tfine Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 You just touched on the thing that drives me crazy with this board… the blind spot for Joe Douglas. So many people here like to say things like “we are a QB away from being a Super Bowl contender” and talk about all the great young talent we supposedly have on this team, when in fact our FO is in desperation mode right now. Last year was a disaster. The “development year” of Zach Wilson couldn’t have gone worse, we lost our last 6 games, our OL still stinks, we need to replace our entire Offensive CS, and oh yeah… we need to find a QB. TLDR 3 years into the rebuild, we’re still a last place team, replacing half the CS, have no QB, and need to fix the OL.I mean the OL was bad because of injuries not because of bad drafting. A healthy Becton, AVT, Duane Brown, Fant and Max Mitchell make a huge difference. Plus Breece was injured. These aren’t just cast offs every one of these players are pro bowl level. Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Ghost Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 11 minutes ago, tfine said: I mean the OL was bad because of injuries not because of bad drafting. A healthy Becton, AVT, Duane Brown, Fant and Max Mitchell make a huge difference. Plus Breece was injured. These aren’t just cast offs every one of these players are pro bowl level. Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Are you for real? On what planet are Becton, Mitchell, Fant and Brown (at his age) Pro Bowl level? AVT and Hall played a combined 6 games last year, so let’s hold off a bit on them too, okay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varjet Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 Look at the OL they built in Philadelphia. And SF. JD did not come close to that. Becton was a huge bomb. Statistics have shown that OL in the first round are among the easier picks to get right. What a fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choon328 Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 2 hours ago, football guy said: This is false Not one thing I said is false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choon328 Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 2 hours ago, maury77 said: Jordan Love didn’t have 2 years of Sh!t QB play on tape. Could you imagine the Jets exercising the 5th yr option at $25-$30 million after his first 2 years of play, a 3rd year that would consist of some preseason play and practice? Wilson numbers are historically bad for a 1st round QB. The Panthers picked up Darnolds option, which was crazy, but Darnold was a better QB than Wilson on tape and had way less to work with. Picking that option up proved to be a fail. It's crazy to think any fan or person in the organization would think that's a good idea. And if they do then the Jets are in some serious trouble. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
football guy Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 43 minutes ago, choon328 said: Not one thing I said is false. Option would not be $30 million… go back and learn how rookie options work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playtowinthegame Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 Zach Wilson’s contract details, salary cap impact, and bonuses Having been selected second overall by the Jets, what is Zach Wilson's contract worth, and what impact will he have on the Jets salary cap? The New York Jets made Zach Wilson the second overall selection in the 2021 NFL Draft, but what is his contract worth, and what is the salary cap impact during the contract? Below we will look at the full value of the contract, the salary cap impact throughout the deal, and the Jets’ options with Wilson in the future. Zach Wilson’s contract details and bonuses As with all rookie contracts since the Collective Bargaining Agreement in 2011, the value of Wilson’s deal was assigned based on his second overall draft position. The value of the contract was set at a fully guaranteed $35.1 million on a four-year deal with a fifth-year team option. The fifth-year option is not accounted for in the $35.2 million. Instead, it’s based on Wilson’s performances in his first three years in the league. The specifics of Wilson’s contract include a signing bonus of just under $22.9 million with around $12 million in salary. All of that money is guaranteed, assuming Wilson does nothing that would warrant the contract being voided. What impact does Wilson’s deal have on the Jets’ salary cap? While Wilson will receive around $23.5 million in cash as a rookie, his salary cap number is significantly different. Wilson’s $23 million signing bonus will prorate across the four years of his contract at just over $5.7 million per year. That $5.7 million combines with Wilson’s salary for each year to determine his salary cap number. In 2021, Wilson is projected to count for just under $6.5 million in salary-cap space. That number rises to approximately $8 million in 2022, $9.5 million in 2023, and $11 million in 2024. What options do the Jets have with Wilson’s contract? The structure of rookie contracts somewhat limits the Jets’ options with Wilson. As mentioned above, the deal is fully guaranteed. Therefore, even if the Jets want to release Wilson, they will not save any part of the $35.2 million. The only exception would be if Wilson were to violate the team or league code of conduct. If that were to occur, the team could void the remaining guaranteed money and reclaim some of the signing bonuses. If the Jets decide to move on from Wilson during his contract, the prorated signing bonus will accelerate onto their cap. That would happen in the season they released him or split between the next two seasons if done after June 1. If the Jets cut Wilson ahead of 2022, they would have approximately $29 million in dead money. That would be expected to drop to around $20.5 million in 2023 and $11 million in 2024. When is Wilson eligible for an extension? The Jets and Wilson cannot agree to a contract extension until after Wilson’s third year in the NFL. Therefore, Wilson will be eligible for an extension after the conclusion of the 2023 season. That 2024 offseason will be an intriguing one for Wilson and the 2021 NFL Draft class. Additionally, this is the time that the Jets will have to decide on whether to exercise Wilson’s fifth-year option or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playtowinthegame Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 Release Wilson after June 1st in 2023 his signing bonus cap hit of 20.5 million divided by two years for cap hits of 10.25 million in 2023 and 10.25 million in 2024. Release Wilson after June 1st in 2024 his signing bonus cap hit of 11 million divided by two years for cap hits of 5.5 million in 2024 and 5.5 million in 2025. Do I have this right? Looks like the Jets are married to Wilson until at least after June 1st of 2024. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
football guy Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 7 hours ago, maury77 said: Jordan Love didn’t have 2 years of Sh!t QB play on tape. Steve Young did, and a lot of Niners fans thought the team was stupid for paying him a starter’s salary to sit behind Montana for what amounted to 5 years. Had the team listened to the fans and prioritized what they saw in a handful of games vs. what they saw behind the scenes on the other ~350 days a year, they would’ve went with Steve Bono over Steve Young in 1992. So yes, I stand by what I said. Jordan Love looked awful as a rookie and made some progress in year 2, but still not where the Packers wanted him to be- just because you didn’t see it doesn’t mean the team didn’t have that intel… Their perspective wouldn’t have changed on him even if he were forced into action in his first two years either. The big jump was this past year, and his progress throughout the offseason/regular season is exactly why they feel comfortable picking up his option and moving forward with him as their potential starter this year or next. If the Jets were to similarly see significant progress out of Wilson in the background throughout his 3rd year and determined they view him as worthy of being a starter in 2025 (or at the very least a bridge), picking up his $20 million option will not be prohibitive; that’s what veteran competition/high level backups will be paid by then. Not even close to being controversial. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-met57 Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 2 hours ago, football guy said: Steve Young did, and a lot of Niners fans thought the team was stupid for paying him a starter’s salary to sit behind Montana for what amounted to 5 years. Had the team listened to the fans and prioritized what they saw in a handful of games vs. what they saw behind the scenes on the other ~350 days a year, they would’ve went with Steve Bono over Steve Young in 1992. So yes, I stand by what I said. Jordan Love looked awful as a rookie and made some progress in year 2, but still not where the Packers wanted him to be- just because you didn’t see it doesn’t mean the team didn’t have that intel… Their perspective wouldn’t have changed on him even if he were forced into action in his first two years either. The big jump was this past year, and his progress throughout the offseason/regular season is exactly why they feel comfortable picking up his option and moving forward with him as their potential starter this year or next. If the Jets were to similarly see significant progress out of Wilson in the background throughout his 3rd year and determined they view him as worthy of being a starter in 2025 (or at the very least a bridge), picking up his $20 million option will not be prohibitive; that’s what veteran competition/high level backups will be paid by then. Not even close to being controversial. the question is, can you see enough from a player in the offseason and TC... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maury77 Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 6 hours ago, playtowinthegame said: Zach Wilson’s contract details, salary cap impact, and bonuses Having been selected second overall by the Jets, what is Zach Wilson's contract worth, and what impact will he have on the Jets' salary cap? The New York Jets made Zach Wilson the second overall selection in the 2021 NFL Draft, but what is his contract worth, and what is the salary cap impact during the contract? Below we will look at the full value of the contract, the salary cap impact throughout the deal, and the Jets’ options with Wilson in the future. Zach Wilson’s contract details and bonuses As with all rookie contracts since the Collective Bargaining Agreement in 2011, the value of Wilson’s deal was assigned based on his second overall draft position. The value of the contract was set at a fully guaranteed $35.1 million on a four-year deal with a fifth-year team option. The fifth-year option is not accounted for in the $35.2 million. Instead, it’s based on Wilson’s performances in his first three years in the league. The specifics of Wilson’s contract include a signing bonus of just under $22.9 million with around $12 million in salary. All of that money is guaranteed, assuming Wilson does nothing that would warrant the contract being voided. What impact does Wilson’s deal have on the Jets’ salary cap? While Wilson will receive around $23.5 million in cash as a rookie, his salary cap number is significantly different. Wilson’s $23 million signing bonus will prorate across the four years of his contract at just over $5.7 million per year. That $5.7 million combines with Wilson’s salary for each year to determine his salary cap number. In 2021, Wilson is projected to count for just under $6.5 million in salary-cap space. That number rises to approximately $8 million in 2022, $9.5 million in 2023, and $11 million in 2024. What options do the Jets have with Wilson’s contract? The structure of rookie contracts somewhat limits the Jets’ options with Wilson. As mentioned above, the deal is fully guaranteed. Therefore, even if the Jets want to release Wilson, they will not save any part of the $35.2 million. The only exception would be if Wilson were to violate the team or league code of conduct. If that were to occur, the team could void the remaining guaranteed money and reclaim some of the signing bonuses. If the Jets decide to move on from Wilson during his contract, the prorated signing bonus will accelerate onto their cap. That would happen in the season they released him or split between the next two seasons if done after June 1. If the Jets cut Wilson ahead of 2022, they would have approximately $29 million in dead money. That would be expected to drop to around $20.5 million in 2023 and $11 million in 2024. When is Wilson eligible for an extension? The Jets and Wilson cannot agree to a contract extension until after Wilson’s third year in the NFL. Therefore, Wilson will be eligible for an extension after the conclusion of the 2023 season. That 2024 offseason will be an intriguing one for Wilson and the 2021 NFL Draft class. Additionally, this is the time that the Jets will have to decide on whether to exercise Wilson’s fifth-year option or not. It’s cheaper to keep her (divorce lawyer humor) 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maury77 Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 1 hour ago, k-met57 said: the question is, can you see enough from a player in the offseason and TC... That was my point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
football guy Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 5 hours ago, k-met57 said: the question is, can you see enough from a player in the offseason and TC... I believe you can. You would have to hedge and bring in some form of "QB insurance" in 2025 regardless because you won't know if he can sustain the improvements until he shows it on the field over a long stretch of games. That said, you can absolutely identify improvements from now through OTAs, OTAs through training camp, and training camp through preseason, and regular season preparation to make a decision whether to pick up that option in May 2024. If they don't see the improvements they need to see, I think they would just move on or let him play out the deal 2024. But if they see corrections to his footwork, improved confidence, less anxiety, coupled with strong and consistent performance they will absolutely keep that option in their back pocket 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 3 hours ago, maury77 said: It’s cheaper to keep her (divorce lawyer humor) Did you represent Johnnie Taylor? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwichjetfan Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 7 hours ago, football guy said: Steve Young did, and a lot of Niners fans thought the team was stupid for paying him a starter’s salary to sit behind Montana for what amounted to 5 years. Had the team listened to the fans and prioritized what they saw in a handful of games vs. what they saw behind the scenes on the other ~350 days a year, they would’ve went with Steve Bono over Steve Young in 1992. So yes, I stand by what I said. Jordan Love looked awful as a rookie and made some progress in year 2, but still not where the Packers wanted him to be- just because you didn’t see it doesn’t mean the team didn’t have that intel… Their perspective wouldn’t have changed on him even if he were forced into action in his first two years either. The big jump was this past year, and his progress throughout the offseason/regular season is exactly why they feel comfortable picking up his option and moving forward with him as their potential starter this year or next. If the Jets were to similarly see significant progress out of Wilson in the background throughout his 3rd year and determined they view him as worthy of being a starter in 2025 (or at the very least a bridge), picking up his $20 million option will not be prohibitive; that’s what veteran competition/high level backups will be paid by then. Not even close to being controversial. 