The Saleh two year postmortem-Why he ultimately failed

[OverweightJetsFan]

I was pretty excited when the Jets hired Saleh. At the very least I thought he would bring some much needed intensity after the comatose duo of Todd Bowles and Adam Gase 

Two years in, this is Robert Saleh: 

-10-22 overall record (not counting Ron Middleton’s win).

-He completely whiffed on developing his hand picked QB and first ever draft 

-The previous regimes last rookie class has regressed mightily under his guidance 

-He has overseen a complete collapse to end his second year 

-He transformed the defense into a playoff caliber unit in one year 

Although Robert Saleh will likely return to the Jets in 2023 his tenure here looks to be trending towards failure. 

What mistakes did he make?

#1-I didn’t like how he subtly ripped past regimes publicly last year. On a few instances he alluded to the fact that the cupboard was bare when he arrived. Overall I felt he lacked a sense of urgency to win last year. You don’t come to NY and think you aren’t going to be measured on wins and losses. For most of his first season it felt like the Jets were playing pre-season games and he was content with it because young players were getting reps. Awful! 
 

#2-Hired an inexperienced staff. This has been well documented. Again, this to me stemmed from his lack of urgency to win immediately. A lot of buddy hires were made.

#3-Something wrong with the way he prepares the team. The Jets have been outscored 144-39 in games after extended prep time under this coach. It’s almost like the more he tries to prepare them the worse they play. 
 

#4-Picked the wrong QB. These head coaches are all egomaniacs. My guess that in Salehs mind the only reason he failed here was Zach Wilson. 

[dbatesman]

2 minutes ago, OverweightJetsFan said:

The Jets have been outscored 144-39 in games after extended prep time under this coach. It’s almost like the more he tries to prepare them the worse they play. 

This is incredibly damning.

[k-met57]

you can't "ultimately fail" when you are still on the job, and going to be next year. lets talk next season.

[SickJetFan]

Saleh came in said they were going to change the env and dev players and coaches

so who?

case may be made for

MCII

Sherwood (but have not seen much of that yet)

who else?

offense?

coaches?

[slimjasi]

I think you basically nailed it. This is a nice summary for why one might decide to fire Saleh after this year.

He’ll almost definitely be back, but it’s not looking good. 
 

 

[Gen X Jet]

What about players asking for trades? I don’t even remember that happening under Gase?

[T0mShane]

If he gets bounced, it’ll be because of Gase-like hubris. Gase was more flagrant and condescending, but Saleh is right there with him in terms of thinking he‘s better than he is by virtue of having been adjacent to better coaches. He’s getting rolled by the political aspects of the job, he’s been terrible in the forward-facing aspects of the job, and he hasn’t shown the ability to carry the stick when discipline was called for. He needs to do a Pete Carroll-like reset wherein he learns to balance being popular with also being a leader, because the franchise looks like it’s adrift right now. 

[Lith]

36 minutes ago, OverweightJetsFan said:

10-22 overall record (not counting Ron Middleton’s win).

-He completely whiffed on developing his hand picked QB and first ever draft 

Can't have it both ways.  If you are going to blame him because the staff he hired did not develop the QB, you have to give credit when a  guy he hired leads the team to a W.  Not that 11-22 makes that much of a difference, just a bit unfair to blame him when his staff fails but not give him credit when his staff succeeds.

36 minutes ago, OverweightJetsFan said:

-The previous regimes last rookie class has regressed mightily under his guidance 

It is not his fault that Macc's last draft sucked.  Becton has been injured 2x.  Mims maybe would have been better under a different staff.  Beyond that, it was a bad draft.  Not Saleh's fault

36 minutes ago, OverweightJetsFan said:

He has overseen a complete collapse to end his second year 

Agreed.  Don't see how anyone could argue this point.

36 minutes ago, OverweightJetsFan said:

-He transformed the defense into a playoff caliber unit in one year 

Maybe, but if the defense could have made a few plays over the last 5 weeks, maybe they would still have a chance to steal a playoff spot tomorrow.

[RedBeardedSavage]

Didn't we just pick the wrong quarterback?

