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Mike White looked exactly like Zach without the frustrated mistakes


Wit

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So, does Zach really suck, or did MW and ZW both devolve in the footwork under this OL and coaching staff?

The only thing I will say, is that Zach had a long time to throw on many of his errant passes while MW was getting smashed if the ball didnt come out right.

I could blame the ribs, but it was so bizarre watching layup passes floated or off base so often. Again, MLF seemed to get guys open, but the passes were off.

How can this team fix the offense, other than OL? Is it THAT hard to find some competent, veteran, offensive coaches in this league??

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3 minutes ago, Wit said:

So, does Zach really suck, or did MW and ZW both devolve in the footwork under this OL and coaching staff?

The only thing I will say, is that Zach had a long time to throw on many of his errant passes while MW was getting smashed if the ball didnt come out right.

I could blame the ribs, but it was so bizarre watching layup passes floated or off base so often. Again, MLF seemed to get guys open, but the passes were off.

How can this team fix the offense, other than OL? Is it THAT hard to find some competent, veteran, offensive coaches in this league??

ZW sucked this year. 

MW is good, but played like crap yesterday because he was injured.

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1 minute ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

It was apparent pretty quickly that MW shouldn't have been on the field, but the Collapse of every other option forced their hand. 

 

And unfortunately for the White family, he's not gonna cash in on a big payday. But hey,  27 years old with a couple of Mil in the bank? Yeah, not too shabby. 

 

But the answer is MLF and Calabrese have zero idea wtf they're doing and both should get ?. 

Fortunately for the jets and us, we won't be stuck with a bad contract for the next 3 years because we overvalued a guy based on a few decent games. I can't stomach going into next year to find out that we have a JAG at QB again.

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Bottom line is both QBs aren’t starting caliber to begin with. 
But they could be if they developed their play in a competent offensive system. IMO it is of greater importance to find a better OC than a better QB.

Say what you want about guys getting open, that offense is more predictable than anything.

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something to be taken away is it didn't look like lafleur changed his normal game plan because mfw was injured.  he's a coach.  he needs to have an inkling of an idea as to what his players can and can't do.  and if it looked like white was having difficulty then call plays that he can execute.  it sure looked like something was going on with white.  there's no wind in that stadium and it wasn't cold.

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4 minutes ago, football guy said:

I don’t think you can conclude that anyone is good just because they’re dealing with similar issues, but I don’t think Zach Wilson or Mike White are nearly as bad as they’ve looked. You’re forced to wonder what is going on in the QB room and on the practice field (or not going on) that is resulting in these breakdowns. 

It’s not normal for QBs to have their footwork break down the way it has for both their QBs 2 years in a row now. Yes QBs tend to get happy feet when experiencing heavy pass rush week after week, and it would be easy to conclude that MW’a fears of reinjury were bleeding through onto the field, but this is not the first time it has happened for either player. MW had his footwork breakdown last year and was banished to the scout team. He had it happen to him earlier this year and he was banished to the scout team. Zach had it happen last year and they brought in his personal QB coach to fix it. This year he was banished to the scout team. In both instances for both players the only solution was to banish them to the side because it was “too much to ask of them to work on while preparing for a game.” It’s not normal to see the stark regression we’ve seen from both Zach and Mike in such short periods of time both in 2021 and 2022. 

It’s no secret that the Jets don’t have a teacher of fundamentals on the staff. Knapp was originally brought in to help both player and coaches alike. Cavanaugh was brought at the end of the preseason as his replacement but he spent most of his time helping the coaches with practice routines and game prep. They traded for Flacco in part due to needing a veteran “player/coach” in the room. Beck was brought in to work with Zach’s fundamentals (and successfully corrected them to close out the season). Calabrese is more of a conceptual type/playcaller and was brought here to be groomed as such. Breakdowns in footwork is never going to be extremely glaring in practice- it comes out on the field. But you can do things starting in training camp to ensure it’s a focus for the player while implementing strict routines to maintain it throughout the season. That’s a major issue. 

Another major issue is communication. Zach and Mike may have a good attitude, but they are constantly looking to Flacco for answers, not Calabrese. Zach wanted MLF on the field last year to be more accessible and it didn’t work- he preferred calling plays from the booth. And that’s fine- but if that’s the case you need you’re QB coach to be a strong communicator and teacher to serve as the in-game buffer between player and coordinator. You also see MW on the field- when is he ever speaking to Calabrese? Every now and then you see the guys standing or sitting next to eachother, but there’s no engagement, there’s no coaching. The most you see is Calabrese’s head buried into the tablet trying to figure out what went wrong as opposed to actually coaching up the player and communicating with them. 

 

It’s gotten ugly fast and it’s time to sound the alarm. I know the Jets really like LaFleur and Calabrese. I know they believe in them. But there has to be an explanation for the chaos in the QB room over the past 2 years… it’s not always just on the players.