1992 was a long time ago. There was no salary cap at that time, and they had one of the greatest owners of all time in DeBartolo who would do anything to win including paying a QB to sit. They had a Mount Rushmore HC, Mount Rushmore QB, and Mount Rushmore WR for Steve to learn from. Their contract situations are also different. Zach is on his rookie deal and the Jets will be forced to make a decision on his 5th year option. Steve went to SF as a FA who the 49ers were happy to pay to keep on the bench for as long as needed. There are also differences in the players themselves. Steve was a bonafide high school and college phenom. He was heavily recruited by multiple colleges and is currently in the college HoF. He was wanted badly by two different leagues, and wound up going to the two worst destinations a QB could go to. Zach on the other hand was meh in high school and was very lightly recruited, was a one year wonder at BYU in a covid year with the 2nd best OL in the country, and wasn't voted team captain. He's also enjoyed way better teams his first two years than Steve did with the USFL or with the Bucs. So, there was significantly more "meat on the bone" in terms of thinking that Steve could be turned around. edit: I should add, I'm a bit of a Steve Young fanboy. We share a hometown, and I graduated from the high school that he spent a lot of his own money on. He was the toast of the NFL during my formative years, and his run through the SB is still one of my favorite childhood memories. Our town went nuts that whole postseason. I think it's a sin and a great tragedy to compare Zach Wilson to Steve Young, and I really hope that our Jets FO aren't making that mistake. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bla bla bla Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 15 hours ago, choon328 said: These are not comparable situations at all They are different but to say they are not comparable at all? I disagree there. Fans have seen far more from Wilson than the fans have seen from Love - that is fair. The 5th year option is only guaranteed for injury though, meaning if Rodgers plays 2 years the Jets would have those seasons to get a read on Zach before playing him in a game. You do run the risk of an older QB in Rodgers getting hurt and being forced to play Zach and risk injury, but Rodgers has played every game for the last 5 years so you may be more inclined to risk that. Entirely possible the Jets know what Zach is before May of 2024 and decline his 5th year option but it's not crazy to think they'd exercise it given the investment 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bla bla bla Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 53 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said: 1992 was a long time ago. There was no salary cap at that time, and they had one of the greatest owners of all time in DeBartolo who would do anything to win including paying a QB to sit. They had a Mount Rushmore HC, Mount Rushmore QB, and Mount Rushmore WR for Steve to learn from. Their contract situations are also different. Zach is on his rookie deal and the Jets will be forced to make a decision on his 5th year option. Steve went to SF as a FA who the 49ers were happy to pay to keep on the bench for as long as needed. There are also differences in the players themselves. Steve was a bonafide high school and college phenom. He was heavily recruited by multiple colleges and is currently in the college HoF. He was wanted badly by two different leagues, and wound up going to the two worst destinations a QB could go to. Zach on the other hand was meh in high school and was very lightly recruited, was a one year wonder at BYU in a covid year with the 2nd best OL in the country, and wasn't voted team captain. He's also enjoyed way better teams his first two years than Steve did with the USFL or with the Bucs. So, there was significantly more "meat on the bone" in terms of thinking that Steve could be turned around. edit: I should add, I'm a bit of a Steve Young fanboy. We share a hometown, and I graduated from the high school that he spent a lot of his own money on. He was the toast of the NFL during my formative years, and his run through the SB is still one of my favorite childhood memories. Our town went nuts that whole postseason. I think it's a sin and a great tragedy to compare Zach Wilson to Steve Young, and I really hope that our Jets FO aren't making that mistake. Just want to make a point on the bolded "wasn't voted a team captain" - All your other points are valid but I think you are unintentionally leaving out some context. BYU has an older than average team because of the 2 year religious missions they go on, the Captains are chosen by veteran status on the team (look at the average age of their captains) - Zach was 19 entering his final season with BYU when captains get chosen, he wasn't going to leapfrog 23 and 24 year olds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwichjetfan Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 6 minutes ago, bla bla bla said: Just want to make