Rumor: Woody Wants LaFleur, Offensive Staff, LaFired

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, Dcat said:

Then dump all 3.  Jets fans do not want 2023 to be a redo of 2022 and keeping all 3 brings us right there.

You do not speak for all Jets fans.  I do want them back.  I think with a mediocre QB they can do some damage.  I also don't think that an owner changing the staff based on what Jets fans want is a recipe for a successful franchise.

[Dcat]

3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You do not speak for all Jets fans.  I do want them back.  I think with a mediocre QB they can do some damage.  I also don't think that an owner changing the staff based on what Jets fans want is a recipe for a successful franchise.

Well this board does not agree.  We had 5, count 'em 5 votes for keep all 3 out of about 100.  You're in the 5%.  I'm in the 95%.   Saleh sucks as a HC if he can't see the disaster that is MLF.  If you don't fire him, then demote him and bring in a superior (which is what they are hinting when speaking of looking for some offensive "assistant") 

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Joejet said:

The only problem with that is Wilson isn’t the only one whose skills deteriorated under MLF. Mims took a step back from year 1 under Gase to his time under MLF. We all blamed Mims but now you have to wonder. This year both Carter and Moore seemed to take a step back also. If they aren’t going to let MLF go they definitely need to bring in a strong experienced offensive coach to help with getting this offense on track. Everyone thinks this is the Shanahan offense but Shanahan uses a fullback 40% of the time and MLF almost never does. That fullback would help especially in the red zone. The offense that MLF uses is more of the version his brother uses at Green Bay. That doesn’t work as well when you don’t have a hall of fame QB running it.

LaFleur has his warts, but it’s tough to hang Mims, Michael Carter, and Zach directly on him. Mims and Carter are backups who have faded as backups, which happens everywhere. Zach just sucks. The guy that everyone is bow retroactively calling a genius who was going to fix Zach—Greg Knapp—was Jamarcus Russell’s offensive coordinator. Sometimes these guys just can’t play. 

[JTJet]

This seems like it needs to be brought up again...

While Woody is ultimately responsible for everything, hes the owner, so no changes happening there, so let it the **** go. 

Any good organizational structure operates in this fashion, and as it stands it lays at the feet of Joe Douglas to implement the neccessary changes.

Woody ain't firing himself, and if JD ain't going anywhere, the next step is for Woody to give him the business, and tell him to fix the issue, and maybe lean on him to possibly make some decisions that he is reluctant to for whatever reason, be it pride, or loyalty, or whatever. 

That may mean a conversation with Saleh, HIS hand picked guy, that HE needs to make changes, and then possibly lean on him to make them. 

So that comes to the coordinators, specifically LaFleur. Where there has most certainly been an issue (the fact that this is remotely debated on here is asinine). 

If Saleh is honest with himself, he let's Lafleur go and course corrects, because its certainly what's in the best interests of the team. 

If Saleh declines to make the changes, then he should be let go immediately. It stinks of nepotism/cronyism and means he cant put ego aside for the bigger picture of the team. Which goes against everything he portrays himself as being. 

How can you on one hand claim to hold people accountable, Mims/Moore etc, then not hold Lafleur accountable? It looks really bad, and I guarantee you that players see that sh*t. 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, T0mShane said:

LaFleur has his warts, but it’s tough to hang Mims, Michael Carter, and Zach directly on him. Mims and Carter are backups who have faded as backups, which happens everywhere. Zach just sucks. The guy that everyone is bow retroactively calling a genius who was going to fix Zach—Greg Knapp—was Jamarcus Russell’s offensive coordinator. Sometimes these guys just can’t play. 

It’s moore too.  And ruckert didn’t play this year when he’s clearly their best blocking TE and the OL deteriorated.  We saw yeboah in there too much who is useless.  How many more offensive draft picks have to suffer before it’s at least partially the OC’s fault?

[The Crusher]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

You do not speak for all Jets fans.  I do want them back.  I think with a mediocre QB they can do some damage.  I also don't think that an owner changing the staff based on what Jets fans want is a recipe for a successful franchise.

So anybody but Zach? That’s fair but personally I’m convinced LaFleur needs a QB a touch above mediocre for his offense  to be consistently effective. Likely as much about his relative inexperience as an OC as it is his apparent inability to change his system to hide a player’s weaknesses.
 