If it's a safe assumption that Derek Carr wins ten games here, then I don't see how this regime is truly terrible and worth firing.

Unless we're getting Harbaugh or Payton, I keep JD and Saleh... under the condition that we need a new starting quarterback - none of this "Wilson will figure it out in year 3" gamble. 

[Barry McCockinner]

He's going to have to LaFire his buddy and bring in an experienced OC & QB this offseason to turn it around. I don't see how he can go status quo there and expect things to work out. I will say I was screaming the same about the defense this year too and somehow that magically turned around. Hard to imagine the same thing with the way the offense has gone although the number of injuries to the o-line this year could be an excuse.

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Didn't we just pick the wrong quarterback?

If it's a safe assumption that Derek Carr wins ten games here, then I don't see how this regime is truly terrible and worth firing.

I don’t think that’s a safe assumption at all, although certainly possible 

[jetswinbaby!]

He's better than Gase...

Come on...

How much more do you want?...

[UntouchableCrew]

I think this is a bit overstated. I like a lot of what I’ve seen from Saleh.

I think hiring a largely inexperienced staff is a legit knock but if Zach Wilson wasn’t unplayable this is a playoff team and we aren’t having this conversation.

[BigRy56]

2 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I think this is a bit overstated. I like a lot of what I’ve seen from Saleh.

I think hiring a largely inexperienced staff is a legit knock but if Zach Wilson wasn’t unplayable this is a playoff team and we aren’t having this conversation.

Right on the money 

[RedBeardedSavage]

Just now, slimjasi said:

I don’t think that’s a safe assumption at all, although certainly possible 

This may be a wild, but I feel like Mike White and Derek Carr are very similar players - i.e. consummate professionals without much flash to their game. They can make most of the throws, get the ball out on time and read a defense.

With the benefit of hindsight, it looks like Mike White could've led us to ten wins if he was the starter week one.

[TuscanyTile2]

"He's such a meathead!"

-Chris Simms on Robert Saleh

[varjet]

11 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

With the benefit of hindsight, it looks like Mike White could've led us to ten wins if he was the starter week one.

If MW was the starter from Week 1, how many games/17 does he start?  8? 9?

MW is a FA now.  He can play where he wants to.  

I am not adverse to a revolving QB room of Wilson/White/Minshew rolling with is CS in what is likely their last year.  

[T0mShane]

20 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

He's going to have to LaFire his buddy and bring in an experienced OC & QB this offseason to turn it around. I don't see how he can go status quo there and expect things to work out. I will say I was screaming the same about the defense this year too and somehow that magically turned around. Hard to imagine the same thing with the way the offense has gone although the number of injuries to the o-line this year could be an excuse.

The problem with this path is that you’d be asking for an established OC to come to a team with no QB, a dubious OL group, and an RB1 coming off an ACL and ask him to install a new offense over the summer, and do all this with the knowledge that, if you fail, everyone is getting fired in a calendar year. Who wants that job?

[Larz]

Week 1;

QB1= Zach, QB2=Flacco, QB3=MW

week 17; basically a playoff game 

QB1=MW, QB2=Flacco , Zach is inactive although physically healthy. 
 

MW is playing hurt, then gets pancaked on a drive that starts on the jets 5 yard line with 45 seconds left in the half. Plays entire half obviously suffering. Flacco does not play. Ugly loss. 
 

week18; 

QB1= Flacco, QB2=Zach

MW cannot play, now magically Flacco is good enough to start, Zach is supposed to be on the shelf , yet now can back up. 

JD brought in 2 QBs that the head coach deemed unplayable in a big big late season game, then has the hubris to tell fans it’s not about the playoffs, asks “where is the patience”?

we all know this, I’m just documenting it for future generations lol. 
 

the worst part for me is the information that Saleh volunteered about Zach going to dark places and “why me”?

That information didn’t come out via some cloak and dagger investigation.  He said it into a microphone at a press conference.  He torpedoed his own QB. 
 

I also started to get concerned when he was outcoached by the Vikings coach. It became a pattern. Pederson  ran circles around him. 
 

