Arrogance

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Saleh isn’t getting fired.  
 

It's easy to argue Saleh has been in over his head from the start, and was too arrogant to think he should surround himself with experienced coaches. 

It's one thing for JD to bring in - or for Saleh to be - a young, first-time HC. Everyone expects a couple bumps in the road unless you're talking about fans with unrealistic expectations. So that's fine, as those early bumps happen even with the ones who are ultimately very successful.

What's not fine is the arrogance of putting all these guys together in their first NFL stints in these jobs during a gutting-rebuild and expect any type of consistency in moving the ball & scoring points:

• 1st time HC
• 1st time OC
• 1st time WRC
• 1st time RBC
• experienced TE coach but no rostered NFL-level TEs
• and then, despite losing his one really experienced offensive coach - the QBC - to a tragic accident in late July, doesn't bring in a replacement for a full MONTH, and still started a rookie QB from week 1, despite going mostly unchallenged at BYU.
• Then in regime year 2, after seeing the rookie QB struggle mightily, hires a first time QBC to work with him. FFS.

Then on defense:

• 1st time DC (other than a few games of mop-up duty; this was the 1st time installing his own defense)
• 1st time DLC (Whitecotton; the guy QW was screaming at that earlier in the year)
• 1st time LBC (no wonder they rely upon & praise CJM so much)

And even the assistants aren't exactly loaded with experienced guys for these 1st time coaches/coordinators to lean upon & bounce things off:

• Assistant DL coach Scruggs = 1st time in this NFL role
• Defensive assistant Willingham = 1st time in this NFL role
• Offensive assistant Mack Brown =  1st time in this NFL role
• Special teams assistant Ghobrial = 1st time in this NFL role
• Defensive assistant Manning = 1st time in any NFL role since a brief stint as an asst DBC 5 yrs earlier; otherwise had mostly been coaching high school
• Offensive assistant Vandemerkt = 1st time in this NFL role
• Special teams assistant Leon Wash = loved watching him as a player - we all did - but he's here to coach, and this is his 1st time in any NFL coaching role

Experienced coaches:

• ST Coordinator Boyer
  • generally a good job; he can't punt it for Mann himself. Players seem to know the rules (e.g. Berrios knowing to field a KO by first putting 1 foot out of bounds) and we aren't plagued with block in the back penalties; then again we mostly fair catch this year so opportunities for that are down, lol.
• OL Coach Benton and his assistant OLC Wilkerson
  • has been handed rough deals between some questionable personnel & so many injuries
• DB Coach Manuel
  • generally fine once he was given talented players. Sauce has been incredible for a rookie, and Reed has never looked better; fair to give coach at least some credit for both
• TE Coach Middleton
  • meh; raw deal in 2021 being given no talent to coach.
  • This year's veterans now have unreliable hands & we're all discouraged by the lack of visible development with Ruckert.
  • Never developed a starter in 8 yrs in Jax; only big name was Orange Julius whose career effectively ended under Middleton's coaching)
• Situational decision making asst Shamash 
  • years of experience, but it was almost all with first time HCs who were fired: Chargers (Lynn), Jax (Bradley), TB (Schiano). The exceptions were 2021 with the Chargers, before getting let go (i.e. fired), and with Cleveland under Mangini.
  • So we end up with debacles from extra timeouts to punting on 4th & short in the 4th quarter down by 2 TDs, and more.
  • Turns out he's the one who sits next to MLF in the booth, advising him on what to call & when. FFS.

I get not wanting to hire retreads who were failures elsewhere, but a young team with all these coaches who'd just got promoted to their Jets job titles by Saleh? Looking at it all put together like this above, now I'm not sure if arrogance is a strong enough word.

Almost as arrogant as I am, thinking anyone's actually reading all my blabbering. But still.

[Tooooon]

Can you email me a cliff notes version?

[JTJet]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It's easy to argue Saleh has been in over his head from the start, and was too arrogant to think he should surround himself with experienced coaches. 