a point on the bolded "wasn't voted a team captain" - All your other points are valid but I think you are unintentionally leaving out some context. BYU has an older than average team because of the 2 year religious missions they go on, the Captains are chosen by veteran status on the team (look at the average age of their captains) - Zach was 19 entering his final season with BYU when captains get chosen, he wasn't going to leapfrog 23 and 24 year olds. Ok I wasn’t aware of that regarding the captaincy. However, the age thing was another huge red flag for me going into the draft and I wrote about it a bunch in the draft forum. The team he was playing on was better, smarter, and more experienced than most other teams because of the missions and because of COVID, which led to him being successful that one single year. And then he had the best PR machine in the country, and JD fell for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetPotato Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 29 minutes ago, bla bla bla said: Just want to make a point on the bolded "wasn't voted a team captain" - All your other points are valid but I think you are unintentionally leaving out some context. BYU has an older than average team because of the 2 year religious missions they go on, the Captains are chosen by veteran status on the team (look at the average age of their captains) - Zach was 19 entering his final season with BYU when captains get chosen, he wasn't going to leapfrog 23 and 24 year olds. But getting on top of his elders is what Zach Wilson DOES. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choon328 Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 11 hours ago, football guy said: Option would not be $30 million… go back and learn how rookie options work I actually did. Does $20 million make it better? No. You have everyone fooled, not me. I know where you get your info from and who its from. I figured that out in April 2021 and sent you a DM bc you shared too much detail about the person and I gave you a heads up so you could erase the post. Although, I'm not convinced that you're not the actual person who works for the Jets and are just saying you have a source. Of course I would never say who your source is bc that's beyond dumb. You are def a great asset to the site with the kind of information you or your source is exposed to on a daily basis. But please stop using the goodwill and trust you've gained over the past 21 months to run a tactical PR campaign on behalf of the personnel department on this site. It's disingenuous. There are some people who doubt that you have a source, they shouldn't. You have a well placed source and I'll leave it at that. This fanbase, as crazy as it is, is the most loyal fanbase in the NFL. We are constantly on the edge of our seat trying to find out info from anywhere we can bc we care. You can choose to be a conduit to that info or a front office PR puppet and insult our intelligence. I hope you choose the former. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
football guy Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 59 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said: 1992 was a long time ago. There was no salary cap at that time, and they had one of the greatest owners of all time in DeBartolo who would do anything to win including paying a QB to sit. They had a Mount Rushmore HC, Mount Rushmore QB, and Mount Rushmore WR for Steve to learn from. Their contract situations are also different. Zach is on his rookie deal and the Jets will be forced to make a decision on his 5th year option. Steve went to SF as a FA who the 49ers were happy to pay to keep on the bench for as long as needed. There are also differences in the players themselves. Steve was a bonafide high school and college phenom. He was heavily recruited by multiple colleges and is currently in the college HoF. He was wanted badly by two different leagues, and wound up going to the two worst destinations a QB could go to. Zach on the other hand was meh in high school and was very lightly recruited, was a one year wonder at BYU in a covid year with the 2nd best OL in the country, and wasn't voted team captain. He's also enjoyed way better teams his first two years than Steve did with the USFL or with the Bucs. So, there was significantly more "meat on the bone" in terms of thinking that Steve could be turned around. edit: I should add, I'm a bit of a Steve Young fanboy. We share a hometown, and I graduated from the high school that he spent a lot of his own money on. He was the toast of the NFL during my formative years, and his run through the SB is still one of my favorite childhood memories. Our town went nuts that whole postseason. I think it's a sin and a great tragedy to compare Zach Wilson to Steve Young, and I really hope that our Jets FO aren't making that mistake. Steve Young compares Zach to himself all the time lol. Also, I'm not challenging your fandom of Steve Young, but I think you have your facts incorrect... Steve Young has said that his recruitment came down to UNC and BYU. He always planned to go to BYU but UNC went above and beyond to sell him. He was a fantastic runner in college but not much of a passer. When he got to BYU by no means was he as special as you're making him out to