He needs a plug and play guy already developed able to do most everything he is asked. A guy that will allow him to develop his system rather than developing the QB. I would say Jimmy G would be the closest thing to ideal for him based on history in the system. A superstar guy would be nice but not happening. We’ll see. 

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

So anybody but Zach? That’s fair but personally I’m convinced LaFleur needs a QB a touch above mediocre for his offense  to be consistently effective. Likely as much about his relative inexperience as an OC as it is his apparent inability to change his system to hide a player’s weaknesses.
 

He needs a plug and play guy already developed able to do most everything he is asked. A guy that will allow him to develop his system rather than developing the QB. I would say Jimmy G would be the closest thing to ideal for him based on history in the system. A superstar guy would be nice but not happening. We’ll see. 

That’s b/c the ‘system’ is not adaptable to different qbs and skill sets. 

[FactsOnly]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

 

Salad would never allow it

Power hungry fool only wants cronies under him

[Dcat]

Astonished that ppl here want yet another season of our offense trying to fill round holes with square pegs.  Because that's what we are getting with MLF. Guaranteed. 

Fire him. 

[IndianaJet]

12 hours ago, Aussie Jet said:

Makes me wonder who would be saying this to someone like Lombardi. I thought he was a Patriots homer.

Lombardi is full of sh*t.  I listen to him occasionally on VSIN and he has turned into someone who is all about saying the most outrageous things possible, especially when it comes to coaching and GM moves.

This, coming from the guy who drafted Barekvious Mingo.

A few years ago, he swore up and down that the 49ers had traded up in the draft because they loved Mac Jones and he was 1000% going to be the pick.

He's one of the last "insiders" I would trust to get information from.

 

[Barry McCockinner]

4 minutes ago, IndianaJet said:

Lombardi is full of sh*t.  I listen to him occasionally on VSIN and he has turned into someone who is all about saying the most outrageous things possible, especially when it comes to coaching and GM moves.

This, coming from the guy who drafted Barekvious Mingo.

A few years ago, he swore up and down that the 49ers had traded up in the draft because they loved Mac Jones and he was 1000% going to be the pick.

He's one of the last "insiders" I would trust to get information from.

 

Lombardi knew Joe Douglas was the GM hire before anyone else. He has a connection somewhere. He can still be full of it but I wouldn't be so fast to write him off.

[jgb]

31 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Budget doesn't seem to have much to do with it for Woody.  Saleh and his cronies seem like they're compensated quite well.  It's just that Woody and Douglas got duped and the franchise ended up overpaying for a bunch of babysitters, it seems.

I never really thought of Woody as being super cheap.  Just incompetent.  I think he'd go "big game hunting" for a coach if any coach worth a damn wanted to come here from the outset.  Rhule was a top choice here in 2019, after all; he wouldn't have come cheap.

Maybe you are right and we just get the same profile because the others are self-selecting themselves out.

[nj meadowlands]

I could be totally off base here, but if there were going to be firings, wouldn't they have happened by now?

[Larz]

52 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

LaFleur has his warts, but it’s tough to hang Mims, Michael Carter, and Zach directly on him. Mims and Carter are backups who have faded as backups, which happens everywhere. Zach just sucks. The guy that everyone is bow retroactively calling a genius who was going to fix Zach—Greg Knapp—was Jamarcus Russell’s offensive coordinator. Sometimes these guys just can’t play. 

Just Jamarcus ? Nobody else ?

[bitonti]

12 hours ago, Gen X Jet said:

Empaths are not good leaders nor do they get results from men. 

Pete Carroll is in the playoffs after beating the Jets 

Hard disagree 

[Larz]

2 minutes ago, nj meadowlands said:

I could be totally off base here, but if there were going to be firings, wouldn't they have happened by now?

Waiting for exit interview TPS reports

[bitonti]

52 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

It’s moore too.  And ruckert didn’t play this year when he’s clearly their best blocking TE and the OL deteriorated.  We saw yeboah in there too much who is useless.  How many more offensive draft picks have to suffer before it’s at least partially the OC’s fault?

Ruckert was hurt like half the year 

If the Jets fire MLF it's because they still believe in Zach Wilson. This is lifestyles of the rich and famous. 

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

Pete Carroll is in the playoffs after beating the Jets 

Hard disagree 

Yea, that’s an awful take.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

Ruckert was hurt like half the year 

If the Jets fire MLF it's because they still believe in Zach Wilson. This is lifestyles of the rich and famous. 

And because he's just not very good.

