Lamar Jackson talk is completely triggering me

[VJphillyfan]

4x 1st round picks plus a $160 million contract for a running qb with a ton of miles on him who is already breaking down

 

Pass.

[undertow]

3 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

The options are not Lamar or ZW

Well unless the other options are Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, or Burrow there's really no debate....contrary to popular belief among the Jets fanbase Derek Carr isn't John Elway.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

12 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

Again, adding Lamar to the Jets puts us as a Super Bowl contender. The Ravens losing Lamar puts them as a bottom 10 team in the league. It’s about time Jets go all in a try to win a superbowl

Lets unpack this a bit, can we?

 

So the QB is by far the most important piece, right, and the Ravens have that MVP caliber, in his prime most important piece.  

The Jets are currently a bottom 10 team in the NFL, look at the draft.

So the Jets become a SB team, which the Ravens are not, with Lamar, but the Ravens are not a SB team with Lamar, and see him every day, and don't want to sign him to the deal he wnats, but the Jets should give up multiple high picks AND sign him to the deal he wants?

Then we become a super bowl contender with him, while the Ravens are not??

 

[VJphillyfan]

Just now, undertow said:

Well unless the other options are Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, or Burrow there's really no debate.

How about send GB 2 first round picks for Rodgers instead of 4 first round picks to Baltimore for noodle legs?

[undertow]

Just now, VJphillyfan said:

How about send GB 2 first round picks for Rodgers instead of 4 first round picks to Baltimore for noodle legs?

Sounds good..........if it was 2021.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

dude the high priced Guard is more important than the OC 

believe it or not 

all the players are more important than all the coaches

that's how money works - the free market reflects worth

also If you think the Jets will acquire a Lamar or Aaron rodgers level QB

I'd be happy to take the other side of that bet. 100 dollars to the charity of the winner's choice? 

OK, you have just proven yourself completely unworthy to argue with. if you honestly believe a high priced guard is more valuable to an org than a good OC, you have absolutely zero credibility with me.

Im not bettign on guys who I don't know to be available. If the Ravens believe Lamar is as good as Jets fans do, no way they make him avaialble, you don't make a guy like him available. I also have no idea Rodgers will be available.

You said they wouldnt go after them if they were available, I disagree.

 

[Lith]

9 minutes ago, usanyj said:

Could be a multitude of reasons...Tom Brady was made available, as was brees, peyton manning, brett favre...This is likely over money.  

Don't think those examples are comparable.  Brady, Manning and Favre were all made available after 15 years in the league.  They were not 26 years old.

Brees was made available at 26 like Lamar, but the Chargers had already drafted Rivers to replace Brees.

[JetBlue]

20 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

You are only counting rushing stats. Even when he is passing, he is often running around pre pass, and gets hit a lot when he drops back

Would you take Josh Allen if he were available?  He takes more punishment than any quarterback in football.   Also by the way, the era of the "drop back quarterback" is over.   Every elite quarterback these days can run and often do or at the very least are very mobile.   Lamar is no longer the exception but has almost become the norm.  He also doesn't run nearly as much as he used and is more strategic in choosing when to take off. Also, it seems folks are giving short thrift to his passing ability.  I even someone call him inaccurate and there could be nothing further from the truth.  He is EXTREMELY accurate.   Look I dont think we will pony up what it would take to get him, but folks acting like he is some one trick pony is simply wrong and he has put up some of the best passing stats we seen in many years.   

A better argument would be his post season performance so far in his career.  I am more concerned about that then him being "injury prone" or his running.  

[Rhg1084]

4 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Lets unpack this a bit, can we?

 

So the QB is by far the most important piece, right, and the Ravens have that MVP caliber, in his prime most important piece.  

The Jets are currently a bottom 10 team in the NFL, look at the draft.

So the Jets become a SB team, which the Ravens are not, with Lamar, but the Ravens are not a SB team with Lamar, and see him every day, and don't want to sign him to the deal he wnats, but the Jets should give up multiple high picks AND sign him to the deal he wants?

Then we become a super bowl contender with him, while the Ravens are not??

 

Umm yes. Our defense was ranked 4th in the league, it’s a top defense. Adding Lamar to our team would put the offense probably in top 10. We would have a Super Bowl window of 3 years probably. The Ravens will get blown out this weekend without Lamar playing and would be a bottom 10 team in the league going forward. Jets obviously have a better team than Baltimore minus Lamar 

[VJphillyfan]

2 minutes ago, undertow said:

Sounds good..........if it was 2021.

