of QW

[VJphillyfan]

2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I'm perfectly fine going with ZW again next year as long as it prevents us from overpaying (in years, salary and guaranteed money) for Derek Carr.

You guys must really enjoy 4-5 win seasons 

[SoFlaJets]

9 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

This could NOT have been written last night because the Jets do not have $90 million in cap space.

Why do people think we have the money to pay Carr or Garrapolo? Are we signing them for $12 million or less?

The salary cap was not the point that I was emphasizing Bro

[slimjasi]

3 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I'm perfectly fine going with ZW again next year as long as it prevents us from overpaying (in years, salary and guaranteed money) for Derek Carr.

[TuscanyTile2]

3 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I'm perfectly fine going with ZW again next year as long as it prevents us from overpaying (in years, salary and guaranteed money) for Derek Carr.

1 hour ago, VJphillyfan said:

You guys must really enjoy 4-5 win seasons 

10 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

This is more of an anti-Carr (as opposed to pro-ZW) comment that I'm making, btw.

(Though if JD still believes in ZW then I'm willing to listen.)

[Maxman]

On 1/2/2023 at 4:05 AM, Jetsfan80 said:

No he does not.  This org is a dysfunctional mess and will continue to be until Woody dies or sells the team.

 

[Maxman]

5 hours ago, AFJF said:

But Zach Wilson didn't win games.  The Jets won games.  And they won games with some herculean efforts from the guys around him who had to overcome his play.

Going from Carr to Wilson means going from the worst QB in the NFL to an upper half of the league QB play.  That would be huge with the weapons the Jets have on this roster.

I am warming up to Carr. He still scares me a bit but I agree he would be an improvement from what we have now for sure.

[heymangold]

Saw some stat that Carr has never won a game where the temp is 37 degrees or less.  Makes me hesitant to pick him up.  In fairness, playing in the AFC west could be a small sample size.

[FactsOnly]

fixes what?

to become the Fitzmagic Jets?

No thanks!

[AFJF]

1 hour ago, Maxman said:

 

Carr would be their best QB since Namath.  I understand some of the concerns because I share some of them, but what's the alternative?  Zach Wilson reboot?  Injury prone Jimmy G for $35 mil?  Jameis Winston?  

Even as somebody who is kind of intrigued by Baker Mayfield,  I just don't see the Jets handing this roster over to a rookie or a guy like Baker.  Gardner Minshew?  Might work, might not.  Carr is the most established guy out there who can be had.  I'm not buying Rodgers being dealt with the cap hit GB would be facing and Brady isn't coming to the Jets.