There is still no excuse for letting Trevor slip through our hands!!!

[WeCantDraftGoodQBs]

13 hours ago, hokiejetfan92 said:

Here's what I want to know. Tom Brady was the 199th pick in the draft!!! 199!!! And Brock Purdy was the last pick in last years draft. I mean how did we let these guys slip through our hands. We had multiple chances to draft these gems. Please discuss the missed opportunity.

This is why we should never take another QB in the first round with a high pick again because we can’t draft good QB’s based on our history. When you look back through NFL history some of the greatest QB’s weren’t drafted in the 1st round or if they were they were rarely drafted with the 1st or 2nd pick of the draft like we did with Zach.
 

Partial list of Hall of Fame QB’s not selected in the 1st round:

Joe Montana
Dan Marino
Roger Staubach
Craig Morton
Bart Starr
Johnny Unitas
Brett Favre
Ken Stabler
Dan Fouts
John Hadl
Sonny Jurgensen
George Blanca
Warren Moon (undrafted)

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, WeCantDraftGoodQBs said:

This is why we should never take another QB in the first round with a high pick again because we can’t draft good QB’s based on our history. When you look back through NFL history some of the greatest QB’s weren’t drafted in the 1st round or if they were they were rarely drafted with the 1st or 2nd pick of the draft like we did with Zach.
 

Partial list of Hall of Fame QB’s not selected in the 1st round:

Joe Montana
Dan Marino
Roger Staubach
Craig Morton
Bart Starr
Johnny Unitas
Brett Favre
Ken Stabler
Dan Fouts
John Hadl
Sonny Jurgensen
George Blanca
Warren Moon (undrafted)

Marino was drafted in the 1st round.

Kurt Warner (undrafted) belongs on this list.

[FactsOnly]

Lawrence and Zach were the same player last year 

Zach was actually BETTER after he came back from injury 

this year was a FLUKE with DOGWATER COACHING

[FactsOnly]

16 hours ago, SoJetsy said:

I think if Doug Peterson had Zach he would be right where he is now, it’s coaching.

Finally people are seeing the light 

[JetsAddict]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

He hasn't?

He’s been good. He’s not an MVP candidate type yet. 

[TuscanyTile2]

3 minutes ago, JetsAddict said:

He’s been good. He’s not an MVP candidate type yet. 

I think he was a lot better than good.  I also think he'll be one of the favorites (by Vegas odds) heading into 2023-24 to be league MVP. 

[Warfish]

He didn't slip through our hands.  

He was never ours to start with.

Players will never tank the way fans want them to just to get a better pick.

And Organizations can only go so far when trying to tank.

These threads are dumb.

[Zerovoltz]

30 minutes ago, FactsOnly said:

Finally people are seeing the light 

No.  Zach Wilson sucks.  Maybe he sucks less with better coaching but he sucks.

Lawrence on the other hand, had to spend a year with Urban Meyer.  Now, it's hard to say how much being a rookie and new had to do with the Jags struggles last year and it's hard to say how much Pederson has made a differnece of it it's just a really good prospect, growing into what he was projected to be....but it is a fact Lawrence has improved with Pederson at the helm.

[kevinc855]

When will people realize “tanking” Isn’t real and it be a crime if actually committed. Players don’t “throw games” 

This isn’t the 1920s with Al Capone fixing games. Athletes play to win

Just stop 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

17 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Would have failed under MLF so why wring your hands about it?  The Jets would still be home right now.  

I do think hes a better QB than ZW, but this. He was looking like every bit the bust as ZW last year until Pederson came in and worked with him

[TuscanyTile2]

18 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

When will people realize “tanking” Isn’t real and it be a crime if actually committed. Players don’t “throw games” 

This isn’t the 1920s with Al Capone fixing games. Athletes play to win

Just stop 

Uhm, yes it is.  Jax benched Minshew for Glennon in 2020.  Doug Pederson put in Nate Sudfeld in the 4th quarter against Washington.  Neither team got penalized for this, btw.  And both are in the playoffs this year.  And Jax is now set for a long time.