be. BYU even considered making him a DB. He wasn't very good until his final year, when he exploded and became a house hold name. Pretty sure he was never voted captain at BYU either. As far as situations, the USFL/Tampa Bay situation definitely is more chaotic, but Steve Young would also tell you that the QB coaching he received with both teams were among the greatest influences of his career. Either way, the point is not to suggest that Zach is or will be Steve Young. It was merely to point out a situation where a player played poorly in their first 2 years, sat behind an established starter, got paid and eventually got his chance to start. In our day and age its not often you see a player get drafted high and sit for 2-3 years, just as much as its not often to draft a guy high - sit and develop him - then reinsert him into the starting lineup. The Jets recognize Zach has rare talent and he has great work ethic, so the last thing they want to do is to follow the "old fashion way" and exile him the way most teams do. If he goes somewhere else and performs well you have egg in your face... that's why they would rather exhaust all effort to see if they can develop Zach into a good QB rather than let someone else do it. When you invest in a QB early in the draft you're investing in them far past the rookie contract- it's not like drafting a RB where you don't expect to get much out of them in years 5-10. You're hoping the player will be a 10+ year player for you. It's one thing if you're constantly trotting him out there regardless how he looks just hoping he finds it eventually (see David Carr, Alex Smith), another if you have a legitimate plan to develop him in the background without impacting the team's ability to win while also being committed to playing the best players. Idk if it will work, but they're going to treat this year as if its a "clean slate": Year 1, Day 1. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Untouchable Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 Hackett and Rodgers Just do it And get Hackett to bring Marrone as the OL coach/running game coordinator. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post football guy Posted January 24, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted January 24, 2023 1 minute ago, choon328 said: I actually did. Does $20 million make it better? No. You have everyone fooled, not me. I know where you get your info from and who its from. I figured that out in April 2021 and sent you a DM bc you shared too much detail about the person and I gave you a heads up so you could erase the post. Although, I'm not convinced that you're not the actual person who works for the Jets and are just saying you have a source. Of course I would never say who your source is bc that's beyond dumb. You are def a great asset to the site with the kind of information you or your source is exposed to on a daily basis. But please stop using the goodwill and trust you've gained over the past 21 months to run a tactical PR campaign on behalf of the personnel department on this site. It's disingenuous. There are some people who doubt that you have a source, they shouldn't. You have a well placed source and I'll leave it at that. This fanbase, as crazy as it is, is the most loyal fanbase in the NFL. We are constantly on the edge of our seat trying to find out info from anywhere we can bc we care. You can choose to be a conduit to that info or a front office PR puppet and insult our intelligence. I hope you choose the former. $20 million is 33% less than $30 million... a massive difference in cap. Also, Jameis Winston is paid $14 million a year as a player who is in a similar kind of position. Suggesting $20 million in 2025 for a player you project a starter is by no means controversial. As far as your other assertions, please stop with the conspiracy theories. I'm no ones puppet nor will I ever be. That's the biggest joke I've ever read and quite frankly, if I ever told someone who does share info to me that I was posting it on a message board and that other fans challenged me suggesting that I'm some front office surrogate they would laugh in my face. The only place where I've been told not to post is on twitter because of how much traction it can get, but I don't fear any of that in a message board hence why I post on here. For that matter it wouldn't even surprise me if some staffers were on here. I'm simply sharing perspective and context to understand why the Jets do what they do, especially in scenarios where it seems like what they're doing makes no sense. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FactsOnly Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 On 1/22/2023 at 6:03 PM, Mogglez said: Yes. Jets won’t even give him a call Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Mart Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 2 minutes ago, FactsOnly said: Jets won’t even give him a call @football guy said a week ago he is on the Jets list once he's available to interview 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 2 minutes ago, FactsOnly said: Jets won’t even give him a call We will likely hire Hackett which I am not uber excited about to be honest. I get nervous when an OC has his really good years when paired with a HOF QB but has been solidly mediocre otherwise and is coming off a complete failure with Russell Wilson. I just don't feel Saleh is going to want to get out of his Shanahan run first box. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FactsOnly Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 23 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said: I'm definitely with you in that I don't want Hackett. However, it could be to appeal to Aaron Rodgers? Maybe? Hopefully? Grasping at straws? Either way, if we're stuck in a situation where the FO still believes in Zach and wants to bring in a stopgap in the hopes that they leave the door open for Zach to take over, we're ****ed no matter who the OC is. Zach will kill any coach that comes here. That's what bad QBs do. Oh yea like Alex Smith and Steve Young? Nice take Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwichjetfan Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 7 minutes ago, FactsOnly said: Oh yea like Alex Smith and Steve Young? Nice take Ok, that's 2. I got Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell. Who else you got? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trotter Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 12 minutes ago, johnnysd said: We will likely hire Hackett which I am not uber excited about to be honest. I get nervous when an OC has his really good years when paired with a HOF QB but has been solidly mediocre otherwise and is coming off a complete failure with Russell Wilson. I just don't feel Saleh is going to want to get out of his Shanahan run first box. I understand but you would think they would have done it already. maybe they are waiting for someone who’s team is still playing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 20 minutes ago, football guy said: $20 million is 33% less than $30 million... a massive difference in cap. Also, Jameis Winston is paid $14 million a year as a player who is in a similar kind of position. Suggesting $20 million in 2025 for a player you project a starter is by no means controversial. As far as your other assertions, please stop with the conspiracy theories. I'm no ones puppet nor will I ever be. That's the biggest joke I've ever read and quite frankly, if I ever told someone who does share info to me that I was posting it on a message board and that other fans challenged me suggesting that I'm some front office surrogate they would laugh in my face. The only place where I've been told not to post is on twitter because of how much traction it can get, but I don't fear any of that in a message board hence why I post on here. For that matter it wouldn't even surprise me if some staffers were on here. I'm simply sharing perspective and context to understand why the Jets do what they do, especially in scenarios where it seems like what they're doing makes no sense. Just keep on keepin on.?You provide a very valuable element to this site, and we all appreciate it. Gotta think the new OC is coming from Philly . 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeNamathsFurCoat Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 54 minutes ago, Untouchable said: Hackett and Rodgers Just do it And get Hackett to bring Marrone as the OL coach/running game coordinator. Denver hired Hackett thinking Rodgers would follow. Instead they wound up with a washed Russ and missing 1st round picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwichjetfan Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 57 minutes ago, football guy said: Steve Young compares Zach to himself all the time lol. Also, I'm not challenging your fandom of Steve Young, but I think you have your facts incorrect... Steve Young has said that his recruitment came down to UNC and BYU. He always planned to go to BYU but UNC went above and beyond to sell him. He was a fantastic runner in college but not much of a passer. When he got to BYU by no means was he as special as you're making him out to be. BYU even considered making him a DB. He wasn't very good until his final year, when he exploded and became a house hold name. Pretty sure he was never voted captain at BYU either. As far as situations, the USFL/Tampa Bay situation definitely is more chaotic, but Steve Young would also tell you that the QB coaching he received with both teams were among the greatest influences of his career. Either way, the point is not to suggest that Zach is or will be Steve Young. It was merely to point out a situation where a player played poorly in their first 2 years, sat behind an established starter, got paid and eventually got his chance to start. In our day and age its not often you see a player get drafted high and sit for 2-3 years, just as much as its not often to draft a guy high - sit and develop him - then reinsert him into the starting lineup. The Jets recognize Zach has rare talent and he has great work ethic, so the last thing they want to do is to follow the "old fashion way" and exile him the way most teams do. If he goes somewhere else and performs well you have egg in your face... that's why they would rather exhaust all effort to see if they can develop Zach into a good QB rather than let someone else do it. When you invest in a QB early in the draft you're investing in them far past the rookie contract- it's not like drafting a RB where you don't