It's one thing for JD to bring in - or for Saleh to be - a young, first-time HC. Everyone expects a couple bumps in the road unless you're talking about fans with unrealistic expectations. So that's fine, as those early bumps happen even with the ones who are ultimately very successful.

What's not fine is the arrogance of putting all these guys together in their first NFL stints in these jobs during a gutting-rebuild and expect any type of consistency in moving the ball & scoring points:

• 1st time HC
• 1st time OC
• 1st time WRC
• 1st time RBC
• experienced TE coach but no rostered NFL-level TEs
• and then, despite losing his one really experienced offensive coach - the QBC - to a tragic accident in late July, doesn't bring in a replacement for a full MONTH, and still started a rookie QB from week 1, despite going mostly unchallenged at BYU.
• Then in regime year 2, after seeing the rookie QB struggle mightily, hires a first time QBC to work with him. FFS.

Then on defense:

• 1st time DC (other than a few games of mop-up duty; this was the 1st time installing his own defense)
• 1st time DLC (Whitecotton; the guy QW was screaming at that earlier in the year)
• 1st time LBC (no wonder they rely upon & praise CJM so much)

And even the assistants aren't exactly loaded with experienced guys for these 1st time coaches/coordinators to lean upon & bounce things off:

• Assistant DL coach Scruggs = 1st time in this NFL role
• Defensive assistant Willingham = 1st time in this NFL role
• Offensive assistant Mack Brown =  1st time in this NFL role
• Special teams assistant Ghobrial = 1st time in this NFL role
• Defensive assistant Manning = 1st time in any NFL role since a brief stint as an asst DBC 5 yrs earlier; otherwise had mostly been coaching high school
• Offensive assistant Vandemerkt = 1st time in this NFL role
• Special teams assistant Leon Wash = loved watching him as a player - we all did - but he's here to coach, and this is his 1st time in any NFL coaching role

Experienced coaches:

• ST Coordinator Boyer
  • generally a good job; he can't punt it for Mann himself. Players seem to know the rules (e.g. Berrios knowing to field a KO by first putting 1 foot out of bounds) and we aren't plagued with block in the back penalties; then again we mostly fair catch this year so opportunities for that are down, lol.
• OL Coach Benton and his assistant OLC Wilkerson
  • has been handed rough deals between some questionable personnel & so many injuries
• DB Coach Manuel
  • generally fine once he was given talented players. Sauce has been incredible for a rookie, and Reed has never looked better; fair to give coach at least some credit for both
• TE Coach Middleton
  • meh; raw deal in 2021 being given no talent to coach.
  • This year's veterans now have unreliable hands & we're all discouraged by the lack of visible development with Ruckert.
  • Never developed a starter in 8 yrs in Jax; only big name was Orange Julius whose career effectively ended under Middleton's coaching)
• Situational decision making asst Shamash 
  • years of experience, but it was almost all with first time HCs who were fired: Chargers (Lynn), Jax (Bradley), TB (Schiano). The exceptions were 2021 with the Chargers, before getting let go (i.e. fired), and with Cleveland under Mangini.
  • So we end up with debacles from extra timeouts to punting on 4th & short in the 4th quarter down by 2 TDs, and more.
  • Turns out he's the one who sits next to MLF in the booth, advising him on what to call & when. FFS.

I get not wanting to hire retreads who were failures elsewhere, but a young team with all these coaches who'd just got promoted to their Jets job titles by Saleh? Looking at it all put together like this above, now I'm not sure if arrogance is a strong enough word.

Almost as arrogant as I am, thinking anyone's actually reading all my blabbering. But still.

This is why JD should lose his job along with everyone he hired. 

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, Tooooon said:

Can you email me a cliff notes version?

It is arrogant of you to think I will abbreviate my thoughts for you. Or anyone.

 

[Hal N of Provo]

I’m concerned.  I watch the WRs and analysts say what I’m seeing - they either don’t know the routes or the designs are bad.   It’s probably both.  
 