 

https://sportsnaut.com/jaguars-news-tanking-mike-glennon/

 

https://www.nj.com/eagles/2021/01/that-was-a-mockery-espns-dan-orlovsky-rips-eagles-apparent-tank-job-vs-washington.html

 

[jgb]

55 minutes ago, FactsOnly said:

Finally people are seeing the light 

Yeah unfortunately it’s the landing lights of the UFO come to take you away to never never land

[BRONX DUDE]

7 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Uhm, yes it is.  Jax benched Minshew for Glennon in 2020.  Doug Pederson put in Nate Sudfeld in the 4th quarter against Washington.  Neither team got penalized for this, btw.  And both are in the playoffs this year.  And Jax is now set for a long time.

 

https://sportsnaut.com/jaguars-news-tanking-mike-glennon/

 

https://www.nj.com/eagles/2021/01/that-was-a-mockery-espns-dan-orlovsky-rips-eagles-apparent-tank-job-vs-washington.html

 

I will always HATE GASE !!!

 

[Anthony Jet]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Is it actually a narrative that the NFL wanted Mahomes in KC?  I don't think I've ever heard it.  And I agree that it would make no sense.  Although I think this whole "NY Media Market" thing is overblown at this point.  It might've been true at some point (decades ago) but we live in a highly connected world.  Baker Mayfield was a TV star in Cleveland.  Peyton Manning was in Indy too.

I can't remember the last big-name player who "just had to come to NY".  Maybe in the NHL (a couple of guys have come to the Rangers for under their value due to growing up NYR fans) or for the Yankees (due to the prestige) but I can't think of any who came for marketing opportunities.

When’s the last time the NFL had a marketable super star??? Eli, kinda, not really. I doubt we will ever see it but if the Jets or Giants ever have a player of PM , Peyton Manning or someone of that equivalent you will see the difference 

[kevinc855]

21 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Uhm, yes it is.  Jax benched Minshew for Glennon in 2020.  Doug Pederson put in Nate Sudfeld in the 4th quarter against Washington.  Neither team got penalized for this, btw.  And both are in the playoffs this year.  And Jax is now set for a long time.

 

https://sportsnaut.com/jaguars-news-tanking-mike-glennon/

 

https://www.nj.com/eagles/2021/01/that-was-a-mockery-espns-dan-orlovsky-rips-eagles-apparent-tank-job-vs-washington.html

 

Pederson wasn’t the coach and Glennon was way more relible than a nobody back then called Minshew. Doug marrone knew he was getting canned and went all to win

at Least fact check your stuff first 

[Anthony Jet]

1 minute ago, kevinc855 said:

Pederson wasn’t the coach and Glennon was way more relible than a nobody back then called Minshew. Doug marrone knew he was getting canned and went all to win

at Least fact check your stuff first 

Think he meant when DP was with eagles. But yea tanking is a fan thing. Everyone forgets we had raiders game won. Blew it last second. Game saving tackle by a punter is definitely managements fault 

[Hal N of Provo]

14 hours ago, Warfish said:

The current Zach Truther view, eh?

Hi I’m new around here.  Nice to meet you Mr Warfish 

[jgb]

1 hour ago, WeCantDraftGoodQBs said:

This is why we should never take another QB in the first round with a high pick again because we can’t draft good QB’s based on our history. When you look back through NFL history some of the greatest QB’s weren’t drafted in the 1st round or if they were they were rarely drafted with the 1st or 2nd pick of the draft like we did with Zach.

The “if you can’t build it, buy it” approach. Fact is most team that achieve sustainable success do it with drafted QBs so you have to keep taking those shots. HOWEVER, those shots needs to be hedged against failure by not stacking the shelves behind him with dented and expired cans. Until you know you have The Guy, bring in FAs or trade targets with upside. Could’ve had Tannehill after Darnold’s first year for a very reasonable price or Minshew last off season, as two recent examples.

