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Rosenblatt article on offensive collapse: Zach sucked, players preffered Mike White


T0mShane

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  • The JD misjudgments on Mims, A Davis, Moore (Creed Humphrey), Becton, Zach Wilson and others are reason to fire him despite his good work.  The guy who drafted Patrick Mahomes, one of the best draft picks of the last 20 years, was fired.   As outlined above, many of his Eagles picks were also duds, although he did like to pick good Polynesian linemen.   Has he learned from his experience?  He may have.
  • The Saleh coaching time management miscues and failure to build a support system for Wilson (despite what they promised him and his family) are also reason enough to fire him.  Has he learned from his experience?   He may have.
  • The Mahomes, Josh Allen and D Watson draft picks were huge gambles.   Their teams and coaching made them work.  I don’t think Zach Wilson was ever going to work, but we can’t say it definitively because the Jets did such a bad job supporting him.   I actually think the Zach Wilson draft pick was the least of the errors that JD committed.  Unfortunately the Zach Wilson situation is becoming the biggest because of what has gone on the last two years. 
  • We have discussed the MLF hire at length.  It has a bright future, but he was over his head and undersupported.  He has to get his act together.  
  • Unless the Jets sign Lamar Jackson and Roman and decide to duplicate that offense, the better answer to me here is to cut Zach Wilson and hope for an offset, and rebuild for 2024.  The young talent will still be young.  
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35 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Yep, the knives are out for Wilson. 

 

Criticize the player all you want, hate him for all I care, but this is entirely made up story but Schultz. Not surprising considering he has a reputation for making things up/pushing misleading information... just seeing an opportunity to piggyback and "one up" Rosenblatt's story. 

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22 minutes ago, varjet said:
  • The JD misjudgments on Mims, A Davis, Moore (Creed Humphrey), Becton, Zach Wilson and others are reason to fire him despite his good work.  The guy who drafted Patrick Mahomes, one of the best draft picks of the last 20 years, was fired.   As outlined above, many of his Eagles picks were also duds, although he did like to pick good Polynesian linemen.   Has he learned from his experience?  He may have.
  • The Saleh coaching time management miscues and failure to build a support system for Wilson (despite what they promised him and his family) are also reason enough to fire him.  Has he learned from his experience?   He may have.
  • The Mahomes, Josh Allen and D Watson draft picks were huge gambles.   Their teams and coaching made them work.  I don’t think Zach Wilson was ever going to work, but we can’t say it definitively because the Jets did such a bad job supporting him.   I actually think the Zach Wilson draft pick was the least of the errors that JD committed.  Unfortunately the Zach Wilson situation is becoming the biggest because of what has gone on the last two years. 
  • We have discussed the MLF hire at length.  It has a bright future, but he was over his head and undersupported.  He has to get his act together.  
  • Unless the Jets sign Lamar Jackson and Roman and decide to duplicate that offense, the better answer to me here is to cut Zach Wilson and hope for an offset, and rebuild for 2024.  The young talent will still be young.  

Wilson Becton and Mims had zero shot of ever working in the NFL based off of personality alone. Within the first 10 minutes of speaking to these guys they should have been on the do not draft list. Not exactly sure what Douglas does.

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On 1/19/2023 at 9:02 AM, slimjasi said:

The problem is that MLF was historically bad down the stretch, largely without Zach. 

So, while Zach was clearly the biggest weakness on the team and has been the biggest bust of the JD era, MLF did not earn the right to come back. 

The coaching staff performed as poorly as any Jets coaching staff has in my lifetime. 

MLF deserves blame.

Next on the blame list:  Saleh hired his buddy MLF so he deserves even more blame.

Next:  JD hired Saleh so he deserves even more blame than that.  

Finally:  Woody Johnson deserves the most blame for 12 years of incompetence and the constant issue of there being no adult in the room.

 

I still think we're f**ked if Douglas doesn't work out so, barring a splash move like getting Payton/Harbaugh here, I want to stick with JD at least another year or 2 to see if he can fix things.  He's on the hot seat for me but I know the next GM hire will suck even worse so it makes no sense to fire him unless he really bottoms out in Maccagnan fashion.

But Saleh should be gone yesterday.  

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3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

MLF deserves blame.

Next on the blame list:  Saleh hired his buddy MLF so he deserves even more blame.

Next:  JD hired Saleh so he deserves even more blame than that.  

Finally:  Woody Johnson deserves the most blame for 12 years of incompetence and the constant issue of there being no adult in the room.