Oh wait I forgot you are delusional enough to think Rodgers is finished.  Did you see the WRs he had to throw to this year?

[bitonti]

Just now, Flea Flicking Frank said:

OK, you have just proven yourself completely unworthy to argue with. if you honestly believe a high priced guard is more valuable to an org than a good OC, you have absolutely zero credibility with me.

I don't "believe" these things. It's borne out in the respective prices of their labor

why do you believe an OC making 800k is worth more than a guard making 10 million? 

is it just faith? you have no actual facts to back it up

follow the money dude

coaches coach and players play 

Zach Wilson is the most valuable asset on the Jets' roster, according to how much they pay him 

is that player worth what he's paid is a different conversation but we're talking about a QB making 10x what the head coach makes 

if the head coach was more valuable than the QB, wouldn't Saleh be making 30 million and Zach 3? 

You're the one who has to explain why the market is this way. I don't have to defend the reporting of fact 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

2 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Would you take Josh Allen if he were available?  He takes more punishment than any quarterback in football.   Also by the way, the era of the "drop back quarterback" is over.   Every elite quarterback these days can run and often do or at the very least are very mobile.   Lamar is no longer the exception but has almost become the norm.  He also doesn't run nearly as much as he used and is more strategic in choosing when to take off. Also, it seems folks are giving short thrift to his passing ability.  I even someone call him inaccurate and there could be nothing further from the truth.  He is EXTREMELY accurate.   Look I dont think we will pony up what it would take to get him, but folks acting like he is some one trick pony is simply wrong and he has put up some of the best passing stats we seen in many years.   

A better argument would be his post season performance so far in his career.  I am more concerned about that then him being "injury prone" or his running.  

Im most worried if a good org like the Ravens make s a guy like him available. I am not overly concerned about injury, more concerned about his body wearing down and not being the running threat he was, which closes up a lot of his passing opportunities. The post season is a HUGE concern, when you spend that much on a QB, you cant question their post season performance. Its the one reason the Ravens could make him available beyond just his mielage.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

I don't "believe" these things. It's borne out in the respective prices of their labor

why do you believe an OC making 800k is worth more than a guard making 10 million? 

is it just faith? you have no actual facts to back it up

follow the money dude

coaches coach and players play 

Zach Wilson is the most valuable asset on the Jets' roster, according to how much they pay him 

is that player worth what he's paid is a different conversation but we're talking about a QB making 10x what the head coach makes 

if the head coach was more valuable than the QB, wouldn't Saleh be making 30 million and Zach 3? 

You're the one who has to explain why the market is this way. I don't have to defend the reporting of fact 

Your delusional, honestly, delusional. I don't even have the energy to argue with this type of delusion

[carlito1171]

Dude it's just an unsubstantiated rumor...not sure why you're worked up as we've heard plenty of those over the years....

I see arguments on both sides....but lean towards caution because of the injury history

But make no mistake, the minute he's on the roster he's the best QB since Namath and the most electrifying, explosive player in franchise history....you're not getting anywhere in a conference with Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Herbert, and now Lawrence all in their early/mid 20's without a weapon of your own.....

It would be negligence not to do your due diligence if the opportunity presented itself....anything else is childish fanspeak lol 

[bitonti]

Just now, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Your delusional, honestly, delusional. I don't even have the energy to argue with this type of delusion

you aren't arguing you're name calling because you don't have a rational response 

Let's take a regular business. Do the janitors do a valuable job? Yes. Are they as valuable as the CEO? no, and how do we know that? Because of what they are paid 

maybe there are companies where the CEO is incompetent and the janitor is a Matt Damon in Good Will Hunting level genius but that doesn't make Janitors more important than CEOs 

 

[bla bla bla]

57 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

First try for Carr. Then try for Lamar. Then try for Rodgers. Then see whats up with Jimmy G. If still nothing...pray. 

Yea I think Jimmy G will be 2nd on that list because of when FA is but I agree with your timeline

[JoshAllenSZN]

If only Mike McCagnan had listened to Larry David, Lamar would already be a Jet.

[undertow]

2 minutes ago, VJphillyfan said:

Oh wait I forgot you are delusional enough to think Rodgers is finished.  Did you see the WRs he had to throw to this year?

