GangGreened Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 If Lamar is “Super Bowl caliber” what is Jimmy G then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 15 minutes ago, BigRy56 said: We really have people arguing against getting Lamar? He’s a lock top 10, Superbowl caliber quarterback. We have trotted out Zach Wilson for 2 years straight. What are we doing here guys? He's not top 10 on almost all stats. How do we know he's SB caliber? 1-3 in playoffs, with one game above 200 pass yds. 3 TDs 5 INTs 5 fumbles. Superbowl caliber? Not so sure. I can't ignore the humongous injury risk that he presents. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 4 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said: “Lamar can’t throw” He's got a great arm but he's not a true pocket passer (and the WR was wide open in that tweet, btw). When his legs break down then he's not worth what it'll cost to acquire and sign him. The Ravens got his 5 best years. We'd be paying more for the past than his future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhg1084 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 3 minutes ago, Green DNA said: So don't get Jimmy G because he is always injured but do get Lamar even though he is always injured. What am I missing here? If my choices are btwn Lamar and Jimmy G I’ll take my chances with Lamar. Give me a 3 year window to win a superbowl with this team 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhg1084 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said: He's got a great arm but he's not a true pocket passer (and the WR was wide open in that tweet, btw). When his legs break down then he's not worth what it'll cost to acquire and sign him. The Ravens got his 5 best years. We'd be paying more for the past than his future. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 2 minutes ago, Dcat said: He's not top 10 on almost all stats. How do we know he's SB caliber? 1-3 in playoffs, with one game above 200 pass yds. 3 TDs 5 INTs 5 fumbles. Superbowl caliber? Not so sure. I can't ignore the humongous injury risk that he presents. He's far too much of a health risk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBeardedSavage Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 4 minutes ago, Dcat said: He's not top 10 on almost all stats. How do we know he's SB caliber? 1-3 in playoffs, with one game above 200 pass yds. 3 TDs 5 INTs 5 fumbles. Superbowl caliber? Not so sure. I can't ignore the humongous injury risk that he presents. I agree because the injury risk + the cost (trade compensation/contract). But I think the hate on Lamar as a quarterback is overblown. The guy never had a good receiver and Greg Roman simply does not operate a good offense. I'd love to see Lamar run a little less and throw it around to quality receivers. And part of me would love to see him do it in NY... ...but to give up 2-3 first rounders and $250 million to see it? I'd rather get Rodgers or Carr for far less. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammybighead Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Can someone explain the timing/logistics with regards to Lamar? LV/Carr needs to be settled by 2/15, 3 days after superbowl, correct? Franchise tag window opens 2/21. I guess theoretically, GMs can start calling the Ravens about Lamar now and try to work out parameters of a trade. Then on 2/21, the ravens would put non-exclusive tag on Lamar and tell him they're going to trade him. Then Lamar would have to begin negotiations with the prospective trade partner and hammer out a contract. Assuming he actually works out a contract (which seems impossible since he's asking for $250M fully gauranteed) then he would be traded and Ravens would get 2x first (or whatever trade comp was worked out beforehand). All this seems highly risky to wait for and everything would have to fall just right, not to mention the Jets would have to outbid half a dozen other teams. In the meantime, if you wait on Lamar, you most likely missed out on Carr. Is my rudimentary understanding of the situation correct? Am I missing anything? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Just now, Rhg1084 said: He's breaking down health-wise. And when he can't run like we're used to seeing then how are you going to feel about trading a fortune for him? TB12 is a MUCH BETTER option. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green DNA Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 minute ago, Rhg1084 said: If my choices are btwn Lamar and Jimmy G I’ll take my chances with Lamar. Give me a 3 year window to win a superbowl with this team He turned down $50m per year in September. How much do you pay him for his one career playoff win without hurting the rest of the team? Obviously the Ravens are getting tired of all of the winning that Lamar has brought them. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggs Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 2 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said: If my choices are btwn Lamar and Jimmy G I’ll take my chances with Lamar. Give me a 3 year window to win a superbowl with this team What makes you think either one wants to play for Saleh after Lefleur told him to pound salt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhg1084 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Just now, TuscanyTile2 said: He's breaking down health-wise. And when he can't run like we're used to seeing then how are you going to feel about trading a fortune for him? TB12 is a MUCH BETTER option. Even he loses some of his 4.2 speed as he gets older he will still be able to scramble and run. It’s not like he’s gonna turn into the statue of Mike White over night. Again, a risk I’d be willing to take. And the Jets will be all in to win next year it’s a move I see them doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreened Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Why doesn’t LJ have an agent? Is it really true he’s too cheap to pay for one? Do any other players of notoriety do this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlito1171 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 hour ago, Smashmouth said: If you want to pick the outlier season of Cam Newton and his MVP year and how I had to listen to all the crap on this forum on just how great he was when I told you all he would break down you can go that route but no SB was won . If you're gonna use this as an example at least be factual.....Cam is washed because TJ Watt cracked his shoulder with his helmet...had nothing to do with his legs....that type of injury could have happened to any pocket passer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhg1084 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 5 minutes ago, Green DNA said: He turned