Carl Lawson / JFM?

[hawk]

Were either of them good enough to keep?  Which one if yes?  

If no, Can we replace either or both with homegrown talent?

We are going through willy nilly looking at cap savings, but this is both of our starting Defensive Ends.

I personally didn't see them making a real case to keep.  Obviously if we think we can roll with JJ and Clemons/draftee we can let them walk.  Between the two of them they save around $25 Million.

Lastly, any possible trade value?

 

[Bronx]

Cut Lawson, rework JFM's contract.

[rangerous]

I think Johnson and Clemons started to come on. Lawson was non existent in many games. As for jfm, a couple of bad roughing calls and just didn’t get as much penetration as before. Some of that could be the way salehs system works.

[CSNY]

Lawson hasn’t produced near the pay level he is receiving and that is with Quinnen playing next to him. He’s the one I cut 

[RedBeardedSavage]

I'd keep JFM because he's more versatile positionally, but it's a shame because I do like Lawson's mentality better and feel like he's more max effort.

But the real concern is - is Huff just gone? After the season he had, and with the room that we need to create to presumably pay a quarterback and at least one offensive lineman, I can't imagine keeping Huff on a deal that he'll command.

[pointman]

Lawson supposedly had another procedure later on that we didn't know about. So he wasn't 100% apparently. He still put up good numbers. Rework his contract so we can get the benefits of what should be a better year in 2023 after we basically paid him to rehab his leg in 2021 and get reacquainted with football in 2022. If not, he gone.

 

 

[Rhg1084]

I’d try to keep both of them honestly. The Dline is the strength of this team and Saleh’s rotation proved to be successful. We need the depth 

[hawk]

7 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I'd keep JFM because he's more versatile positionally, but it's a shame because I do like Lawson's mentality better and feel like he's more max effort.

But the real concern is - is Huff just gone? After the season he had, and with the room that we need to create to presumably pay a quarterback and at least one offensive lineman, I can't imagine keeping Huff on a deal that he'll command.

Idk, one role.  Is he an every down player?

[hawk]

5 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

I’d try to keep both of them honestly. The Dline is the strength of this team and Saleh’s rotation proved to be successful. We need the depth 

If JJ and Clemons can fill the bulk, depth will come much cheaper.

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

Cut both and resign huff. JJ, Clemons and huff is good enough. 
 

also say goodbye to berrios and Cory Davis. Draft a WR in rd 2

[Dunnie]

Restructure Lawson and JFM .. neither living up to the billing but definitely good enough to keep.

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[SickJetFan]

I am trying to keep both.  This team needs players they are 1 year away from being the worst defense in league and you are not cutting these starters to become a better defense.  Those people saying to cut Lawson are just nuts.  I am reworking his deal to make it cap friendly same with Mosely BTW... JFM I am not as high on as other 2 but would rather he be on Jets as well.

If by the end of 2023 season players like JJ, Clemons, Huff are demanding more than 10-20% of snaps then you start cutting ties with JFM and Lawson in 2024 provided they are better.

[Larz]

Lawsons cap numbers almost 100% mean he’s gone but he could restructure I guess. JFM likely stays. 

[TuscanyTile2]

3 minutes ago, Larz said:

Lawsons cap numbers almost 100% mean he’s gone but he could restructure I guess. JFM likely stays. 

I heard a rumor (I think on Jake Asman's show) that the Jets like Lawson a lot and I think he said they might try a restructure.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

42 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I heard a rumor (I think on Jake Asman's show) that the Jets like Lawson a lot and I think he said they might try a restructure.

Keep JFM who is an average run defender on the Edge and very good pass rusher on the Inside.

Cut Lawson because he’s a poor run defender and only an average pass rusher at a higher cap value.

Huff moves over to the right side to replace Lawson.  Clemons backs him up.

JJ starts on the left side with JFM alternating on run downs.

[Creepy Lurker]

1 hour ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

Cut both and resign huff. JJ, Clemons and huff is good enough. 
 

also say goodbye to berrios and Cory Davis. Draft a WR in rd 2

Have you learned nothing about this team and WRs drafted in Rd. 2!!?!?!?!?

[UnknownJetFan]

2 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I'd keep JFM because he's more versatile positionally, but it's a shame because I do like Lawson's mentality better and feel like he's more max effort.

But the real concern is - is Huff just gone? After the season he had, and with the room that we need to create to presumably pay a quarterback and at least one offensive lineman, I can't imagine keeping Huff on a deal that he'll command.

Huff is a restricted FA. Jets should tender him at a value of a 2nd round pick and if someone else signs him we will have 2 2nd rounded this year.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, Bronx said:

Cut Lawson, rework JFM's contract.

