Mr. Irrelevant in a Complimentary Offensive System.

[32EBoozer]

We are "supposedly" running a variation of the Shanahan offense. While McCaffrey & Kittle are "other-worldly" players, we don't come close to compiling these types of numbers out of our Quarterback.

Is it the players or the situational play calling? Is it poor execution or poor communication by the coaching staff?

Didn't GW call out the coaching staff a couple of weeks' ago concerning poor practice habits?

 

 

"It starts in practice," he said. "It's got to be better, the things we see and don't call out. It has to start getting called out. This is unacceptable. No one wants to feel like this, but that's not enough. ... Hopefully, this is a wake-up for some people in the facility, people in the facility to get on their details."

"It starts during the week in practice—coaching, all of that," he said. "We have to be detailed. We all have to have a better plan. This s--t's not OK. Straight up. It's not OK. How many total yards did we have? Yeah, that s--t's not going to fly."

[hawk]

That certainly is not a very promising quote regarding the "some" of the players and whatever coaches.

I agree, it starts in practice.

What does the running game look like?  The offense was built to run.  The OC apparently isn't capable or won't try to change the scheme to fit the injuries that changed the way the offense was built.

Don't need big QB numbers if you can run and defend.

[Mo Lew]

14 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

We are "supposedly" running a variation of the Shanahan offense. While McCaffrey & Kittle are "other-worldly" players, we don't come close to compiling these types of numbers out of our Quarterback.

Is it the players or the situational play calling? Is it poor execution or poor communication by the coaching staff?

Didn't GW call out the coaching staff a couple of weeks' ago concerning poor practice habits?

 

 

"It starts in practice," he said. "It's got to be better, the things we see and don't call out. It has to start getting called out. This is unacceptable. No one wants to feel like this, but that's not enough. ... Hopefully, this is a wake-up for some people in the facility, people in the facility to get on their details."

"It starts during the week in practice—coaching, all of that," he said. "We have to be detailed. We all have to have a better plan. This s--t's not OK. Straight up. It's not OK. How many total yards did we have? Yeah, that s--t's not going to fly."

I agree 100%.  The thing that I cant wrap my head around, is if Kyle Shannan has mastered the ability to place meddling QBs in his system and make them productive, why then would he have given so much up for Trey Lance.  I really do feel like QBs have it or don't, and modern scouting hasn't diagnosed a way to predict the IT.  Not even a little bit. Its confusing. 

[JetPotato]

The Brock Purdy situation is just one more twist of the knife.

[32EBoozer]

12 minutes ago, hawk said:

That certainly is not a very promising quote regarding the "some" of the players and whatever coaches.

I agree, it starts in practice.

What does the running game look like?  The offense was built to run.  The OC apparently isn't capable or won't try to change the scheme to fit the injuries that changed the way the offense was built.

Don't need big QB numbers if you can run and defend.

The OL has been trash despite the FA signings of Brown & Tomlinson, waiver wire claim of Herbig. I understand we, once again, have had a rash of injuries but when you only call 17 rushes compared to 38 for your opponent…. that’s bad play calling.

[rangerous]

16 minutes ago, Mo Lew said:

I agree 100%.  The thing that I cant wrap my head around, is if Kyle Shannan has mastered the ability to place meddling QBs in his system and make them productive, why then would he have given so much up for Trey Lance.  I really do feel like QBs have it or don't, and modern scouting hasn't diagnosed a way to predict the IT.  Not even a little bit. Its confusing. 

Consider Green Bay’s record too with an all world qb.  I’m not sure if malf is trying to run a shanahan system but it’s not working too well.  I remember the shanahan system being billed as super easy for the qb and offense. In some games it did put up good numbers but lately it’s been poor. And even though mfw put up good numbers the red zone eff and third down eff were terrible.  Maybe milfs system is good but then it falls on him to teach it and make sure it’s run right.  Add to that play calling. I think there things he’s just not doing right.

another example is buddy Ryan’s 46 defense. Allegedly only Rex and his brother knew how to run it. Rex did okay but rob failed. If the 46 was so darn dominant all teams would use it.  Only buddy had real success and that was also because of the players he had.

[32EBoozer]

GB had no receiving corps to speak of. Now that these young receivers are getting on script, you see the difference. Not to mention the defense is now playing well

[Flea Flicking Frank]

I have always been a believer that the Shanahan offense was way overrated. Shanahan himself had an all time great QB who he did not develop, and a HOF RB with a stellar O line and a completely stacked roster. Without all of that Shanahan was never anything special at all. Hes not a guy like Parcells who won everywhere he went.