P.S. we need to stop crediting him for the defense, as he himself said, “a monkey could call this defense”

he actually said that.  How is he still here ?  

[Barry McCockinner]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

The problem with this path is that you’d be asking for an established OC to come to a team with no QB, a dubious OL group, and an RB1 coming off an ACL and ask him to install a new offense over the summer, and do all this with the knowledge that, if you fail, everyone is getting fired in a calendar year. Who wants that job?

Their are a lot of guys out there with experience in the Shanahan system. I think they could find a compatible replacement that would make the transition and installation less painful than going from say - a Gase offense (whatever that was).

A QB has to be added either way.

I think JD and Saleh probably have a lot more respect within the walls of the NFL GM's and coaches than they do on JN. 

As for specifically who wants the job, I have no idea but it's not like there's a ton of NFL offensive coordinator positions available if you want one.

[Zachtomims47]

He failed because the QB play was a fn mess. End of story. 

[Barry McCockinner]

3 minutes ago, Larz said:

Week 1;

QB1= Zach, QB2=Flacco, QB3=MW

week 17; basically a playoff game 

QB1=MW, QB2=Flacco , Zach is inactive although physically healthy. 
 

MW is playing hurt, then gets pancaked on a drive that starts on the jets 5 yard line with 45 seconds left in the half. Plays entire half obviously suffering. Flacco does not play. Ugly loss. 
 

week18; 

QB1= Flacco, QB2=Zach

MW cannot play, now magically Flacco is good enough to start, Zach is supposed to be on the shelf , yet now can back up. 

JD brought in 2 QBs that the head coach deemed unplayable in a big big late season game, then has the hubris to tell fans it’s not about the playoffs, asks “where is the patience”?

we all know this, I’m just documenting it for future generations lol. 
 

the worst part for me is the information that Saleh volunteered about Zach going to dark places and “why me”?

That information didn’t come out via some cloak and dagger investigation.  He said it into a microphone at a press conference.  He torpedoed his own QB. 
 

I also started to get concerned when he was outcoached by the Vikings coach. It became a pattern. Pederson  ran circles around him. 
 

P.S. we need to stop crediting him for the defense, as he himself said, “a monkey could call this defense”

he actually said that.  How is he still here ?  

I know it's not your point but Wilson was inactive W1 too.

[Rangers9]

He's plus 3 maybe 4 for wins this season and the defense was greatly improved. So as dysfunctional as the offense was this season the guy imo deserves a 3rd season. 

[T0mShane]

10 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Their are a lot of guys out there with experience in the Shanahan system. I think they could find a compatible replacement that would make the transition and installation less painful than going from say - a Gase offense (whatever that was).

A QB has to be added either way.

I think JD and Saleh probably have a lot more respect within the walls of the NFL GM's and coaches than they do on JN. 

As for specifically who wants the job, I have no idea but it's not like there's a ton of NFL offensive coordinator positions available if you want one.

Yeah, but if you’re firing LaFleur AND recruiting one of the veteran QBs AND trying to hire a new OC, you have to coordinate those steps rapidly, because you’re not getting the QB without an OC in place and you’re not getting one of the established OCs without having the QB in place. 

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, SickJetFan said:

Saleh came in said they were going to change the env and dev players and coaches

so who?

case may be made for

MCII

Sherwood (but have not seen much of that yet)

who else?

offense?

coaches?

You don’t think the 2Qs, Huff, this pretty much this seasons entire roster are developing? 

[Adoni Beast]

50 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

.He needs to do a Pete Carroll-like reset wherein he learns to balance being popular with also being a leader, because the franchise looks like it’s adrift right now. 

Since you mention Carroll-reset….I can totally see Saleh’s gimmick working well in college.

[Jetsfan80]

52 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

He's going to have to LaFire his buddy and bring in an experienced OC & QB this offseason to turn it around. I don't see how he can go status quo there and expect things to work out. I will say I was screaming the same about the defense this year too and somehow that magically turned around. Hard to imagine the same thing with the way the offense has gone although the number of injuries to the o-line this year could be an excuse.