Is there a chance they do nothing with the coaches, after all this fail?

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19 minutes ago, rangerous said:

something to be taken away is it didn't look like lafleur changed his normal game plan because mfw was injured.  he's a coach.  he needs to have an inkling of an idea as to what his players can and can't do.  and if it looked like white was having difficulty then call plays that he can execute.  it sure looked like something was going on with white.  there's no wind in that stadium and it wasn't cold.

Seems pretty obvious he took a mental hit as well as a physical hit on that Milano play.  Rarely saw him step into a throw yesterday...

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32 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

Fortunately for the jets and us, we won't be stuck with a bad contract for the next 3 years because we overvalued a guy based on a few decent games. I can't stomach going into next year to find out that we have a JAG at QB again.

I’d sign up for a JAG

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1 minute ago, peekskill68 said:

Seems pretty obvious he took a mental hit as well as a physical hit on that Milano play.  Rarely saw him step into a throw yesterday...

yep.  that was the knock on him following the buffalo game last season.  he seems to have improved but if you're still injured you're just not going to want to be hit again.  in hindsight the jets probably should've started zwilson.  let the chips fall where they may instead of trotting out an injured player.

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25 minutes ago, football guy said:

I don’t think you can conclude that anyone is good just because they’re dealing with similar issues, but I don’t think Zach Wilson or Mike White are nearly as bad as they’ve looked. You’re forced to wonder what is going on in the QB room and on the practice field (or not going on) that is resulting in these breakdowns. 

It’s not normal for QBs to have their footwork break down the way it has for both their QBs 2 years in a row now. Yes QBs tend to get happy feet when experiencing heavy pass rush week after week, and it would be easy to conclude that MW’a fears of reinjury were bleeding through onto the field, but this is not the first time it has happened for either player. MW had his footwork breakdown last year and was banished to the scout team. He had it happen to him earlier this year and he was banished to the scout team. Zach had it happen last year and they brought in his personal QB coach to fix it. This year he was banished to the scout team. In both instances for both players the only solution was to banish them to the side because it was “too much to ask of them to work on while preparing for a game.” It’s not normal to see the stark regression we’ve seen from both Zach and Mike in such short periods of time both in 2021 and 2022. 

It’s no secret that the Jets don’t have a teacher of fundamentals on the staff. Knapp was originally brought in to help both player and coaches alike. Cavanaugh was brought at the end of the preseason as his replacement but he spent most of his time helping the coaches with practice routines and game prep. They traded for Flacco in part due to needing a veteran “player/coach” in the room. Beck was brought in to work with Zach’s fundamentals (and successfully corrected them to close out the season). Calabrese is more of a conceptual type/playcaller and was brought here to be groomed as such. Breakdowns in footwork is never going to be extremely glaring in practice- it comes out on the field. But you can do things starting in training camp to ensure it’s a focus for the player while implementing strict routines to maintain it throughout the season. That’s a major issue. 

Another major issue is communication. Zach and Mike may have a good attitude, but they are constantly looking to Flacco for answers, not Calabrese. Zach wanted MLF on the field last year to be more accessible and it didn’t work- he preferred calling plays from the booth. And that’s fine- but if that’s the case you need you’re QB coach to be a strong communicator and teacher to serve as the in-game buffer between player and coordinator. You also see MW on the field- when is he ever speaking to Calabrese? Every now and then you see the guys standing or sitting next to eachother, but there’s no engagement, there’s no coaching. The most you see is Calabrese’s head buried into the tablet trying to figure out what went wrong as opposed to actually coaching up the player and communicating with them. 

 

It’s gotten ugly fast and it’s time to sound the alarm. I know the Jets really like LaFleur and Calabrese. I know they believe in them. But there has to be an explanation for the chaos in the QB room over the past 2 years… it’s not always just on the players.

Wow, this is interesting information. If this is true, they had no business drafting a QB. They SHOULD have gone the veteran route until lafluer and his team got adjusted. Greg Knapp dying cant have this much of a negative effect on an NFL offense. Why is it so hard to find another guy (not a disinterested Flacco) to be the new Knapp? Calabrese wanting to be an offensive coordinator in the league should have precluded him from the job. 

Its a damn shame, because Zach may not be the answer, but he was stunted to the extreme. What an epic mess. 

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19 minutes ago, football guy said:

I don’t think you can conclude that anyone is good just because they’re dealing with similar issues, but I don’t think Zach Wilson or Mike White are nearly as bad as they’ve looked. You’re forced to wonder what is going on in the QB room and on the practice field (or not going on) that is resulting in these breakdowns. 