I don’t think they coaches know how to coach.  They don’t know how to teach.  They don’t know how to get into the details.

Teaching, details, and execution is what the good coaches universally have.  The Ravens run attack works because they execute and do the little things.  The Hoodie does this.  All decent coaches do.

I think it’s going to be more of the same no matter which players join the offense next season.  

This team needs leadership from coaches.

This is a dumpster fire and they are in over their heads.  Offensive staff is bad.  Very bad. Players are going to be asking  for trades from the offense.  Every skill player not named Hall will ask for a trade.  
 

[football guy]

You won’t find many people around the league who will say the Jets lack talent on their staff, but I think you absolutely hit the nail on the head. 

Idk why but I think of this James Bond quote lol. A good team does not have one or the other; there’s balance. You want youth and talented coaches who haven’t been necessarily discovered yet, but you need to balance it with legitimate experience. Big mistake by Saleh 

• Q : It always makes me feel a bit melancholy. Grand old war ship. being ignominiously haunted away to scrap... The inevitability of time, don't you think? What do you see?

  James Bond : A bloody big ship. Excuse me.

  Q : 007. I'm your new Quartermaster.

  James Bond : You must be joking.

  Q : Why, because I'm not wearing a lab coat?

  James Bond : Because you still have spots.

  Q : My complexion is hardly relevant.

  James Bond : Your competence is.

  Q : Age is no guarantee of efficiency.

  James Bond : And youth is no guarantee of innovation.

  Q : Well, I'll hazard I can do more damage on my laptop sitting in my pajamas before my first cup of Earl Grey than you can do in a year in the field.

  James Bond : Oh, so why do you need me?

  Q : Every now and then a trigger has to be pulled.

  James Bond : Or not pulled. It's hard to know which in your pajamas. Q.

  Q : 007.

[Beerfish]

Well part of this is the aura that these guys feel they have portray as being totally in charge and being totally in control.

There can also be some insecurity in having a long time vet looking over your shoulder.

McVay certainly did it right when he was hired for the rams he brought in wade phillips for a few years.

I'm not a fan of Boyer at all  takes up rosters spots for kick cover guys and allows two big return tds.  As for Mann he can't punt for mann but he sure as hell can talk to the coach and gm and say we need to dump this guy.

Position coaches are always overly loyal to their players.

A long time GM not sure if it was wolf for the guy who built indy said, never ask an oline coach about the talent in his area because every one of them think they can make crap players into good players.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

8 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

I’m concerned.  I watch the WRs and analysts say what I’m seeing - they either don’t know the routes or the designs are bad.   It’s probably both.  
 

I don’t think they coaches know how to coach.  They don’t know how to teach.  They don’t know how to get into the details.

Teaching, details, and execution is what the good coaches universally have.  The Ravens run attack works because they execute and do the little things.  The Hoodie does this.  All decent coaches do.

I think it’s going to be more of the same no matter which players join the offense next season.  

This team needs leadership from coaches.

This is a dumpster fire and they are in over their heads.  Offensive staff is bad.  Very bad. Players are going to be asking  for trades from the offense.  Every skill player not named Hall will ask for a trade.  
 

How is a:

• a 7-9 team
• a team that is one play in 3-4 games away from 8-8
• a team that is one play away in 3-4 games away from playing a win and in the playoffs game on  Sunday
• a team that has gone from 2 to 4 to 7 wins
• a team that has 4 Pro Bowl players

a dumpster fire???  Please

[Maynard13]

They looked like 3rd graders playing pee wee football last year.  At least this year they matured but the meltdown in the last third of the season is pretty alarming.  The lack of adaption is totally on the coaching staff after Breece and AVT went down and Wilson imploding.  

[Warfish]

20 minutes ago, Tooooon said:

Can you email me a cliff notes version?

This was the cliffs notes version.

[Maynard13]

5 minutes ago, football guy said:

You won’t find many people around the league who will say the Jets lack talent on their staff, but I think you absolutely hit the nail on the head. 

