Lafleur has NOT been fired!! (merged title references unsubstantiated claim. please refrain from hilarious parody threads)

[Augustiniak]

Just now, football guy said:

They clearly put him into a leadership position that he wasn't ready for. At the same time I don't think you can just hoard coaches over potential. There's a fine line... they hired Knapp to serve as that crutch for MLF and Rob Calabrese. He passed, and Saleh totally misjudged the situation... I really like Saleh but that right there was complete and utter incompetence; almost a fire-able offense considering how much they had invested in developing their QBs. 

I'm waiting to hear more myself, but I haven't gotten the sense MLF would be fired. The only way I figured he would get fired was if they had someone else in mind who is proven and wants the job, OR if they identified someone with a ton of experience and credibility (i.e. Gary Kubiak) who wants to work with someone else. 

Isn’t the problem here that they have to decide first and foremost what they think will become of wilson before they consider how they want to revise their staff?  There has to be sincere internal debate about whether wilson can become even a mike white at this point.  So if wilson isn’t likely to be in the jets’ plans beyond 2023, the system they run next year seems largely irrelevant.  They can bring in any qb they like and tailor a system around that guy.  

[Matt39]

8 minutes ago, football guy said:

It's actually very common. Titles are often just titles, what's more important is understanding the responsibilities. Some of the big names: 

• Kubiak "babysat" Kevin Stefanski in 2019
• Mike Shula was brought in this year to "babysit" Ken Dorsey and Joe Brady in Buffalo. 
• Mark Duffner was hired to "babysit" Lou Anarumo in Cincinnati. 
• Jim Schwartz was hired to do the same for Shane Bowen. 
• Dom Capers with Ejiro Evero. 
• John Morton for Ben Johnson and the young Lions offensive staff. 

It happens a lot 

Still feels like a half measure. 

[56mehl56]

27 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

pretty sure we will know by 3

 

 

 

Our Oc is gonna be Buddy Revel ? . Great  movie btw 

[Scott Dierking]

19 minutes ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

Hope MLF goes out guns blazing and publicly sh!ts on Zach.

THAT would certainly guarantee a future job.

[Adoni Beast]

44 minutes ago, Bugg said:

We keep pretending some wonderful coach is going to come up with some fantastic plan to make Zach Wilson even an adequate NFL starter.

It's not happening. 

It's totally f___ed.

Jets need to cut bait and sign a vet QB. Everything else is unimportant. 

I’m not holding out hope that this Senior Offensive Assistant is going to turn Zack Wilson around. 

The offense including coaching needs a new voice and organizational direction and process, even with a Garoppolo or Carr, etc.

[bonkertons]

7 minutes ago, Hex said:

Offense looked better but they couldn't score. That's an OC problem

I mean we're talking about a 1 and 1/2 game sample, tbh.  Also they did score, tbf - against Minny at least.  Almost scored again and probably would have had Berrios caught the ball.  Even if you want to say that it was a bad throw, that's not really on MLF...he drew up the play that worked.  I distinctly remember another golden opportunity only for White to sail one over Wilson's head.  

 

The Bills game was the Bills game.  Defensive battle, White cracked some ribs.  It is what it is. 

 

I don't think you'll find anyone who would argue that MLF doesn't need to improve, but he's a young coach and the signs are there.  I think all his "supporters" (aka people who are OK with giving him one more year) are saying is that scapegoating him for the way this season went is a bit unfair, considering what he had to work with.  

[Hex]

16 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

And if they want to fire him thats fine, but it shouldn't blind anyone from the biggest issue, which was the guy they picked 2nd overall.

Oh he is the biggest issue, but that also doesn't change the fact that MLF needs to go. Zach Wilson is an entirely different issue.

[56mehl56]

18 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

Of course we can, my point was IMO with a good QB LaFleur could work out as OC.  

With a good QB , we all could work out as OC . Its the making of lemonade out of lemons that MLF is struggling with.  Its proven the type of system he runs can work , its adapting and adjusting it to fit the current players where he's being stubborn as a mule. 

[slimjasi]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’s difficult to express how much the analytics community hates Zach Wilson. 
 

 

That’s nice, but the problem for MLF is that there are 8 non Zach Wilson games on tape from this year.  In 4 of the 8, we failed to score a single offensive TD. 

[JETS SB]

1 hour ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

I can take or leave LaFleur. The issue was Zach Wilson.

So was Zach to blame for us not scoring a TD vs Seattle or Miami?

[JETS SB]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

That’s nice, but the problem for MLF is that there are 8 non Zach Wilson games on tape from this year.  In 4 of the 8, we failed to score a single offensive TD. 

And we failed to score a TD in our last 2 games without Zach. 

[jetsons]

34 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

pretty sure we will know by 3

 

 

 

Classic movie ??

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

That’s nice, but the problem for MLF is that there are 8 non Zach Wilson games on tape from this year.  In 4 of the 8, we failed to score a single offensive TD. 