Even with all that being said, lets say its a decent offense, just because MLF grabbed a playbook on his way out does not mean he knows how to implement it, teach it, or call the plays for it. More importantly, offensive systems need to be modified for your players, and MLF seems to have no ability to do that at all

[56mehl56]

8 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I have always been a believer that the Shanahan offense was way overrated. Shanahan himself had an all time great QB who he did not develop, and a HOF RB with a stellar O line and a completely stacked roster. Without all of that Shanahan was never anything special at all. Hes not a guy like Parcells who won everywhere he went.

Even with all that being said, lets say its a decent offense, just because MLF grabbed a playbook on his way out does not mean he knows how to implement it, teach it, or call the plays for it. More importantly, offensive systems need to be modified for your players, and MLF seems to have no ability to do that at all

When lauding past HC's for their records just keep in mind that Parcells had a lot more success prior to the NFL salary cap. Back then teams could stock their rosters with players who fit their schemes w/o worrying about  Cap impacts. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Just now, 56mehl56 said:

When lauding past HC's for their records just keep in mind that Parcells had a lot more success prior to the NFL salary cap. Back then teams could stock their rosters with players who fit their schemes w/o worrying about  Cap impacts. 

I don't disagree, but you know what Parcells did better than anyone? he built great staffs. a HC has 3 critical responsibilities to be successful:

1) Build really good staffs. Coaches don't work 100 hour weeks every week playing solitaire, they are working out really important details and trying to maximize their strenghts against opposing teams and hide their weaknesses against opposing teams. The importance of staffs is really lost on this fan base as a whole.

2) Set the culture and the tone

3) Hold everyone, coaches and players accountable.

Parcells did all 3 of those things really well, which is why he won. 

[Beerfish]

The rest of the SF team is light years ahead of the NY jets talent level.

Their defense is vastly better.

We had a play making RB but he got hurt.

We have no TE close to kittle at all

Their oline is vastly better than ours

We have nothing at all that resembles deebo samuel

SF has led the league in yards after the catch for like the last 5 years or something.

I do not pine for Brock purdy he would be no better here than the guys we have.

[Bleedin Green]

I appreciate the newest narrative that QBs might now actually be mostly meaningless players at an unimportant position, given their success and failure is now apparently predicated entirely on coaching.  Is the new path to a successful offense to not waste any money on the position, and just go with 7th rounders and undrafted rookies, as the coaches can make any of them good?

Or perhaps some get hung up on the most substantial of outliers at moments like these, instead of the overwhelming amount of evidence to the contrary.  The true reality that is often failed to be grasped by many when things get bad year after year is that the issue is never just with one single individual to blame for it all.  Never has been, and never will be.  Now of course we'd all like nothing more for there to only be one problem, because that makes it a lot easier to fix, but it's nowhere close to reality.

The failures of one in no way excuse those of others, and that applies across the board.  There's plenty of problems with this team all over the place, but the incompetence of the QB room is still a monumental failure of those players themselves, and the guy who brought them in.

[FactsOnly]

LOL

GARBAGE coaching staff

[FactsOnly]

2 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

I appreciate the newest narrative that QBs might now actually be mostly meaningless players at an unimportant position, given their success and failure is now apparently predicated entirely on coaching.  Is the new path to a successful offense to not waste any money on the position, and just go with 7th rounders and undrafted rookies, as the coaches can make any of them good?

Or perhaps some get hung up on the most substantial of outliers at moments like these, instead of the overwhelming amount of evidence to the contrary.  The true reality that is often failed to be grasped by many when things get bad year after year is that the issue is never just with one single individual to blame for it all.  Never has been, and never will be.  Now of course we'd all like nothing more for there to only be one problem, because that makes it a lot easier to fix, but it's nowhere close to reality.

The failures of one in no way excuse those of others, and that applies across the board.  There's plenty of problems with this team all over the place, but the incompetence of the QB room is still a monumental failure of those players themselves, and the guy who brought them in.

The fact is a garbage OC can make a QB look horrible

which is what youre seeing with the New York football Jets

Case in point is ZW cooking vs the Lions first half on rollouts etc > 2nd half? Let’s stop doing all of that

[56mehl56]

16 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I don't disagree, but you know what Parcells did better than anyone? he built great staffs. a HC has 3 critical responsibilities to be successful:

1) Build really good staffs. Coaches don't work 100 hour weeks every week playing solitaire, they are working out really important details and trying to maximize their strenghts against opposing teams and hide their weaknesses against opposing teams. The importance of staffs is really lost on this fan base as a whole.