It’s not normal for QBs to have their footwork break down the way it has for both their QBs 2 years in a row now. Yes QBs tend to get happy feet when experiencing heavy pass rush week after week, and it would be easy to conclude that MW’a fears of reinjury were bleeding through onto the field, but this is not the first time it has happened for either player. MW had his footwork breakdown last year and was banished to the scout team. He had it happen to him earlier this year and he was banished to the scout team. Zach had it happen last year and they brought in his personal QB coach to fix it. This year he was banished to the scout team. In both instances for both players the only solution was to banish them to the side because it was “too much to ask of them to work on while preparing for a game.” It’s not normal to see the stark regression we’ve seen from both Zach and Mike in such short periods of time both in 2021 and 2022. 

It’s no secret that the Jets don’t have a teacher of fundamentals on the staff. Knapp was originally brought in to help both player and coaches alike. Cavanaugh was brought at the end of the preseason as his replacement but he spent most of his time helping the coaches with practice routines and game prep. They traded for Flacco in part due to needing a veteran “player/coach” in the room. Beck was brought in to work with Zach’s fundamentals (and successfully corrected them to close out the season). Calabrese is more of a conceptual type/playcaller and was brought here to be groomed as such. Breakdowns in footwork is never going to be extremely glaring in practice- it comes out on the field. But you can do things starting in training camp to ensure it’s a focus for the player while implementing strict routines to maintain it throughout the season. That’s a major issue. 

Another major issue is communication. Zach and Mike may have a good attitude, but they are constantly looking to Flacco for answers, not Calabrese. Zach wanted MLF on the field last year to be more accessible and it didn’t work- he preferred calling plays from the booth. And that’s fine- but if that’s the case you need you’re QB coach to be a strong communicator and teacher to serve as the in-game buffer between player and coordinator. You also see MW on the field- when is he ever speaking to Calabrese? Every now and then you see the guys standing or sitting next to eachother, but there’s no engagement, there’s no coaching. The most you see is Calabrese’s head buried into the tablet trying to figure out what went wrong as opposed to actually coaching up the player and communicating with them. 

 

It’s gotten ugly fast and it’s time to sound the alarm. I know the Jets really like LaFleur and Calabrese. I know they believe in them. But there has to be an explanation for the chaos in the QB room over the past 2 years… it’s not always just on the players.

Thanks for the insight as always....

It goes back to my original point from day 1.......This offensive coaching staff is too green to lead an offense full of young players. If Saleh doesn't make a move this offseason to bring in some experience on that side of the ball....he's gonna go down with the ship...I'll bet anything on it 

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8 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

White has thrown at least 2 ints in 5 out of his 8 career games.  He stinks and the fact that half the forum thought this guy was something was hilarious.

Agree White has 12 interceptions in only 8 games. Funny thing is that outside of 2 NE games where he threw 7 interceptions, Zach is really not all that turnover prone with 18 in 22 games. Or 11 in 20 games other than NE. That is not praise. But it is insanely obvious as I have been saying for weeks is that the issue is not as much Zach as MLF and the system he absolutely REFUSES to adapt to players.

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Team looked better with two playmakers (Hall and Wilson) than one (Wilson). Keep adding playmakers. Find someone who can tread water at quarterback. Improve the OL. Hit the point that the QB is what’s limiting the offense. Then add a QB and build around his skill set.

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2 minutes ago, derp said:

Team looked better with two playmakers (Hall and Wilson) than one (Wilson). Keep adding playmakers. Find someone who can tread water at quarterback. Improve the OL. Hit the point that the QB is what’s limiting the offense. Then add a QB and build around his skill set.

Hall may not be the same after his surgery. That crazy speed and burst may take a hit. 

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1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

Is there a chance they do nothing with the coaches, after all this fail?

They’re doing something. Saleh is well aware that this approach wasn’t the right one, but he was put in a tough spot because one of the internal criticisms of him last year was having to play musical chairs in the QB room and the optics of “over-coddling”. Rob Calabrese was QB coach in name only last year; his primary role was game planning, scouting the opponent, and scheme. He was Cavanaugh’s “intern” so to speak, and Cavanaugh made it clear that he was only coaching for last season. Saleh hoped that Calabrese was ready to have more day-to-day responsibilities coaching the QBs and the  royally backfired.  

What I don’t know is whether there will be a sacrificial lamb or if they’ll look to keep the same people in place and add support. They think Calabrese can be a strong coordinator and they think he’s really smart. They feel the same about LaFleur. Clearly, neither are very skilled at coaching up QBs. 

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1 minute ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I think it was obvious the rib injury made him a different QB. I don't know how else you explain his sudden lack of accuracy all over the field. How many times did the announcers say the word "sailed" when describing a MW pass yesterday?

brutal performance.

It was painful and obvious when watching that he didn't have it. What did he look like in practice?

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