down $50m per year in September. How much do you pay him for his one career playoff win without hurting the rest of the team? Obviously the Ravens are getting tired of all of the winning that Lamar has brought them. Ravens about to be a poverty franchise once they lose Lamar 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlito1171 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 6 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: He's breaking down health-wise. And when he can't run like we're used to seeing then how are you going to feel about trading a fortune for him? TB12 is a MUCH BETTER option. A 46 year old statue of QB that is showing signs of diminished skill is a better option? This is where we are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Ghost Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 23 minutes ago, GangGreened said: Who are your top 7 AFC QBs? and how many playoff games has Lamar Jackson won? I have no issue with your ranking of AFC QBs. I was reacting to the Sanchez comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesumtenor Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 2 minutes ago, Smashmouth said: You do realize Lamar Jackson is now having major problems with his knees which is about 90 % of his game running the football and when he's forced to throw he fails miserably ? What is this infatuation with a god damn QB who cant throw when he's forced too? you do realize he did not play in the playoff game yesterday because he knew he would have to throw the football and be further exposed and a terrible passing QB right ? Lamar made the smart move and stayed off the field because he wants to get paid and I promise you whomever pays him will really be paying the price when they destroy their football team, You do realize the more you drag out tropes built on ignorance the more willfully stupid you look… Daniel Jones and Josh Allen both had nearly the same number carries (Allen slightly more; Jones slightly less) as Lamar and they all had roughly the same yardage…yet you won’t tell the same lies about them; instead you’d say their running was some brilliant stroke of their football genius or some other BS like that…because “everybody knows black quarterbacks aren’t cerebral and have to rely on their athleticism…” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlito1171 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Someone go ahead and point out the critical injuries he’s had that’s needed surgery so far? Where’s the ligament tears? Broken bones? Like I said before I see an argument for both sides but some of the stuff on the anti-Lamar side is completely overblown 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesumtenor Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 10 minutes ago, GangGreened said: Why doesn’t LJ have an agent? Is it really true he’s too cheap to pay for one? Do any other players of notoriety do this? Roquan Smith just negotiated a 100 million dollar deal without an agent…with the Ravens… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreened Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 3 minutes ago, Awesumtenor said: Roquan Smith just negotiated a 100 million dollar deal without an agent…with the Ravens… Interesting. I guess Lamar really wants more than Watson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 12 minutes ago, carlito1171 said: A 46 year old statue of QB that is showing signs of diminished skill is a better option? This is where we are? Diminished skill? Despite having a "bad season" (for him) in a year where he had personal distractions, he put up numbers that might favorably compare to Derek Carr's best season. And he can afford to be a statue because he gets the ball out faster than almost anyone. (Not to mention that bringing him in would free us up to draft a bunch of OL in the draft). Plus, he gets all the roughing the passer calls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlito1171 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 I hope the same people who don't want Lamar aren't the same people who want to sign Daniel Jones.... oh my the irony if that's the case ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peebag Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 16 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said: Ravens about to be a poverty franchise once they lose Lamar They can franchise him twice similiar to what the Redskins did w/ Cousins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnysd Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 8 hours ago, usanyj said: Exactly… people putting down pro bowl and mvp qbs with dumb excuses. there is no undefeated qb in the playoffs out there. It’s a nonsense excuse. What is dumb about the guy not being able to stay healthy and his performance diminishing as the season goes on. He is NOT the QB that won an MVP and even if he was teams are better at defending him. He would kill this franchise. It is the same as thinking Bell was going to be what he was for Pittsburgh. AND we can just look at Cam to see what happens when the hits start to add up. They fall off a cliff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsons Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 15 minutes ago, Awesumtenor said: Roquan Smith just negotiated a 100 million dollar deal without an agent…with the Ravens… I guess they feel he’s worth it… speaks Volumes of how they feel about lamar. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Just now, johnnysd said: What is dumb about the guy not being able to stay healthy and his performance diminishing as the season goes on. He is NOT the QB that won an MVP and even if he was teams are better at defending him. He would kill this franchise. It is the same as thinking Bell was going to be what he was for Pittsburgh. AND we can just look at Cam to see what happens when the hits start to add up. They fall off a cliff. You pay a guy for future production, not past glory. There's no way to know the future but my best guess is that the Ravens got the best years out of Lamar and they're trying to sell early (or really at the right time). If there were some way to guarantee Lamar's health then I'd be all for acquiring him (though if that were the case then the Ravens wouldn't trade him). 