Idk why but I think of this James Bond quote lol. A good team does not have one or the other; there’s balance. You want youth and talented coaches who haven’t been necessarily discovered yet, but you need to balance it with legitimate experience. Big mistake by Saleh 

• Q : It always makes me feel a bit melancholy. Grand old war ship. being ignominiously haunted away to scrap... The inevitability of time, don't you think? What do you see?

  James Bond : A bloody big ship. Excuse me.

  Q : 007. I'm your new Quartermaster.

  James Bond : You must be joking.

  Q : Why, because I'm not wearing a lab coat?

  James Bond : Because you still have spots.

  Q : My complexion is hardly relevant.

  James Bond : Your competence is.

  Q : Age is no guarantee of efficiency.

  James Bond : And youth is no guarantee of innovation.

  Q : Well, I'll hazard I can do more damage on my laptop sitting in my pajamas before my first cup of Earl Grey than you can do in a year in the field.

  James Bond : Oh, so why do you need me?

  Q : Every now and then a trigger has to be pulled.

  James Bond : Or not pulled. It's hard to know which in your pajamas. Q.

  Q : 007.

Bond James Bond

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

1 minute ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

How is a:

• a 7-9 team
• a team that is one play in 3-4 games away from 8-8
• a team that is one play away in 3-4 games away from playing a win and in the playoffs game on  Sunday
• a team that has gone from 2 to 4 to 7 wins
• a team that has 4 Pro Bowl players

a dumpster fire???  Please

That's not to say I disagree with the OP.  I think the term "dumpster fire" is an extreme overreaction

[SoFlaJets]

Clean house fire them all-I'm serious, including Joe Douglas. This team is exactly where it was when Todd Bowles was fired, then when Adam Gase was fired to the next to last game before we lose our 7th game in a row. Douglas has been a failure, Saleh has failed mightily after arrogantly saying he would be "taking receipts"

[Fantasy Island]

15 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

How is a:

• a 7-9 team
• a team that is one play in 3-4 games away from 8-8
• a team that is one play away in 3-4 games away from playing a win and in the playoffs game on  Sunday
• a team that has gone from 2 to 4 to 7 wins
• a team that has 4 Pro Bowl players

a dumpster fire???  Please

 

[Sonny Werblin]

It’s only arrogant if Saleh can’t get over the hump and make it work. Well, I guess that’s still arrogance - - albeit ultimately justifiable arrogance.

It is clear that he didn’t exclude ALL experienced coaches. Perhaps it was the byproduct of most experienced coaches not sharing certain philosophies about coaching today’s professional football players? Or, that in combination with a desire to exclude coaches who possessed a level of credibility with players that risked the HCs desire to control the message. I know that BB has cited this as the reason for him having the fewest number of assistant coaches (by a wide margin) in the NFL.

[CanadaSteve]

11 minutes ago, SoFlaJets said:

Clean house fire them all-I'm serious, including Joe Douglas. This team is exactly where it was when Todd Bowles was fired, then when Adam Gase was fired to the next to last game before we lose our 7th game in a row. Douglas has been a failure, Saleh has failed mightily after arrogantly saying he would be "taking receipts"

Yeah...Now THAT will work.  Just like it did the past decade.  

 

[CanadaSteve]

13 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

 

Still doesn't answer Joe's question.

Zach doens't make this team a dumpster fire.

This team is in the playoffs with at least 15 of the starting QB's in this league.  That kinda proves they are not a dumpster fire.

 

[Hal N of Provo]

26 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

How is a:

• a 7-9 team
• a team that is one play in 3-4 games away from 8-8
• a team that is one play away in 3-4 games away from playing a win and in the playoffs game on  Sunday
• a team that has gone from 2 to 4 to 7 wins
• a team that has 4 Pro Bowl players

a dumpster fire???  Please

The defense is good.  The offense is pathetic.  I blame the coaches on offense for not being able to teach the details players need to know.   WRs are running routes in the right ball park but cutting 5 yards late let’s the other WRs defender help.  Little stuff like that are happening all over the field.  