expect to get much out of them in years 5-10. You're hoping the player will be a 10+ year player for you. It's one thing if you're constantly trotting him out there regardless how he looks just hoping he finds it eventually (see David Carr, Alex Smith), another if you have a legitimate plan to develop him in the background without impacting the team's ability to win while also being committed to playing the best players. Idk if it will work, but they're going to treat this year as if its a "clean slate": Year 1, Day 1. Isn't this exactly what kept happening, and why we're having all these discussions about QBs in the first place? Because no matter how much we upgraded the team around him, he kept looking bad, both by the eye test and statistically? According to pfr, he was 30th in passer rating in 2021 and 33rd in 2022. So not only was he worse on a better team, he was also worse than a qualifying backup. Hell, even compared to his Jets peers over the last two years playing for the same coaches and with the same teammates, he was qualitatively and quantitatively worse. And he was the young second overall pick competing with old guys or career backups. Listen, I fully understand all of the context and semantics of a potential FQB on a rookie deal. None of it is new, insider information, or rocket surgery. I'm simply saying that part of JD's job is knowing when to fold. If he is looking at Zach Wilson's mosaic over the last two years, and thinks that Zach deserves more chances to magically become a top 30 NFL QB, then something is very very wrong at 1 Jets Drive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeNamathsFurCoat Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 31 minutes ago, johnnysd said: We will likely hire Hackett which I am not uber excited about to be honest. I get nervous when an OC has his really good years when paired with a HOF QB but has been solidly mediocre otherwise and is coming off a complete failure with Russell Wilson. I just don't feel Saleh is going to want to get out of his Shanahan run first box. Hackett would be a disaster in NY. He didn't call plays in GB. He did call plays in Denver, and it was an abject failure. He couldn't even get plays in on time, and his RZ playcalling and game management were even worse than LaFleur's. It was so bad that the home crowd started chanting down the seconds left on the play clock. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 3 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said: Isn't this exactly what kept happening, and why we're having all these discussions about QBs in the first place? Because no matter how much we upgraded the team around him, he kept looking bad, both by the eye test and statistically? According to pfr, he was 30th in passer rating in 2021 and 33rd in 2022. So not only was he worse on a better team, he was also worse than a qualifying backup. Hell, even compared to his Jets peers over the last two years playing for the same coaches and with the same teammates, he was qualitatively and quantitatively worse. And he was the young second overall pick competing with old guys or career backups. Listen, I fully understand all of the context and semantics of a potential FQB on a rookie deal. None of it is new, insider information, or rocket surgery. I appreciate what you bring to the board so I'm not necessarily saying this to you as much as I'm just saying it and hoping that it actually happens: I'm simply saying, part of JD's job is knowing when to fold. If he is looking at Zach Wilson's mosaic over the last two years, and thinks that Zach deserves more chances to magically become a top 30 NFL QB, then he's more of an issue than Zach is and needs to go. Fair points. I just wonder if any other QB in the league, starter or backup, had to deal with an OC who wouldn’t talk to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwichjetfan Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 3 minutes ago, section314 said: Fair points. I just wonder if any other QB in the league, starter or backup, had to deal with an OC who wouldn’t talk to him. That's fair, but let's peel that onion back a little further because it keeps being brought up. Is the assumption here that the OC - who's livelihood depends on his QBs to execute their offenses - just decided one day that he's not going to talk to the 2nd overall pick? Or could it be that the OC saw Zach struggle to complete screen passes or make the easy simple reads whereas the other QBs on the team had his offense sustaining drives, churning out yards, getting points, and grooming a star WR and star RB? And it created resentment - because he knew that the QB was going to eventually be his downfall? I'm not saying LaFleur was correct in his handling of Zach. But I wasn't there. I don't know if he kept trying but Zach wasn't getting it and just decided to give up, or there was friction between them because of something. I don't know any of it and I"m not going to presume. At the end of the day though, it seems completely illogical to me that the OC would just decide to be a prick to the guy who was chosen to be the face of the franchise, especially when he knew his livelihood depended on it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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