Jump to content

You get what you ask for


Be_a_Jet

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Be_a_Jet said:

The group who wanted MLF gone are in two places. 
 

1) Delusion-ville, USA. Where you think the Jets are going to get Reich or Kubiak or anyone good

2) Shock. Shock at the list of candidates being floated around. Like “Wuh really that’s it “ 

Welcome to reality. Whoever comes now has what is a 1 year playoff mandate  - likely to be fired if they don’t make it. Unknown QB at the helm. And has to implement the new system with either the same current staff or their own guys who also have to get acclimated. 

Anyone who would be worth being an OC would be way more inclined to go with a new HC rather than a 3rd year HC on his way out. 
 

the problem is and has always been the QB. The offense will depend on who we get as QB. 

If Saleh gets fired next year for missing the playoffs next year that’s fine - deserved - but they just slashed his tires. Organization is lame and can’t make the hard decisions - firing people is easy, anyone can be upset and fire people. 

 

I wanted LaFleur to come back, several weeks ago I thought it would have been crazy to fire him.

The thing is to bring him back you would have to cut his responsibilities. Bring in a senior coach. So that is kind of the case for firing him.

The stretch run was so bad, the firing is certainly reasonable.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, August said:

Woody pretty much pulled rank. Let the regime make these decisions and it was quite clear that this was not the case. 

Quite clear? What's your evidence or reasoning?

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, August said:

Saleh wanting to bring in someone to work with MLF as opposed to firing him. 

He then also said that he spent multiple days talking with MLF and they finally both agreed to part ways. He probably said that and then after discussion changed his mind.

  • Doh! 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Hex said:

He then also said that he spent multiple days talking with MLF and they finally both agreed to part ways. He probably said that and then after discussion changed his mind.

Read between the lines. They're not going to come out and explicitly say that Woody overrided his coach (because it’s a bad look and it looks like he’s meddling). But it’s clear they felt someone had to be the fall guy and that guy was MLF. It is what it is. Let’s hope whomever we bring in will be an upgrade. 

  • Upvote 1
  • Post of the Week 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Be_a_Jet said:

The group who wanted MLF gone are in two places. 
 

1) Delusion-ville, USA. Where you think the Jets are going to get Reich or Kubiak or anyone good

2) Shock. Shock at the list of candidates being floated around. Like “Wuh really that’s it “ 

 

If they actually fired LaFleur without a replacement lined up ... Woody needs to fire himself and then fire the fired self again.

Edited by Dunnie
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Maxman said:

I wanted LaFleur to come back, several weeks ago I thought it would have been crazy to fire him.

The thing is to bring him back you would have to cut his responsibilities. Bring in a senior coach. So that is kind of the case for firing him.

The stretch run was so bad, the firing is certainly reasonable.

Agree for the most part on these points. But I feel as far as for the team, MLF creativity paired with a senior coach guidance would give us the result we want especially if we are getting a new QB anyway which we most definitely are. 
 

His firing certainly I think is a reasonable discussion but in good organizations this is where cooler heads prevail and ownership doesn’t meddle. 
 

If we get better next year it’s going to be because we have an actual QB that doesn’t handicap the OC and an OL that is bottom of the league in run blocking. 

It’s a shame really because I’m certain we will go with some washed recycled OC now. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Be_a_Jet said:

The group who wanted MLF gone are in two places. 
 

1) Delusion-ville, USA. Where you think the Jets are going to get Reich or Kubiak or anyone good

2) Shock. Shock at the list of candidates being floated around. Like “Wuh really that’s it “ 

Welcome to reality. Whoever comes now has what is a 1 year playoff mandate  - likely to be fired if they don’t make it. Unknown QB at the helm. And has to implement the new system with either the same current staff or their own guys who also have to get acclimated. 

Anyone who would be worth being an OC would be way more inclined to go with a new HC rather than a 3rd year HC on his way out. 
 

the problem is and has always been the QB. The offense will depend on who we get as QB. 

If Saleh gets fired next year for missing the playoffs next year that’s fine - deserved - but they just slashed his tires. Organization is lame and can’t make the hard decisions - firing people is easy, anyone can be upset and fire people. 

 

Whoever comes here is likely to be the HC by the bye week.   It’s a fabulous opportunity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, JetPotato said:

You've only got half of the story correct.

Yes. We're not in a good position to hire an experienced coordinator/offensive staff.

But LaFleur absolutely needed to go. The real problem is that so does Saleh. Not next year. Now.