[Sperm Edwards]

For comparison, since people here are talking about the Giants

Daboll = first year HC. His hires:

OC = Kafka was also a first year coordinator, but from from KC's high powered offense. Was the Chiefs' QBC from '18-19, and Reid promoted him to pass game coordinator while also still keeping him in the QBC role. 

DC = experienced coach has been on NFL sidelines since 2004. Was the Ravens' DC the past 4 yrs after Harbaugh promoted him from LBC.

STC = kept prior one just like the Jets did

TE C = experienced NFL TE coach with tangible player results: M.Bennett had his best seasons under him in Chicago. Then in Balt, rookie  TE Andrews took off under him. Was only given a 4th rd rookie with the Giants this year, but despite a weak QB who doesn't throw to the TEs much - just ~ 3 per game - the rookie's catch rate is 86%. Having a better rookie season than Ruckert anyway, who was supposed to be a good amount more talented yet seems to be 4th string.

RBC = is 1st NFL yr in this role but he's an older guy & anyway his starter is an uber-talented veteran who's finally 100% again.

QBC = is close with Daboll from Buffalo where he was the asst QBC. New to the job, but was known by the offensive-sided HC.

WRC = had 7 yrs prior NFL experience in this role (incl as WRC for the 2017 SB champs; plus NFL experience as a pass game coordinator and 2 yrs as an offensive coordinator).

OLC = was the Bills' OLC the prior 3 seasons. Also prior OLC experience with Detroit. Past 12 yrs had been an NFL coach.

Asst OLC Sparano Jr = had prior asst OLC exp for 3 different teams, plus his NFL coach dad had surely been training him for yrs, like the WRC.

Analytics guy = a n00b coach, but is a computer nerd from Harvard (where he played WR, fwiw), which is probably what you want.

DLC = experienced as well. 13 yrs as an NFL DL coach prior to 2022. Also other NFL leadership roles as co-DC and asst HC with Minnesota.

Asst DLC = Bryan Cox = obvious (to Jets fans) prior playing & defensive coaching experience. Several prior yrs as DL coach and pass rush coach. This is another experienced assistant on the Giants' staff.

Separate ILB and OLB coaches. OLB coach has worked with the DC for a decade. ILB coach was an asst LB coach in Buffalo with Daboll.

DBC = 8 yrs NFL exp as DBC + 4 more as defensive passing game coordinator

 

Any rookie HC is going to have at least a few guys new to the role, but compare the coaching experience of this 1st year staff to Saleh's. It just exudes more respect from the players compared to a staff where 75% of them were first promoted to this job title by Saleh in 2021.

 

[Fantasy Island]

6 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Still doesn't answer Joe's question.

Zach doens't make this team a dumpster fire.

This team is in the playoffs with at least 15 of the starting QB's in this league.  That kinda proves they are not a dumpster fire.

 

I'm just pointing to the elephant in the room.  Zach's failures as a QB sank all the good that the rest of the team exuded.  The fact that they put him back out there after benching him shows what little regard Saleh has for the rest of the team.  If the directive to play him came from Douglas, then shame on Saleh again for not putting the team first and bucking that order.

[Sperm Edwards]

37 minutes ago, Warfish said:

This was the cliffs notes version.

How could I miss this obvious reply?

I'm slipping.

[Maxman]

The 'tldr version is this:

Sperm Edwards says the only reason the coaches praise CJ Mosley is because he is older than the coaches.

[VJphillyfan]

Lafleur is falling on the sword for the season. Saleh will get one more year

 

and btw, Payton is not fixing Suck Wilson

[Maxman]

2 minutes ago, VJphillyfan said:

Lafleur is falling on the sword for the season. Saleh will get one more year

 

and btw, Payton is not fixing Suck Wilson

There is no sword. Ulbrich didn't get fired last year. LaFleur isn't getting fired this year.