[bitonti]

Just now, Integrity28 said:

Yea, that’s an awful take.

Rex Ryan "players coach" is the all time franchise leader in playoff wins 

I can do this all day 

The idea that the coach needs to be a mean alpha is some Joe Rogan level bull crap. 

These are millionaires and grown men it's not like college where you can scream at them all day 

[bitonti]

Just now, Zachtomims47 said:

And because he's just not very good.

MLF is as good as the qb. He's a good nfl coach the problem is that the Jets don't have an NFL caliber starting qb on the roster 

If MLF gets fired it's because they are scapegoating him for the Zach failure 

[section314]

38 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Lombardi knew Joe Douglas was the GM hire before anyone else. He has a connection somewhere. He can still be full of it but I wouldn't be so fast to write him off.

Probably speaking to @football guy and @Mogglez. But then, they actually have sources.?

[Flea Flicking Frank]

2 hours ago, slats said:

A couple more offensive linemen who can stay on the field and a competent QB, and this team would’ve easily just went from 4-12 to the playoffs. They didn’t have either. I’m gonna give all my second year guys a chance here. By all means, bring in another veteran voice -in the form of coach and QB, please- but I’m gonna hold onto LaFluer. It’s not just that he’s Saleh’s bud, but also that he’s running a very thoroughly, time-tested system that he prefers on offense. 
 
Jet fans love complaining about the same ol’ Jets and then beg them to do same ol’ Jets things year after year. Cleaning any portion of the house would be a big mistake, imho. Breece Hall was looking like a lock for OROY before he got hurt. Garrett Wilson was in the conversation, setting rookie receiving records for the team with that OL and those QBs. They have some pieces in place, and the fundamentals of this offense in place (which took over a year to implement, I might add). This constant churn is a big reason why the team constantly sucks, but then we ask for more of it and have a weak, impulsive owner who’s more than happy to cater to the mob of the day. It’s a great combination for success. 

There is a lot of chicken and egg going on here.

The line is clearly a major problem, but it seems as though everyone, including the coaching staff has concluded the line is not an excuse for the QB play, or any QB's, who have all been bad outside of a few games.

So my question is, why is the line an excuse for MLF, but not for ZW or MW?

My issues with Saleh and MLF go way deeper than just the injuries. I think Saleh has shown really poor leadership over his tenure here, and MLF seems to be highly predictable with his playcalling.

 

[greenwichjetfan]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

You do not speak for all Jets fans.  I do want them back.  I think with a mediocre QB they can do some damage.  I also don't think that an owner changing the staff based on what Jets fans want is a recipe for a successful franchise.

100% on all of this. Getting Breece and AVT back, along with even a middle of the pack QB, and this team is in the playoffs next year. This team was supposed to win 4 games this year. They won 7. Of course the season went off the rails with big time key injuries and QBs starting games that wouldn't even be the best backups on a lot of teams.

Regardless of what happens or whether or not I agree with it, the one thing that is absolutely unacceptable is the owner making the call on anyone. 

[Biggs]

6 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Woody is right here 

Nope.

[Mogglez]

2 minutes ago, section314 said:

Probably speaking to @football guy and @Mogglez. But then, they actually have sources.?

I wouldn’t feed Lombardi a cockroach, let alone information.

[Jetsfan80]

41 minutes ago, jgb said:

Maybe you are right and we just get the same profile because the others are self-selecting themselves out.

I think that's most of it.  Woody is used to paying 2-3 coaches at once and Macc handed out guaranteed money like a drunken sailor, so I just don't think he's unwilling to spend.  I could be wrong, I just don't know if we have firm evidence of that.

[Jetsfan80]

15 minutes ago, nj meadowlands said:

I could be totally off base here, but if there were going to be firings, wouldn't they have happened by now?

For sure.  Only reason that would be delayed is if a team was locked on to a Payton/Harbaugh and once they get some confirmation someone like that wants the job they fire the current staff.  

But we're not that lucky.

[Jetsfan80]

9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Rex Ryan "players coach" is the all time franchise leader in playoff wins 

I can do this all day 

The idea that the coach needs to be a mean alpha is some Joe Rogan level bull crap. 

These are millionaires and grown men it's not like college where you can scream at them all day 

I agree with what you're saying in principle but Rex Ryan is a terrible example.  Rex's personality had a lot to do with why the Jets fell apart the final 3 weeks of 2011 and the subsequent years in his tenure. 