2) Set the culture and the tone

3) Hold everyone, coaches and players accountable.

Parcells did all 3 of those things really well, which is why he won. 

But again the NFL was a different animal back then. Parcells and his type would have a difficult time in today's game because of the NFLPA and the bargaining agreement that is in place.  I do agree that adapting to a opponent is crucial and its why coaches like Reid and Belicheck stay successful they are masters at exposing an opponents weaknesses.  

And that is the problem with a young HC and coordinator today, they have a small amount of time to show their worth they get too hung up on proving their systems are good.  Coaches need to put the players in the best systems for their ability not trying to force fit players into their systems. 

[playtowinthegame]

If Purdy were here we'd be calling him Brock Turdy. 

[Integrity28]

2 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

We are "supposedly" running a variation of the Shanahan offense. While McCaffrey & Kittle are "other-worldly" players, we don't come close to compiling these types of numbers out of our Quarterback.

Is it the players or the situational play calling? Is it poor execution or poor communication by the coaching staff?

Didn't GW call out the coaching staff a couple of weeks' ago concerning poor practice habits?

 

 

"It starts in practice," he said. "It's got to be better, the things we see and don't call out. It has to start getting called out. This is unacceptable. No one wants to feel like this, but that's not enough. ... Hopefully, this is a wake-up for some people in the facility, people in the facility to get on their details."

"It starts during the week in practice—coaching, all of that," he said. "We have to be detailed. We all have to have a better plan. This s--t's not OK. Straight up. It's not OK. How many total yards did we have? Yeah, that s--t's not going to fly."

We have had better offensive production with MLF. The problem, that needs more time being discussed, is that MLF is 1.) very formulaic as a play caller, making him ridiculously predictable, and 2.) not able to fix the pass protection problems that Buffalo exposed.

[jgb]

Everything and yet nothing makes sense next week

[Hex]

Looking now, the Jets really don’t have any good offensive players outside of GW (and maybe Duane Brown?) who aren’t on IR right now. This offense is just terrible. Add in a terrible attempt at the Shanahan scheme and it all starts to fit into place why this offense can’t do anything no matter the QB they have. 
If LaFleur is still on this team next season I might join those calling for Saleh’s head. Or whoever is responsible for not firing him. He doesn’t change even when it’s clear what he’s doing doesn’t work. His ‘creative moments’ happen at the worst possible times and his offense can’t make it intothe endzone 2/3 games. 
Of course better players would help but I was able to predict pretty much every playcall MLF made the entire game.

[Jet9]

40 minutes ago, FactsOnly said:

The fact is a garbage OC can make a QB look horrible

which is what youre seeing with the New York football Jets

Case in point is ZW cooking vs the Lions first half on rollouts etc > 2nd half? Let’s stop doing all of that

 

[jgb]

2 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

We are "supposedly" running a variation of the Shanahan offense. While McCaffrey & Kittle are "other-worldly" players, we don't come close to compiling these types of numbers out of our Quarterback.

Is it the players or the situational play calling? Is it poor execution or poor communication by the coaching staff?

Didn't GW call out the coaching staff a couple of weeks' ago concerning poor practice habits?

 

 

"It starts in practice," he said. "It's got to be better, the things we see and don't call out. It has to start getting called out. This is unacceptable. No one wants to feel like this, but that's not enough. ... Hopefully, this is a wake-up for some people in the facility, people in the facility to get on their details."

"It starts during the week in practice—coaching, all of that," he said. "We have to be detailed. We all have to have a better plan. This s--t's not OK. Straight up. It's not OK. How many total yards did we have? Yeah, that s--t's not going to fly."

We signed up for the San Francisco Treat by bringing in MLF instead we got dumpster Rice a Roni.

[FactsOnly]

4 minutes ago, Jet9 said:

 

Terrible meme

terrible post

do better

[Flea Flicking Frank]

39 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

But again the NFL was a different animal back then. Parcells and his type would have a difficult time in today's game because of the NFLPA and the bargaining agreement that is in place.  I do agree that adapting to a opponent is crucial and its why coaches like Reid and Belicheck stay successful they are masters at exposing an opponents weaknesses.  

And that is the problem with a young HC and coordinator today, they have a small amount of time to show their worth they get too hung up on proving their systems are good.  Coaches need to put the players in the best systems for their ability not trying to force fit players into their systems. 

Good coaches and good staffs are much better than bad coaches and bad staffs.

[Jet9]

3 minutes ago, FactsOnly said:

Terrible meme

terrible post

do better

Hey man, facts only. 