[bostonmajet]

LOL - first, you don't tank games. If the Jets tanked to get him we all know that Goodel and the NFL would have stepped in and smacked us. Secondly, Trevor looked worse than Zack up to halfway through this year - this CS and the fans would have pinched him way before he turned it around. Finally, while there are still questions about ZW's future, I am totally convinced had Trevor played behind this OL and for this CS he would have sucked as much as ZW.

It is easy to through bust around. It is easy to say that good QBs will be good and busts will be busts, but it is not that clean cut. Football, more than any other sport is a team sport. While the QB is the most important position, a QB needs proper coaching, OL protection, weapons, and most importantly a CS that can adjust the offense around the strengths and weaknesses of the QB. You only need to look at Tebow at Denver that one year and Lamar Jackson to know this. Had either of these QBs played for an inexperienced and inflexible OC/HC they would have not likely succeeded.

[undertow]

17 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

The knock on Mahomes was that Texas Tech offensive players were always a crapshoot because of that quirky offense. You had guys like Jace Amaro who are freaks in production and athleticism but then when it's time to make the pro transition they simply can't adjust. The list of Texas Tech guys that can't cut it or don't even get drafted after killing it in college is incredibly longer than the list of guys who do. It was a crapshoot to tell if Mahomas was another Graham Harrell or something legit until workouts started. If the Jets were going to take a QB there the clear pick would have been Watson, which in hindsight is probably a good thing the Jets didn't take him.

It's also revisonist history pretending people had Mahomas going top 10...everyone was surprised at the time KC traded up to get him.  

[Lith]

Everyone seems to ignore the fact that we beat the Browns the week after the Rams game.  We played a Browns team that was without its top 4 or 5 WRs due to Covid.  And was also missing 2 starting OLs.  Marvin Hall, Khadarel Hodge and Ja'Marcus Bradley were their top 3 WRs.  Jedrick Wills and Wyatt Teller were out with injuries.  We were not losing that game.

Even if we had lost to the Rams, we would have finished 1-15 and still lost the tie-break to Jacksonville for #1 overall.  The football gods made certain that it would not happen for the Jets.

[Lith]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

The “if you can’t build it, buy it” approach. Fact is most team that achieve sustainable success do it with drafted QBs so you have to keep taking those shots. HOWEVER, those shots needs to be hedged against failure by not stacking the shelves behind him with dented and expired cans. Until you know you have The Guy, bring in FAs or trade targets with upside. Could’ve had Tannehill after Darnold’s first year for a very reasonable price or Minshew last off season, as two recent examples.

Yup.  As bad a pick as Wilson was, it was probably just as egregious to start his rookie training camp where the only other QBs on the roster were James Morgan and Mike White.  Our QB room going into 2021 had thrown as many passes in NFL regular season games as you and I.  They added Josh Johnson during training camp.  His most recent game action had come in the XFL and Alliance of American Football. 

Every QB room needs at least a competent, experienced vet that you know can give you a baseline of competent NFL play.  You are not likely to find a top 10 QB in free agency, but there are probably a dozen guys out there who are better than what we have had the last two seasons, who could play competent football while we continue our search for the next Mahomes/Allen/Burrow.

[jgb]

21 minutes ago, Lith said:

The football gods made certain that it would not happen for the Jets.

Ain’t it the truth. Never quite good enough to go all the way and never quite bad enough to land the franchise-saving QB.

[TuscanyTile2]

48 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Pederson wasn’t the coach and Glennon was way more relible than a nobody back then called Minshew. Doug marrone knew he was getting canned and went all to win

at Least fact check your stuff first 

Doug Pederson (not Doug Marrone) was the Eagles' coach.