“LaFire”.  ?

[Barry McCockinner]

22 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Yeah, but if you’re firing LaFleur AND recruiting one of the veteran QBs AND trying to hire a new OC, you have to coordinate those steps rapidly, because you’re not getting the QB without an OC in place and you’re not getting one of the established OCs without having the QB in place. 

So you're saying we're getting LaFleur and Mayfield in 2023?

[SickJetFan]

14 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You don’t think 2Qs, Huff, this pretty much this seasons entire roster are developing? 

Q benefit from switch to 4/3 but has that unicorn talent that isnt really taught so no...big brother has been meh and yeah ok.  Huff doesnt really get to play much and seemed on an upward trajectory when Williams was still here (should have never left)

if not for sucking sooo bad in 2021 they would not have player like Sauce, Breece, GW who are arguably best players on team and didnt need much development

so which else of this Entire roster you refering to?

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

40 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The problem with this path is that you’d be asking for an established OC to come to a team with no QB, a dubious OL group, and an RB1 coming off an ACL and ask him to install a new offense over the summer, and do all this with the knowledge that, if you fail, everyone is getting fired in a calendar year. Who wants that job?

Plenty of people on this forum would sign up ;). The sad thing is they might be more qualified than the garbage we’ve been ‘blessed to witness’.

It’s a very fair point you bring up, and it’s going to handcuff Saleh, especially the part about the potential for the entire staff to be fired next year. 

[SickJetFan]

31 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Yeah, but if you’re firing LaFleur AND recruiting one of the veteran QBs AND trying to hire a new OC, you have to coordinate those steps rapidly, because you’re not getting the QB without an OC in place and you’re not getting one of the established OCs without having the QB in place. 

yeah Saleh needs to dig deep.  There is only 31 of these jobs in the world and just because you dont know all names of all the qualified candidates doesnt meant they aint out there.

[THE BARON]

1 hour ago, OverweightJetsFan said:

I was pretty excited when the Jets hired Saleh. At the very least I thought he would bring some much needed intensity after the comatose duo of Todd Bowles and Adam Gase 

Two years in, this is Robert Saleh: 

-10-22 overall record (not counting Ron Middleton’s win).

-He completely whiffed on developing his hand picked QB and first ever draft 

-The previous regimes last rookie class has regressed mightily under his guidance 

-He has overseen a complete collapse to end his second year 

-He transformed the defense into a playoff caliber unit in one year 

Although Robert Saleh will likely return to the Jets in 2023 his tenure here looks to be trending towards failure. 

What mistakes did he make?

#1-I didn’t like how he subtly ripped past regimes publicly last year. On a few instances he alluded to the fact that the cupboard was bare when he arrived. Overall I felt he lacked a sense of urgency to win last year. You don’t come to NY and think you aren’t going to be measured on wins and losses. For most of his first season it felt like the Jets were playing pre-season games and he was content with it because young players were getting reps. Awful! 
 

#2-Hired an inexperienced staff. This has been well documented. Again, this to me stemmed from his lack of urgency to win immediately. A lot of buddy hires were made.

#3-Something wrong with the way he prepares the team. The Jets have been outscored 144-39 in games after extended prep time under this coach. It’s almost like the more he tries to prepare them the worse they play. 
 

#4-Picked the wrong QB. These head coaches are all egomaniacs. My guess that in Salehs mind the only reason he failed here was Zach Wilson. 

QB. QB, QB... 

[Rich Thornburgh]

Defensive coach who isn’t particularly skilled at X’s and O’s 

[Dunnie]

Lack.of player development will be his albatross.

Not only did Zach not improve, Becton flamed completely out with his therapy, Moore turned into a whiny Satinioesque bitch, the OL regressed, the RBs regressed, the TEs didn't improve even with the FA acquisitions ...

His tenure is an epic fail.at this point.



Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Rich Thornburgh]

12 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

So you're saying we're getting LaFleur and Mayfield in 2023?

I think I’d rather drink bleach than watch those 2.  Even Zach Wilson starting next year would be more compelling