Why rework JFM's contract? I mean, if he'd take a pay cut I guess sure, but imo there's no sense in backloading him further. Depends if JD can squeeze him, but tbh the best chance of that happening is over the summer, well after the draft when everyone's busted their nut & used up their cap room, and made their DE-DT arrangements for the season; not in March.

Two MAJOR bonehead plays aside, imo he played well this year. They were brutal & it's not like they came on plays when the other team was scoring or getting a 1st down anyway.

• Roughing the passer vs Cincy on 3rd & long in the 1st quarter. Instead of 4th & long punting to us in a 1-point game, it gave Burrow a fresh set of downs. 3 plays later he throws a 56-yard TD pass to Boyd to close out the 1st half up 8 instead of 1. (One of 3 unsportsmanlike conduct penalties from Saleh's PVO brand of discipline). This was considered the least-bad because of the final score, but what would've happened if not for a free TD and momentum shift? We'll never know for sure. 
• Roughing the passer vs NE that erased a pick-6 right before halftime, turning a would-be 17-3 halftime lead into just 10-6, which became a 13-10 deficit after NE opened the 2nd half with a TD drive. Would have been such a momentum shift to erase Wilson's pick with an even worse one the other way for points. Even if I didn't like the call it was ridiculously stupid. JFM clearly saw the ball was out & still left his feet to drill Jones in the back. The first half was freaking over. 
• BTW did the same thing vs Miami the prior season; we tend to shrug at it since we were 2-8 so the season was over anyway, but you tuck this info away.

Unless Saleh just wants him off the team for penalty reasons - and given his playing time, that doesn't look like that's the case - I think they leave his contract alone, as I don't see how he's worth less today than the day he signed that pay raise extension. It doesn't seem like JD has a tremendous amount of leverage here (JFM might do better for himself financially if he's cut), but what do I know, maybe he does.

---

Lawson's not a bad player so much as he isn't anywhere near a $15MM/season difference-maker.

Cutting him is a no-brainer. That decision's that much easier not just because of his bloated contract, but his injury history and with the Jets just drafting 2 DEs in 2022 and both look pretty good so far. Those two, plus Huff, plus JFM capable of lining up outside, plus the need to sign a serious veteran QB makes Lawson an unnecessary luxury. Plus they can still pick up or draft another rotational edge rusher, too, for far less investment.

If JD can somehow pry a future late-rounder off someone's roster, power to him. Could only happen if Lawson might get nearly $15MM from someone with another cap ceiling increase: his new team doesn't have to guarantee multiple seasons to him as a FA, doesn't have to get into a bidding war with anyone else, and the pick they give up is really nonexistent: give up a late pick which they'd get back a year later if they let Lawson hit FA in 2024 (or if they did decide to extend him then they won't care about some random late day 3 pick).

Anyway, the Jets just don't need him. Not when they have 3 young edge rushers and could use the cap room for:

• they're hopefully serious into looking to ante up big for a serious veteran QB;
• probably signing at least one veteran OLman (they have no center and aren't heading into the draft with a hole there); 
• there's every chance/likelihood of extending QW1 after his all-pro season.

Just not seeing the value in paying Lawson $15MM. 

[Beerfish]

Lawson is as good as gone.

JFM?  I know he gets a lot of love around here and from advanced stats and the team seems to love him but he is not a player that I like.

Played worse after he got paid, middling sack totals, does not force fumbles, takes stupid penalties.  He for sure needs to be at DT all the time imo.

[Sperm Edwards]

9 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Lawson is as good as gone.

JFM?  I know he gets a lot of love around here and from advanced stats and the team seems to love him but he is not a player that I like.

Played worse after he got paid, middling sack totals, does not force fumbles, takes stupid penalties.  He for sure needs to be at DT all the time imo.

I don't even disagree with what you're saying about JFM (particularly the penalties; he sure knows how to time them ffs); but unlike Lawson JFM's whole game isn't just rushing the passer and 95% nothing else.

They may like a line with him & QW1 in the middle, and JJII and Clemons on the edges, with Huff chiefly rotating in on obvious passing downs. What I do like about that situation is JFM will be playing for more $ again every season: with no more guaranteed $ left on his contract his remaining 3 years are year-to-year at the team's pleasure.

Put it this way: getting rid of JFM in March, before his 2023 season guarantee kicks in, dramatically increases the chances of the Jets drafting a DT instead of an OT with their 1st round pick. I only thought of that domino effect just now. Bleh.

[32EBoozer]

6 hours ago, UnknownJetFan said:

Huff is a restricted FA. Jets should tender him at a value of a 2nd round pick and if someone else signs him we will have 2 2nd rounded this year.