LaFleur has a spot in this league. It does not appear though that the amount of responsibility this role presented was a good fit for him. His upside is scheme. He struggled in play-calling, but anyone would with this squad, and anyone would with his little amount of experience. To me, though, he's clearly not a strong communicator or leader of men. I'm sure the player exit interviews were a disaster for him. I believe Saleh knew he had to go, and indicated as such in the past week or two.

But where he failed most importantly was the lack of a coherent development plan for Zach. And that's on Saleh as much, if not moreso. That's his job. Development a strategic plan, a huge percentage of which is surrounding the #2 overall pick, a very young and inexperienced QB that the entire franchise was leaning on, with the tools to grow. Zach failed for sure, but so did his coaching staff. 

Woody can fix this mess that he's in now, one way, and one way only.

Saleh has to go. Nice guy, like what he's done with the defense, but the 2 years of babying Zach and the lack of foresight to provide him a cache of EXPERIENCED resources to learn from and lean on is inexcusable. He may succeed somewhere someday. I dont think you get past this mistake here though.

So then the search for a PROVEN staff begins. Woodster is going to have to pay a tax. He'll have to outspend everyone to do it. It's the only avenue to righting this ship. Otherwise, like you said, 2023 is a lame duck season and they search begins again in one year. Rip the band aid off now. Not likely, I suppose, but it's what should happen. Maybe we'll get surprised. 

Counter argument: You cannot develop an Turd into a Diamond.

  • Upvote 2
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Be_a_Jet said:

The group who wanted MLF gone are in two places. 
 

1) Delusion-ville, USA. Where you think the Jets are going to get Reich or Kubiak or anyone good

2) Shock. Shock at the list of candidates being floated around. Like “Wuh really that’s it “ 

Welcome to reality. Whoever comes now has what is a 1 year playoff mandate  - likely to be fired if they don’t make it. Unknown QB at the helm. And has to implement the new system with either the same current staff or their own guys who also have to get acclimated. 

Anyone who would be worth being an OC would be way more inclined to go with a new HC rather than a 3rd year HC on his way out. 
 

the problem is and has always been the QB. The offense will depend on who we get as QB. 

If Saleh gets fired next year for missing the playoffs next year that’s fine - deserved - but they just slashed his tires. Organization is lame and can’t make the hard decisions - firing people is easy, anyone can be upset and fire people. 

 

There might be a lot of truth in what you write but I disagree for now.  I’m willing to give them the chance to fill the role before concluding anything.

The one thing I believe with conviction is that LaFleur was a BIG part of the problem.  Not the biggest (QB), but a big part.  There can be multiple problems, not black and white this or that.  

Keeping him would have been doubling down on a mistake that the stubborn and too a fault loyal Saleh made at the start.  This gives the offense and the offensive players a fresh start.

MLF lost the locker room.  That same QB you referenced went backwards.  So did other players.

Let’s see what happens next.

 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Counter argument: You cannot develop an Turd into a Diamond.

What part of my post does that counter? 

We're on the same page that Zach is a turd. That doesn't excuse the lack of a development plan. 

Zach was a necessary risk. Like all QBs in the NFL, you don't really know what you get until they play. It's a different game and there's no reliable science of projecting. If there was, Tom Brady wouldn't have been a 6th round pick and Patrick Mahomes would have been chosen #1 overall. Top picks bust and Mr. Irrelevant can look like a superstar in this league.

The bottom line is for me that NO young quarterback would be able to reach their maximum potential with the weak support system that Saleh and LaFleur had put in place.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

Whoever comes here is likely to be the HC by the bye week.   It’s a fabulous opportunity.

To get fired in January? Raiders interim coach Rich Bisaccia even got his team into the playoffs last season and got fired anyway. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

What part of my post does that counter? 

This part:  "But where he failed most importantly was the lack of a coherent development plan for Zach."

The greatest development plan ever would not have developed a turd into a diamond.

Also, we don;t know how good or bad their development plan was.  Because you cannot develop a turd.

49 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

We're on the same page that Zach is a turd. That doesn't excuse the lack of a development plan. 

You presume there was no plan.  I would posit we fans aren't in a position to judge that just because we see the outcome.

49 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

Zach was a necessary risk.

I don't agree.  I didn't agree before we drafted him.  He was the wrong pick, the wrong prospect, with the wrong resume. 

We had other options in that draft.

49 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

The bottom line is for me that NO young quarterback would be able to reach their maximum potential with the weak support system that Saleh and LaFleur had put in place.

I would counterargue that no support system could have saved the turd of a prospect that is/was Zach Wilson.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, Warfish said:

This part:  "But where he failed most importantly was the lack of a coherent development plan for Zach."

The greatest development plan ever would not have developed a turd into a diamond.