The old saying is when you have 4 QBs you have no QBs lol.

[FactsOnly]

No more blaming everything on Zach Wilson by clueless fans who don’t know the sport 

Vindication, glorious!

[FactsOnly]

2 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

The defense is good.  The offense is pathetic.  I blame the coaches on offense for not being able to teach the details players need to know.   WRs are running routes in the right ball park but cutting 5 yards late let’s the other WRs defender help.  Little stuff like that are happening all over the field.  

People blamed Wilson for this?

[jgb]

4 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It's easy to argue Saleh has been in over his head from the start, and was too arrogant to think he should surround himself with experienced coaches. 

It's one thing for JD to bring in - or for Saleh to be - a young, first-time HC. Everyone expects a couple bumps in the road unless you're talking about fans with unrealistic expectations. So that's fine, as those early bumps happen even with the ones who are ultimately very successful.

What's not fine is the arrogance of putting all these guys together in their first NFL stints in these jobs during a gutting-rebuild and expect any type of consistency in moving the ball & scoring points:

• 1st time HC
• 1st time OC
• 1st time WRC
• 1st time RBC
• experienced TE coach but no rostered NFL-level TEs
• and then, despite losing his one really experienced offensive coach - the QBC - to a tragic accident in late July, doesn't bring in a replacement for a full MONTH, and still started a rookie QB from week 1, despite going mostly unchallenged at BYU.
• Then in regime year 2, after seeing the rookie QB struggle mightily, hires a first time QBC to work with him. FFS.

Then on defense:

• 1st time DC (other than a few games of mop-up duty; this was the 1st time installing his own defense)
• 1st time DLC (Whitecotton; the guy QW was screaming at that earlier in the year)
• 1st time LBC (no wonder they rely upon & praise CJM so much)

And even the assistants aren't exactly loaded with experienced guys for these 1st time coaches/coordinators to lean upon & bounce things off:

• Assistant DL coach Scruggs = 1st time in this NFL role
• Defensive assistant Willingham = 1st time in this NFL role
• Offensive assistant Mack Brown =  1st time in this NFL role
• Special teams assistant Ghobrial = 1st time in this NFL role
• Defensive assistant Manning = 1st time in any NFL role since a brief stint as an asst DBC 5 yrs earlier; otherwise had mostly been coaching high school
• Offensive assistant Vandemerkt = 1st time in this NFL role
• Special teams assistant Leon Wash = loved watching him as a player - we all did - but he's here to coach, and this is his 1st time in any NFL coaching role

Experienced coaches:

• ST Coordinator Boyer
  • generally a good job; he can't punt it for Mann himself. Players seem to know the rules (e.g. Berrios knowing to field a KO by first putting 1 foot out of bounds) and we aren't plagued with block in the back penalties; then again we mostly fair catch this year so opportunities for that are down, lol.
• OL Coach Benton and his assistant OLC Wilkerson
  • has been handed rough deals between some questionable personnel & so many injuries
• DB Coach Manuel
  • generally fine once he was given talented players. Sauce has been incredible for a rookie, and Reed has never looked better; fair to give coach at least some credit for both
• TE Coach Middleton
  • meh; raw deal in 2021 being given no talent to coach.
  • This year's veterans now have unreliable hands & we're all discouraged by the lack of visible development with Ruckert.
  • Never developed a starter in 8 yrs in Jax; only big name was Orange Julius whose career effectively ended under Middleton's coaching)
• Situational decision making asst Shamash 
  • years of experience, but it was almost all with first time HCs who were fired: Chargers (Lynn), Jax (Bradley), TB (Schiano). The exceptions were 2021 with the Chargers, before getting let go (i.e. fired), and with Cleveland under Mangini.
  • So we end up with debacles from extra timeouts to punting on 4th & short in the 4th quarter down by 2 TDs, and more.
  • Turns out he's the one who sits next to MLF in the booth, advising him on what to call & when. FFS.