Christian Watson, Lazard, Jones, and DIllon are all pretty good weapons....this is how I know you didn't watch any GB games Rodgers looked disinterested and made bad reads all season....he's toast.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Im most worried if a good org like the Ravens make s a guy like him available. I am not overly concerned about injury, more concerned about his body wearing down and not being the running threat he was, which closes up a lot of his passing opportunities. The post season is a HUGE concern, when you spend that much on a QB, you cant question their post season performance. Its the one reason the Ravens could make him available beyond just his mielage.

Baltimore is pissed because Lamar is representing himself and he wants more guaranteed money than Watson, which no other owner wants to do. Lamar is pissed because the DeCosta has to tell him to his face that he’s not worth Watson money. If Lamar had an agent, the agent would be able to tell Lamar that no other team is offering up that stupid Watson contract, and he should get his ass back to practice. 

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

People talking about getting Lamar Jackson makes me truly angry and physically ill.

There is no possible worse scenario than trading and signing for Lamar Jackson.

What in the hell are people thinking? He makes no sense for the Jets on literally any level. He is the worst possible option

1. He should be disqualified on durability alone. The guy has finished 10 of the last 21 games for Balt. He has ended the last 2 seasons missing 5 plus games. His play style is the most unsustainable of any QB in the NFL. History shows that he WILL completely fall off a cliff and that likely has already happened. Just look at Cam (who was a much better pocket passer) he won an MVP and that fell off the face of the other. He kept getting trotted out there but all the hits add up and he was completely ineffective but people kept expecting him to magically become healthy again. Look at RG3. Even Russell Wilson's issues are related to him just being diminished from all the wear and tear and he was among the best ever at avoiding contact. Lamar does not.

2. Even when he is healthy, the wear and tear builds up in Lamar and he gets less and less effective as the season goes on 

3. He is not a pocket passer throwing mostly to the TE and we do not have Mark Andrews

4. He requires a completely unique offense just for him.  We don't have the coaching or players to support him

5. He will cost AT LEAST 2 first round picks. The Jets cannot afford to give up that draft capital

6. He will cost like $30-40 million against the cap, and the Jets really do not have it without cutting a bunch of players, possibly not re-signing players like Q and Huff 

7. It would trash any possibility of rebuilding the OL

8. Here is maybe the biggest reason. His own team, that has the coach, the coordinator, the players to best support him clearly do not want to sign him long term. So why in the hell would we consider signing him?

To be honest, the only way to handle Lamar is on 1 year contracts because you simply cannot throw away the entire teams future on a possibility that he will somehow stay healthy and regain his form which history has show to not be true at all.

FFS

I like Carr because he's an iron-man out there. (Until we get him that is...  )

[JustInFudge]

Big Zach fan, doesnt want Lamar. 

haha

[Ben Had]

Looks like his starting point for his new contract will be more that DW's fully guaranteed...

He's done more than DW and feels he should be paid more.  I think the Ravens have no choice but to tag him and hope for a trade. 

[Dcat]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Baltimore is pissed because Lamar is representing himself and he wants more guaranteed money than Watson, which no other owner wants to do. Lamar is pissed because the DeCosta has to tell him to his face that he’s not worth Watson money. If Lamar had an agent, the agent would be able to tell Lamar that no other team is offering up that stupid Watson contract, and he should get his ass back to practice. 

In other words, the guy is as dumb as fck.   Just what I want in my QB.  TBH, all he ever does is run and throw it to his TE.  Of course you can try to blame all that on Raven WRs, but I think it's Jackson. 

[Barry McCockinner]

20 minutes ago, undertow said:

I'm not even a Lamar super fan but Jets fans are smoking crack we just watched Zippy WIlson throw the ball into the ground for two years.

Would love to have healthy Lamar behind the center for the jets. I just question how often he'll be healthy. You know who our backup QB is, right?

[JetBlue]

5 minutes ago, undertow said:

Christian Watson, Lazard, Jones, and DIllon are all pretty good weapons....this is how I know you didn't watch any GB games Rodgers looked disinterested and made bad reads all season....he's toast.

Too be far, Watson and fellow rookie Doubs did struggle at times (especially Watson, early on) but they really did come on strong the second half of the season.  Lazard has been solid.   The narrative about their receiver corp really focused on the fact that they were very inexperienced.   