Also, we don;t know how good or bad their development plan was.  Because you cannot develop a turd.

You presume there was no plan.  I would posit we fans aren't in a position to judge that just because we see the outcome.

I don't agree.  I didn't agree before we drafted him.  He was the wrong pick, the wrong prospect, with the wrong resume. 

We had other options in that draft.

I would counterargue that no support system could have saved the turd of a prospect that is/was Zach Wilson.

I think we agree more than you think here.

We know there was not a good plan. The plan was one guy, and that guy tragically was lost. He wasn't replaced. My contention is there should have been more than that one guy to begin with. Saleh admitted as such. All the talk in the past days of adding an experienced mentor to the mix for MLF confirms it even further. There was not a significant role on that offensive staff that was filled by an experienced, proven veteran. They were all newbs learning on the job. That's fine if Peyton Manning is your QB. Not for a rookie QB, whether your name is Zach Wilson or Dan Marino. You're set up to fail.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

I think we agree more than you think here.

I never thought otherwise my friend. :) 

8 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

We know there was not a good plan. The plan was one guy, and that guy tragically was lost. He wasn't replaced. My contention is there should have been more than that one guy to begin with. Saleh admitted as such. All the talk in the past days of adding an experienced mentor to the mix for MLF confirms it even further. There was not a significant role on that offensive staff that was filled by an experienced, proven veteran. They were all newbs learning on the job. That's fine if Peyton Manning is your QB. Not for a rookie QB, whether your name is Zach Wilson or Dan Marino. You're set up to fail.

What you say may in fact all be true.

It wouldn't have made any meaningful difference for Zach Wilson.  In my opinion, of course.

I don't agree a good QB would have been "set up to fail" in the same way.

But a better management of QB going forward wouldn't be bad, we should always be improving our processes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

The Jets haven’t scored an offensive TD in their last 31 possessions!

31!

Something had to change.

E5FBF0F5-5DD9-417D-B7A8-858A777F9FA2.thumb.jpeg.f4b692b1ea9314a10967c8bac558afcf.jpeg

Lafleur truthers be like...

"Dem yardz tho!"

jerk off ed edd and eddy GIF

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Be_a_Jet said:

The group who wanted MLF gone are in two places. 
 

1) Delusion-ville, USA. Where you think the Jets are going to get Reich or Kubiak or anyone good

2) Shock. Shock at the list of candidates being floated around. Like “Wuh really that’s it “ 

Welcome to reality. Whoever comes now has what is a 1 year playoff mandate  - likely to be fired if they don’t make it. Unknown QB at the helm. And has to implement the new system with either the same current staff or their own guys who also have to get acclimated. 

Anyone who would be worth being an OC would be way more inclined to go with a new HC rather than a 3rd year HC on his way out. 
 

the problem is and has always been the QB. The offense will depend on who we get as QB. 

If Saleh gets fired next year for missing the playoffs next year that’s fine - deserved - but they just slashed his tires. Organization is lame and can’t make the hard decisions - firing people is easy, anyone can be upset and fire people. 

 

I couldn't disagree more with you!  

Let me give you an analogy:  You are a woman with 2 small children, who is in an abusive relationship with her husband.  He beats her up, but makes a great living and brings home good money.  If you leave him, he said he will stop all payments to her, and they will lose their house, and she will not have enough money to pay the bills.  He said he would rather quit his job and go to jail, than to pay her anything.

What do you do?  Do you stay in the abusive relationship, or do you leave immediately?

The answer:  You leave immediately!  

If you can't figure that out, then I understand why you want to keep LeFleur.  He is dragging this organization down, and right now, it doesn't matter who we replace him with.  It matters that we stop the bleeding.  After that, we look to improve the situation.  One thing at a time.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Alka said:

I couldn't disagree more with you!  

Let me give you an analogy:  You are a woman with 2 small children, who is in an abusive relationship with her husband.  He beats her up, but makes a great living and brings home good money.  If you leave him, he said he will stop all payments to her, and they will lose their house, and she will not have enough money to pay the bills.  He said he would rather quit his job and go to jail, than to pay her anything.

What do you do?  Do you stay in the abusive relationship, or do you leave immediately?

The answer:  You leave immediately!  

If you can't figure that out, then I understand why you want to keep LeFleur.  He is dragging this organization down, and right now, it doesn't matter who we replace him with.  It matters that we stop the bleeding.  After that, we look to improve the situation.  One thing at a time.