I get not wanting to hire retreads who were failures elsewhere, but a young team with all these coaches who'd just got promoted to their Jets job titles by Saleh? Looking at it all put together like this above, now I'm not sure if arrogance is a strong enough word.

Almost as arrogant as I am, thinking anyone's actually reading all my blabbering. But still.

Sales doesn’t have strong enough pull and network around league to attract and bring along experienced assistants. Another risk factor of hiring rookie HCs.

[T0mShane]

Great post, but I think the bigger problem is that this is what every staff throughout history looks like when the GM drafts an historically bad QB prospect. There’s simply no overcoming it.

RE staff, I don’t think it shows arrogance—it’s insecurity. He hired his buddies who will never, ever challenge his authority or threaten his job by being a viable interim. 

[jamesr]

Can you email me a cliff notes version?

"You'll win nothing with kids"

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Charlie Brown]

7 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It's easy to argue Saleh has been in over his head from the start, and was too arrogant to think he should surround himself with experienced coaches. 

It's one thing for JD to bring in - or for Saleh to be - a young, first-time HC. Everyone expects a couple bumps in the road unless you're talking about fans with unrealistic expectations. So that's fine, as those early bumps happen even with the ones who are ultimately very successful.

What's not fine is the arrogance of putting all these guys together in their first NFL stints in these jobs during a gutting-rebuild and expect any type of consistency in moving the ball & scoring points:

• 1st time HC
• 1st time OC
• 1st time WRC
• 1st time RBC
• experienced TE coach but no rostered NFL-level TEs
• and then, despite losing his one really experienced offensive coach - the QBC - to a tragic accident in late July, doesn't bring in a replacement for a full MONTH, and still started a rookie QB from week 1, despite going mostly unchallenged at BYU.
• Then in regime year 2, after seeing the rookie QB struggle mightily, hires a first time QBC to work with him. FFS.

Then on defense:

• 1st time DC (other than a few games of mop-up duty; this was the 1st time installing his own defense)
• 1st time DLC (Whitecotton; the guy QW was screaming at that earlier in the year)
• 1st time LBC (no wonder they rely upon & praise CJM so much)

And even the assistants aren't exactly loaded with experienced guys for these 1st time coaches/coordinators to lean upon & bounce things off:

• Assistant DL coach Scruggs = 1st time in this NFL role
• Defensive assistant Willingham = 1st time in this NFL role
• Offensive assistant Mack Brown =  1st time in this NFL role
• Special teams assistant Ghobrial = 1st time in this NFL role
• Defensive assistant Manning = 1st time in any NFL role since a brief stint as an asst DBC 5 yrs earlier; otherwise had mostly been coaching high school
• Offensive assistant Vandemerkt = 1st time in this NFL role
• Special teams assistant Leon Wash = loved watching him as a player - we all did - but he's here to coach, and this is his 1st time in any NFL coaching role

Experienced coaches:

• ST Coordinator Boyer
  • generally a good job; he can't punt it for Mann himself. Players seem to know the rules (e.g. Berrios knowing to field a KO by first putting 1 foot out of bounds) and we aren't plagued with block in the back penalties; then again we mostly fair catch this year so opportunities for that are down, lol.
• OL Coach Benton and his assistant OLC Wilkerson
  • has been handed rough deals between some questionable personnel & so many injuries
• DB Coach Manuel
  • generally fine once he was given talented players. Sauce has been incredible for a rookie, and Reed has never looked better; fair to give coach at least some credit for both
• TE Coach Middleton
  • meh; raw deal in 2021 being given no talent to coach.
  • This year's veterans now have unreliable hands & we're all discouraged by the lack of visible development with Ruckert.
  • Never developed a starter in 8 yrs in Jax; only big name was Orange Julius whose career effectively ended under Middleton's coaching)
• Situational decision making asst Shamash 
  • years of experience, but it was almost all with first time HCs who were fired: Chargers (Lynn), Jax (Bradley), TB (Schiano). The exceptions were 2021 with the Chargers, before getting let go (i.e. fired), and with Cleveland under Mangini.
  • So we end up with debacles from extra timeouts to punting on 4th & short in the 4th quarter down by 2 TDs, and more.
  • Turns out he's the one who sits next to MLF in the booth, advising him on what to call & when. FFS.