It's also a big reason why he failed miserably in Buffalo and why he couldn't so much as get a job interview for the U of Miami job when it opened up (and he publicly expressed interest).  Even that dunce Herm Edwards got a P5 collegiate job but Rex can't.

[bitonti]

Alot of people are going to be fired because Zach wilson was a bad pick. If the Jets fire MLF it's just the start 

There's no scenario where you miss at 2 overall and become a great offense. It's up to that qb to raise the level of everyone else's game 

It's not on the OC to teach the franchise qb where to put his feet when he throws. Or go to the playoffs with Mike white 

This is all pure scapegoating because jd made the worst QB room in the league 

[Biggs]

Woody firing Lefleur is like Defense wins Championship firing Lefleur.  Woody is the owner but he doesn't know squat about football.  He's a fan and worse he makes his money off the fans so he panders to them by pandering to his inner fannyness.

It can be both the right thing to fire Lefleur and the wrong thing for it to come from Woody.   Personally I have no issue with Joe D firing Saleh and the entire staff.   I have a big issue with Woody firing Lefleur or Joe D firing Lefleur if Saleh wants him on his staff and Joe D doesn't want to fire Saleh.

If these guys can't run the football organization on the field replace the HC and his staff.  If you think Saleh is the guy it's his call.  

Saleh made a ton of mistakes this year.  Overall he did a reasonably mediocre to bad job.  It was miles better than what he did last year which was outright awful.  He was a first time hire and he was hired for a long run and rebuild.   You either still believe in him and hope he makes a leap in year 3 or Joe D fires him right now.  I'm on the fence but I like him personally and would be inclined to see if he can take the next leap.

Woody is a proven imbecile.  He's not getting better as an owner or evaluator.  He peaked and has plateaued at buffoon.  Hopefully Saleh hasn't peaked yet and if he wants to keep Lefluer he hasn't either.  

 

[bitonti]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I agree with what you're saying in principle but Rex Ryan is a terrible example.  Rex's personality had a lot to do with why the Jets fell apart the final 3 weeks of 2011 and the subsequent years in his tenure. 

It's also a big reason why he failed miserably in Buffalo and why he couldn't so much as get a job interview for the U of Miami job when it opened up (and he publicly expressed interest).  Even that dunce Herm Edwards got a P5 collegiate job but Rex can't.

If we're pointing at former Jets coaches, Pete Carroll is the living example of how a player's coach can have a great career 

Rex Ryan is a problematic example but heck even Bowles won the super bowl as a DC 

It's not about the coaches it's about the players. Franchise qb is the most important ingredient. Rex really did not have one. Ever. Pete had Russell Wilson and now rehabbed Geno. 

Who does Saleh have? Zach wilson the worst draft pick in team history? It's almost unfair to evaluate the coaches considering how bad jd screwed up at qb 

[playtowinthegame]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

Alot of people are going to be fired because Zach wilson was a bad pick. If the Jets fire MLF it's just the start 

There's no scenario where you miss at 2 overall and become a great offense. It's up to that qb to raise the level of everyone else's game 

It's not on the OC to teach the franchise qb where to put his feet when he throws. Or go to the playoffs with Mike white 

This is all pure scapegoating because jd made the worst QB room in the league 

 

No matter how bad Zach Wilson is/was you have to admit Mike Lafleur is not good at his job. He's predictable and when you're predicable you get beat by defensive coordinators in this league. It's why we didn't score a touchdown in the last three games. Mike Lafleur wasn't ready to be an offensive coordinator imho. Saleh hired his best man's brother and it backfired.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Alot of people are going to be fired because Zach wilson was a bad pick. If the Jets fire MLF it's just the start 

There's no scenario where you miss at 2 overall and become a great offense. It's up to that qb to raise the level of everyone else's game 

It's not on the OC to teach the franchise qb where to put his feet when he throws. Or go to the playoffs with Mike white 

This is all pure scapegoating because jd made the worst QB room in the league 

your stance is that coaching doesnt matter at all, and the players either can play or cant play, and development, teaching, system and playcalling mean nothing. Either good robots or bad robots. Its a reallly, really bad take

[Larz]

58 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Lombardi knew Joe Douglas was the GM hire before anyone else. He has a connection somewhere. He can still be full of it but I wouldn't be so fast to write him off.

You mean when Douglas was the only guy interviewing and had no other interviews lined up?