The analogy is moot because I don’t think MLF is a bad OC, or in your analogy “abusive”.  So we are just in different places on the foundational premise 
 

either way though, I’m not crazy. I understand that there is cause for deliberation on MLF. But I also think if we had the same exact season except reversed..people would feel differently - it’s because we ended so poorly that he’s lost his job. 
 

MLF could not adjust to Zach and that was his downfall. Mike White moved the ball well under center and I think MLFs offense works - problem is Zach’s the QB and the OL went into shambles. He lost his job for not being great - not for being bad - in my opinion. 
 

TBH Saleh/Douglas failed him by not bringing someone else in after Greg Knapp passed away. It’s how it goes. The problem is compounded by the fact that the OC job isn’t a good job to take here , it’s a 1 year try out and the prospective OC won’t even know who his QB is  or who his OLineman are going to be  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, SackExchangeNYJ said:

This is that brief moment in time where Jets fans cannot figure out whether to complain about Woody meddling with the team, or whether to praise him for doing what they screamed needed to be done. It is entirely possible the universe will implode from this.

stephen hawking smile GIF

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Be_a_Jet said:

The analogy is moot because I don’t think MLF is a bad OC, or in your analogy “abusive”.  So we are just in different places on the foundational premise 
 

either way though, I’m not crazy. I understand that there is cause for deliberation on MLF. But I also think if we had the same exact season except reversed..people would feel differently - it’s because we ended so poorly that he’s lost his job. 
 

MLF could not adjust to Zach and that was his downfall. Mike White moved the ball well under center and I think MLFs offense works - problem is Zach’s the QB and the OL went into shambles. He lost his job for not being great - not for being bad - in my opinion. 
 

TBH Saleh/Douglas failed him by not bringing someone else in after Greg Knapp passed away. It’s how it goes. The problem is compounded by the fact that the OC job isn’t a good job to take here , it’s a 1 year try out and the prospective OC won’t even know who his QB is  or who his OLineman are going to be  

 

Look, there are elements of truth in what you say.  First, this statistic:  8 touchdowns in the last 8 games.  Wow!  Second, MLF might be a good coach, but he has proven to be an inflexible coach.  As the OC, you have to tailor the plays around the talents of the players you have.  MLF had his vision, and Zach needed to fit into what MLF wanted, not the other way around.  IMHO, it was MLF's inflexibility that got him fired.  Zach was better on the move, and while there were plays designed for that, MLF tried to force his philosophy on Zach, and when Zach was unable to comply, the team went to sh*t.  

Who's fault is that?  Well, it falls on both of them.  Ultimately, the correct decision was made to jettison MLF.  

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, Alka said:

Look, there are elements of truth in what you say.  First, this statistic:  8 touchdowns in the last 8 games.  Wow!  Second, MLF might be a good coach, but he has proven to be an inflexible coach.  As the OC, you have to tailor the plays around the talents of the players you have.  MLF had his vision, and Zach needed to fit into what MLF wanted, not the other way around.  IMHO, it was MLF's inflexibility that got him fired.  Zach was better on the move, and while there were plays designed for that, MLF tried to force his philosophy on Zach, and when Zach was unable to comply, the team went to sh*t.  

Whose fault is that?  Well, it falls on both of them.  Ultimately, the correct decision was made to jettison MLF.  

 Man I Love a civil  discussion lol. I hear you on a lot of it. I think it could have gone either way but like you said, ultimately his inability to work with Zach’s traits is likely why he is leaving. 
 

ya know, when the report came out that they mutually agreed to part ways I thought it was BS and it was to save MLF but I’m starting to think there is some truth to it. I don’t think MLF wanted to work with Zach and I think Saleh/Douglas saw he didn’t know how to help Zach on top of other things of course. 
 

man I hate Zach but what’s done is done. Time to look forward, just hope it’s not Bevell that comes in. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

It would not surprise me if that's not EXACTLY what they plan on doing.  I see a Minshew/Brissett upgrade from Flacco, with the idea that Zach competes to start and slides in at some point if he's QB 2.  I'd be surprised if JD goes big for Carr or Jimmy G unless there is a taker for Zach at some silly level.  

i agree. and i think they will say he beats them out in TC and is starter in week 1. this is all Woodys doing. JD and Saleh didnt want to do this but Woody wants one more year of Zach and thats why they dont have a playoff mandate. 

they cant suck and win 4 games but if they win 7 they all come back in 2024. thats the deal Woody made with them to give Zach another chance. and Saleh will have 2 years left and JD one by next year so he has to pay them anyway. 

and as an FU icing on the cake MLF will end up as a Passing game coordinator somewhere and Jimmy G will sign there and say a big reason was reuniting with MLF since they had some success in SF together. then watch this board lose there minds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...