Finally! Someone mentions Huff being a RFA. Jets control his future. Some have mentioned a 1st rd. tender, but he’s a designated pass rusher taking limited snaps. A 2nd is fine & saves $. With JJ & Clemons coming into year two, that 2nd could be greatly beneficial to securing another starter (Center, S, Edge)

[Joe W. Namath]

Carl Lawson had 7 sacks and 24 pressures this year.  That is the 2nd best season he has ever had.

Not sure what fans thought they were getting with Lawson but he did exactly what he has done in the past.

[Barry McCockinner]

2 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Carl Lawson had 7 sacks and 24 pressures this year.  That is the 2nd best season he has ever had.

Not sure what fans thought they were getting with Lawson but he did exactly what he has done in the past.

There were people acting like this dude was Lawrence Taylor when we signed him. That's the reason people are mad, the expectations were out of whack.

[BCJet]

12 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I heard a rumor (I think on Jake Asman's show) that the Jets like Lawson a lot and I think he said they might try a restructure.

Im not surprised the team likes carl lawson, he has a strong character and work ethic, keeps his thoughts/tweets to himself and seems like a good locker room guy.  The issue is that in the salary cap world, when you draft JJ and have a guy who is overpaid at the same position who also has $15 in cap savings attached to his name, he gets cut.  Its unfortunate but its the smart way to manage the roster.

[Claymation]

12 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I heard a rumor (I think on Jake Asman's show) that the Jets like Lawson a lot and I think he said they might try a restructure.

They'll cut with the intent to resign, they won't restructure.

[frankiepapa]

There were people acting like this dude was Lawrence Taylor when we signed him. That's the reason people are mad, the expectations were out of whack.

And if he had a 2nd surgery before the season and was able to play through it, he should be better after an entire year of healing...

One question, do we know the contract status of Jeff Smith? Definitely assume he'll be back

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[Melly-Mel]

Cut lawson, rework jfm

[More Cowbell]

14 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I'd keep JFM because he's more versatile positionally, but it's a shame because I do like Lawson's mentality better and feel like he's more max effort.

But the real concern is - is Huff just gone? After the season he had, and with the room that we need to create to presumably pay a quarterback and at least one offensive lineman, I can't imagine keeping Huff on a deal that he'll command.

Huff is a one trick pony. He has an amazing get off but if that is neutralized, he isn't going to do much. He is purely a situational player. He isn't going to beat the double teams he would see if he was a full time player

[RedBeardedSavage]

11 hours ago, UnknownJetFan said:

Huff is a restricted FA. Jets should tender him at a value of a 2nd round pick and if someone else signs him we will have 2 2nd rounded this year.

Didn't know that.

I like that plan.

[#27TheDominator]

I think you guys are forgetting that Lawson was their target and I think he does exactly what they want.  You guys want to dump Lawson and JFM and roll with JJ, Clemons and Huff?  Huff is a DPR and as stated and RFA.  I agree with the 2nd round tender.  He might actually get it.  They rotate so much that they cannot roll with just those guys.  They will still have to pick up two new DE that will play the other 50% of the snaps. 

Guys they targeted and love were Lawson, Rankins and Joyner.  The fans (including me) didn't really appreciate them, but I think the way the D worked out this season, I'd give these guys much more slack.  After last year I just thought they were idiots, but I admit I was wrong.  Part of the reason I was willing to let LaFleur stick.  I think they showed flashes and with AVT and Hall the O showed some real life even without a QB.  

[Peteo]

This type of question is tough to answer without knowing the talent coming in that will replace what is going out.  I keep both and let it get settled in training camp.

[Jet Nut]

It’s like all we see is sacks and JFM proves how wrong that is.  
He’s a good player who too many don’t recognize.  Would be a noticeable loss IMO

[OilfieldJet]

1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Carl Lawson had 7 sacks and 24 pressures this year.  That is the 2nd best season he has ever had.

Not sure what fans thought they were getting with Lawson but he did exactly what he has done in the past.

This is spot on - we got exactly who we expected, who the guy has been. Yes, injuries hurt his play time, but overall he performed consistent with his history.

 

Bigger question is if we continue to rotate the DL to the same extent. It's hard to pay players 100% for 60% play time - you will run out of money fast that way.

[Rhg1084]

This was the 4th ranked defense last year. I have a hard time getting rid of two integral parts of that D. If we have to sacrifice one guy cause of salary I’d guess I’d say Mosley. Definitely want to keep JFM and Lawson tho

[bla bla bla]

14 hours ago, Bronx said:

Cut Lawson, rework JFM's contract.

This really is the answer. Lawson saves $15m at a position we happen to have JJ, Clemons, and Huff all kicking it up a gear.

JFM could be the 4th guy in that rotation with the added flexibility of kicking him inside to replace Rankins. JFM is the one you keep, if you can rework the deal then that's gravy.