 

I still think we're f**ked if Douglas doesn't work out so, barring a splash move like getting Payton/Harbaugh here, I want to stick with JD at least another year or 2 to see if he can fix things.  He's on the hot seat for me but I know the next GM hire will suck even worse so it makes no sense to fire him unless he really bottoms out in Maccagnan fashion.

But Saleh should be gone yesterday.  

I agree with you. 

I would have strongly considered torching this entire coaching staff after the Seattle game and letting Douglas get a head start on picking a new coach (his final coach). I've personally lost all faith in Saleh. He couldn't handle the moment here and collapsed down the stretch as badly as I have ever seen. Having said that, I also know that big catches like Payton and Harbaugh were never coming here, so I'm not sure if I would have actually pulled the trigger. The Woody issue can't be solved. He's the owner and has no incentive to sell the team. 

Sadly, I think this is trending towards a 7-8 win season next year, no playoffs, and a new GM/HC in 2024. Oh well. 

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1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

I agree with you. 

I would have strongly considered torching this entire coaching staff after the Seattle game and letting Douglas get a head start on picking a new coach (his final coach). I've personally lost all faith in Saleh. He couldn't handle the moment here and collapsed down the stretch as badly as I have ever seen. Having said that, I also know that big catches like Payton and Harbaugh were never coming here, so I'm not sure if I would have actually pulled the trigger. The Woody issue can't be solved. He's the owner and has no incentive to sell the team. 

Sadly, I think this is trending towards a 7-8 win season next year, no playoffs, and a new GM/HC in 2024. Oh well. 

Next GM will be another Maccagnan and his HC will be another Peter Principle'd Coordinator in his first stint as a HC.  Book it.

Time is a flat circle.

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Next GM will be another Maccagnan and next HC will be another Peter Principle'd first-time HC.  Book it.

Time is a flat circle.

Guaranteed. Douglas will very likely be the best GM we see in our lifetime. Woody isn't hiring anyone better and he doesn't have the street cred to attract a mega coach like Parcells/Payton/Harbaugh/whoever. 

Our only chance is Douglas having another monster draft and us basically just acquiring too much talent to mess things up next year. Even then, we seem to have the worst injury luck imaginable and the schedule will be brutal. 

Have to land a good QB and upgrade OL and second/third WR to have a chance. 

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41 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

Media forever going out of their way to paint this picture - it gets eaten up every time. Once it hits social media, it's over regardless of whether it's true or false. Hopefully the Jets are just ignoring it and keeping it moving. I think JD and Saleh are

The same thing happened with Darnold. 

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32 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Wilson Becton and Mims had zero shot of ever working in the NFL based off of personality alone. Within the first 10 minutes of speaking to these guys they should have been on the do not draft list. Not exactly sure what Douglas does.

I actually agree with you, and that and the "any idiot should have known it would not work" offensive staff is good reason to throw out JD and Saleh and try and start over.    Woody knows this but does not want to eat too much contract.  

For the Jets, paying Payton 4 x $25mm is not too much money.  The draft picks are too much, because Payton will not have anything to coach with.  Maybe Woody is just waiting for Payton's contract with NOL to expire.  

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5 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Guaranteed. Douglas will very likely be the best GM we see in our lifetime. Woody isn't hiring anyone better and he doesn't have the street cred to attract a mega coach like Parcells/Payton/Harbaugh/whoever. 

This could very well be true despite JD's misjudgments that I and others have listed here.

So, if that is the case, you bring JD into your office and give him an extension.  Tell him to take the long view.  Don't desperately overpay for a QB.  If Saleh does not like it, he can go.  Saleh is in the same spot as MLF was.  The Jets and MLF tore up his third year because MLF knew he had another job paying at least as much and he was dead walking with the Jets.  I don't know if Saleh is willing to give up the last three years of his contract-that is real money-but if he can make lemonades out of lemons next year maybe he can stay through 2024.  Maybe he gets it together.  

But if OCs see that JD is under contract for another 3 years, the usual good OC contract term, that should help attract people, and help JD make the right decisions.  

 

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35 minutes ago, varjet said:

Eric Mangini had an innate sense of what made a good NFL player.  You can't take that away from him.  At least he got a Sopranos appearance out of it. 

Mangini was the one good Coach who got away IMO. He had his flaws and warts, but he was young enough to overcome them.  He setup the Rex run

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1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

Wilson Becton and Mims had zero shot of ever working in the NFL based off of personality alone. Within the first 10 minutes of speaking to these guys they should have been on the do not draft list. Not exactly sure what Douglas does.