 

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2021/01/eagles-doug-pederson-ripped-for-tanking

[WeCantDraftGoodQBs]

On 1/22/2023 at 9:49 AM, TuscanyTile2 said:

Marino was drafted in the 1st round.

Kurt Warner (undrafted) belongs on this list.

My mistake, Marino was selected with the 2nd to last pick (27) in the first round back when they were only 28 teams.
 

But that still leaves 12 of 13 HOF QB’s I listed, plus with my omission of Kurt Warner (the most recent addition to the HOF of QB’s), it brings the list back to 13 which is a lot of HOF QB’s not selected in the 1st round. There are also a lot of very good QB’s who were not selected in the 1st round who did not get into the HOF.

[WeCantDraftGoodQBs]

4 hours ago, jgb said:

The “if you can’t build it, buy it” approach. Fact is most team that achieve sustainable success do it with drafted QBs so you have to keep taking those shots. HOWEVER, those shots needs to be hedged against failure by not stacking the shelves behind him with dented and expired cans. Until you know you have The Guy, bring in FAs or trade targets with upside. Could’ve had Tannehill after Darnold’s first year for a very reasonable price or Minshew last off season, as two recent examples.

I agree but my main point is we don’t have to only draft our QB’s in the first round because we have done that the last 3 times with very little success.

[Jetsfan80]

22 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Would have failed under MLF so why wring your hands about it?  The Jets would still be home right now.  

  

22 hours ago, SoJetsy said:

I think if Doug Peterson had Zach he would be right where he is now, it’s coaching.

 

lol.  Keep telling yourselves that.

[Jetsfan80]

17 hours ago, Anthony Jet said:

There’s a lot of dumb ideas that float around this board, the idea that jets let TL slip though there fingers might be the worst

....But they did though.  A midseason firing of Gase was basically all it would have taken.  Instruct the interim coach to play the players you want him to play and lose 2 games.  That's it.  

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, bostonmajet said:

LOL - first, you don't tank games. If the Jets tanked to get him we all know that Goodel and the NFL would have stepped in and smacked us.

A year or 2 after the fact, maybe.  We'd still have Lawrence.  

The NFL really doesn't care that much about tanking.  They know it happens.  They just don't want the public to know it happens.

[GangGreened]

5 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Pederson wasn’t the coach and Glennon was way more relible than a nobody back then called Minshew. Doug marrone knew he was getting canned and went all to win

at Least fact check your stuff first 

That was post “Minshew mania” Glennon was not the better option. It was a tank job.

[bostonmajet]

15 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

A year or 2 after the fact, maybe.  We'd still have Lawrence.  

The NFL really doesn't care that much about tanking.  They know it happens.  They just don't want the public to know it happens.

we wouldn't have him if they took our #1 - and if you don't think the NFL would love to do that to the Jets....

[Claymation]

MiLF would have ruined him. 

[GangGreened]

49 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

we wouldn't have him if they took our #1 - and if you don't think the NFL would love to do that to the Jets....

It would never happen. All “tanking” is in the NFL is sitting some key/“dinged up” players in the last few weeks of the season. The NFL would have never taken the pick. I actually think they would have loved Lawrence in NY.

[Bugg]

22 hours ago, Warfish said:

He didn't slip through our hands.  

He was never ours to start with.

Players will never tank the way fans want them to just to get a better pick.

And Organizations can only go so far when trying to tank.

These threads are dumb.

Bengals benched Andy Dalton  and acitivated the PS en masse when Burrow was on the horizon. 

The players themselves will never tank. But management can decide who plays and who doesn't. 

[greasyt]

You are 0-13 in what is an absolute abomination of a season.  You wasted the #3 overall pick (which you gave up a lot of capital to obtain) 2 years prior.  Upper management/Ownership must intervene and give direct orders to secure the #1 pick at that point. Especially with a prospect like Trevor.  The organization has been quarterback starved for half a century.................you just need to endure three, short weeks of losing and he's yours.  The Jags did it that year, as the Colts did it in '12.