That’s why mike white getting hurt ruined the entire plan saleh and MLF had to spin the narrative.  They also brainwashed the players into believing MW was the savior, look at those stupid shirts they wore.  Saleh and MLF alienated ZW right then and there from the team’s ongoing culture, which frankly was disgusting.  

The fact that mike white was better than Zach wilson does not absolve the offensive coordinator.  

[JETS SB]

1 hour ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Why would you only focus on a small sample size? Mike White had 5 broken ribs and the final game they were playing a 37 year old QB and 3 new offensive lineman.

Sad thing is, Joe Flacco looked better in that Miami game than Zach Wilson did in his final start of the year.

And the team had 5 of their 7 wins with Zach as QB. 

[ScarletKnight89]

1 minute ago, JETS SB said:

So was Zach to blame for us not scoring a TD vs Seattle or Miami?

The offense clearly looked better from the Chicago game through the Bills game until Mike White broke 5 ribs. Yes, he came back against Seattle and played bad. The final game was a 37 year old QB playing in a meaningless game with 3 backups playing on the O-Line. 

We can look at that small sample size of 2 games if you want, or we can look at the larger sample size Zach Wilson had. 22 starts. Most of which was garbage. And I hate to say that cause I want it to work out with Zach Wilson. But the kid has been historically bad. That needs to be taken into account. The offense looked better when he wasn't playing.

[JETS SB]

5 minutes ago, Hex said:

Oh he is the biggest issue, but that also doesn't change the fact that MLF needs to go. Zach Wilson is an entirely different issue.

How many games did we win without Zach as QB? 

[jgb]

12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’ve said forever that Woody needs to hire an old hand to oversee football ops. The org chart has always been a fluid mess here. They need a football czar who can come down and bitchsmack anyone wearing a bunny costume.

[The Crusher]

20 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Saleh could really use this kind of mentorship, too. 

Agreed... Door flies open

 

 

[PepPep]

4 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

With a good QB , we all could work out as OC . Its the making of lemonade out of lemons that MLF is struggling with.  Its proven the type of system he runs can work , its adapting and adjusting it to fit the current players where he's being stubborn as a mule. 

Pretty much. 

I would add that his lack of experience has really shown his warts in times of trouble- losing Hall, White and o-linemen to injury for example, Moore becoming a malcontent, etc., etc. 

You have this young QB who the Jet brass want to give every possible opportunity to but who is playing horrendous football. You have no viable veteran backup. And then you run into this slew of injuries to your only decent QB starter and multiple O-linemen.

Its a tough position to be in. Maybe a more experienced OC would find a way. But it seems like MLF really struggled getting the best out of his players. 

[JETS SB]

1 minute ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

The offense clearly looked better from the Chicago game through the Bills game until Mike White broke 5 ribs. Yes, he came back against Seattle and played bad. The final game was a 37 year old QB playing in a meaningless game with 3 backups playing on the O-Line. 

We can look at that small sample size of 2 games if you want, or we can look at the larger sample size Zach Wilson had. 22 starts. Most of which was garbage. And I hate to say that cause I want it to work out with Zach Wilson. But the kid has been historically bad. That needs to be taken into account. The offense looked better when he wasn't playing.

Barely.  To me this isn’t about Zach. He will be replaced and likely be a backup. It’s about an OC that is God awful at adjusting to his personnel and scoring TDs. Other than the Chicago game, how many TDS did Mike White have ? How many TDS did we have in the last 6 games of the season? Only 2 of which were Zach games ?

[56mehl56]

10 minutes ago, bonkertons said:

I mean we're talking about a 1 and 1/2 game sample, tbh.  Also they did score, tbf - against Minny at least.  Almost scored again and probably would have had Berrios caught the ball.  Even if you want to say that it was a bad throw, that's not really on MLF...he drew up the play that worked.  I distinctly remember another golden opportunity only for White to sail one over Wilson's head.  

 

The Bills game was the Bills game.  Defensive battle, White cracked some ribs.  It is what it is. 

 

I don't think you'll find anyone who would argue that MLF doesn't need to improve, but he's a young coach and the signs are there.  I think all his "supporters" (aka people who are OK with giving him one more year) are saying is that scapegoating him for the way this season went is a bit unfair, considering what he had to work with.  

But to be fair if ZW played and he put up points against the Vikings but still lost, the narrative would have been well the Vikes D sucks , same thing if he started and beat the Bears. 

[Charlie Brown]

6 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

That’s why mike white getting hurt ruined the entire plan saleh and MLF had to spin the narrative.  They also brainwashed the players into believing MW was the savior, look at those stupid shirts they wore.  Saleh and MLF alienated ZW right then and there from the team’s ongoing culture, which frankly was disgusting.  

The fact that mike white was better than Zach wilson does not absolve the offensive coordinator.  