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhg1084 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 9 minutes ago, carlito1171 said: I hope the same people who don't want Lamar aren't the same people who want to sign Daniel Jones.... oh my the irony if that's the case ? Jets would be lucky to have either of those guys 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesumtenor Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 17 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said: I agree because the injury risk + the cost (trade compensation/contract). But I think the hate on Lamar as a quarterback is overblown. The guy never had a good receiver and Greg Roman simply does not operate a good offense. I'd love to see Lamar run a little less and throw it around to quality receivers. And part of me would love to see him do it in NY... ...but to give up 2-3 first rounders and $250 million to see it? I'd rather get Rodgers or Carr for far less. If the Ravens put the franchise tag on him they are destroying their salary cap a la the Redskins with Cousins. The 45 million dollars they will have to pay him is an immediate hit and will prevent them from bringing in other players they need in positions where they need to improve. The contract they offered him was a joke with only 30% guaranteed money which is contrary to the trend in the league for QB contracts…and before someone says only “elite quarterbacks”, Kirk Cousins got the first big contract with all of the money guaranteed despite no rings and no MVPs…and that contract brought the Vikings a wild card loss to Daniel Jones and the Giants… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointman Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 10 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said: Is that real??? He. Wants. To be. A JET!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlito1171 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said: Diminished skill? Despite having a "bad season" (for him) in a year where he had personal distractions, he put up numbers that might favorably compare to Derek Carr's best season. Point is fair but, if we're comparing seasons....Brady threw for close to 200 less yards on 100 more attempts....if you give most NFL level QBs over 700 passing attempts they should be able to throw for over 4,000 yards lol Brady just posted his lowest yards per attempt(6.2), lowest QBR(52.5), TD% (3.4), lowest passer rating since 2018. Also to be completely fair , if you go to advanced stats he just posted one of his best on target %, and lowest bad throw %s. So an argument can be made both ways. I just have a hard time believing that at 46 he's a better option given that father time is undefeated and his numbers could plummet even more, and guaranteed that they will the longer he keeps playing https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesumtenor Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 15 minutes ago, GangGreened said: Interesting. I guess Lamar really wants more than Watson He just wants more guaranteed money than the Ravens have offered. He’s never said or insinuated that he wants to be the highest paid QB in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsons Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 4 minutes ago, Awesumtenor said: If the Ravens put the franchise tag on him they are destroying their salary cap a la the Redskins with Cousins. The 45 million dollars they will have to pay him is an immediate hit and will prevent them from bringing in other players they need in positions where they need to improve. The contract they offered him was a joke with only 30% guaranteed money which is contrary to the trend in the league for QB contracts…and before someone says only “elite quarterbacks”, Kirk Cousins got the first big contract with all of the money guaranteed despite no rings and no MVPs…and that contract brought the Vikings a wild card loss to Daniel Jones and the Giants… Just because someone was dumb enough to offer such an asinine contract doesn’t mean you have to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 hour ago, bla bla bla said: Ne never negotiated his contract, he was told this is the contract you play o to be a rookie in the NFL. There is no doubt he is drastically underpaid and him sitting out to protect his most valuable asset, himself, was a move I won't hold against him. This is a different conversation if not for the rookie contract You and I think very differently then. If in fact he is skipping the playoff game out of fiscal self-interest, I want nothing to do with that kind of player. Of course I want nothing to do with him anyway, but I’d want even less that before. Guy who sells out his team, in the playoffs, is a dick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnysd Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 15 minutes ago, carlito1171 said: Someone go ahead and point out the critical injuries he’s had that’s needed surgery so far? Where’s the ligament tears? Broken bones? Like I said before I see an argument for both sides but some of the stuff on the anti-Lamar side is completely overblown Seriously? A sprain IS a tear or a really bad stretching that can often heal itself. A completely torn ACL is still a sprain. For this recent injury it is a PCL Sprain Grade 2 CLASSIFICATIONS OF PCL INJURIES Like any other ligament of the body, PCL sprains are classified according to a traditional grading system: Grade 1-This is a mild injury that causes only microscopic tears in the ligament. While these small tears can bend the PCL out of shape, they do not significantly affect the knee’s ability to bear weight. Grade 2 (moderate)-The PCL is partially torn and the knee becomes unstable. At this level expect the knee to give out periodically while standing and walking. Grade 3 (severe)-The PCL is completely torn or is separated at its end from the bone that it normally anchors. At this point the knee is very unstable and cannot bear your body weight. It usually takes a tremendous force to cause such an injury, so a grade 3 sprain is often accompanied by damage to the other ligaments of the knee. And there have been reports that his injury is actually a Grade 3 tear. The Patella was not listed in terms of severity but that was likely a slight tear as well. Also, the PedaL ankle sprain is ALSO a tear. There are three grades for ankle sprains determined by the amount of force. Grade 1: Stretching or slight tearing of the ligament with mild tenderness, swelling and stiffness. The ankle feels stable and it is usually possible to walk with minimal pain. Grade 2: A more severe sprain, but incomplete tear with moderate pain, swelling and bruising. Although it feels somewhat stable, the damaged areas are tender to the touch and walking is painful. Grade 3: This is a complete tear of the affected ligament(s) with severe swelling and bruising. The ankle is unstable and walking is likely not possible because the ankle gives out and there is intense pain. So including the back, he has actually torn his ligaments already 5 fuggin times. And people expect this guy to miracuously regain his MVP form and stay healthy when he has proven he can do neither. Whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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