[Barry McCockinner]

So to recap, people aren't worried when Baltimore, a model NFL franchise for 2 decades, makes a former MVP QB who is in his prime available but if the Raiders make their QB available it's a giant red flag.

[carlito1171]

53 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

“Lamar isn’t a pocket passer” ???

"He'S JuSt A rUnNinGbAcK"

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, Dcat said:

In other words, the guy is as dumb as fck.   Just what I want in my QB.  TBH, all he ever does is run and throw it to his TE.  Of course you can try to blame all that on Raven WRs, but I think it's Jackson. 

The football nerds all love Watson and claim he’s a refined passer, etc, but I’ve always thought he was overrated. 

[Dcat]

42 minutes ago, bitonti said:

it's never going to happen so don't worry about it 

Lamar is the premium option 

the JD Jets are shopping in the bargain bin

I was wondering when the song would return to the good ol' 'the Jets are cheap' skit.  Was hoping around the start of free agency as per usual.  So youre a bit early. And with all the other Jetsy things we've got to criticize, you turn back to your favorite take... the one never proven to be true (ever), trite (yawn) and inaccurate.   

1st with Quinnen Williams and now you don't think they will spend on a vet.  OK sure thing Bit.

[bitonti]

3 minutes ago, Dcat said:

I was wondering when the song would return to the good ol' 'the Jets are cheap' skit.  Was hoping around the start of free agency as per usual.  So youre a bit early. And with all the other Jetsy things we've got to criticize, you turn back to your favorite take... the one never proven to be true (ever), trite (yawn) and inaccurate.   

1st with Quinnen Williams and now you don't think they will spend on a vet.  OK sure thing Bit.

Cheap is putting words into my mouth

they'll spend on a vet  - they just won't spend on a star QB 

just like they'll spend on a head coach just not one that's done it before

or just like they'll spend on positional coaches just not good ones

they aren't cheap. That's not what I said. but they do have a set limit and they stick to that budget

they aren't going to bust the budget for Lamar that's pipe dream 

the Jets are going to keep zach (ugh) and make sure that QB1 is someone Zach could somehow dethrone

they want Zach to earn the money he's being paid

too many people think the Jets are content to have Zach as the most expensive backup in football 

 

 

[JustInFudge]

Some fun facts about the Ravens w/ out Lamar:

They are averaging 12.5 pts per game and the most points they've scored in a game, was 17, vs. the Falcons.

When Lamar was playing, they were averaging 25 pts and scored 17pts or less, once.

 

 

[undertow]

2 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Too be far, Watson and fellow rookie Doubs did struggle at times (especially Watson, early on) but they really did come on strong the second half of the season.  Lazard has been solid.   The narrative about their receiver corp really focused on the fact that they were very inexperienced.   

Fair but Rodgers wasn't good this year didn't look like the same guy he's not mobile anymore and he wasn't reading the field well. ...he looks old and tired.

[rex-n-effect]

I don't love bringing him in because I don't believe in the durability or longevity of QBs who love to run. Like most, he had a great but short stint and now injuries from the way he plays are catching up with him. He's on that RG3 path of going to another team that pays a luxury for the hope that he avoids the inevitable injuries. The realistic upside is getting a season or two of Jackson playing through injuries with mediocre performance. He's not worth the premium somebody will likely pay. I don't want it to be this team.

I agree that he would be an upgrade at the position but the cost benefit analysis favors other vet QB options.

[Dcat]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The football nerds all love Watson and claim he’s a refined passer, etc, but I’ve always thought he was overrated. 

We've got hall, Carter, Bam, even Ty....  we don't need our QB to run all the time subjecting himself to more and more injury as Lamar always does.  As everyone can plainly see (except for the ones wearing blindfolds about Lamar) he misses more time each year.  It would be foolish to rely on the assumption that the Lamar injury trend will regress.  The odds are that the opposite will occur.  Pass.

[carlito1171]

46 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

While we’re on the topic, was anyone else surprised at how definitively both Woody and Saleh committed to getting a new QB in to replace Zach? Woody said QB was a “missing piece” and would spend what he had to in order to get a new one in here, and Saleh basically said the same. Pretty striking, imo. I would have figured they’d give him more cover.

Woody has to watch his neighbors play a playoff game this weekend while his team finished on a 6 game skid missing the playoffs largely due to QB play

Woody is going big game hunting this offseason