This is clearly a stain on Saleh IMO, even if Mike White is better than Zach Wilson and is going to be the FQB in the future that was NOT the way to handle it!

[jgb]

7 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Agreed... Door flies open

 

 

Looks-match for Woody’s Jets. Not everyone can bed Scarlett Johansson.

[56mehl56]

7 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Agreed... Door flies open

 

 

Jared from Subway ?. 

[Beaver]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Yeah Monken isn’t coming back to the NFL if it’s not a HC role. Big college HCs get paid a mint and are local royalty.

True about local royalty but NIL and the transfer portal have drastically changed the College landscape and most coaches currently hate it.  There is no downtime for the coaches anymore.  Used to be there would be dead periods between recruiting High School kids.  Now, not only are college coaches now having to recruit High School kids, but kids from other colleges and their own kids to stay.     

[prime21]

This team could have won 10 games but at the same time they could have also just had 4 or 5 wins.  Its been a crazy year with many positives but unfortunately much uncertainties.  

Everyone is looking for a fall guy to blame.  I'm not a MLF fan but firing him just because someone has to go is not the answer.  If the coach stands by him that let them fly another year and reassess at the end of 2023 season.  

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

This is clearly a stain on Saleh IMO, even if Mike White is better than Zach Wilson and is going to be the FQB in the future that was NOT the way to handle it!

The message the coaches wanted everyone to believe was that it was all Wilson’s fault.  And fast forwarding to today, that was the best way for saleh to justify keeping MLF.  This was in the works for months. 

[football guy]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Still feels like a half measure. 

No doubt, but what's baffling is that they had this role planned for Greg Knapp, he passes away, they have a clunky training camp, bring in Matt Cavanaugh, then due to Cavanaugh spending more time monitoring the coaches they bring in Beck to work with Zach and the rest of the QBs in terms of communicating/teaching the offense and maintaining the fundamental work, then shift Beck and Cavanaugh into more advisory roles and let Calabrese communicate their messages to the QBs, and after all that happened Saleh concluded "let's just role with MLF and Calabrese next year." Now he finds himself in a difficult position because firing everyone is not a proven method of success either (although I don't see how it could be worse at this point). 

As much as I think MLF and Calabrese were not ready and deserve a ton of blame, I put a lot of the blame on Saleh. He wanted to avoid making waves by hiring another guy and for whatever reason trusted that MLF and Calabrese were ready when they clearly were not. He totally misjudged the situation and wanted to avoid the optics that they were coddling Zach and/or anyone on the staff. Now he finds himself in a spot where there are serious questions at the most critical position in sports with no one who has the credibility or experience to answer them, which is evoking some panic (both inside and outside the organization). So I think Saleh views himself as largely to blame for this, and rationalizes things in a sense that *if* they had Knapp, a lot of the issues on offense would not have transpired. Still, he has to balance that with the decision whether hiring a senior level guy will actually solve any of the issues that did transpire. Essentially, he doesn't want to scapegoat MLF "just because", but he needs a plan or an antidote to improve administration-wide confidence that retaining him can work. A complicated situation. 

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

But to be fair if ZW played and he put up points against the Vikings but still lost, the narrative would have been well the Vikes D sucks , same thing if he started and beat the Bears. 

I would take a competent performance against a sucky D at this point. I mean damn the guy has shown squat that could allow me to self-soothe with a week of hope that we just witnessed a baby step.

[Smashmouth]

My sources tell me Michael Clemons delivered the news to LaFleur

[CanadienJetsFan]

So, is he or isn't he canned?

[bonkertons]

3 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

But to be fair if ZW played and he put up points against the Vikings but still lost, the narrative would have been well the Vikes D sucks , same thing if he started and beat the Bears. 

wait......is this the Zach thread?  I thought we were talking about MLF?

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Beaver said:

True about local royalty but NIL and the transfer portal have drastically changed the College landscape and most coaches currently hate it.  There is no downtime for the coaches anymore.  Used to be there would be dead periods between recruiting High School kids.  Now, not only are college coaches now having to recruit High School kids, but kids from other colleges and their own kids to stay.     

Fair points. I also just realized Monkin is an OC not a HC (i don’t follow college ball). So forget what I said.

[Integrity28]

2 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

conflicting reports 

Normally, I’d assume this wax the case. I wouldn’t put it past Woody have it leaked, just to get a sense of the approval ratings.

[JoJoTownsell1]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

The message the coaches wanted everyone to believe was that it was all Wilson’s fault.  And fast forwarding to today, that was the best way for saleh to justify keeping MLF.  This was in the works for months. 

If Wilson was just a horrible pick, then Lafleur doesn't deserve to be fired. 

If Wilson was a good pick, then Lafleur should have been fired yesterday. 

Unfortunately, it's tough to know the truth. The fact that a 27 year old Mike White had a couple of good games and some awful games doesn't help in deciphering the situation.