C'mon.  Is there anyone on earth that thought Becton was going outside the first or Mims outside the 2nd?  I get that they're mentality might be a drawback, but they both did pretty well under Gase.  I think we are just fitting sh*t into a narrative now.  I can't speak to Wilson because he seemed like a pretty big gamble, but they were all getting drafted whether you think they "had zero shot of ever working in in the NFL based off of personality alone."

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Just now, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Mangini was the one good Coach who got away IMO. He had his flaws and warts, but he was young enough to overcome them.  He setup the Rex run

Good coach that got away?  He was a ******* abomination.  I will concede that, as some here have pointed out, he might have been good at developing the interviews for the prospects, but he was a Mangenius that had a mid level D, that Rex immediately took to 1/1.  **** him.  He was a smarmy douche and his bullsh*t didn't play in Cleveland or anywhere else he flopped after us.

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Just now, #27TheDominator said:

Good coach that got away?  He was a ******* abomination.  I will concede that, as some here have pointed out, he might have been good at developing the interviews for the prospects, but he was a Mangenius that had a mid level D, that Rex immediately took to 1/1.  **** him.  He was a smarmy douche and his bullsh*t didn't play in Cleveland or anywhere else he flopped after us.

I don't feel overly like arguing this, I know the Rex lovers hate Mangini and think it was all Rex, I just disagree. Rex was in the right place at the right time, and made the most of it, but the core he had was built by Mangini, and had the discipline to overcome the lack of discipline Rex had. Mangini probably didnt have the same run Rex had in 09 and 10, but, I think that run would have come at some point and would have been more real and more sustainable.

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7 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I don't feel overly like arguing this, I know the Rex lovers hate Mangini and think it was all Rex, I just disagree. Rex was in the right place at the right time, and made the most of it, but the core he had was built by Mangini, and had the discipline to overcome the lack of discipline Rex had. Mangini probably didnt have the same run Rex had in 09 and 10, but, I think that run would have come at some point and would have been more real and more sustainable.

You don't have to love Rex to dislike Mangini as a coach.  Whether Mangini built the team or not, it is pretty obvious that he wasn't taking them anywhere.  Maybe I am a bit biased because Mangini is the exact type or rah rah run through the wall coach I always hated, without the benefit of being a former player meathead with any credibility.

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29 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

C'mon.  Is there anyone on earth that thought Becton was going outside the first or Mims outside the 2nd?  I get that they're mentality might be a drawback, but they both did pretty well under Gase.  I think we are just fitting sh*t into a narrative now.  I can't speak to Wilson because he seemed like a pretty big gamble, but they were all getting drafted whether you think they "had zero shot of ever working in in the NFL based off of personality alone."

Becton was pulling himself out of every other game as a rookie. Kid had no shot to be a pro lineman. The Jets weren’t in any position to be taking such a risk imo.

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33 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You don't have to love Rex to dislike Mangini as a coach.  Whether Mangini built the team or not, it is pretty obvious that he wasn't taking them anywhere.  Maybe I am a bit biased because Mangini is the exact type or rah rah run through the wall coach I always hated, without the benefit of being a former player meathead with any credibility.

^ALSO HATED PARCELLS/CANNOT BE TRUSTED

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2 hours ago, football guy said:

Criticize the player all you want, hate him for all I care, but this is entirely made up story but Schultz. Not surprising considering he has a reputation for making things up/pushing misleading information... just seeing an opportunity to piggyback and "one up" Rosenblatt's story. 

I get the sense that Zach isn’t currently all that invested in football. He likes it as a career with all the fringe benefits, but doesn’t live for it. LaFleur had the quote about Zach “meeting the coaches halfway” and Kurt Warner saying that it was a good sign Zach reached out, but whether he acts on that advice will be up to him. This team certainly isn’t acting like resurrecting/enabling Zach is their focus at this point, and I can’t help but feel that there’s a lot more behind the scenes that we aren’t seeing, because I haven’t seen a franchise walk away from a high pick like this since Rosen.

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1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

I agree with you. 

I would have strongly considered torching this entire coaching staff after the Seattle game and letting Douglas get a head start on picking a new coach (his final coach). I've personally lost all faith in Saleh. He couldn't handle the moment here and collapsed down the stretch as badly as I have ever seen. Having said that, I also know that big catches like Payton and Harbaugh were never coming here, so I'm not sure if I would have actually pulled the trigger. The Woody issue can't be solved. He's the owner and has no incentive to sell the team. 

Sadly, I think this is trending towards a 7-8 win season next year, no playoffs, and a new GM/HC in 2024. Oh well. 

We could very well be looking back a year from now saying:

”yeah, the Jags game was a clear sign Saleh had already lost the locker room.  Should have moved on then.”

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