[FactsOnly]

3 minutes ago, Jet9 said:

Hey man, facts only. 

Imagine making a joke out of playing to your QBs strengths 

youre just another clueless delusional fan

meme that

[Embrace the Suck]

2 hours ago, Mo Lew said:

The thing that I cant wrap my head around, is if Kyle Shannan has mastered the ability to place meddling QBs in his system and make them productive, why then would he have given so much up for Trey Lance. 

They drafted Lance because they saw his physical ability as something that could be special on the field in their system, as opposed to a lame game manager who may beat bad teams, but has no chance against the elite teams. For instance MW might do good in the SF system too, but he will always be physically limited in what he can actually do. MW will never be the guy who makes amazing things happen when the play breaks down. MW will never be the guy who makes anyone other than desperate Jets fans go "yup, he's the guy I want long term". You can see MW's ceiling already as a back up QB game manager, which is fine, but not what you want as a starter particularly in today's game. MW isn't going to keep you in the game against any upper echelon QB / team. Which is why you take a chance on a guy like Lance and his potential at QB. Safe doesn't consistently win in this league unless you're BB* and have electronic surveillance listening in on the other team's play calling. We'll see how Purdy does in the playoffs.

[Jet9]

2 minutes ago, FactsOnly said:

Imagine making a joke out of playing to your QBs strengths 

youre just another clueless delusional fan

meme that

 

[Embrace the Suck]

21 minutes ago, Jet9 said:

 

There's a difference between ZW running for his life acting like a ballet dancer spinning aimlessly because the play is broken as usual as multiple defender (some untouched) storm the backfield like crazed vikings on meth, and a planned roll out with a moving pocket. Oh, why do I bother, with the crappy education system and all it's like pushing huge stones up an icy hill.

[Jet9]

4 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

There's a difference between ZW running for his life acting like a ballet dancer spinning aimlessly because the play is broken as usual as multiple defender (some untouched) storm the backfield like crazed vikings on meth, and a planned roll out with a moving pocket. Oh, why do I bother, with the crappy education system and all it's like pushing huge stones up an icy hill.

It's the only play he knows whether the play is designed or not. 

[Bay Ridge Jet]

8 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

They drafted Lance because they saw his physical ability as something that could be special on the field in their system, as opposed to a lame game manager who may beat bad teams, but has no chance against the elite teams. For instance MW might do good in the SF system too, but he will always be physically limited in what he can actually do. MW will never be the guy who makes amazing things happen when the play breaks down. MW will never be the guy who makes anyone other than desperate Jets fans go "yup, he's the guy I want long term". You can see MW's ceiling already as a back up QB game manager, which is fine, but not what you want as a starter particularly in today's game. MW isn't going to keep you in the game against any upper echelon QB / team. Which is why you take a chance on a guy like Lance and his potential at QB. Safe doesn't consistently win in this league unless you're BB* and have electronic surveillance listening in on the other team's play calling. We'll see how Purdy does in the playoffs.

Agreed. White is what he is. A solid NFL backup and a spot starter who can win you a game or two. There’s a lot of value in that. Deserves to be in the league for sure and is def well liked so I’m not going to bash a guy with clear limitations.
 

Guys who are the top of the league at the moment have the ability to extend plays, run on broken plays and keep defenses in check with the threat of the run/ability to step up in the pocket. Zack avoided sacks a bunch this year by running in circles (kindve depressingly impressive) but he never made something out of nothing. 

[FactsOnly]

11 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

There's a difference between ZW running for his life acting like a ballet dancer spinning aimlessly because the play is broken as usual as multiple defender (some untouched) storm the backfield like crazed vikings on meth, and a planned roll out with a moving pocket. Oh, why do I bother, with the crappy education system and all it's like pushing huge stones up an icy hill.

These goofball idiots dont know jack sh*t about football

kids in here thoroughly embarrassing himself 

[Jet9]

5 minutes ago, FactsOnly said:

These goofball idiots dont know jack sh*t about football

kids in here thoroughly embarrassing himself 

You're the most cringe account since Doomed Ponytail. Actually, now that I think about it....

[FactsOnly]

2 hours ago, Jet9 said:

You're the most cringe account since Doomed Ponytail. Actually, now that I think about it....

post another gif clown

all I post is facts

[Jet9]

2 minutes ago, FactsOnly said:

post another gif clown

all I post is facts

 

[FactsOnly]

6 minutes ago, Jet9 said:

 

I picture you with a clown nose but this is close enough

well done!