I get not wanting to hire retreads who were failures elsewhere, but a young team with all these coaches who'd just got promoted to their Jets job titles by Saleh? Looking at it all put together like this above, now I'm not sure if arrogance is a strong enough word.

Almost as arrogant as I am, thinking anyone's actually reading all my blabbering. But still.

@football guy pointed some of this out concerning Zach Wilson and for me it was Insane!

Insane; he actually pointed out that behind the scenes without revealing sources that you have a situation whereby no one on the staff has ANY experience developing a young QB, an unwillingness to confront coaches who don’t know what they are doing and poor communication from MLF to those who literally don’t know what they are doing! Hahahahaha crazy the situation is confusing just writing it down!

How in the world do you permit that for QB coming from a small school who was going to need significant mentorship in transitioning into the NFL? For example, this is not the job of an experienced QB in Flacco who still wants to play!

To me this is a Jet continuing institutional failure, believing in a sort of magic dust, whereby guys who have never developed a QB before or an effective offense, are going to do it in the NFL, in the most difficult division in football.

This is scary and actually explains why Zach isn’t “getting” it (I was a Fields guy), because the folks directing him really don’t know what to do! Think on that the Jets coaches don’t know what they are doing and are actually learning on the job! 

Finally, @football guy pointed out in his thread that things only improve when Saleh himself steps in and corrects things and that he is helping to literally train coaches while trying to win.  Indeed, Saleh mentioned this very same thing in his last press conference. 

It is simply amazing to me and most importantly unacceptable.  

[BP]

I love bullet points!! More bullet points please!!

 

If Saleh doubles down on his arrogance and doesn’t fire some of his coordinators. That may be the last straw and cost him his job.

 

he looked like deer in headlights all game Sunday 

[BP]

Did your wife call you a loser again walking by the computer while you were typing that?

[Bronx]

[T0mShane]

22 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

@football guy pointed some of this out concerning Zach Wilson and for me it was Insane!

Insane; he actually pointed out that behind the scenes without revealing sources that you have a situation whereby no one on the staff has ANY experience developing a young QB, an unwillingness to confront coaches who don’t know what they are doing and poor communication from MLF to those who literally don’t know what they are doing! Hahahahaha crazy the situation is confusing just writing it down!

How in the world do you permit that for QB coming from a small school who was going to need significant mentorship in transitioning into the NFL? For example, this is not the job of an experienced QB in Flacco who still wants to play!

To me this is a Jet continuing institutional failure, believing in a sort of magic dust, whereby guys who have never developed a QB before or an effective offense, are going to do it in the NFL, in the most difficult division in football.

This is scary and actually explains why Zach isn’t “getting” it (I was a Fields guy), because the folks directing him really don’t know what to do! Think on that the Jets coaches don’t know what they are doing and are actually learning on the job! 

Finally, @football guy pointed out in his thread that things only improve when Saleh himself steps in and corrects things and that he is helping to literally train coaches while trying to win.  Indeed, Saleh mentioned this very same thing in his last press conference. 

It is simply amazing to me and most importantly unacceptable.  

Go look at Greg Knapp’s history with “young QBs.” 

[Xtina]

7 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

How is a:

• a 7-9 team
• a team that is one play in 3-4 games away from 8-8
• a team that is one play away in 3-4 games away from playing a win and in the playoffs game on  Sunday
• a team that has gone from 2 to 4 to 7 wins
• a team that has 4 Pro Bowl players

a dumpster fire???  Please

The near misses you mention are the back breakers. A good team doesn’t have so many collapsing its season